Planet Rugby Forum

paddyor wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:19 pm

CM11 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:40 pm

paddyor wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:35 pm

CM11 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:37 pm

Anyway, here it is:

https://www.newstalk.com/news/one-coupl ... es-1083963

I call BS.

Why?

Here's the IT article with other examples

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ ... -1.4368824

They've started to ask more questions, finally, so can start linking cases.

Can you post the IT article please. The newstalk one is like something Kitty Holland would write.

Love to go on a trip away and return to a house party while staying with a family.

Gavin Duffy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:07 pm Has CM11 suffered massive head trauma recently?

Botha Boy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:56 am

rfurlong wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:27 pm Can any of the "NPHET are shit" crew, explain to the rest of us, how they intend to stop hospitalizations doubling every fortnight?

There is 4X rise in respiratory illness from Summer to Winter every year.

We are naturally inclined to PCR test everyone this year with a cough or fever symptom.While only 3% are coming back as positive, as the False Positive Rate is comparatively high at 0.8 to 4.0%, then a high proportion of the positive tests are actually false positives, ie no Covid virus present in the sample.

So we need to test every positive test a second time to confirm it as 2 false positives in a row is highly unlikely. This will drop the numbers being diagnosed as Covid cases and avoid the spiralling use case stats NPHET are fixated by. And this will also significantly reduce the reported level of Covid hospitalisations such that we can all go down the pub for a cabal. Simples.

NPHET are shit.

Botha Boy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:56 am

rfurlong wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:27 pm Can any of the "NPHET are shit" crew, explain to the rest of us, how they intend to stop hospitalizations doubling every fortnight?

There is 4X rise in respiratory illness from Summer to Winter every year.

We are naturally inclined to PCR test everyone this year with a cough or fever symptom.While only 3% are coming back as positive, as the False Positive Rate is comparatively high at 0.8 to 4.0%, then a high proportion of the positive tests are actually false positives, ie no Covid virus present in the sample.

So we need to test every positive test a second time to confirm it as 2 false positives in a row is highly unlikely. This will drop the numbers being diagnosed as Covid cases and avoid the spiralling use case stats NPHET are fixated by. And this will also significantly reduce the reported level of Covid hospitalisations such that we can all go down the pub for a cabal. Simples.

NPHET are shit.

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:05 am

Botha Boy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:56 am

rfurlong wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:27 pm Can any of the "NPHET are shit" crew, explain to the rest of us, how they intend to stop hospitalizations doubling every fortnight?

There is 4X rise in respiratory illness from Summer to Winter every year.

We are naturally inclined to PCR test everyone this year with a cough or fever symptom.While only 3% are coming back as positive, as the False Positive Rate is comparatively high at 0.8 to 4.0%, then a high proportion of the positive tests are actually false positives, ie no Covid virus present in the sample.

So we need to test every positive test a second time to confirm it as 2 false positives in a row is highly unlikely. This will drop the numbers being diagnosed as Covid cases and avoid the spiralling use case stats NPHET are fixated by. And this will also significantly reduce the reported level of Covid hospitalisations such that we can all go down the pub for a cabal. Simples.

NPHET are shit.

It’ll rise and plateau as is the case with all infectious diseases. We had the 6 months to get our track and trace up to scratch, we had the 6 months to get out hospital capacity up to scratch. NPHET hitting the panic button when hospital cases are still so low means that they have failed to do what they were supposed to. Lockdowns should be a last resort.

What if it doesn't plateau?

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:11 am

What if it doesn't plateau?

That’s not how viruses behave

rfurlong wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:08 am

Botha Boy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:56 am

rfurlong wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:27 pm Can any of the "NPHET are shit" crew, explain to the rest of us, how they intend to stop hospitalizations doubling every fortnight?

There is 4X rise in respiratory illness from Summer to Winter every year.

We are naturally inclined to PCR test everyone this year with a cough or fever symptom.While only 3% are coming back as positive, as the False Positive Rate is comparatively high at 0.8 to 4.0%, then a high proportion of the positive tests are actually false positives, ie no Covid virus present in the sample.

So we need to test every positive test a second time to confirm it as 2 false positives in a row is highly unlikely. This will drop the numbers being diagnosed as Covid cases and avoid the spiralling use case stats NPHET are fixated by. And this will also significantly reduce the reported level of Covid hospitalisations such that we can all go down the pub for a cabal. Simples.

NPHET are shit.

So you're saying that there are people are being admitted into hospital with covid, who don't actually have covid, or who aren't sick?

This is a new departure ...... and forgive me for saying so, sounds like total nonsense

Not one person on here who has been criticizing the government/NPHET has a remotely credible answer to the question of ongoing hospitalizations ..... which are doubling every two weeks, coming into the winter season

People don't end up in hospitals because of false positives ffs

danthefan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:13 am

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:11 am

What if it doesn't plateau?

That’s not how viruses behave

On what timescale?

Botha Boy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:13 am

rfurlong wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:08 am

Botha Boy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:56 am

rfurlong wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:27 pm Can any of the "NPHET are shit" crew, explain to the rest of us, how they intend to stop hospitalizations doubling every fortnight?

There is 4X rise in respiratory illness from Summer to Winter every year.

We are naturally inclined to PCR test everyone this year with a cough or fever symptom.While only 3% are coming back as positive, as the False Positive Rate is comparatively high at 0.8 to 4.0%, then a high proportion of the positive tests are actually false positives, ie no Covid virus present in the sample.

So we need to test every positive test a second time to confirm it as 2 false positives in a row is highly unlikely. This will drop the numbers being diagnosed as Covid cases and avoid the spiralling use case stats NPHET are fixated by. And this will also significantly reduce the reported level of Covid hospitalisations such that we can all go down the pub for a cabal. Simples.

NPHET are shit.

So you're saying that there are people are being admitted into hospital with covid, who don't actually have covid, or who aren't sick?

This is a new departure ...... and forgive me for saying so, sounds like total nonsense

Not one person on here who has been criticizing the government/NPHET has a remotely credible answer to the question of ongoing hospitalizations ..... which are doubling every two weeks, coming into the winter season

People don't end up in hospitals because of false positives ffs

There are thousands in hospital getting Covid tested and a certain number are guaranteed to be false positives. We do around 13000 tests a day so even a 1% FPR on completely negative samples will return at least 130 positives.

Go read the paper I linked to last night from The Lancet and explain why it is inaccurate.

NPHET is

A) Infallible

B) Shit

You choose ...

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:16 am

danthefan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:13 am

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:11 am

What if it doesn't plateau?

That’s not how viruses behave

On what timescale?

Since we started studying them? I don’t know what you mean by this. You’re an engineer you know what exponential curves look like.

rfurlong wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:23 am

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:16 am

danthefan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:13 am

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:11 am

What if it doesn't plateau?

That’s not how viruses behave

On what timescale?

Since we started studying them? I don’t know what you mean by this. You’re an engineer you know what exponential curves look like.

WHEN does it plateau?

If it plateaus in December and the health service has keeled over in November then we'll have a disaster on our hands

Tell us when ?

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:24 am

rfurlong wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:23 am

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:16 am

danthefan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:13 am

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:11 am

That’s not how viruses behave

On what timescale?

Since we started studying them? I don’t know what you mean by this. You’re an engineer you know what exponential curves look like.

WHEN does it plateau?

If it plateaus in December and the health service has keeled over in November then we'll have a disaster on our hands

Tell us when ?

It’s October now with schools back. We have 120 people on hospital in the entire country. Stop panicking.

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:15 am Sorry furlong bit of a glib reply. Exponential growth is the fear and you know what shape an exponential curve is, you’ve seen it a thousand times. This virus isn’t new anymore. Your arguments were appropriate in March when we feared this would be Spanish flu mark II. It’s not, it’s fairly well characterised now and we know how it spreads and who is vulnerable.

rfurlong wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:35 am

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:15 am Sorry furlong bit of a glib reply. Exponential growth is the fear and you know what shape an exponential curve is, you’ve seen it a thousand times. This virus isn’t new anymore. Your arguments were appropriate in March when we feared this would be Spanish flu mark II. It’s not, it’s fairly well characterised now and we know how it spreads and who is vulnerable.

It doesn't have to go exponential to overwhelm the health service

A steady linear rise, coupled with the amount of time it takes to get a patient out of ICU, is all it takes for our capacity to get used up very quickly

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:45 am

rfurlong wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:35 am

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:15 am Sorry furlong bit of a glib reply. Exponential growth is the fear and you know what shape an exponential curve is, you’ve seen it a thousand times. This virus isn’t new anymore. Your arguments were appropriate in March when we feared this would be Spanish flu mark II. It’s not, it’s fairly well characterised now and we know how it spreads and who is vulnerable.

It doesn't have to go exponential to overwhelm the health service

A steady linear rise, coupled with the amount of time it takes to get a patient out of ICU, is all it takes for our capacity to get used up very quickly

Sorry this is all wrong. Infectious diseases spread exponentially when the R0 is above 1. Linear growth is a set increase with time. Linear growth is easily dealt with and planned for. Linear growth would not justify any panic or restrictions at all. The whole point is the threat of exponential growth.

EverReady wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:57 am On the admitted only if genuinely sick that is not entirely the case. People will be admitted if it is suspected they may get sick e.g. some lad with face AIDS

CM11 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:09 am It's not just ICU. The more covid patients you have in hospital, the harder it is for other functions to work properly

paddyor wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:35 pm

CM11 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:37 pm

Anyway, here it is:

https://www.newstalk.com/news/one-coupl ... es-1083963

I call BS.

rfurlong wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:16 am

CM11 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:09 am It's not just ICU. The more covid patients you have in hospital, the harder it is for other functions to work properly

Exactly

The anti NPHET grouping have no answer to this issue ..... they are in the dark as to the potential effect on the overall system, but are gung ho nonetheless

rfurlong wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:16 am

CM11 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:09 am It's not just ICU. The more covid patients you have in hospital, the harder it is for other functions to work properly

Exactly

The anti NPHET grouping have no answer to this issue ..... they are in the dark as to the potential effect on the overall system, but are gung ho nonetheless

EverReady wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:36 am Here I can be that man. NPHET have been a disaster. Utterly wasted the summer and are now actively destroying the economy aided and abetted by a running scared FF

Duff Paddy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:30 am

rfurlong wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:16 am

CM11 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:09 am It's not just ICU. The more covid patients you have in hospital, the harder it is for other functions to work properly

Exactly

The anti NPHET grouping have no answer to this issue ..... they are in the dark as to the potential effect on the overall system, but are gung ho nonetheless

Stop with this anti NPHET stuff you’re trying to polarise a debate into black and white. We can disagree with some of NPHET’s approaches without being anti NPHET. Similarly, blindly following NPHET, as the government are, is also not ideal as it’s not looking at the bigger picture. It’s like a surgeon being asked to cut out a tumour, if he has to kill the patient to get it all out it’s not exactly a result

rfurlong wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:27 pm Can any of the "NPHET are shit" crew, explain to the rest of us, how they intend to stop hospitalizations doubling every fortnight?

EverReady wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:58 am

Mullet 2 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:53 am "You're trying to polarise the debate"

Its actually a full on Trump discussion now

I'm Kayleigh McFanny

rfurlong wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:50 am There are people on here saying that NPHET are total spoofers and complete villains, who are single handedly destroying the economy while also riding our wives and girlfriends

yet when myself, mullet, stats and a few others call out this bullshit, we're accused of lacking nuance, empathy, intelligence and being hysterical Karen's

lorcanoworms wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:15 am Not going to bother putting them on ignore but there are a few people I am not talking/posting to anymore.
You know who you are.

EverReady wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:24 am Go to work

EverReady wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:36 am

Nolanator wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:35 am

EverReady wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:24 am Go to work

I'm in work. You lot have gone the full Trump, just in time for him to be booted out.

Nah

EverReady wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:39 am His cognition has sufferingered in the last few years while I remain whip smart

But we have to say to public health experts that it can’t be public health only – that we will not have a health service if there is no economy.

Definitely, one thing that we need to look at and be more aware of is the approach around the rest of Europe. We have among the strictest rules in Europe when it comes to Covid but we do not have the highest incidences of Covid by any means.

What we are seeing across Europe, and it is being replicated in Ireland, is a huge increase in the amount of cases, but only a modest increase in the number of people who are in hospital, and also thankfully, the amount of people who are passing away. Any death is regrettable, and our sympathies go to the families affected, but this second wave which is happening across Europe and Ireland is very different.

As we speak now, only 1 per cent of our hospital beds have Covid patients in them and maybe 10 or 15 per cent of ICU. If it got three or four times worse, it would still be only using up a relatively small amount of our health service capacity.

What I see other countries doing – Belgium is the most recent example – is that they are no longer using case numbers to make their decisions on restrictions and on policy. They are looking at hospitalisations, ICU capacity and on deaths. It is a job for us as politicians to say to the public health people that maybe we should be focusing on that. The objective was to make sure our health service did not get overwhelmed, not to lock down the country and the economy until there was no Covid at all. That is not realistic.

Nolanator wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:40 am

EverReady wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:39 am His cognition has sufferingered in the last few years while I remain whip smart

lorcanoworms wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:05 am If we increase hospital capacity including ICU and critical care can we bring in or find more staff here in Ireland?
Or are we just exposing existing staff to more risk.

Be On Call For Ireland: Only 209 workers given role in health service while 1,600 remain in a 'pool'


OF THE 73,000 people who applied for the government’s Be On Call For Ireland campaign to recruit healthcare workers, only 209 of them have been placed into a role in the health service.

Figures from the HSE show that 2,773 people passed an interview and indicated they were available for work since the initiative was launched in March.

Of these, 1,639 people remain available within the “pool” to take up a role in the health service, and a further 720 are “job-ready” after passing the clearance procedure.

Separately, a further 1,975 were recruited across four of the seven hospital groups in Ireland to assist in combating Covid-19.