**OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

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bimboman
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by bimboman »

DragsterDriver wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:15 am The pro game never has washed its own face, unsustainable. I don’t like the Exeter/England brand of rugby anyway- shite to watch.

Yep, but that’s all down to the lack of central funding/or leaving the game to true market forces.

I’ve expressed my view that it should be a franchise model at the highest level and regionally representative, which it’s a mix of rich blokes, clubs with “history” and the RFU sending a tenner down to Hartford rugby or wherever while living in a gold palace with nice wine the English model will lose.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

bimboman wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:20 am
DragsterDriver wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:15 am The pro game never has washed its own face, unsustainable. I don’t like the Exeter/England brand of rugby anyway- shite to watch.

Yep, but that’s all down to the lack of central funding/or leaving the game to true market forces.

I’ve expressed my view that it should be a franchise model at the highest level and regionally representative, which it’s a mix of rich blokes, clubs with “history” and the RFU sending a tenner down to Hartford rugby or wherever while living in a gold palace with nice wine the English model will lose.
Yeah I’m not a prem club fan so regionalised game would suit me. Eastern Counties with semi pro beneath that, like the kiwi model.
bimboman
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by bimboman »

DragsterDriver wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:22 am
bimboman wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:20 am
DragsterDriver wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:15 am The pro game never has washed its own face, unsustainable. I don’t like the Exeter/England brand of rugby anyway- shite to watch.

Yep, but that’s all down to the lack of central funding/or leaving the game to true market forces.

I’ve expressed my view that it should be a franchise model at the highest level and regionally representative, which it’s a mix of rich blokes, clubs with “history” and the RFU sending a tenner down to Hartford rugby or wherever while living in a gold palace with nice wine the English model will lose.
Yeah I’m not a prem club fan so regionalised game would suit me. Eastern Counties with semi pro beneath that, like the kiwi model.

Exactly that. It consistently displays a lack of confidence in the end product which countrywide could easily support 12 regional teams and academies. If they started post 2003 it would not be the model.

I don’t think we will ever leave the club system though so here’s where we are and the high mark will be an occasional exceptional team, a cheating millionaire etc.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

That’s accurate.

I’m not optimistic for the games future anyway, at best it will be an NFL style model. Played at posh schools the pro, no real community game. The head injury lawsuits and lack of amateur players will see to it.
bimboman
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by bimboman »

DragsterDriver wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:40 am That’s accurate.

I’m not optimistic for the games future anyway, at best it will be an NFL style model. Played at posh schools the pro, no real community game. The head injury lawsuits and lack of amateur players will see to it.

Yeo agreed, except the “minis” are absolutely full everywhere. So again they really should be better.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Exeter could have done with a decent No8
piquant
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by piquant »

The professional club game in England has only been growing since its inception, and until this season had won 4 out of the previous 5 cups in Europe. It's not exactly all doom and gloom at the top club level. Other than the slight issue of a pandemic, and other than issues around concussion, and neither of those are issues particular to professional rugby in England.
bimboman
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by bimboman »

piquant wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:59 pm The professional club game in England has only been growing since its inception, and until this season had won 4 out of the previous 5 cups in Europe. It's not exactly all doom and gloom at the top club level. Other than the slight issue of a pandemic, and other than issues around concussion, and neither of those are issues particular to professional rugby in England.

A shite national side, a premier league watched by f uck all people live and can be bought for a month on telly for the price of one premiership football match. 50% of Rugby fans plus disenfranchised from following a club in any real sense etc etc.

It’s shite.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by piquant »

The national side are pretty good, and trying to improve. There's an awful lot more they're getting right than wrong. And I had in mind league attendances were trending up, by watching live do you mean watching on TV? Certainly TV audiences are on the low side, but the paywall isn't an easy thing for the clubs to workaround.

And we do need to keep in mind this has been grown from scratch in 25 years or so. We've got some excellent clubs, we've got some excellent academy systems, the pitches are improving, some of the grounds and facilities (and not just Prem clubs) are now fantastic.

I would like to see rugby reach a wider prospective playing pool, we're missing out on far too much potential and that is limiting. I would like to see some more FTA club rugby, and on consistent basis not just the odd game in Europe, but as before that's not an easy fix. And I would like to see a little more ambition from some of the coaches, our rugby can be a little... unedifying.

Mainly things are going well and improving. How things shake out around the pandemic, concussion, CVC, we'll have to wait and see.
bimboman
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by bimboman »

piquant wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:41 pm The national side are pretty good, and trying to improve. There's an awful lot more they're getting right than wrong. And I had in mind league attendances were trending up, by watching live do you mean watching on TV? Certainly TV audiences are on the low side, but the paywall isn't an easy thing for the clubs to workaround.

And we do need to keep in mind this has been grown from scratch in 25 years or so. We've got some excellent clubs, we've got some excellent academy systems, the pitches are improving, some of the grounds and facilities (and not just Prem clubs) are now fantastic.

I would like to see rugby reach a wider prospective playing pool, we're missing out on far too much potential and that is limiting. I would like to see some more FTA club rugby, and on consistent basis not just the odd game in Europe, but as before that's not an easy fix. And I would like to see a little more ambition from some of the coaches, our rugby can be a little... unedifying.

Mainly things are going well and improving. How things shake out around the pandemic, concussion, CVC, we'll have to wait and see.

25 years ago, the top level looked almost identical on a Saturday. And I’m sorry the grounds and facilities are matched by some non league football teams. If you think this is “going well” then you’re also part of the problem.

I agree CVC may make a difference, the first thing they’ll do is try and change the league structures and try and build a sensible television deal. “Free to air” is as much an admission of current failure, real sports demand and get people paying for the product.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by piquant »

Comparing rugby to football is just delusional. There's no point whatsoever in even starting to think we can compete with football, we can grow the game but the gulf is massive, frankly we're lucky we have the profile we do.

Also what does it mean you can just 'demand' money? Demand from whom? And what if they don't want to pay?
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MrDominator
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by MrDominator »

piquant wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:59 pm The professional club game in England has only been growing since its inception, and until this season had won 4 out of the previous 5 cups in Europe. It's not exactly all doom and gloom at the top club level.
Exactly.

The pants-wetters on here are ridiculous.
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inactionman
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by inactionman »

Sopoaga offski

Joins Lyon for next season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56739637

Verdict from Wasps fans? I caught a few games over the past few seasons and showed flashes of skill but never seemed to influence a game - also wasn't sure if he was seen as 10, 15 or pine rider. Quite a disappointment given the reputation and promise, all quite underwhelming. The anti Jimmy Gopperth?
Punter15
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Punter15 »

inactionman wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:58 am Sopoaga offski

Joins Lyon for next season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56739637

Verdict from Wasps fans? I caught a few games over the past few seasons and showed flashes of skill but never seemed to influence a game - also wasn't sure if he was seen as 10, 15 or pine rider. Quite a disappointment given the reputation and promise, all quite underwhelming. The anti Jimmy Gopperth?
Very disappointing and costly, not sorry to see him go. Frees up a nice chunk of wedge for a couple of better prospects/accrue it for Barbeary's next contract.
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inactionman
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by inactionman »

Punter15 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:51 am
inactionman wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:58 am Sopoaga offski

Joins Lyon for next season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56739637

Verdict from Wasps fans? I caught a few games over the past few seasons and showed flashes of skill but never seemed to influence a game - also wasn't sure if he was seen as 10, 15 or pine rider. Quite a disappointment given the reputation and promise, all quite underwhelming. The anti Jimmy Gopperth?
Very disappointing and costly, not sorry to see him go. Frees up a nice chunk of wedge for a couple of better prospects/accrue it for Barbeary's next contract.
I've wondered what it is that makes some imports really stand out and others flatter to deceive

We had Beaver down at Bath, we never really got a decent run out of him in the admittedly limited time he was there. Not his fault he was brought in around silly rumour of Dan Carter and he struggled with a hip injury, he got a fair bit of stick although you could see he was a talented player.

I thought Butch James was going to a be a car crash, the utterly abject place kicking and agricultural tackling technique aside he was first rate, and his partnership with Claassens really got us playing quality attacking rugby.

Wondering if it's something about where the team are at a point in time - imports joining teams on the way up rather than teams on the way down. Not sure.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Punter15 »

My guess would be that the styles are very different, and looking the nuts playing touch rugby in Super Rugby doesn't always translate to going down to the West country to get your head kicked in.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Magpie26 »

inactionman wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:58 am Sopoaga offski

Joins Lyon for next season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56739637

Verdict from Wasps fans? I caught a few games over the past few seasons and showed flashes of skill but never seemed to influence a game - also wasn't sure if he was seen as 10, 15 or pine rider. Quite a disappointment given the reputation and promise, all quite underwhelming. The anti Jimmy Gopperth?
Only saw him live a couple of times but I think you pretty much hit it on the head with the question of him being a 10, 15 or pine rider, I really don't think the Wasps management knew how to get the best out of him....but he was not the only one.
He could be very good at times and personally I liked him at 15 better than 10 but he was never consistent enough.
Faster more open games typically suited him, so I had decent hopes for him.
Once upon a time Wasps actually played like that :(
ChipSpike
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ChipSpike »

MrDominator wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:40 pm
piquant wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:59 pm The professional club game in England has only been growing since its inception, and until this season had won 4 out of the previous 5 cups in Europe. It's not exactly all doom and gloom at the top club level.
Exactly.

The pants-wetters on here are ridiculous.
I don't know, I played for 25 years but never supported a club other than the one I played for. Now I struggle to get interested in the premiership. Always supported England though and want to watch those games, plus I will watch champions cup games. I would not care if the professional game died out.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Punter15 »

ChipSpike wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:39 pm
MrDominator wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:40 pm
piquant wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:59 pm The professional club game in England has only been growing since its inception, and until this season had won 4 out of the previous 5 cups in Europe. It's not exactly all doom and gloom at the top club level.
Exactly.

The pants-wetters on here are ridiculous.
I don't know, I played for 25 years but never supported a club other than the one I played for. Now I struggle to get interested in the premiership. Always supported England though and want to watch those games, plus I will watch champions cup games. I would not care if the professional game died out.
Wouldn't be much of an England left to watch if that happened, nor would the clubs qualify for the Championship. You'd be left watching the Welsh. Urgh.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

Hassle Collins is pretty good.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Magpie26 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:55 pm
inactionman wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:58 am Sopoaga offski

Joins Lyon for next season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56739637

Verdict from Wasps fans? I caught a few games over the past few seasons and showed flashes of skill but never seemed to influence a game - also wasn't sure if he was seen as 10, 15 or pine rider. Quite a disappointment given the reputation and promise, all quite underwhelming. The anti Jimmy Gopperth?
Only saw him live a couple of times but I think you pretty much hit it on the head with the question of him being a 10, 15 or pine rider, I really don't think the Wasps management knew how to get the best out of him....but he was not the only one.
He could be very good at times and personally I liked him at 15 better than 10 but he was never consistent enough.
Faster more open games typically suited him, so I had decent hopes for him.
Once upon a time Wasps actually played like that :(
They’ve had a result offloading him! Only played because he was a big salary. Shocking player,
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

Exeter clubbing Wasps to death.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

mr flaps wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:14 pm Exeter clubbing Wasps to death.
Robson not great in patches, Umaga predictably shite.

Watching on my phone, in the beer garden- it’s like Ibiza out here today.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by 45jumper »

Massive win for Sale - a man down for an hour and edged out Glaws 25-22. :thumbup:
Seriously good try from Reed and Tom Curry was immense. Also, who knew Yarde was such a brilliant kick-chaser?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Dobbin »

Umaga's passing has to be the worst of any 10 in the Prem. Wasps had no chance once they were playing into the wind as they just don't have the game to make territory ball in hand.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Briz cut loose there for a couple of tries.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Mick Mannock »

Bristol are great to watch
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fatcat
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by fatcat »

DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:23 pm
mr flaps wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:14 pm Exeter clubbing Wasps to death.
Robson not great in patches, Umaga predictably shite.

Watching on my phone, in the beer garden- it’s like Ibiza out here today.
12°C and smells a little of sewage?
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

fatcat wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:24 am
DragsterDriver wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:23 pm
mr flaps wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:14 pm Exeter clubbing Wasps to death.
Robson not great in patches, Umaga predictably shite.

Watching on my phone, in the beer garden- it’s like Ibiza out here today.
12°C and smells a little of sewage?
That’s just me.
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Dobbin
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Dobbin »

Right, I'm officially fed up with Luke use-it-a-nanosecond-after-the-tackle Pearce now.

Decent enough first 20 between Bath and Tigers though
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Dobbin
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Dobbin »

Bath doing their best to throw it away. They've squandered a lot of opportunities in that first half.
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Dobbin
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Dobbin »

Bath sneak it. Ballsy kick from Spencer at the end. Pearce nearly fucks up by deciding possession at the breakdown with 20 seconds to go isn't advantage enough.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Bath with no scrum, absolute liability.

Wonder what Eddie hates so much about Spencer?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Magpie26 »

You watch Genge in that form and you think he has got to be in the England setup.

You watch him in the England setup and you think he should be nowhere near the England setup.
The guy is an enigma no doubt.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Magpie26 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:51 pm You watch Genge in that form and you think he has got to be in the England setup.

You watch him in the England setup and you think he should be nowhere near the England setup.
The guy is an enigma no doubt.
Flat track bully. You don’t get to run sideways building up a head of steam at that level.
mr flaps
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by mr flaps »

DragsterDriver wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:04 pm
Magpie26 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:51 pm You watch Genge in that form and you think he has got to be in the England setup.

You watch him in the England setup and you think he should be nowhere near the England setup.
The guy is an enigma no doubt.
Flat track bully. You don’t get to run sideways building up a head of steam at that level.

I think he’ll come good at international level. As will Jonny Hill.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

mr flaps wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:25 pm
DragsterDriver wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:04 pm
Magpie26 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:51 pm You watch Genge in that form and you think he has got to be in the England setup.

You watch him in the England setup and you think he should be nowhere near the England setup.
The guy is an enigma no doubt.
Flat track bully. You don’t get to run sideways building up a head of steam at that level.

I think he’ll come good at international level. As will Jonny Hill.
We’re not great for props at the moment.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by openclashXX »

mr flaps wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:25 pm I think he’ll come good at international level. As will Jonny Hill.
Jonny Hill has nothing to offer at international level. Big lump but not athletic, not a big tackler, isn't a lineout caller, only good for conceding a penalty or two when the pressure is on. We have much better options
Magpie26
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Magpie26 »

DragsterDriver wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:04 pm
Magpie26 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:51 pm You watch Genge in that form and you think he has got to be in the England setup.

You watch him in the England setup and you think he should be nowhere near the England setup.
The guy is an enigma no doubt.
Flat track bully. You don’t get to run sideways building up a head of steam at that level.
Some truth to that for sure but he is fairly quick, can break tackles and has surprisingly good hands. Just mentally doesn't seem to be there a lot of the time.
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inactionman
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by inactionman »

Bath made hard work of that, although still not entirely sure what some of the scrum penalties were for.

Interception pass aside, Ford very impressive, both passing and tactical kicking. Really wish his dad could have kept it in his trousers.
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