**OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

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Keith
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Keith »

Eddie saying he'll pick 6 locks next time :lol:
tc27
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by tc27 »

Ireland looked bad cause they lost virtually every contact situation and our defence was somewhere near its annoying best.

Yeah we are horribly vulnerable if outmuscled but thats not going to change.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by paddywack »

DragsterDriver wrote:If opposition packs dig in we’re screwed. Again, flattering stuff from Ireland.
Ireland were surprisingly poor today
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45jumper
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by 45jumper »

I feel like we aren't talking enough about Itoje tackling and stripping the ball in the same motion - that was pure poetry.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

Dobbin wrote:A good but strangely disappointing win.
This basically. I didn't expect much from Ireland after they were thrashed twice in this fixture last year, and after the first half not getting a bonus point seems like a failure - and to some extent it is.

England put on a huge amount of pressure but they weren't clinical at all, two tries came from inexcusable Irish errors. Who is coaching the backs now, Amor? Team was not ruthless enough, reminiscent of the World Cup final, I have no faith in Youngs making the right choice or even being spatially aware when England are on the opposition line, and what's with the outside backs kicking it away or cross-field kicking when the ball goes out wide, even when there's a man over? Kruis even tried it early on, numbskull.

If Sexton had remembered his kicking boots then Ireland were in the game, despite having no right to be. A win is a win, but it almost feels like a point dropped as much as 4 gained. This exchange sums up my overriding feeling:
TheFrog wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:England left that bonus point behind.

They put their feet up after the 3rd try.

You never know final weekend , that could come back to bite
That was my thought too... felt shamelessly relieved for France... :blush:
Hopefully they're wrong but fear they may be right.
Last edited by Rugby2023 on Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:52 pm, edited 5 times in total.
tc27
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by tc27 »

45jumper wrote:I feel like we aren't talking enough about Itoje tackling and stripping the ball in the same motion - that was pure poetry.
Itoje is back to somewhere near his best.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

tc27 wrote:Ireland looked bad cause they lost virtually every contact situation and our defence was somewhere near its annoying best.

Yeah we are horribly vulnerable if outmuscled but thats not going to change.
England should be putting teams away with that kind of physical dominance. If NZ had that kind of field-position and front-foot ball they'd have had the BP sewn up by half-time. Frustrating to watch.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Joost »

tc27 wrote:Ireland looked bad cause they lost virtually every contact situation and our defence was somewhere near its annoying best.

Yeah we are horribly vulnerable if outmuscled but thats not going to change.
Tbf most teams are in for a pasting if they consistently lose the contact situation!

Watching Underhill and Itoje hunt down Ireland’s midfield and Tuilagi absolutely tw@ting Stander in the first half was brilliant. Curry was pretty quiet for once.
Last edited by Joost on Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ChipSpike »

Youngs had a better game today, but he needs to break more. There was a massive gap in the first half, he just seems not to use it an option. Him and Ford used to attack the gain together, they just dont do that anymore.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

ChipSpike wrote:Youngs had a better game today, but he needs to break more. There was a massive gap in the first half, he just seems not to use it an option. Him and Ford used to attack the gain together, they just dont do that anymore.
Young’s is probably slower than both hookers.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

England head coach Eddie Jones speaking to the BBC: "I thought they were outstanding in that first 40 minutes, we put Ireland to the sword. They were going to do this, going to that... We played really well and we know they're a good team so had to play well to beat them.

"The Six Nations is a different sort of rugby. People want to see this floaty, long-passing game but it's just not like that, the conditions don't make it like that and the intensity of the rivalries, it's a different type of game.

"I thought we played well in Scotland, any time you beat Scotland at Murrayfield, you've got to play well because they're a tough team. The wind was strong and the rain was strong and we dominated that game as we dominated today.

"They're a good team, this England team, and any time we have a small mishap it's the end of the world, the whole world's falling in. The players get a lot of criticism, and I'm really proud of what they did.

"[The Wales game] is going to be fantastic. Wales have got a new coach, they're playing a little different as we've seen and we're looking forward to hosting them here. There will be 81,000 waiting for them. We'll welcome them coming down the... M40 is it? M4!
“We played with a lot of control, we read the conditions well, read the referee well,” said Jones post-match.

“At half time, if it was a cricket game it could have been declared.”

“We have been building up. I got the preparation wrong for the France game and apologised for that. We were good against Scotland, really good against Scotland in difficult conditions, and then we took another step up today and we’ll take another step up when we played Wales.”

Regarding the widespread questioning of his selections, Jones was in sarcastic form.

“We’re going to go for six locks next week to give you something to write about.

“I don’t need vindication. I pick the team I think is right for the week and some of you guys [the media] are so clever. You’re all clever, so I’ve just got to suck it all up, enjoy what you say and try to learn from you. Maybe I can pick a better team next week.”

“There’s a lot more to come,” said Jones. “We played tough in the first 40 today, probably took our foot off a little bit in the second half but they were always going to get some ball and get some referee’s calls.

“We had to defend, which we did pretty well. We’re disappointed to give the try away at the end so we’ll need to be better against Wales.”
Last edited by Rugby2023 on Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Wendigo7 »

:lol: A quipe a second.
tc27
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by tc27 »

ChipSpike wrote:Youngs had a better game today, but he needs to break more. There was a massive gap in the first half, he just seems not to use it an option. Him and Ford used to attack the gain together, they just dont do that anymore.
I think I saw what you mentioned..he really needed to go for it.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Margin_Walker »

Odd game. Never looked like losing and dominated the collisions throughout, but still looked blunt out wide and feel we left the TBP out there.

Some of the Irish clearouts were right on the edge. Faz needs to wind it in with the moaning at the ref. Especially when he's in the wrong (not that it matters)
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by eldanielfire »

45jumper wrote:I feel like we aren't talking enough about Itoje tackling and stripping the ball in the same motion - that was pure poetry.
Agreed! It was pure sex.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by eldanielfire »

Rugby2023 wrote:
tc27 wrote:Ireland looked bad cause they lost virtually every contact situation and our defence was somewhere near its annoying best.

Yeah we are horribly vulnerable if outmuscled but thats not going to change.
England should be putting teams away with that kind of physical dominance. If NZ had that kind of field-position and front-foot ball they'd have had the BP sewn up by half-time. Frustrating to watch.
I cant disagree. Even last year, England weren't ahead by much at the half.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ChipSpike »

EJ's selection doesn't look too bad now. Lawes, Daly, JJ, Curry,all looked good.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by paddywack »

eldanielfire wrote:
45jumper wrote:I feel like we aren't talking enough about Itoje tackling and stripping the ball in the same motion - that was pure poetry.
Agreed! It was pure sex.
It was glorious to watch
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Keith
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Keith »

Controversial viewpoint...

Daly is not a natural 15, but at the moment he's out best bet and should be kept there
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by JM2K6 »

Counter-point: no.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by sockwithaticket »

ChipSpike wrote:EJ's selection doesn't look too bad now. Lawes, Daly, JJ, Curry,all looked good.
They're all very, very good players and can make the most of being selected out of position. That doesn't mean it's the best way to play them or something we should be doing as a matter of course.

With a ref who allows a messier breakdown, being down a specialist backrower could have been more of a problem. Lawes isn't as quick as basically all of out back row options and speed to the breakdown is hugely important.

Daly benefits from being the least worst option at fullback with Watson injured and Brown now firmly out of the frame.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Petros »

45jumper wrote:Lawes man of the match?! :lol:
He's had a good game, but come on.
From watching live I thought Ford was the most likely
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by forrester »

Keith wrote:Controversial viewpoint...

Daly is not a natural 15, but at the moment he's out best bet and should be kept there
Until Watson is fit you’re probably right, needs to go back on the wing then though.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

Keith wrote:Controversial viewpoint...

Daly is not a natural 15, but at the moment he's out best bet and should be kept there
JM2K6 wrote:Counter-point: no.
:lol:

Depends for how long Keith meant, Daly might be the best full-back choice for the last two tests of the tournament.
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Keith
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Keith »

JM2K6 wrote:Counter-point: no.
Constructive. Who else? I don't think Furbank is ready. Is Watson near to fitness?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Joost »

Reckon Watson will get the 15 shirt if he manages to get fit again this 6N. Daly looked better today than he did in the first two games, but still looks a way off of his best.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ChipSpike »

sockwithaticket wrote:
ChipSpike wrote:EJ's selection doesn't look too bad now. Lawes, Daly, JJ, Curry,all looked good.
They're all very, very good players and can make the most of being selected out of position. That doesn't mean it's the best way to play them or something we should be doing as a matter of course.

With a ref who allows a messier breakdown, being down a specialist backrower could have been more of a problem. Lawes isn't as quick as basically all of out back row options and speed to the breakdown is hugely important.

Daly benefits from being the least worst option at fullback with Watson injured and Brown now firmly out of the frame.
I've noticed the the refs are not allowing people to jackal very much this 6N. Has anyone else seen this, or is it just me? That could have fed into the thinking of playing Lawes.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by JM2K6 »

Keith wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:Counter-point: no.
Constructive. Who else? I don't think Furbank is ready. Is Watson near to fitness?
I wasn't really going for constructive tbh

We should stick with Furbank. I also think it's too soon for him but there's a chance he'll grow into the role. I prefer Daly on the wing and he's a disaster waiting to happen at 15.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

I'd stick with Furbank too fwiw. I don't think Daly was that much better today than Furbank v Scotland in more difficult conditions.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by RodneyRegis »

JM2K6 wrote:Alright, early stats check.

Elliot "best I've seen in ages" Daly: 21m made, 3 turnovers conceded. Didn't miss a tackle though!

Farrell: 7 carries for 3 metres, 14 tackles made + 4 missed

Itoje: 18 tackles and 1 miss

May: 2 penalties conceded & 2 turnovers conceded


Apart from the tackle stats being racked up the stats look pretty poor, no-one making more than 40m with ball in hand (May) and 202m made in the entire match tells a story. It's no surprise we struggled to actually score that bonus point try. Second half we had 24% possession and 21% territory :uhoh:

Some things worked great, obviously, and that fast start helped us a lot. We need more to our game though, jeez.
Daly is getting the benefit of starting from such a dreadful baseline performance.

If he could Catch that would've been a rout. But infinitely better than usual since he took a couple of high balls.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by croyals »

Watching back - my real highlight of the game is Murray stopping to point out Maro to the ref, Maro adjusting then charging the kick down anyway :lol: :lol:

When Maro is on top form he is an absolute force of nature in defence - it allowed us to build the game around that.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Gospel »

I am not really sure how to rank the performance because Ireland were muck with all the physicality of a wet lettuce. Eddie's special selections went well all things considered. Not a scooby when it comes to the Wales game in a fortnight though I've a notion we will need to be considerably better for longer as the taffs do love a comeback.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by croyals »

Gospel wrote:I am not really sure how to rank the performance because Ireland were muck with all the physicality of a wet lettuce. Eddie's special selections went well all things considered. Not a scooby when it comes to the Wales game in a fortnight though I've a notion we will need to be considerably better for longer as the taffs do love a comeback.
Ireland were poor but our defence was up with them so quickly and gave them no space to think, a lot of their mistakes were induced by us. A very impressive first half and a second half that I suspect was about exorcising Scottish demons.

Satisfying win and Eddie strikes again. Roll on the Welsh
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Lord Denning »

Can anyone give an informed view on Genge?

Is he as good as Woodward claims, and is he a genuine nutcase like he’s seemed in the last two games?

He looks like a liability to me.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by JM2K6 »

He's very good and he's clearly a bit of a nutcase, very early Sinckler.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by tc27 »

Munch teams in contact and they look shit..it happened to us in the final
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Madness »

JM2K6 wrote:He's very good and he's clearly a bit of a nutcase, very early Sinckler.

Bit of a nutcase but lacks the stupidity of early Sinckler with off the ball stuff. I think Genge has a good disciplinary record, but ready to be proved wrong.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ovalball »

Still worries me that, with all that dominance, we still relied on a couple of lucky bounces and a pushover try. After that 1st half we should have pulled away in the 2nd half but there was precious little from our backs and we failed to create any overlaps out wide. And our Backrow didn't link too well with the backs to help them be more effective.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Saint »

ovalball wrote:Still worries me that, with all that dominance, we still relied on a couple of lucky bounces and a pushover try. After that 1st half we should have pulled away in the 2nd half but there was precious little from our backs and we failed to create any overlaps out wide. And our Backrow didn't link too well with the backs to help them be more effective.
I'm not sure you can judge the effectiveness of our back row link play when Youngs is playing at SH
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Madness »

The win was a bit like a one night stand, enjoyable at the time but afterwards you feel a little strange and not sure what to really think about the whole experience!

Do worry that simply bullying Ireland into mistakes has given Eddie carte blanche to pick as much random shit as possible. If we can do that to Ireland with that team what would we have done with a proper back row (Lawes was good today), with all players playing in their best positions.
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