**OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Great questions to which the answer isn’t singleton.
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Post by forrester »

Hanson is very underrated and his darts are top notch. It’s no coincidence that our lineout has suffered while he’s been out.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Raggs »

Tigers covering themselves in glory. Players refuse the 25% pay cut, which isn't great. Club does it anyway, which isn't great either!
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Raggs wrote:Tigers covering themselves in glory. Players refuse the 25% pay cut, which isn't great. Club does it anyway, which isn't great either!
Well I can’t see a better solution? No crowds, small tv audience, minority sport. Is it fair to say pros are becoming a bit deluded? I know the career is short and footballers earn huge money but...
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by sockwithaticket »

DragsterDriver wrote:
Raggs wrote:Tigers covering themselves in glory. Players refuse the 25% pay cut, which isn't great. Club does it anyway, which isn't great either!
Well I can’t see a better solution? No crowds, small tv audience, minority sport. Is it fair to say pros are becoming a bit deluded? I know the career is short and footballers earn huge money but...
A lot of them are quite selfish people anyway, to get where they are they've needed that, so even if they do grasp the financial realities of the club their only concern is getting theirs.

If they hate this, then they're really not going to like what comes next which is the salary cap being reduced.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Glaston »

Sale seem to have got away with it.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/s ... nt-4075284

Why are Glouc getting no compensation?
Why are the RFU paying Glouc rather than Van Rensburg paying back the money?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

sockwithaticket wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Raggs wrote:Tigers covering themselves in glory. Players refuse the 25% pay cut, which isn't great. Club does it anyway, which isn't great either!
Well I can’t see a better solution? No crowds, small tv audience, minority sport. Is it fair to say pros are becoming a bit deluded? I know the career is short and footballers earn huge money but...
A lot of them are quite selfish people anyway, to get where they are they've needed that, so even if they do grasp the financial realities of the club their only concern is getting theirs.

If they hate this, then they're really not going to like what comes next which is the salary cap being reduced.
I’ve gone full ‘prophet of doom’ so I’m pretty biased but I really think rugby is screwed. Been on shaky ground money wise already, this should fudge it nicely.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by croyals »

DragsterDriver wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Raggs wrote:Tigers covering themselves in glory. Players refuse the 25% pay cut, which isn't great. Club does it anyway, which isn't great either!
Well I can’t see a better solution? No crowds, small tv audience, minority sport. Is it fair to say pros are becoming a bit deluded? I know the career is short and footballers earn huge money but...
A lot of them are quite selfish people anyway, to get where they are they've needed that, so even if they do grasp the financial realities of the club their only concern is getting theirs.

If they hate this, then they're really not going to like what comes next which is the salary cap being reduced.
I’ve gone full ‘prophet of doom’ so I’m pretty biased but I really think rugby is screwed. Been on shaky ground money wise already, this should fudge it nicely.
Fully agree. Look at the crowds - this sport cannot pay for itself
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Margin_Walker »

Glaston wrote:Sale seem to have got away with it.

https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/s ... nt-4075284

Why are Glouc getting no compensation?
Why are the RFU paying Glouc rather than Van Rensburg paying back the money?
Was reading about that earlier. What a mad story.

Certainly seems lenient
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Margin_Walker »

Am also in the prophet of doom camp. We were in trouble before this with rugby being unsustainable as a result of wages bearing no sensible relation to revenue.

This is a complete hurricane on top of that. I can't see crowds in stadiums this year. Some clubs at serious risk of going under
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

I’m not sure if it’s arrogance, wishful thinking or blind loyalty but Rugby people don’t seem to get it. We’ve started pre season individually for September start :lol:

But yeah I think the pro game is miles out of step with reality.
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Post by Glaston »

Sounds like some of the players want more money and dont approve of the pay cuts or the hiring freeze.



"Premiership players are in advanced discussions about launching a breakaway union after growing frustrated with the Rugby Players’ Association (RPA) and its response to the coronavirus pandemic.

Telegraph Sport understands that professional players from around the country, including current England internationals, feel that the RPA is heavily compromised because of its reliance on Premiership Rugby for funding.

There is also a sense of injustice that the RPA “have not turned up” to protect their members since March, with Premiership clubs effectively “colluding” to impart blanket pay-cuts across the league and then choosing not to sign one another’s players.

“Gloucester announced they were going to take pay-cuts and all the other clubs followed suit to do the same thing,” said one senior player from a Premiership club."
“PRL [Premiership Rugby Limited] is owned by the 13 clubs in the Premiership plus Newcastle Falcons and the clubs have colluded together to make the same cuts across the league, with Newcastle making 50 per cent cuts.”

He claimed that the decision not to sign one another’s players was tantamount to “collusion or price-fixing”.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... new-union/
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Nieghorn »

What might the median salary be in a Prem team?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by SaintK »

DragsterDriver wrote:I’m not sure if it’s arrogance, wishful thinking or blind loyalty but Rugby people don’t seem to get it. We’ve started pre season individually for September start :lol:

But yeah I think the pro game is miles out of step with reality.
Discussing exactly this with my club chairman yesterday. Can't see community rugby clubs open for business by then. Can't see any Autumn internationals taking place in front of a crowd either
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by sockwithaticket »

Glaston wrote:Sounds like some of the players want more money and dont approve of the pay cuts or the hiring freeze.



"Premiership players are in advanced discussions about launching a breakaway union after growing frustrated with the Rugby Players’ Association (RPA) and its response to the coronavirus pandemic.

Telegraph Sport understands that professional players from around the country, including current England internationals, feel that the RPA is heavily compromised because of its reliance on Premiership Rugby for funding.

There is also a sense of injustice that the RPA “have not turned up” to protect their members since March, with Premiership clubs effectively “colluding” to impart blanket pay-cuts across the league and then choosing not to sign one another’s players.

“Gloucester announced they were going to take pay-cuts and all the other clubs followed suit to do the same thing,” said one senior player from a Premiership club."
“PRL [Premiership Rugby Limited] is owned by the 13 clubs in the Premiership plus Newcastle Falcons and the clubs have colluded together to make the same cuts across the league, with Newcastle making 50 per cent cuts.”

He claimed that the decision not to sign one another’s players was tantamount to “collusion or price-fixing”.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... new-union/
Sounds like they need a dose of reality. I imagine clubs all followed suit after Glaws because they'd been waiting for someone to make the first move on what wouldn't be a well received decision by the playing staff. Players have to realise that for most clubs, which struggle financially anyway, they are the biggest drain on funds.

From what I've been reading most clubs have been reducing the pay of everyone in the organisation bar anyone who's on like £20k, rather than singling players out for this treatment.

We're probably going to lose a couple of Prem clubs before this is over as it is, without wage cuts that number would probably increase. How are players going to ply their trade in future if the professional game falls apart? Surely having a future is the more important thing (for anyone not hovering arpund retirement age)?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Dobbin »

Which clubs are the most likely casualties? Those without their own ground or servicing large debts, you'd think.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Nieghorn »

SaintK wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:I’m not sure if it’s arrogance, wishful thinking or blind loyalty but Rugby people don’t seem to get it. We’ve started pre season individually for September start :lol:

But yeah I think the pro game is miles out of step with reality.
Discussing exactly this with my club chairman yesterday. Can't see community rugby clubs open for business by then. Can't see any Autumn internationals taking place in front of a crowd either
I was just reading an article from one of our provinces that wasn't hit hard at all ... 118 total, no new ones for nearly a week now ... was even suggesting that sports might not return until next year.

Can't imagine Europe will be back this autumn either.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by dinsdale »

Dobbin wrote:Which clubs are the most likely casualties? Those without their own ground or servicing large debts, you'd think.
The well run ones without sugardaddy owners, sadly.

Not that there are many of those.
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Post by Scrumhead »

I sympathise with the players as I would with anyone taking a pay cut, but unfortunately in this case, I think their whole industry is at stake and 50% of something (if that’s what they’re being asked) is better than 50% or nothing if pro rugby were to collapse.

Even prior to COVID-19 it was pretty obvious pro rugby was in a pretty perilous position with very few clubs making money and essentially relying on retaining the interest of the sugar daddies. Obviously the CVC money, TV and match day revenue from tickets and merchandise are other forms of financing the clubs but right now, it’s hard to see fixtures being completed this season and definitely not in front of a regular attendance.

Presumably games played behind closed doors will still be televised, but I can’t see where the money is coming from without regular match day income and that seems highly unlikely to come back any time soon.

I like Pichot’s idea of a game, but even if it were amazing it’s going to take a long time for any casual interest it inspires to turn in to something that actually makes money for the game.

In short, I fear for our game. I know it’s not important in the grand scheme of things, but this sport has given me so much enjoyment as a player and a spectator and is a huge part of my life. I’ll be devastated if this virus is the death of professional rugby as we know it. :((
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by croyals »

There's got to be more critical thinking from the players. Even if everything does start up again in time for next season
1) A lot of people are not going to want to be packed in at a stadium for a while, so attendances will be down.
2) We'll be in recession so people will cut back on discretionary spending

Rugby needs to cut its cloth now, or have a major issue down the line
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Post by Saint »

Nieghorn wrote:What might the median salary be in a Prem team?
At a complete guess, somewhere in the £100k range, lower if you include senior academy
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SaintK wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:I’m not sure if it’s arrogance, wishful thinking or blind loyalty but Rugby people don’t seem to get it. We’ve started pre season individually for September start :lol:

But yeah I think the pro game is miles out of step with reality.
Discussing exactly this with my club chairman yesterday. Can't see community rugby clubs open for business by then. Can't see any Autumn internationals taking place in front of a crowd either
It seems like wishful thinking is order of the day. I can’t see how you can possibly have a 16 man scrum with even relaxed distancing regulations? I can’t see any amateur/semi pro rugby until a treatment for the virus is available and in ready supply?

The pro game behind closed doors- well maybe they can sign a waiver? But rugby with no crowd is pretty soulless.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

croyals wrote:There's got to be more critical thinking from the players. Even if everything does start up again in time for next season
1) A lot of people are not going to want to be packed in at a stadium for a while, so attendances will be down.
2) We'll be in recession so people will cut back on discretionary spending

Rugby needs to cut its cloth now, or have a major issue down the line
Thing is- what bargaining power do they have? Fine, leave- where you gonna work?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Saint »

DragsterDriver wrote:
SaintK wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:I’m not sure if it’s arrogance, wishful thinking or blind loyalty but Rugby people don’t seem to get it. We’ve started pre season individually for September start :lol:

But yeah I think the pro game is miles out of step with reality.
Discussing exactly this with my club chairman yesterday. Can't see community rugby clubs open for business by then. Can't see any Autumn internationals taking place in front of a crowd either
It seems like wishful thinking is order of the day. I can’t see how you can possibly have a 16 man scrum with even relaxed distancing regulations? I can’t see any amateur/semi pro rugby until a treatment for the virus is available and in ready supply?

The pro game behind closed doors- well maybe they can sign a waiver? But rugby with no crowd is pretty soulless.

I suspect that most pro sports have to show that they have plans to restart in the next few months, even when we know that there's no chance, to show the insurance that it's legal issues preventing them from cracking on. Even amateur football is going to have issues restarting without an effective vaccine
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Seems big talk of prem football being imminent?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Sorry to rugby but:

30 Lancashire clubs left the RFU and started their own league to reduce travel?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by MushyKnees »

There has been 2 leagues of 10 running for a couple of seasons now. Essentially the more northerly clubs were fed up of having to support the cumbrian leagues and travelling 2hrs or more for level 7 rugby. They're good competitive leagues to be fair and the maximum distance travelled is now an hour or so between the clubs. Much better for what is still very much social rugby.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

MushyKnees wrote:There has been 2 leagues of 10 running for a couple of seasons now. Essentially the more northerly clubs were fed up of having to support the cumbrian leagues and travelling 2hrs or more for level 7 rugby. They're good competitive leagues to be fair and the maximum distance travelled is now an hour or so between the clubs. Much better for what is still very much social rugby.
:thumbup:

Are they still under the RFU?
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Post by maverickmak »

Sounds like Gengey is having a busy quarantine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52449455
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

maverickmak wrote:Sounds like Gengey is having a busy quarantine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52449455
Makes a mockery of Tom Young’s and turnstiles staunch denials.
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Post by brero »

Only 4 or 5 of the clubs in the breakaway leagues were in leagues that involved away games in Cumbria. I don't see what most of the teams got out of it other than not playing away games against Wirral / South Cheshire teams - but they have now let in New Brighton and Hoylake!
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Post by matta25 »

maverickmak wrote:Sounds like Gengey is having a busy quarantine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52449455
Is he only complaining about the way clubs have gone about reducing their salaries, or is it a 'how dare they reduce us players salary'? Almost all staff at most Premiership clubs have had the 25% cut, at best. Maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like a few are suggesting they're too special for that. The Freddie Burns Show™ was one of those up in arms about it at Bath.
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Post by eldanielfire »

DragsterDriver wrote:
inactionman wrote:
forrester wrote:Jonny May back to Glaws.
Him and that young taff lad on the wings - that's some serious gas
And Thornley, and Marshall.

Spending well.
And Charlie Sharples. Loaded with wingers, probably the least influential position in the game match after match. I do wonder about Rugby directors sometimes. Surely it's better to aim for balance or laod up your forwards with quality?
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Post by fatcat »

matta25 wrote:
maverickmak wrote:Sounds like Gengey is having a busy quarantine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52449455
Is he only complaining about the way clubs have gone about reducing their salaries, or is it a 'how dare they reduce us players salary'? Almost all staff at most Premiership clubs have had the 25% cut, at best. Maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like a few are suggesting they're too special for that. The Freddie Burns Show™ was one of those up in arms about it at Bath.
My impression is that he was not happy with the way it was handled/contracted/pushed upon players rather than the actual reduction in money.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

I expect The clubs to dig in here, could get ugly but they’ve access to the books and know the reality of the situation. Reality check- no games being played, potentially behind doors if they are.

I watched the NRL game behind closed doors and it was a training run, no craic at all.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

fatcat wrote:
matta25 wrote:
maverickmak wrote:Sounds like Gengey is having a busy quarantine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52449455
Is he only complaining about the way clubs have gone about reducing their salaries, or is it a 'how dare they reduce us players salary'? Almost all staff at most Premiership clubs have had the 25% cut, at best. Maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like a few are suggesting they're too special for that. The Freddie Burns Show™ was one of those up in arms about it at Bath.
My impression is that he was not happy with the way it was handled/contracted/pushed upon players rather than the actual reduction in money.
Yeah that’s what I’d say if I was him.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Margin_Walker »

DragsterDriver wrote:
fatcat wrote:
matta25 wrote:
maverickmak wrote:Sounds like Gengey is having a busy quarantine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52449455
Is he only complaining about the way clubs have gone about reducing their salaries, or is it a 'how dare they reduce us players salary'? Almost all staff at most Premiership clubs have had the 25% cut, at best. Maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like a few are suggesting they're too special for that. The Freddie Burns Show™ was one of those up in arms about it at Bath.
My impression is that he was not happy with the way it was handled/contracted/pushed upon players rather than the actual reduction in money.
Yeah that’s what I’d say if I was him.
:lol:

That was my first thought too.

It probably was managed poorly, but the end result is likely to be the same.

Can see why a player out of contract this summer may feel like digging in a little given the poor prospect of picking up another, but those contracted next season and beyond will just need to suck it up.
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Post by DragsterDriver »

They’re getting paid a vast amount of money without being on furlough, despite their employers haemorrhaging money with no immediate prospect of income.
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Post by crash 669 »

matta25 wrote:
maverickmak wrote:Sounds like Gengey is having a busy quarantine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52449455
Is he only complaining about the way clubs have gone about reducing their salaries, or is it a 'how dare they reduce us players salary'? Almost all staff at most Premiership clubs have had the 25% cut, at best. Maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like a few are suggesting they're too special for that. The Freddie Burns Show™ was one of those up in arms about it at Bath.
After the Sarries debacle a lot of players are giving the lie to "rugby values" and all that bollocks. They're perfectly entitled to be mercenary about their income, for very legitimate reasons but the hypocrisy of maintaining that some amateur ethos of loyalty still exists can do one.

Mate of mine who plays for Cornish Pirates has had some of their stuff on Facebook. It looks very like they're treating the season as done even if it's not official.
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Post by blindcider »

crash 669 wrote:
matta25 wrote:
maverickmak wrote:Sounds like Gengey is having a busy quarantine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52449455
Is he only complaining about the way clubs have gone about reducing their salaries, or is it a 'how dare they reduce us players salary'? Almost all staff at most Premiership clubs have had the 25% cut, at best. Maybe I'm wrong but it sounds like a few are suggesting they're too special for that. The Freddie Burns Show™ was one of those up in arms about it at Bath.
After the Sarries debacle a lot of players are giving the lie to "rugby values" and all that bollocks. They're perfectly entitled to be mercenary about their income, for very legitimate reasons but the hypocrisy of maintaining that some amateur ethos of loyalty still exists can do one.

Mate of mine who plays for Cornish Pirates has had some of their stuff on Facebook. It looks very like they're treating the season as done even if it's not official.
Was it not agreed ages ago to end the season domestically at all levels below the Prem?
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