**OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

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theo
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by theo »

openclashXX wrote:Jack Walker basically confirmed to Bath by the Bath Chronicle

means that the entire front row of last year's JWC-runner up batch, all of whom were signed to Championship clubs at the time, are now in the Premiership (Ellis Genge with Leicester, Jack Walker with Bath and Paul Hill with Northampton)
Good news.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Brazil »

Leicester Mafia wrote:
45jumper wrote:Sam James has signed a new deal at Sale :thumbup:
Presumably only until his inevitable move to Wasps
No, they'll have moved their academy to Coventry in two years and will have the bestest ever stream of English Youth Talent coming through, so they won't need to pinch everyone else's players.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by openclashXX »

Brazil wrote:
Leicester Mafia wrote:
45jumper wrote:Sam James has signed a new deal at Sale :thumbup:
Presumably only until his inevitable move to Wasps
No, they'll have moved their academy to Coventry in two years and will have the bestest ever stream of English Youth Talent coming through, so they won't need to pinch everyone else's players.
you can't just go and steal all of Raggs' lines like that
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by piquant »

pjm1 wrote:
I know there's at least a smidgen of tongue-in-cheek, but that's a perfect description of his (Lancaster's) journey last year. We were all giving him time and benefit of any doubts during the 6N because performances were ok. Not stellar, but there was the RWC to look forward to and even though 2nd wasn't good enough, we did have that final exciting game against France to gird our loins.

Then he - as you say - went off the rails. His selections defied understanding and previous consistency and his gameplan (to the extent there was one) represented an about turn in playing style. His decisions didn't stack up, throwing either those decisions or the prior three years' decisions into question.

Why? How did he get it so wrong? Or was he building up to this inevitable demolition job on the England team? Perhaps he's actually Welsh and he was doing a master "inside job" ;)
Many people were giving him time and the benefit of the doubt. But not all, some of us never wanted him to get the job in the first place, thought that for all he did some good stuff there was plenty of confused thinking , that selections were iffy from his 1st game against Scotland onward, we jumped around in aims without ever sorting some core problems. All that said he's a better coach than botched job of the last few months when going far too conservative, lousing up the conditioning, and being inspired for no sane reason to bring in Burgess. Basically I thought the initial praise too much and unwarranted, and the ending condemnation too much and unwarranted. I don't know where he'll next pop up in rugby, but he would seem to have a decent amount to offer, and I hope he's back in the game rather sooner than Johnson.

Why did it go so wrong I'm not sure, but my take is that people in such roles are desperate to do well, often latch onto the wrong reasons a team is seemingly making progress, and worse in such a weird environment with all the expectations from fans, media and the team around them end up unable to see the wood for the trees, and find themselves in something of a mess. Which actually is in large part the fault of the RFU for hiring someone with no experience of building and developing a team in an elite environment who's had to recover from things going wrong
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Raggs
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Raggs »

openclashXX wrote:
Brazil wrote:
Leicester Mafia wrote:
45jumper wrote:Sam James has signed a new deal at Sale :thumbup:
Presumably only until his inevitable move to Wasps
No, they'll have moved their academy to Coventry in two years and will have the bestest ever stream of English Youth Talent coming through, so they won't need to pinch everyone else's players.
you can't just go and steal all of Raggs' lines like that
Might take a bit more than 2 years. Hoping we nick Williams from Irish when they go down, then we'll not be needing James.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Leicester Mafia »

Irish need to do the decent thing and get relegated so the rest of us can nick their players more easily
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Leicester Mafia wrote:Sale need to do the decent thing and get relegated so the rest of us can nick their players more easily
I agree entirely
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fatcat
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by fatcat »

pjm1 wrote:Looks pretty much the same Ewers in the Chiefs twitter snap earlier in the month:

Image

I can't believe they're allowed to drink Guinness on training days.
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Spell
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Spell »

I've talked about this on the forum before that England players seem to get injured more often than the SH counterparts... Has EJ recognised this as a problem with the mindset of the players?
Yea... More games. Its not rocket science.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by kagamusha »

Raggs wrote:
Leicester Mafia wrote:6. Ewers
7. Hughes
8. Billy

For maximum orc
1. Mako
2. Youngs
3. Brookes
4. Itoje
5. Attwood
6. Ewers
7. Hughes
8. Billy

9/10/11/12/13/14/15 = Best defenders available, scrum half to pass to the next forward coming at speed.
Flawed logic....assumes we have a scrumhalf who can pass and not meercat about....
Last edited by kagamusha on Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
piquant
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by piquant »

Raggs wrote: Might take a bit more than 2 years. Hoping we nick Williams from Irish when they go down, then we'll not be needing James.
If Daly were to return to 15 you could look to bring in both Williams and James at 12 and 13
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plum-pudding
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by plum-pudding »

pjm1 wrote:Looks pretty much the same Ewers in the Chiefs twitter snap earlier in the month:

Image
looks like they've got Slade to bulk up a bit- probably not a bad thing.
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Margin_Walker
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Margin_Walker »

piquant wrote:
Raggs wrote: Might take a bit more than 2 years. Hoping we nick Williams from Irish when they go down, then we'll not be needing James.
If Daly were to return to 15 you could look to bring in both Williams and James at 12 and 13
Confusingly there is another excellent centre named Williams (Matt) coming through at Irish in the year below (named in the England U18 squad today). Primarily plays 13, so leave it a year or two and they could poach them both.
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armchairfan
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by armchairfan »

pjm1 wrote:Looks pretty much the same Ewers in the Chiefs twitter snap earlier in the month:

Image
Should have kept the Hulk version :D ( or is that radiation therepy? :) )
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

piquant wrote:
terryfinch wrote:
Raggs wrote:So seeing as change seems to be coming in one by one, which one of those two would you drop first?

I'd drop Robshaw first, Haskell can run faster and hit harder, but he'll be out as well come the next 6N I suspect.
Hughes will replace one I would guess.
A very different player to the less glamorous work done by Robshaw and Haskell. Though Billy is getting better all the time, and going longer, and Hughes adds a lineout option. I'd still at this point expect it to be Billy Vs Ben Vs Nathan, and I think Billy is the one I'd be going with, but maybe we'll see two of them start, maybe even the third on the bench. If we did have Vunipola and Hughes then the tight five would need to help free them up, and the 7 would need to play a very disciplined game, which is possible.
If Hughes stays healthy I'd expect Eddie to build the backrow around him. Phenomenal player.
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BurrowHill
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by BurrowHill »

Mike Williams is fit and available for selection Vs Irish this weekend. Man the bandwagon!
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Will Tell »

theo wrote:We seem to be flush with big bruising, athletic back rowers (Billy, Itoje, Clifford, Haskell, Beaumont, Morgan, Ewers and Hughes in time maybe). What we need is a ground hog/link man to compliment them.
too true. and there is only one (temporarily) in the squad (who has yet to make the 23). this is puzzling. surely indicates he doesn't rate any of Kvesic, Wallace, Fraser. who is in pipeline? a 19 year old uni student in Cardiff? next month Wales can either start Tips & Warb or bring on the former after Lydiate has dislocated his shoulder in a flying armless chop tackle. from what I've seen Clifford doesn't look like the quick link man you want to bring on if we're chasing the game...

for odd technical reasons I re-watched the pool match with Oz. embarrassing how their back row mullered us.
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blindcider
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by blindcider »

Will Tell wrote:
for odd technical reasons I re-watched the pool match with Oz. embarrassing how their back row mullered us.
Only really true in the first half when England were clearly playing to a stand-off and defend strategy.

Second half when England actually changed this strategy to compete more it was far more even
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plum-pudding
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by plum-pudding »

Will Tell wrote:
theo wrote:We seem to be flush with big bruising, athletic back rowers (Billy, Itoje, Clifford, Haskell, Beaumont, Morgan, Ewers and Hughes in time maybe). What we need is a ground hog/link man to compliment them.
too true. and there is only one (temporarily) in the squad (who has yet to make the 23). this is puzzling. surely indicates he doesn't rate any of Kvesic, Wallace, Fraser. who is in pipeline? a 19 year old uni student in Cardiff? next month Wales can either start Tips & Warb or bring on the former after Lydiate has dislocated his shoulder in a flying armless chop tackle. from what I've seen Clifford doesn't look like the quick link man you want to bring on if we're chasing the game...

for odd technical reasons I re-watched the pool match with Oz. embarrassing how their back row mullered us.
Clifford may not be a ground hog, but quick link man? he can do that no problem.
In the past, the lack of an out and out openside was defended on the grounds of Cole and launch being fairly adept in the turnover department. Having now moved on from Morgan towards Vunipola and probably to Hughes, Itoje most likely taking a place at lock/blindside and having flankers such as Ewers, Underhill, Clifford possibly soon emerging, I'd say England might be better placed than ever in this area to get by without a specialist.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Anonymous 1 »

terryfinch wrote:
Raggs wrote:So seeing as change seems to be coming in one by one, which one of those two would you drop first?

I'd drop Robshaw first, Haskell can run faster and hit harder, but he'll be out as well come the next 6N I suspect.
Hughes will replace one I would guess.
Considering they are starting flankers that would be a bit weird
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by terryfinch »

pjm1 wrote:Looks pretty much the same Ewers in the Chiefs twitter snap earlier in the month:

Image
Why is he green? Hulk?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Will Tell »

blindcider wrote:
Will Tell wrote:
for odd technical reasons I re-watched the pool match with Oz. embarrassing how their back row mullered us.
Only really true in the first half when England were clearly playing to a stand-off and defend strategy.

Second half when England actually changed this strategy to compete more it was far more even
more even (not sure I'd agree with 'far') but still clearly second best. Hooper, having dodged a bullet with his exocet act just before halftime, might've been advised to rein it in a bit...
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Will Tell »

plum-pudding wrote:
Will Tell wrote:
theo wrote:We seem to be flush with big bruising, athletic back rowers (Billy, Itoje, Clifford, Haskell, Beaumont, Morgan, Ewers and Hughes in time maybe). What we need is a ground hog/link man to compliment them.
too true. and there is only one (temporarily) in the squad (who has yet to make the 23). this is puzzling. surely indicates he doesn't rate any of Kvesic, Wallace, Fraser. who is in pipeline? a 19 year old uni student in Cardiff? next month Wales can either start Tips & Warb or bring on the former after Lydiate has dislocated his shoulder in a flying armless chop tackle. from what I've seen Clifford doesn't look like the quick link man you want to bring on if we're chasing the game...

for odd technical reasons I re-watched the pool match with Oz. embarrassing how their back row mullered us.
Clifford may not be a ground hog, but quick link man? he can do that no problem.
In the past, the lack of an out and out openside was defended on the grounds of Cole and launch being fairly adept in the turnover department. Having now moved on from Morgan towards Vunipola and probably to Hughes, Itoje most likely taking a place at lock/blindside and having flankers such as Ewers, Underhill, Clifford possibly soon emerging, I'd say England might be better placed than ever in this area to get by without a specialist.

I don't know. I haven't seen much of Clifford as I don't see much AP, but I think our (England's) back row has been well & truly exposed on several occasions. Personally I don't subscribe to the compensation theory - locks and 1st rowers who can do a job over the ball occasionally. V welcome nice to have but quick scavenging linking 7 seems to be necessity in today's international game, at the top level.

btw, have seen that Clifford was born in Ozland; poach?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Portcullis Irish »

plum-pudding wrote:worth pointing out that Ewers, although having the physique of Vunipola, does have the workrate of a blindside- :( he is probably a bit less mobile than Robshaw, but is obviously a superior ball carrier. He would work with a Hughes/Clifford type backrow.
Poor old Ewers black-balled before he's even back from injury
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by plum-pudding »

Portcullis Irish wrote:
plum-pudding wrote:worth pointing out that Ewers, although having the physique of Vunipola, does have the workrate of a blindside- :( he is probably a bit less mobile than Robshaw, but is obviously a superior ball carrier. He would work with a Hughes/Clifford type backrow.
Poor old Ewers black-balled before he's even back from injury
:lol: at 6'4 125kg I'm not expecting any more in the way of mobility/speed, though he more than compensates for this in strength with or without the ball.

The Mail has Itoje down to start now- they seem to think the Launch hamstring injury is possibly worse than thought?!
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Reverend Green »

Imagine having Dave Ewers and Tom Youngs in the same starting XV together. Be like a Quasimodo tribute match.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by SamShark »

Reverend Green wrote:Imagine having Dave Ewers and Tom Youngs in the same starting XV together. Be like a Quasimodo tribute match.
Toby Flood at 10
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Reverend Green »

SamShark wrote:
Reverend Green wrote:Imagine having Dave Ewers and Tom Youngs in the same starting XV together. Be like a Quasimodo tribute match.
Toby Flood at 10


Leo Cullen - conditioning coach.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Johnny Marrmight »

Reverend Green wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Reverend Green wrote:Imagine having Dave Ewers and Tom Youngs in the same starting XV together. Be like a Quasimodo tribute match.
Toby Flood at 10


Leo Cullen - conditioning coach.
:lol:
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Lawes back in, Launch out with a hamstring injury

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/rbs-na ... ury-squad/
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by plum-pudding »

Daly to make an appearance without any injuries to backs? if so, in what position?
There are now 5 players in the 23 capable of covering full back :lol:

edit: ^ nooooooooooooo
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chuckles1188 »

I reckon Itoje's going to get at least 30 minutes of game time
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by bacon2 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:I reckon Itoje's going to get at least 30 minutes of game time
Would prefer him to start ahead of Lawes tbh. Mail has him starting and they're normally on the money
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chuckles1188 »

bacon2 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:I reckon Itoje's going to get at least 30 minutes of game time
Would prefer him to start ahead of Lawes tbh. Mail has him starting and they're normally on the money
So I'm right then
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by bacon2 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
bacon2 wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:I reckon Itoje's going to get at least 30 minutes of game time
Would prefer him to start ahead of Lawes tbh. Mail has him starting and they're normally on the money
So I'm right then
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Johnny Marrmight »

Itoje is surely starting ahead of Lawes.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by pjm1 »

terryfinch wrote:
pjm1 wrote:Looks pretty much the same Ewers in the Chiefs twitter snap earlier in the month:

Image
Why is he green? Hulk?
Yes, it fitted the story/quote I was responding to.
Will Tell wrote:
theo wrote:We seem to be flush with big bruising, athletic back rowers (Billy, Itoje, Clifford, Haskell, Beaumont, Morgan, Ewers and Hughes in time maybe). What we need is a ground hog/link man to compliment them.
too true. and there is only one (temporarily) in the squad (who has yet to make the 23). this is puzzling. surely indicates he doesn't rate any of Kvesic, Wallace, Fraser. who is in pipeline? a 19 year old uni student in Cardiff? next month Wales can either start Tips & Warb or bring on the former after Lydiate has dislocated his shoulder in a flying armless chop tackle. from what I've seen Clifford doesn't look like the quick link man you want to bring on if we're chasing the game...

for odd technical reasons I re-watched the pool match with Oz. embarrassing how their back row mullered us.
We don't seem to be going for jackalling but getting men to the breakdown asap and blasting the oppos off it? On that basis, a groundhog wouldn't add as much, perhaps?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Gospel »

pjm1 wrote:We don't seem to be going for jackalling but getting men to the breakdown asap and blasting the oppos off it? On that basis, a groundhog wouldn't add as much, perhaps?
That's on our possession though. The problem is that without a truffle hog we're not offering much of a threat on oppo. ball other than trying to pour shit all over it in the form of Cole, Kruis and Haskell.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by The Man Without Fear »

Will Tell wrote:
theo wrote:We seem to be flush with big bruising, athletic back rowers (Billy, Itoje, Clifford, Haskell, Beaumont, Morgan, Ewers and Hughes in time maybe). What we need is a ground hog/link man to compliment them.
too true. and there is only one (temporarily) in the squad (who has yet to make the 23). this is puzzling. surely indicates he doesn't rate any of Kvesic, Wallace, Fraser. who is in pipeline? a 19 year old uni student in Cardiff? next month Wales can either start Tips & Warb or bring on the former after Lydiate has dislocated his shoulder in a flying armless chop tackle. from what I've seen Clifford doesn't look like the quick link man you want to bring on if we're chasing the game...

for odd technical reasons I re-watched the pool match with Oz. embarrassing how their back row mullered us.
Is this some other Clifford you've seen rather than the one who ripped it up with ball handling and support play from no 8 for the U20 RWC winners, and who has played 7s for England?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by openclashXX »

the naming of Itoje as well as players like Ibitoye and Onojaife Jr in the U18s got me thinking about the significant contribution of players with Nigerian heritage to English rugby

in recent years we've had Itoje, Monye, Erinle and Ojo, as well as the Watson brothers who are half-Nigerian on their mother's side - but also players like Hobbs-Awoyemi, Alo and Odejobi in the U20s and (further back in history) players like Victor Ubogu and Steve Ojomoh

is there any other country that has consistently given English rugby so many players?
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