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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:28 am 
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CM11 wrote:
Blackrock Bullet wrote:
He came out with them weeks ago. :|


Quote:
“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,”


Tegnell said this weeks ago? So why have you been defending their approach when even the guy in charge of it realises it was wrong?

Are you sure you're not confusing him with the former head?


With a mea culpa, yes. He stated weeks ago they failed in care homes, which is what they were trying to protect.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

If you read on, he says he is talking about the timing of the measures and additional targeted ones, for example Sweden only banned care homes visits on March 31st. He is not advocating a lockdown.

Quote:
But Tegnell said it was still not clear what Sweden should have done differently, whether it should have introduced different measures or introduced them all at the same time rather than in incremental steps.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/02/prof-lockdown-neil-ferguson-admits-sweden-used-science-uk-has/

The point on social distancing is that it did reduce transmission to other lockdown country levels. This was replicated in Ireland where our own modelling showed that R had dropped below 1 before the full lockdown.

Any excess deaths is not the result you want, so therefore you look to learn from that. I think some people are looking for the perfect approach which is just not possible.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
Blackrock Bullet wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
I'll give you One Tree Hill, but I cannot fathom how anyone could find Gossip Girl enjoyable to watch. I genuinely think that is the worst show I've been exposed to, and that includes Pretty Little Liars and 90210 (the new one).

I hate it so much that I cannot stand Blake Lively in anything, no matter how good a big she might do.


Gossip Girl is nowhere near The O.C. for characters but has a certain something to it. OTH went on too long.

Blake Lively’s performance as a Charlestown, Boston piece of white trash in The Town is actually criminally underrated. Very accurate.

Yeah the whole time jump and replacing of half the cast is a bit of a clue that the show had run out of ideas and jumped the shark.
I had no idea that Lively was in The Town, wasn't aware of her as an actress when that came out. That was good. I'm incapable of watching anything of hers objectively since seeing bits of GG.


I liked the idea of the jump originally, as those shows just lose the plot at the college stage generally, but in truth you just lose the magic either way. :((


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:34 am 
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Mr Tegnel is clearly under pressure.

You should slowly ease back on the full throated support.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:35 am 
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I doubt being a CMO anywhere right now is stress free. :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:38 am 
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Whatever happens their names are going to be mud in about 3 months time


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:40 am 
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The past three pages just turned in to mumsnet

Gossip girl ffs


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:43 am 
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Blackrock Bullet wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Blackrock Bullet wrote:
He came out with them weeks ago. :|


Quote:
“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,”


Tegnell said this weeks ago? So why have you been defending their approach when even the guy in charge of it realises it was wrong?

Are you sure you're not confusing him with the former head?


With a mea culpa, yes. He stated weeks ago they failed in care homes, which is what they were trying to protect.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

If you read on, he says he is talking about the timing of the measures and additional targeted ones, for example Sweden only banned care homes visits on March 31st. He is not advocating a lockdown.

Quote:
But Tegnell said it was still not clear what Sweden should have done differently, whether it should have introduced different measures or introduced them all at the same time rather than in incremental steps.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/02/prof-lockdown-neil-ferguson-admits-sweden-used-science-uk-has/

The point on social distancing is that it did reduce transmission to other lockdown country levels. This was replicated in Ireland where our own modelling showed that R had dropped below 1 before the full lockdown.

Any excess deaths is not the result you want, so therefore you look to learn from that. I think some people are looking for the perfect approach which is just not possible.


If the UK had a day like Sweden yesterday, they'd have announced 5,000 new cases. The last day the UK announced over 5k was May 7th.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:47 am 
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So the man who came up with the Swedish plan says he was wrong, but according to BB he is not wrong?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:49 am 
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Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
So the man who came up with the Swedish plan says he was wrong, but according to BB he is not wrong?


Well, he's wrong about being wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:49 am 
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EverReady wrote:
Whatever happens their names are going to be mud in about 3 months time

Depends who defines the narrative.

If the Dáil committee does, then there will be a concerted effort to calumnise what Ireland did - rightly or wrongly.

If they opt for a tribunal or commission of inquiry, I suspect they'd be grand as things will be examined as understood at the time.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:53 am 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Whatever happens their names are going to be mud in about 3 months time

Depends who defines the narrative.

If the Dáil committee does, then there will be a concerted effort to calumnise what Ireland did - rightly or wrongly.

If they opt for a tribunal or commission of inquiry, I suspect they'd be grand as things will be examined as understood at the time.


It'll be committee driven and we will be economically on our knees so public fervour will lead to public health getting a kicking. You can take that to the wank


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:54 am 
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CM11 wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
So the man who came up with the Swedish plan says he was wrong, but according to BB he is not wrong?


Well, he's wrong about being wrong.

The death count is interesting

Sweden: 4468
Denmark: 580
Norway: 237

Denmark and Norway have roughly half Sweden's population so say 1160/474 deaths

Ridiculous to suggest Sweden have it right - but "deaths aren't soaring bro"


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:56 am 
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Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
So the man who came up with the Swedish plan says he was wrong, but according to BB he is not wrong?


Well, he's wrong about being wrong.

The death count is interesting

Sweden: 4468
Denmark: 580
Norway: 237

Denmark and Norway have roughly half Sweden's population so say 1160/474 deaths

Ridiculous to suggest Sweden have it right - but "deaths aren't soaring bro"


They're not soaring because they're not actually doing nothing.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:58 am 
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anonymous_joe wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Whatever happens their names are going to be mud in about 3 months time

Depends who defines the narrative.

If the Dáil committee does, then there will be a concerted effort to calumnise what Ireland did - rightly or wrongly.

If they opt for a tribunal or commission of inquiry, I suspect they'd be grand as things will be examined as understood at the time.

The Dáil committee may well try to, but the evidence will be out there that the much maligned HSE generally dealt with the pandemic pretty well; and people themselves know that. Cheap point scoring against the health services generally, or even the caretaker government will be seen to be exactly that by all but the deranged twitterati - and nothing would satisfy them anyway.

It seems to me that the worm is slowly turning regarding the hate filled political SM in Ireland with the traditional media beginning to build up the courage to call the bile spewing chancers out.


Last edited by camroc1 on Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:00 am 
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CM11 wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
So the man who came up with the Swedish plan says he was wrong, but according to BB he is not wrong?


Well, he's wrong about being wrong.

The death count is interesting

Sweden: 4468
Denmark: 580
Norway: 237

Denmark and Norway have roughly half Sweden's population so say 1160/474 deaths

Ridiculous to suggest Sweden have it right - but "deaths aren't soaring bro"


They're not soaring because they're not actually doing nothing.

Image


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:05 am 
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Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
So the man who came up with the Swedish plan says he was wrong, but according to BB he is not wrong?


Well, he's wrong about being wrong.

The death count is interesting

Sweden: 4468
Denmark: 580
Norway: 237

Denmark and Norway have roughly half Sweden's population so say 1160/474 deaths

Ridiculous to suggest Sweden have it right - but "deaths aren't soaring bro"


They're not soaring because they're not actually doing nothing.

Image


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:11 am 
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There is no right or wrong.

It's a sliding scale of less deaths and more lockdown vs more deaths less lockdown.

It's a similar scale to spending on very expensive drugs for things like cancer. All countries draw the line somewhere. It's a political choice and it's for each country themselves to decide where that line is.

This whole Wright wrong argument is fking pointless, it's where you draw the equilibrium politically and that political line will be different country to country. Some countries simply accept more deaths.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:16 am 
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The sensible approach was to take a break and get your hospital system ready plus track and trace. The issue then became the speed at which everyone could get this ready. We're not even fully there.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:28 am 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:
Can't find the link but the lead guy on the Swedish response has come out with a Mea Culpa.

Found link.

https://t.co/JPXXQX9m6y?amp=1


Quote:
“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” Anders Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish Radio.


A bit like the UK then? That's not going great either.

Sweden backed a plan which isnt necessarily wrong and still might prove to be right in the long run (though it looks less likely as Europe beats the virus back). But going against the grain of their neighbours looks like the piece of information they had and they might regret ignoring.

I think where Sweden will be left behind is when Europe does eventually re-open or partially re-open. Sweden will be a bit of a leper colony


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:31 am 
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nardol wrote:
There is no right or wrong.

It's a sliding scale of less deaths and more lockdown vs more deaths less lockdown.

It's a similar scale to spending on very expensive drugs for things like cancer. All countries draw the line somewhere. It's a political choice and it's for each country themselves to decide where that line is.

This whole Wright wrong argument is fking pointless, it's where you draw the equilibrium politically and that political line will be different country to country. Some countries simply accept more deaths.

No one is denying that
But the claim that Sweden is the WHO's "poster boy" or they are using absolute best model to deal with this is bonkers and the fact that in spite of the evidence BB is still backing them to the hilt is the issue. You can't be anything other than pragmatic in your approach, but "do nothing until there is a vaccine" or "ignore any lockdown" aren't legitimate approaches.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:33 am 
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It's a legitimate approach.

It's on the sliding scale.

As long as domestic populace are OK with it....?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:39 am 
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Hindsight on this matter is really a great thing (and we're not there yet in terms of definitive conclusions). Indoor gatherings seem to be a large source of infection and cutting these out from the start might have been enough along with the other physical distancing measures. With the weather we've had, a lot could have been done for restaurants and pubs but that really is Captain Hindsight territory.

We applied a broad brush because evidence was slim on any particular matter. I think we're better placed now to avoid draconian measures in the future but finding the sweet spot will still be difficult.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:40 am 
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CM11 wrote:
Blackrock Bullet wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Blackrock Bullet wrote:
He came out with them weeks ago. :|


Quote:
“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,”


Tegnell said this weeks ago? So why have you been defending their approach when even the guy in charge of it realises it was wrong?

Are you sure you're not confusing him with the former head?


With a mea culpa, yes. He stated weeks ago they failed in care homes, which is what they were trying to protect.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

If you read on, he says he is talking about the timing of the measures and additional targeted ones, for example Sweden only banned care homes visits on March 31st. He is not advocating a lockdown.

Quote:
But Tegnell said it was still not clear what Sweden should have done differently, whether it should have introduced different measures or introduced them all at the same time rather than in incremental steps.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/02/prof-lockdown-neil-ferguson-admits-sweden-used-science-uk-has/

The point on social distancing is that it did reduce transmission to other lockdown country levels. This was replicated in Ireland where our own modelling showed that R had dropped below 1 before the full lockdown.

Any excess deaths is not the result you want, so therefore you look to learn from that. I think some people are looking for the perfect approach which is just not possible.


If the UK had a day like Sweden yesterday, they'd have announced 5,000 new cases. The last day the UK announced over 5k was May 7th.


Sweden are testing a backlog, no?

Their key stat (ICU) shows a marked decline, real infections have clearly been on the down swing for well over a month.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sweden#Hospitalisations_per_day

I don't think the Swedes are much different to a lot of Europe in their approach now, certainly not to the Danes (who started opening up nearly 2 months ago) so why would they have it and not the rest? Time has moved on. Neil Ferguson in the article above says that he's watching it closely.

What Tegnell is talking about is hindsight. Taking the best from here and there. If we could go back again, what would we change? I think ourselves and the Swedes in particular (they only closed them March 31st) would have locked down care homes a lot earlier than we did (though I understand why we didn't)- restricting care homes is a tough restriction. The Norweigans have said they wouldn't have closed their schools and they panicked (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/30/coronavirus-norway-wonders-should-have-like-sweden/). The Danes locked down quickly, but then opened up quickly, reacting to the evidence.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:41 am 
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Boxcar Ira wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
Can't find the link but the lead guy on the Swedish response has come out with a Mea Culpa.

Found link.

https://t.co/JPXXQX9m6y?amp=1


Quote:
“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” Anders Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish Radio.


A bit like the UK then? That's not going great either.

Sweden backed a plan which isnt necessarily wrong and still might prove to be right in the long run (though it looks less likely as Europe beats the virus back). But going against the grain of their neighbours looks like the piece of information they had and they might regret ignoring.

I think where Sweden will be left behind is when Europe does eventually re-open or partially re-open. Sweden will be a bit of a leper colony

Not just the Swedes. I think the UK are opening up far too quickly and risk the virus taking off again. They are likely to also become international pariahs. Where that leaves us with our CTA with the UK is anyones guess.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:43 am 
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Cammy are you retired?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:43 am 
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nardol wrote:
It's a legitimate approach.

It's on the sliding scale.

As long as domestic populace are OK with it....?


Yeah I dont disagree with that. It's one way of tackling it.

But maybe they should have taken the approach of pretty much the entire rest of the Western world. It's all well and good if they keep their bars and hairdressers functioning. If they cant export Volvos because the rest of Europe is broke then they become broke and their efforts will be in vein. It's a global crisis. Protecting your internal economy is worthless in the long run.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:43 am 
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CM11 wrote:
Hindsight on this matter is really a great thing (and we're not there yet in terms of definitive conclusions). Indoor gatherings seem to be a large source of infection and cutting these out from the start might have been enough along with the other physical distancing measures. With the weather we've had, a lot could have been done for restaurants and pubs but that really is Captain Hindsight territory.

We applied a broad brush because evidence was slim on any particular matter. I think we're better placed now to avoid draconian measures in the future but finding the sweet spot will still be difficult.


It has always been said that this was in hindsight, but you react.

I have always said I agreed with the broad brush at the time because we didn't understand the thing and were fearful on our health service.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:45 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Whatever happens their names are going to be mud in about 3 months time

Depends who defines the narrative.

If the Dáil committee does, then there will be a concerted effort to calumnise what Ireland did - rightly or wrongly.

If they opt for a tribunal or commission of inquiry, I suspect they'd be grand as things will be examined as understood at the time.

The Dáil committee may well try to, but the evidence will be out there that the much maligned HSE generally dealt with the pandemic pretty well; and people themselves know that. Cheap point scoring against the health services generally, or even the caretaker government will be seen to be exactly that by all but the deranged twitterati - and nothing would satisfy them anyway.

It seems to me that the worm is slowly turning regarding the hate filled political SM in Ireland with the traditional media beginning to build up the courage to call the bile spewing chancers out.


It has certainly taken the pricks long enough. I have been home since March, which is my longest stint in Ireland in nearly 10 years and I am pretty disgusted at just how much air time and column inches these lightweight, amoral, twits get.
Having said that though, it is a bloody disgrace that we don't have a functioning government yet so long after an election.... the entire body politic in Ireland is spineless.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:45 am 
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We locked our care homes down way before Sweden and were one of the earliest to do so.

Sweden are still admitting double digits into their ICUs. It's been a bit all over the place on worldometers but it went from 180 to 280 over the course of a couple of days (the tens I mentioned was tracking their official numbers).

Everyone else is showing a suppression to levels where they can control it. Sweden aren't there yet, which may yet bite them hard.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:50 am 
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Blackrock Bullet wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Hindsight on this matter is really a great thing (and we're not there yet in terms of definitive conclusions). Indoor gatherings seem to be a large source of infection and cutting these out from the start might have been enough along with the other physical distancing measures. With the weather we've had, a lot could have been done for restaurants and pubs but that really is Captain Hindsight territory.

We applied a broad brush because evidence was slim on any particular matter. I think we're better placed now to avoid draconian measures in the future but finding the sweet spot will still be difficult.


It has always been said that this was in hindsight, but you react.

I have always said I agreed with the broad brush at the time because we didn't understand the thing and were fearful on our health service.


Yes but even with hindsight you have managed to disagree with the person whose approach you have backed.

It is very clear that we needed to get testing capacity up and the hospital system in place. Hindsight shows our initial approach was correct. The dispute will be when was right to release the valve and how quickly.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:51 am 
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Boxcar Ira wrote:
nardol wrote:
It's a legitimate approach.

It's on the sliding scale.

As long as domestic populace are OK with it....?


Yeah I dont disagree with that. It's one way of tackling it.

But maybe they should have taken the approach of pretty much the entire rest of the Western world. It's all well and good if they keep their bars and hairdressers functioning. If they cant export Volvos because the rest of Europe is broke then they become broke and their efforts will be in vein. It's a global crisis. Protecting your internal economy is worthless in the long run.


We'll see how popular it is when the rest of Europe is back in the med for holliers and they're treated like leppers


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:53 am 
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The Sun God wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Whatever happens their names are going to be mud in about 3 months time

Depends who defines the narrative.

If the Dáil committee does, then there will be a concerted effort to calumnise what Ireland did - rightly or wrongly.

If they opt for a tribunal or commission of inquiry, I suspect they'd be grand as things will be examined as understood at the time.

The Dáil committee may well try to, but the evidence will be out there that the much maligned HSE generally dealt with the pandemic pretty well; and people themselves know that. Cheap point scoring against the health services generally, or even the caretaker government will be seen to be exactly that by all but the deranged twitterati - and nothing would satisfy them anyway.

It seems to me that the worm is slowly turning regarding the hate filled political SM in Ireland with the traditional media beginning to build up the courage to call the bile spewing chancers out.


It has certainly taken the pricks long enough. I have been home since March, which is my longest stint in Ireland in nearly 10 years and I am pretty disgusted at just how much air time and column inches these lightweight, amoral, twits get.
Having said that though, it is a bloody disgrace that we don't have a functioning government yet so long after an election.... the entire body politic in Ireland is spineless.


That is a fantasy playing out in Cams head. Fact is we are currently at something like 25% unemployment. I optimistically thought we might get back to 12-15% in 3 months. That is way too optimistic as it stands. The economy is going to be in ruins rather than the straight up shit show I had thought. People are sleep walking into this for weeks and it really astonishes me. What will happen is we will die on our arse and the Shinners and Trots will clean up. To Monaco and prepare the carport for me to sleep in


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:54 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
Boxcar Ira wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
Can't find the link but the lead guy on the Swedish response has come out with a Mea Culpa.

Found link.

https://t.co/JPXXQX9m6y?amp=1


Quote:
“If we were to encounter the same illness with the same knowledge that we have today, I think our response would land somewhere in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done,” Anders Tegnell said in an interview with Swedish Radio.


A bit like the UK then? That's not going great either.

Sweden backed a plan which isnt necessarily wrong and still might prove to be right in the long run (though it looks less likely as Europe beats the virus back). But going against the grain of their neighbours looks like the piece of information they had and they might regret ignoring.

I think where Sweden will be left behind is when Europe does eventually re-open or partially re-open. Sweden will be a bit of a leper colony

Not just the Swedes. I think the UK are opening up far too quickly and risk the virus taking off again. They are likely to also become international pariahs. Where that leaves us with our CTA with the UK is anyones guess.


No one knows how that will go for the UK but they will have the virus for a lot longer than the rest of Europe it seems. I credit the Swedes in that they backed an approach and stuck with it. Boris has just flip-flopped and half-arsed his way through it.

It's why it makes me uncomfortable when non-experts want to accelerate or "react" to changing situations with very little info. We have a plan, stick with it, back it. It's devised by experts who have done a decent job so far (not perfect obviously). If we see it through, a few more weeks of pain will see better results in the long run.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:54 am 
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The Sun God wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Whatever happens their names are going to be mud in about 3 months time

Depends who defines the narrative.

If the Dáil committee does, then there will be a concerted effort to calumnise what Ireland did - rightly or wrongly.

If they opt for a tribunal or commission of inquiry, I suspect they'd be grand as things will be examined as understood at the time.

The Dáil committee may well try to, but the evidence will be out there that the much maligned HSE generally dealt with the pandemic pretty well; and people themselves know that. Cheap point scoring against the health services generally, or even the caretaker government will be seen to be exactly that by all but the deranged twitterati - and nothing would satisfy them anyway.

It seems to me that the worm is slowly turning regarding the hate filled political SM in Ireland with the traditional media beginning to build up the courage to call the bile spewing chancers out.


It has certainly taken the pricks long enough. I have been home since March, which is my longest stint in Ireland in nearly 10 years and I am pretty disgusted at just how much air time and column inches these lightweight, amoral, twits get.
Having said that though, it is a bloody disgrace that we don't have a functioning government yet so long after an election.... the entire body politic in Ireland is spineless.


Not spineless. Unfortunately going through a transformation at the wrong time. Historically it was FF v FG plus side actors (bit disingenuous to Labour but simplifies discussion). That mindset is still there in the grassroots but not in the voting public who have polarised to the extent that I can't see a return. It'll take another election cycle or two before it's the new order.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:58 am 
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Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
nardol wrote:
There is no right or wrong.

It's a sliding scale of less deaths and more lockdown vs more deaths less lockdown.

It's a similar scale to spending on very expensive drugs for things like cancer. All countries draw the line somewhere. It's a political choice and it's for each country themselves to decide where that line is.

This whole Wright wrong argument is fking pointless, it's where you draw the equilibrium politically and that political line will be different country to country. Some countries simply accept more deaths.

No one is denying that
But the claim that Sweden is the WHO's "poster boy" or they are using absolute best model to deal with this is bonkers and the fact that in spite of the evidence BB is still backing them to the hilt is the issue. You can't be anything other than pragmatic in your approach, but "do nothing until there is a vaccine" or "ignore any lockdown" aren't legitimate approaches.


Why do you keep saying "backing to the hilt"?

It's been said over and over that they completely failed in care homes. I have also said that I did not understand their reticence to tracking and tracing, which worked so well in South Korea. I can understand it to a point where you have uncontrolled community transmission and you are focusing efforts elsewhere, but as a monitoring and controlling mechanism it would appear to be logical to try and have a good system in place.

I am still looking at the evidence we have. Our R rate dropped below 1 before a hard lockdown. Sweden controlled transmission, as the backer of the lockdown Dr Ferguson says himself. There is a lot of evidence from all over Europe that voluntary social distancing and gentle government policies achieved this.

I said I didn't back their approach in March from a risk perspective, but that the evidence had changed.

Statto hates being "definitive", but from the evidence we have and the reactions of other countries and if we could have a doover we'd;

- not tried to be South Korea overnight with testing and spreading resources too thin
- focus the vast majority of the limited resources of the time on care home testing
- complete State takeover of care homes and movement of resources to them
- have not closed schools for children up to 16
- encourage remote working where possible
- not close pubs and bars, but keep numbers restricted. Government supports to close down streets outside to allow more outdoor seating
- not closed retail outlets

And quite a few others, just based on what we have learned about it.

This is hindsight completely, but it doesn't mean it doesn't inform our decisions right now.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:58 am 
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EverReady wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Whatever happens their names are going to be mud in about 3 months time

Depends who defines the narrative.

If the Dáil committee does, then there will be a concerted effort to calumnise what Ireland did - rightly or wrongly.

If they opt for a tribunal or commission of inquiry, I suspect they'd be grand as things will be examined as understood at the time.

The Dáil committee may well try to, but the evidence will be out there that the much maligned HSE generally dealt with the pandemic pretty well; and people themselves know that. Cheap point scoring against the health services generally, or even the caretaker government will be seen to be exactly that by all but the deranged twitterati - and nothing would satisfy them anyway.

It seems to me that the worm is slowly turning regarding the hate filled political SM in Ireland with the traditional media beginning to build up the courage to call the bile spewing chancers out.


It has certainly taken the pricks long enough. I have been home since March, which is my longest stint in Ireland in nearly 10 years and I am pretty disgusted at just how much air time and column inches these lightweight, amoral, twits get.
Having said that though, it is a bloody disgrace that we don't have a functioning government yet so long after an election.... the entire body politic in Ireland is spineless.


That is a fantasy playing out in Cams head. Fact is we are currently at something like 25% unemployment. I optimistically thought we might get back to 12-15% in 3 months. That is way too optimistic as it stands. The economy is going to be in ruins rather than the straight up shit show I had thought. People are sleep walking into this for weeks and it really astonishes me. What will happen is we will die on our arse and the Shinners and Trots will clean up. To Monaco and prepare the carport for me to sleep in


Oh I am sure we could stretch to the guest lodge.....or the Gite. :P


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:01 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
The Sun God wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Whatever happens their names are going to be mud in about 3 months time

Depends who defines the narrative.

If the Dáil committee does, then there will be a concerted effort to calumnise what Ireland did - rightly or wrongly.

If they opt for a tribunal or commission of inquiry, I suspect they'd be grand as things will be examined as understood at the time.

The Dáil committee may well try to, but the evidence will be out there that the much maligned HSE generally dealt with the pandemic pretty well; and people themselves know that. Cheap point scoring against the health services generally, or even the caretaker government will be seen to be exactly that by all but the deranged twitterati - and nothing would satisfy them anyway.

It seems to me that the worm is slowly turning regarding the hate filled political SM in Ireland with the traditional media beginning to build up the courage to call the bile spewing chancers out.


It has certainly taken the pricks long enough. I have been home since March, which is my longest stint in Ireland in nearly 10 years and I am pretty disgusted at just how much air time and column inches these lightweight, amoral, twits get.
Having said that though, it is a bloody disgrace that we don't have a functioning government yet so long after an election.... the entire body politic in Ireland is spineless.


Not spineless. Unfortunately going through a transformation at the wrong time. Historically it was FF v FG plus side actors (bit disingenuous to Labour but simplifies discussion). That mindset is still there in the grassroots but not in the voting public who have polarised to the extent that I can't see a return. It'll take another election cycle or two before it's the new order.


We don't have an election cycle or two though do we ?. Our economy is now on its arse and might just get back to its knees by year end, if we open up next week. Failing that we are in big trouble.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:01 pm 
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I'll take it all and promise to only bring the non annoying kids


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:03 pm 
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EverReady wrote:
I'll take it all and promise to only bring the non annoying kids


:lol: :lol: So it will just be yourself and the wife then ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:06 pm 
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TSG, I'm not saying a government shouldn't have been formed, I'm just saying it's not because they're spineless.


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