**OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

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Wendigo7
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

I’ve defended him but Farrell was truly atrocious.
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Cozzer
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Cozzer »

Dobbin wrote:Huge lack of intelligence and ability to adapt at halfback. It was the same against Wales.

What do you say about Farrell - he was instrumental in the turning of the tide.

Got out of jail in the end there.
Don't you mean Ford? Farrell is a good 'front foot' fly half but when the game changes he looks befuddled. Think we've got to maybe look at Ford moving into the RWC and hope Hartley can be resurrected.
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friedchimp
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by friedchimp »

One of the forwards needs to be captain. Farrell just isn’t cut out for it.
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Chuckles1188
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Tongue in cheek but I wouldn't hate it if someone nobbled every English 10 bar Ford and Cips in the lead up to the World Cup
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terryfinch
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by terryfinch »

Oxbow wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:
Oxbow wrote:Jesus, terryfinch will top himself.
You're right, it's not all bad news
:lol:
:x




:lol:
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Cozzer
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Cozzer »

sockwithaticket wrote:
Cozzer wrote:
Oxbow wrote:Farrell also isn't any kind of captain.
Agreed. Cannot change when the game changes around him. People have lambasted Hartley for years but I think he stands out as England's most successful captain. Trouble is, he's knackered and nobody else has the gravitas/maturity/whatever.

Thank f*** they brought on Ford when they did.
Should've happened 10 - 15 minutes earlier (actually he should have been starting, but that's another argument).
I was saying this at 60 minutes. I could see him start to crumble when he tried an up and under in the oppo half and got charged down. Looked like the Cave Troll in The Fellowship Of The Ring after Legolas had shot him through his gob in Moria. Totally confused.
sockwithaticket
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by sockwithaticket »

Chuckles1188 wrote:Tongue in cheek but I wouldn't hate it if someone nobbled every English 10 bar Ford and Cips in the lead up to the World Cup
It's the only way Jones'll start someone other than Farrell
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Dobbin
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Dobbin »

Cozzer wrote:
Dobbin wrote:Huge lack of intelligence and ability to adapt at halfback. It was the same against Wales.

What do you say about Farrell - he was instrumental in the turning of the tide.

Got out of jail in the end there.
Don't you mean Ford? Farrell is a good 'front foot' fly half but when the game changes he looks befuddled. Think we've got to maybe look at Ford moving into the RWC and hope Hartley can be resurrected.
In favour of Scotland, I meant
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Wendigo7
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

I’ll whisper it - Ellis Genge was absolutely bollocks bar one passage of play.

We played one super fast game and took them and thought, 3rd strings this is easy.

It should have been but we just chilled and did fudge all.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Halfbacks, again.

Captain is wrong. Give it to curry.

Billy is a passenger, we’re better without him.

Eddie will not drop Farrell, that’s maybe first time he’s subbed him?
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Cozzer
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Cozzer »

Dobbin wrote:
Cozzer wrote:
Dobbin wrote:Huge lack of intelligence and ability to adapt at halfback. It was the same against Wales.

What do you say about Farrell - he was instrumental in the turning of the tide.

Got out of jail in the end there.
Don't you mean Ford? Farrell is a good 'front foot' fly half but when the game changes he looks befuddled. Think we've got to maybe look at Ford moving into the RWC and hope Hartley can be resurrected.
In favour of Scotland, I meant
Ah right ... gotcha :blush: :lol:
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The Man Without Fear
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by The Man Without Fear »

Cozzer wrote:
Oxbow wrote:Farrell also isn't any kind of captain.
Agreed. Cannot change when the game changes around him. People have lambasted Hartley for years but I think he stands out as England's most successful captain. Trouble is, he's knackered and nobody else has the gravitas/maturity/whatever.

Thank f*** they brought on Ford when they did.
I think Hartley was helped by some of the players around him, the current team seems very passive. If you look at the Grand Slam team it had guys like Haskell, Robshaw, Brown and non-knackered Cole, who had that "been there, seen it, done it" attitude to help drive the team on. Add in Marler in his WUM pomp and there were plenty of characters to help seize the day.
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Chuckles1188
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Wendigo7 wrote:I’ll whisper it - Ellis Genge was absolutely bollocks bar one passage of play.

We played one super fast game and took them and thought, 3rd strings this is easy.

It should have been but we just chilled and did fudge all.
Don't think he was awful but he was definitely trying too hard with the fancy footwork.

@sock yeah that's pretty much my thinking. I don't even hate Farrell, but I do find Eddie's fixation on him wearing at times. He seems to know exactly how to make coaches fall in love with him
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Cozzer
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Cozzer »

The Man Without Fear wrote:I think Hartley was helped by some of the players around him, the current team seems very passive. If you look at the Grand Slam team it had guys like Haskell, Robshaw, Brown and non-knackered Cole, who had that "been there, seen it, done it" attitude to help drive the team on. Add in Marler in his WUM pomp and there were plenty of characters to help seize the day.
Yep. Fair points :thumbup:
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Chuckles1188
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chuckles1188 »

So, for no good reason whatsoever, here's the team I'd like to see as first choice at the World Cup

Mako
Hartley (c)
Sink
Kruis
Itoje
Underhill
Curry
Wilson
Robson, but it's going to have to be Youngs :uhoh:
Cippy, but realistically Ford
May
Tuilagi
Slade
Daly
Brown

Once Hartley's gone I think the captaincy is going to/should wind up with Itoje
Last edited by Chuckles1188 on Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
tc27
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by tc27 »

Anyway Gatland is right we are mentally weak.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by sockwithaticket »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:I’ll whisper it - Ellis Genge was absolutely bollocks bar one passage of play.

We played one super fast game and took them and thought, 3rd strings this is easy.

It should have been but we just chilled and did fudge all.
Don't think he was awful but he was definitely trying too hard with the fancy footwork.

@sock yeah that's pretty much my thinking. I don't even hate Farrell, but I do find Eddie's fixation on him wearing at times. He seems to know exactly how to make coaches fall in love with him
Pundits too. It primarily seems to be his attitude that they all wax lyrical about, which is fine, but it seems to blind them to deficiencies and changing things up when necessary.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Saint »

Chuckles1188 wrote:So, for no good reason whatsoever, here's the team I'd like to see as first choice at the World Cup

Mako
Hartley (c)
Sink
Kruis
Itoje
Underhill
Curry
Wilson
Robson, but it's going to have to be Youngs :uhoh:
Cippy, but realistically Ford
May
Tuilagi
Slade
Daly
Brown

Once Hartley's gone I think the captaincy is going to/should wind up with Itoje
I don't think Dylan will make the world cup
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Chuckles1188
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chuckles1188 »

tc27 wrote:Anyway Gatland is right we are mentally weak.
Looks that way.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Saint wrote:
Chuckles1188 wrote:So, for no good reason whatsoever, here's the team I'd like to see as first choice at the World Cup

Mako
Hartley (c)
Sink
Kruis
Itoje
Underhill
Curry
Wilson
Robson, but it's going to have to be Youngs :uhoh:
Cippy, but realistically Ford
May
Tuilagi
Slade
Daly
Brown

Once Hartley's gone I think the captaincy is going to/should wind up with Itoje
I don't think Dylan will make the world cup
I don't either but it's the team I'd pick. And not one determined in a particularly calm, measured way.

9 is getting to be a serious problem.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

Not to excuse them at all, but I suppose it's not easy to stay fully mentally focused when you've BP-steamrollered your opposition in the first half.

The inability to turn it around was alarming though.
Last edited by Rugby2023 on Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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terryfinch
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by terryfinch »

First half - sublime.

Second half - appalling.

What happened? Almost like they felt they’d done enough and just couldn’t get going again. Farrell didn’t show the captaincy needed. Jones again failed to change things when it was clear the intensity had gone.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by tc27 »

Our second 40s have being rubbish since Dublin - but definitely sensed the extra complacency in that game and the Scots quite rightfully stuffed it back down our throats.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

terryfinch wrote:First half - sublime.

Second half - appalling.

What happened? Almost like they felt they’d done enough and just couldn’t get going again. Farrell didn’t show the captaincy needed. Jones again failed to change things when it was clear the intensity had gone.
Complacency. Thought it was easy.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ChipSpike »

Ford is twice the fly half of Farrell. We need an intelligent captain, we get stuck into playing in the same game even when it not working anymore.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by sockwithaticket »

We went more than 50 minutes without scoring a point. In that time they scored 38. That's f**king ridiculous.

Rugby2023 wrote:I think the first half was more truly representative of the team than the second half.

Not to excuse them at all, but I suppose it's not easy to stay fully mentally focused when you've BP-steamrollered your opposition in the first half.

The inability to turn it around was alarming though.
Which I think is entirely representative of this team. It was a common feature throughout 2018.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by tonycurrysrightleg »

Farrell says 'It shocked us...'

And it's up to the captain to get hold of the team and lead the response...oh hang on , I see the problem now :roll:
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by eldanielfire »

England didn't score form the 30th to the 84th minute. Now we have to work out that there is a HUGE long term problem about England being unable to score points after 20/30 minutes and the 2nd half. It's been a 2 year problem now.
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Wendigo7
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

We play the same style most games.

First half: blitz and empty the tank.
Second half: Manage the game and keep the score board ticking over. Play for territory every. Single. Ducking time. Box kick the shit off the ball.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ChipSpike »

Ford is twice the fly half of Farrell. We need an intelligent captain, we get stuck into playing in the same game even when it not working anymore.
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eldanielfire
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by eldanielfire »

Wendigo7 wrote:We play the same style most games.

First half: blitz and empty the tank.
Second half: Manage the game and keep the score board ticking over. Play for territory every. Single. Ducking time. Box kick the shit off the ball.
You have to wonder, is Jones approach to fitness correct?
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terryfinch
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by terryfinch »

First half of every game has been tremendous. Then something happens. Jones won’t change things either. Fitness?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by elfieldinho »

No-one in world rugby kicks away good ball like we do. A couple of years ago when we were getting turned over a lot, it was understandable. With the arrival of Tom Curry and the work of our pack, not only do we hardly ever get turned over, but we can turn bad ball into good ball over a couple of dominant phases and keep control of the game.
That isn't really a big help when 9 and 10 just keep hoofing ball back to the oppo though.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

terryfinch wrote:First half of every game has been tremendous. Then something happens. Jones won’t change things either. Fitness?
You and many, I suppose including myself, have to concede farrells game management is quite poor.

Young’s is worse though.
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Wendigo7
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

Eddie shellshocked.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Chuckles1188 »

Wendigo7 wrote:Eddie shellshocked.
Just like the players
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by sockwithaticket »

elfieldinho wrote:No-one in world rugby kicks away good ball like we do. A couple of years ago when we were getting turned over a lot, it was understandable. With the arrival of Tom Curry and the work of our pack, not only do we hardly ever get turned over, but we can turn bad ball into good ball over a couple of dominant phases and keep control of the game.
That isn't really a big help when 9 and 10 just keep hoofing ball back to the oppo though.
This and when the going gets tough Youngs and Farrell instantly revert back to it, it's the default setting they;ve had programmed into them seemingly, but they also tend to do so badly. Kicking off the back foot is tough, but it's made tougher when the kicker is putting it a good 10 metres too far for an effective chase or hoofing it into the oppo 22 rather than outside.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

terryfinch wrote:First half of every game has been tremendous. Then something happens. Jones won’t change things either. Fitness?
This is the worst part I think. Pre-determined subs?

Being crap in the 2nd half is the opposite of the first two years EJ had in charge. Inexplicable really.
Last edited by Rugby2023 on Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ThePretender
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ThePretender »

sockwithaticket wrote:
elfieldinho wrote:No-one in world rugby kicks away good ball like we do. A couple of years ago when we were getting turned over a lot, it was understandable. With the arrival of Tom Curry and the work of our pack, not only do we hardly ever get turned over, but we can turn bad ball into good ball over a couple of dominant phases and keep control of the game.
That isn't really a big help when 9 and 10 just keep hoofing ball back to the oppo though.
This and when the going gets tough Youngs and Farrell instantly revert back to it, it's the default setting they;ve had programmed into them seemingly, but they also tend to do so badly. Kicking off the back foot is tough, but it's made tougher when the kicker is putting it a good 10 metres too far for an effective chase or hoofing it into the oppo 22 rather than outside.
Clive is currently making a very good point on ITV. When was the last time we just went through the phases? We didn't even try to slow it down when the game started to get away from us, we tried to force it.
We should've gone through, 8/9/10 phases and just forced the issue. Get Scotland to make the mistakes.

Its like we have zero confidence we're going to win the breakdown so if we can put it through the hands we kick it. We played right into the mania that Scotland were thriving off in that second half.

Pretty dumb rugby all-round, same as the 2nd half vs Wales.
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Glaston
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Glaston »

Why did Sinckler go off at around 50mins?
I missed that bit.
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