**OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

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ChipSpike
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ChipSpike »

IMO we sort out the penalty issue and we're doing ok. This shouldn't be hard to fix. We have a great defense and a good attacking game, there's no reason to panic. BV had a much better game today and was quite destructive. Farrell was better. Wilson played well. We don't agree with selection sometimes, well, that's a shock.
mr flaps
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

I don’t think we have discipline problem. The first 3 against Maro today were utter bollocks and we were generally held to a different standard.

Selection is the problem. There were still opportunities to beat them despite Gaüzère and we f**ked it up. We need a balanced back line and players on the bench that we are confident to use.
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fatcat
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by fatcat »

mr flaps wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:23 pm I don’t think we have discipline problem.
The last 10 minutes says otherwise. Plus discipline isn't just about not giving penalties away, it's also about players doing their jobs in attack, defence and transitioning; making correct decisions and good choices. England's discipline is not close to good enough.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

fatcat wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:31 pm
mr flaps wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:23 pm I don’t think we have discipline problem.
The last 10 minutes says otherwise. Plus discipline isn't just about not giving penalties away, it's also about players doing their jobs in attack, defence and transitioning; making correct decisions and good choices. England's discipline is not close to good enough.

Must be very frustrating for these players to watch the opposition not get pinged for the same offenses. The few times he did ping them for not rolling away he gave them an age, it wasn’t even subtle. Ruined a good game.
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fatcat
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by fatcat »

You can't control the ref but you can control your own decisions.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

fatcat wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:56 pm You can't control the ref but you can control your own decisions.
So Maro should have ignored a ball that was obviously out? Or not strip the ball in the tackle? Fair enough.
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fatcat
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by fatcat »

My point is that Maro being unfairly penalised has nothing to do with Jonny Hill acting the twat in the lineout, or Elliot Daly spazzing out on any number of occasions etc
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Hawk97
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Hawk97 »

DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:15 pm
covrich wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:40 pm Robson seems to shit the bed when he comes on, he practically gave away 1pt point per minute.


Annoying as things seem with the controversal decisions, we only have ourselves to blame..

Tbf Farrell and Eddie both handled the interviews well
Robson is talented but has shit the bed in every audition, he’s either very unlucky or nervous.
Heard him on Monye's podcast, he admitted he was f**king nervous.

He ain't it. Back to the drawing board with SH. Will be Youngs until he retires, bet let's get Spencer back in
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Hawk97
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Hawk97 »

ChipSpike wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:02 pm IMO we sort out the penalty issue and we're doing ok. This shouldn't be hard to fix. We have a great defense and a good attacking game, there's no reason to panic. BV had a much better game today and was quite destructive. Farrell was better. Wilson played well. We don't agree with selection sometimes, well, that's a shock.
I have to admit i turned it off after we gifted them more penalties after we levelled it, but can we really say our defence is great after this?
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Hawk97
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Hawk97 »

mr flaps wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:55 pm
fatcat wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:31 pm
mr flaps wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:23 pm I don’t think we have discipline problem.
The last 10 minutes says otherwise. Plus discipline isn't just about not giving penalties away, it's also about players doing their jobs in attack, defence and transitioning; making correct decisions and good choices. England's discipline is not close to good enough.

Must be very frustrating for these players to watch the opposition not get pinged for the same offenses. The few times he did ping them for not rolling away he gave them an age, it wasn’t even subtle. Ruined a good game.
I see where you're coming from, and used to think the same thing, but the sheer amount now is making me thinks that all these refs can't be in on something

We give away more pens than our opposition in nearly every game. I'll post stats tomorrow, but particularly against Wales, it's staggering
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

fatcat wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:09 pm My point is that Maro being unfairly penalised has nothing to do with Jonny Hill acting the twat in the lineout, or Elliot Daly spazzing out on any number of occasions etc
The momentum shift of 3 pens is huge.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Say the ref was riding itoje- calm it down and stop taking risks. Not rocket science.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Hawk97 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:13 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:15 pm
covrich wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:40 pm Robson seems to shit the bed when he comes on, he practically gave away 1pt point per minute.


Annoying as things seem with the controversal decisions, we only have ourselves to blame..

Tbf Farrell and Eddie both handled the interviews well
Robson is talented but has shit the bed in every audition, he’s either very unlucky or nervous.
Heard him on Monye's podcast, he admitted he was f**king nervous.

He ain't it. Back to the drawing board with SH. Will be Youngs until he retires, bet let's get Spencer back in
That’s deffo how it appears to me.
ChipSpike
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ChipSpike »

Hawk97 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:16 pm
ChipSpike wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:02 pm IMO we sort out the penalty issue and we're doing ok. This shouldn't be hard to fix. We have a great defense and a good attacking game, there's no reason to panic. BV had a much better game today and was quite destructive. Farrell was better. Wilson played well. We don't agree with selection sometimes, well, that's a shock.
I have to admit i turned it off after we gifted them more penalties after we levelled it, but can we really say our defence is great after this?
The first two tries were unlucky for us to say the least, another came as a result of chasing game. But generally our defense looks back to being suffocating. The penalty count killed us.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ovalball »

mr flaps wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:21 pm
fatcat wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:09 pm My point is that Maro being unfairly penalised has nothing to do with Jonny Hill acting the twat in the lineout, or Elliot Daly spazzing out on any number of occasions etc
The momentum shift of 3 pens is huge.
Unfortunately, it hasn't just been this game, we are serial offenders - we always give away more penalties than the oppo - and many of the penalties we give away are just dumb - pure stupidity. If we took out the dumb ones, we'd probably not be much worse than other sides. But, that period after we equalised was just braindead.

We did get the rough end of the decisions today - but the game was still ours to win and we farked it up.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:23 pm
Hawk97 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:13 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:15 pm
covrich wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:40 pm Robson seems to shit the bed when he comes on, he practically gave away 1pt point per minute.


Annoying as things seem with the controversal decisions, we only have ourselves to blame..

Tbf Farrell and Eddie both handled the interviews well
Robson is talented but has shit the bed in every audition, he’s either very unlucky or nervous.
Heard him on Monye's podcast, he admitted he was f**king nervous.

He ain't it. Back to the drawing board with SH. Will be Youngs until he retires, bet let's get Spencer back in
That’s deffo how it appears to me.

Do you think Jones feels obligated to keep these guys playing because it’s a Lions year?
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

mr flaps wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:36 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:23 pm
Hawk97 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:13 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:15 pm
covrich wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:40 pm Robson seems to shit the bed when he comes on, he practically gave away 1pt point per minute.


Annoying as things seem with the controversal decisions, we only have ourselves to blame..

Tbf Farrell and Eddie both handled the interviews well
Robson is talented but has shit the bed in every audition, he’s either very unlucky or nervous.
Heard him on Monye's podcast, he admitted he was f**king nervous.

He ain't it. Back to the drawing board with SH. Will be Youngs until he retires, bet let's get Spencer back in
That’s deffo how it appears to me.

Do you think Jones feels obligated to keep these guys playing because it’s a Lions year?
I think he’s a stubborn pensioner who’s picked his hill to die on. He thought he could play them into form against all evidence and he was wrong.
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Hawk97
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Hawk97 »

mr flaps wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:36 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:23 pm
Hawk97 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:13 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:15 pm
covrich wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:40 pm Robson seems to shit the bed when he comes on, he practically gave away 1pt point per minute.


Annoying as things seem with the controversal decisions, we only have ourselves to blame..

Tbf Farrell and Eddie both handled the interviews well
Robson is talented but has shit the bed in every audition, he’s either very unlucky or nervous.
Heard him on Monye's podcast, he admitted he was f**king nervous.

He ain't it. Back to the drawing board with SH. Will be Youngs until he retires, bet let's get Spencer back in
That’s deffo how it appears to me.

Do you think Jones feels obligated to keep these guys playing because it’s a Lions year?
Do you reckon he cares about the Lions?
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Hawk97
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Hawk97 »

Mako
LCD
Sinckler
Itoje
Launch(?) if not, Attwood
Wilson I suppose
Curry
Simmonds

Spencer
Ford
May
Maybe try Lawrence and Slade?
Watson
Malins

Not seeing it with Hill or Ewels. Billy just played himself into undroppable status so no sign of SS or Dombrandt this side of 2022
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:23 pm
Hawk97 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:13 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:15 pm
covrich wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:40 pm Robson seems to shit the bed when he comes on, he practically gave away 1pt point per minute.


Annoying as things seem with the controversal decisions, we only have ourselves to blame..

Tbf Farrell and Eddie both handled the interviews well
Robson is talented but has shit the bed in every audition, he’s either very unlucky or nervous.
Heard him on Monye's podcast, he admitted he was f**king nervous.

He ain't it. Back to the drawing board with SH. Will be Youngs until he retires, bet let's get Spencer back in
That’s deffo how it appears to me.

Do you think Jones feels obligated to keep these guys playing because it’s a Lions year?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

Hawk97 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:40 pm
mr flaps wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:36 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:23 pm
Hawk97 wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:13 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:15 pm
Robson is talented but has shit the bed in every audition, he’s either very unlucky or nervous.
Heard him on Monye's podcast, he admitted he was f**king nervous.

He ain't it. Back to the drawing board with SH. Will be Youngs until he retires, bet let's get Spencer back in
That’s deffo how it appears to me.

Do you think Jones feels obligated to keep these guys playing because it’s a Lions year?
Do you reckon he cares about the Lions?

I don’t know. But he might feel he had an obligation to the players that have been with him since the beginning.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by eldanielfire »

fatcat wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:56 pm You can't control the ref but you can control your own decisions.
A bigger question that ref calls, is how on earth has England's discipline gone backwards so quickly? It's now at Martin Johnson slamming his fists era England (which was 10+ years ago now :eek: ) after they were doing everything so near perfectly in 2019?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ovalball »

Maybe it's all a cunning plan from Eddie. He doesn't want loads of English players going on the Lions tour and getting flogged to death. The way he has them playing now, there won't be many of them on the plane.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Monk Zombie »

The angst is crippling them
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

The players are thick and indisciplined. Fücking shambles.
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Hawk97
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Hawk97 »

eldanielfire wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:07 am
fatcat wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:56 pm You can't control the ref but you can control your own decisions.
) after they were doing everything so near perfectly in 2019?
Not true, we still gave tons of pens away. In Cardiff that year Wales only gave 2 away :lol: we had 10
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Hawk97
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Hawk97 »

2021

vs Wales; 14 penalties (Wales 9)
vs Italy; 12 penalties (Italy 11)
vs Scotland; 15 penalties (Scotland 6)

2020

vs Italy; 13 penalties (Italy 13)
vs Wales; 10 penalties (Wales 6)
vs Ireland; 13 penalties (Ireland 7)
vs Scotland; 8 penalties (Scotland 6)....hurray
vs France; 5 penalties (France 7)


So in the last year, we have only been on the right side of the penalty count twice. Gave away double digit penalties on 6 out of 8 games tracked (the autumn isn't tracked on espn). Opposition only twice in that span.

The stats going back over the last 6 years just specifically against Wales is shocking.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Punter15 »

DragsterDriver wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:34 am The players are thick and indisciplined. Fücking shambles.
Looks like Eddie is such an autocrat with such a defined plan that they have been coached not to think, and just follow instructions. They may not have been the brightest bunch to start with, but he's managed to make them thicker.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by fatcat »

I don't think it will necessarily take too much to get the team firing again, but it really does feel like a freshen up is needed at full back, 8 and captain. It would also be good to see some other new or newish faces to gee everyone up.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by blindcider »

fatcat wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:43 am I don't think it will necessarily take too much to get the team firing again, but it really does feel like a freshen up is needed at full back, 8 and captain. It would also be good to see some other new or newish faces to gee everyone up.
I'd add in hooker to your list. LCD adds far more to the team imo.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Petej »

Punter15 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:26 am
DragsterDriver wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:34 am The players are thick and indisciplined. Fücking shambles.
Looks like Eddie is such an autocrat with such a defined plan that they have been coached not to think, and just follow instructions. They may not have been the brightest bunch to start with, but he's managed to make them thicker.
The selection of the thickest player in the squad as captain is a huge mistake.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ovalball »

fatcat wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:43 am I don't think it will necessarily take too much to get the team firing again, but it really does feel like a freshen up is needed at full back, 8 and captain. It would also be good to see some other new or newish faces to gee everyone up.
I was just thinking exactly the same. When we were playing with the ball, and on the rare ocassions we weren't giving away penalties, we actually looked quite dangerous. Improve the discipline and change out the few players that really hold us back - and we'd soon be a force again.

I don't like the balance we have with no strike runner in the centres - Daly simply isn't a FB. Billy had a better game yesterday but he is very one dimensional and has been poor for far too long. The backrow lacks dynamism but it isn't a disaster - we do have some better options though. Hill hasn't really impressed yet but has been passable. Even with Youngs at SH, we can play decent rugby. Itoje just needs to rein it in a bit.

We really need better leadership on the field - Farrell is not cutting it as a player or skipper. Not sure who we have that could take over as skipper - Itoje is too much of a culprit to demand greater discipline.
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Hawk97
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Hawk97 »

ovalball wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:06 pm
fatcat wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:43 am I don't think it will necessarily take too much to get the team firing again, but it really does feel like a freshen up is needed at full back, 8 and captain. It would also be good to see some other new or newish faces to gee everyone up.
I was just thinking exactly the same. When we were playing with the ball, and on the rare ocassions we weren't giving away penalties, we actually looked quite dangerous. Improve the discipline and change out the few players that really hold us back - and we'd soon be a force again.

I don't like the balance we have with no strike runner in the centres - Daly simply isn't a FB. Billy had a better game yesterday but he is very one dimensional and has been poor for far too long. The backrow lacks dynamism but it isn't a disaster - we do have some better options though. Hill hasn't really impressed yet but has been passable. Even with Youngs at SH, we can play decent rugby. Itoje just needs to rein it in a bit.

We really need better leadership on the field - Farrell is not cutting it as a player or skipper. Not sure who we have that could take over as skipper - Itoje is too much of a culprit to demand greater discipline.
I think we probably need to accept Faz is captain until he calls it a day. If you watch the behind the scenes stuff on YT, he does so much talking and he commands meetings etc. He is also very loud on the pitch and he does have leadership quality. He's a limited player, not in form and isn't bright, but he's probably going nowhere. So we need to develop other leaders within team. Itoje is on that list, for sure. Curry was with Mitchell coaching up Martin a bit during the week - maybe Curry one day?

Improving the discipline will do so much, I agree. I keep banging on about it, but it really is a fountain of points our opposition every single game. Not sure about yesterday, but every loss against Wales over the last 5 years or so would have been comfortable wins if we hadn't been pinged over 10 times.

We can play decent rugby, we can defend, we can over power - IF we stop the consant pens, we are a force again, yeah.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by C69 »

When you guys were winning and playing well you didn't blame the ref.
Think about it. Shipping 40 points wasn't the refs fault. There are a lot of rose cnuted glasses on tbh.
Enoy your delusions about being unfairly reffed every time you lose.
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Hawk97
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Hawk97 »

C69 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:19 pm When you guys were winning and playing well you didn't blame the ref.
Think about it. Shipping 40 points wasn't the refs fault. There are a lot of rose cnuted glasses on tbh.
Enoy your delusions about being unfairly reffed every time you lose.
We aren't blaming the ref you fckwit, read all the comments. How many times have you seen us saying we are stupid team, we give away so many pens etc?

Do you ever have a day off?

Complaining about the amount of pens we give away is admitting a fault within our team, not the ref.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ovalball »

C69 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:19 pm When you guys were winning and playing well you didn't blame the ref.
Think about it. Shipping 40 points wasn't the refs fault. There are a lot of rose cnuted glasses on tbh.
Enoy your delusions about being unfairly reffed every time you lose.
Not blaming the ref now either. Blaming our indiscipline. We shipped 23 points directly from penalties - and that's before we look at the amount of field position our indiscipline cost us. It was a horror show. Neither did we blame the ref when we lost to the Scotch.

Maybe it is you being delusional.

Oh - and fuck off, off our thread.
Last edited by ovalball on Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ovalball »

Hawk97 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:21 pm
C69 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:19 pm When you guys were winning and playing well you didn't blame the ref.
Think about it. Shipping 40 points wasn't the refs fault. There are a lot of rose cnuted glasses on tbh.
Enoy your delusions about being unfairly reffed every time you lose.
We aren't blaming the ref you fckwit, read all the comments. How many times have you seen us saying we are stupid team, we give away so many pens etc?

Do you ever have a day off?

Complaining about the amount of pens we give away is admitting a fault within our team, not the ref.
Don't be too hard on him Hawk, he's Welsh - it isn't his fault.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by fatcat »

C69 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:19 pm When you guys were winning and playing well you didn't blame the ref.
Think about it. Shipping 40 points wasn't the refs fault. There are a lot of rose cnuted glasses on tbh.
Enoy your delusions about being unfairly reffed every time you lose.
:lol: You've got admire the force of nature which is Welsh gloating!
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by C69 »

Hawk97 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:21 pm
C69 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:19 pm When you guys were winning and playing well you didn't blame the ref.
Think about it. Shipping 40 points wasn't the refs fault. There are a lot of rose cnuted glasses on tbh.
Enoy your delusions about being unfairly reffed every time you lose.
We aren't blaming the ref you fckwit, read all the comments. How many times have you seen us saying we are stupid team, we give away so many pens etc?

Do you ever have a day off?

Complaining about the amount of pens we give away is admitting a fault within our team, not the ref.
Shall I quote some examples of posters blaming the ref and complaining the Welsh were favoured?
No I will leave the thread as asked to

Unless I am quoted or replied to, it's goodbye.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Anonymous 1 »

C69 wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 12:19 pm When you guys were winning and playing well you didn't blame the ref.
Think about it. Shipping 40 points wasn't the refs fault. There are a lot of rose cnuted glasses on tbh.
Enoy your delusions about being unfairly reffed every time you lose.
talk about deluded
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