**OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

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Monk Zombie
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Monk Zombie »

ovalball wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:52 pm
Petros wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:48 pm
YOYO wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:39 pm Kyle Sinckler “are you fuçking serious” screaming at the ref. What a bollox reaction. Not helping his rep.

https://twitter.com/andygoode10/status/ ... 17792?s=21
Cited for it, minimum ban is 2 weeks
Deserves all he gets. Surprised he was cited though - ref clearly heard it and spoke to him, didn't even award a penalty.
never did get the Sinckler hype anyhow
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fatcat
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by fatcat »

Good scrummager, good tackler, great hands and link play. I'm not sure if that's been hyped but if you don't think he's a good player then I'd suggest you've not seen much of him.
Monk Zombie
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Monk Zombie »

not saying he is crap but the fallout from his WC final injury was absurd
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ovalball »

Monk Zombie wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:51 pm not saying he is crap but the fallout from his WC final injury was absurd
Possibly - but there was a big gulf between him and his replacement.

Even though he's not been at his best in recent months, he still has a big impact on the games he plays. Almost certain to be a Lions starter.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Monk Zombie »

ovalball wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:29 pm
Monk Zombie wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:51 pm not saying he is crap but the fallout from his WC final injury was absurd
Possibly - but there was a big gulf between him and his replacement.

Even though he's not been at his best in recent months, he still has a big impact on the games he plays. Almost certain to be a Lions starter.
he will have to work hard on his scrummaging
ovalball
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ovalball »

Monk Zombie wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:37 pm
ovalball wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:29 pm
Monk Zombie wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:51 pm not saying he is crap but the fallout from his WC final injury was absurd
Possibly - but there was a big gulf between him and his replacement.

Even though he's not been at his best in recent months, he still has a big impact on the games he plays. Almost certain to be a Lions starter.
he will have to work hard on his scrummaging
He's an excellent scrummager - so he probably does work hard on it.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Anonymous 1 »

He is a very good player and I must admit I think those tackles by nature are dangerous and you cannot launch and wrap so the attempt to is pointless. However they are for some strange reason allowed. I don't think he will ever be able to curb that part of his temperament.
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SaintK
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

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Anonymous 1 wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:54 pm He is a very good player and I must admit I think those tackles by nature are dangerous and you cannot launch and wrap so the attempt to is pointless. However they are for some strange reason allowed. I don't think he will ever be able to curb that part of his temperament.
Considering what a stroppy so and so he was a few seasons ago he's doing pretty well
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

He’s a good player, not the player he was 18 months ago maybe? Doesn’t seem to be getting the ‘involvements’- carries, first receiver passes etc. That may be my perception though rather than the stats backing it up.
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SaintK
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by SaintK »

Champions Cup and Challenge Cup postponed! Reckon they should knock it on the head this year and concentrate on trying to finish the respective league comps
European rugby organisers have confirmed that the Heineken Champions Cup and Challenge Cups have been temporarily suspended.
It comes after the French government decreed its clubs should not play in the competitions this month.
As a result, European Professional Club Rugby (EPCR) says it had "no choice" but to postpone all matches scheduled for the weekends of 16 and 23 January.
However, EPCR aims to resume the tournaments "as soon as practicable".
Tournament chiefs hope two rounds of Heineken Champions Cup and Challenge Cup pool games on the weekends of 15-17 and 22-24 can go ahead at a later date as authorities deal with the impact of a new strain of Covid-19.
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Dobbin
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Dobbin »

Hopefully they'll play prem matches in the next two weeks in that case.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Won’t even miss the heino tbh- hopefully get the East Midlands derby played :nod:
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fatcat
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by fatcat »

Surely they won't mess around with the prem calendar?
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

fatcat wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:35 pm Surely they won't mess around with the prem calendar?
Think they’re keen to fill the weekends?
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fatcat
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by fatcat »

With what, games yet to play? I doubt BT will be on board.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

fatcat wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:42 pm With what, games yet to play? I doubt BT will be on board.
They’ve announced a two week break. Lazy fückers!
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fatcat
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by fatcat »

Well hopefully they can spend the time getting covid-free and stop calling off sodding games!
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SaintK
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by SaintK »

fatcat wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:55 pm Well hopefully they can spend the time getting covid-free and stop calling off sodding games!
Yep hope so!
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Dobbin
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Dobbin »

Oh well. Let's just have loads of matches during the 6 Nations then.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

fatcat wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:55 pm Well hopefully they can spend the time getting covid-free and stop calling off sodding games!
They’ll probably test more positives, I’m not crediting many bros with a brain. Especially Exeter who are mostly covid deniers.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Dobbin wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:15 pm Oh well. Let's just have loads of matches during the 6 Nations then.
6 nations won’t happen.


So where did cipriani end up or has he retired? Sounding like he left a right stink at Glaws in the end.
ovalball
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by ovalball »

DragsterDriver wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:21 pm He’s a good player, not the player he was 18 months ago maybe? Doesn’t seem to be getting the ‘involvements’- carries, first receiver passes etc. That may be my perception though rather than the stats backing it up.
I agree - he's not quite been hitting the heights he managed previously - still makes a big impact but his big point of difference, handling, passing and carrying, has not been what it was. Hopefully he'll find that sort of form again, soon.
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message #2527204
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by message #2527204 »

DragsterDriver wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:17 pm
Dobbin wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:15 pm Oh well. Let's just have loads of matches during the 6 Nations then.
6 nations won’t happen.


So where did cipriani end up or has he retired? Sounding like he left a right stink at Glaws in the end.
Think he's doing a Henson and 'taking a break'
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inactionman
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by inactionman »

Sinckler gets a 2 week ban.
So he misses the 6N opener (if it's a 2 week ban why does it expire on 9 Feb BTW? Does ban start from next possible match or somesuch?) which probably won't happen anyway.
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SaintK
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by SaintK »

inactionman wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:51 pm Sinckler gets a 2 week ban.
So he misses the 6N opener (if it's a 2 week ban why does it expire on 9 Feb BTW? Does ban start from next possible match or somesuch?) which probably won't happen anyway.
Sounds about right.
No matches for next two weeks so I guess they've calculated it from there
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

It struck me that World Rugby cancelling the awards for Covid probably cost Eddie Jones another World Rugby coach of the year award and possibly Mario Itoje his for his first World Rugby player of the year award.
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maverickmak
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by maverickmak »

Leicester get a nice mid-season bonus, as Julian Montoya joins with immediate effect, as his Western Force deal falls through.

Seems likely Tom Youngs will retire at the end of the season.
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Jim Lahey
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Jim Lahey »

maverickmak wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:32 pm Leicester get a nice mid-season bonus, as Julian Montoya joins with immediate effect, as his Western Force deal falls through.

Seems likely Tom Youngs will retire at the end of the season.
Nice one, he’s a quality player.
Whatever happened to the production line of nasty big bastard forwards coming out of Leicester at a ridiculous rate during the 90s/00s?
Ulster are facing a similar issue whereby production has completely ceased in the last decade and we are now living of scraps that Leinster have chucked away.
I just don’t get how teams go from producing players for fun to not. Its not like Leicester’s/Ulster’s catchment area has changed, or rugby has suddenly become unfashionable for kids to play.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

I think the game changed and the youth coaches are still looking at outdated models of player. Croft was the prototype modern player but a complete enigma at Tigers- If he came through now at another club he’d be a superstar not a seagull.
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eldanielfire
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by eldanielfire »

DragsterDriver wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:59 am I think the game changed and the youth coaches are still looking at outdated models of player. Croft was the prototype modern player but a complete enigma at Tigers- If he came through now at another club he’d be a superstar not a seagull.
Squidge did a good analysis on them in one video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJGx_tIhmy8

Basically Leicester did some over corrections to the changes in the modern game to their forward oriented play. They freeked out and tried to force the club to make changes that didn't suit, then got went after quick fix, after quick fix after quick fix.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by 4071 »

Jim Lahey wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:43 am
maverickmak wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:32 pm Leicester get a nice mid-season bonus, as Julian Montoya joins with immediate effect, as his Western Force deal falls through.

Seems likely Tom Youngs will retire at the end of the season.
Nice one, he’s a quality player.
Whatever happened to the production line of nasty big bastard forwards coming out of Leicester at a ridiculous rate during the 90s/00s?
Ulster are facing a similar issue whereby production has completely ceased in the last decade and we are now living of scraps that Leinster have chucked away.
I just don’t get how teams go from producing players for fun to not. Its not like Leicester’s/Ulster’s catchment area has changed, or rugby has suddenly become unfashionable for kids to play.
It's more that Leicester went through a long period of not actively developing players. If they weren't immediately ready for first team rugby then they ended up spending long periods of their development on the fringes not getting gametime. And then being released at the age of 22 or so, having played just a handful of first team matches.

A few young former Tigers have started coming back to the club after leaving and developing at other clubs - Charlie Clare, Ryan Bower, Callum Green - but generally the Tigers approach had been to develop international-level age grade players, and then abandon them so that they never reach their potential.
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4071
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by 4071 »

eldanielfire wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:38 am
DragsterDriver wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:59 am I think the game changed and the youth coaches are still looking at outdated models of player. Croft was the prototype modern player but a complete enigma at Tigers- If he came through now at another club he’d be a superstar not a seagull.
Squidge did a good analysis on them in one video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJGx_tIhmy8

Basically Leicester did some over corrections to the changes in the modern game to their forward oriented play. They freeked out and tried to force the club to make changes that didn't suit, then got went after quick fix, after quick fix after quick fix.
The bit that he's spot on about is the squad depth. Tigers used to have stars come in, and a squad that was bolstered by guys who were Tigers through and through. The club produced its fair share of top class players, sure, but it also produced a ton of players who were good enough to play first team rugby. Not top class internationals, but good solid players who could be relied upon and who were loyal to the club having been brought through the system and developed.

The problem with Cockerill was his refusal to develop players - he insisted on recruiting second string players from outside the club because they were more experienced. So Tigers were forking out the wages for a bloody good first XV, but then also paying over the odds to recruit a solid second XV of journeymen, who would stick around a season or two before moving on. That kind of churn is hugely disruptive on its own, but it also sends a message to the players coming through the academy - the club will recruit from outside for a season rather than give you an opportunity.

Tigers insisted on recruiting guys like Pat Phibbs and Jeremy Staunton so they didn't have to play guys like Scott Steele (currently at Quins) and Billy Twelvetrees (England international and long-time Gloucester captain). The outstanding Hamish Watson was a Tiger academy product. I think he played 1-2 first team games. During his time we did recruit the likes of Wessel Jooste and Michael Noone to add to the squad depth and play a few games. Just so we didn't have to rely on the academy boys.

One result, of course, is that if you don't develop the squad players, then when the classy academy players come through then they also think about leaving the club for opportunities elsewhere. Wasps starlets Jacob Umaga and Paolo Odogwu were both Tigers Academy products for example.
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maverickmak
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by maverickmak »

Thankfully, Tigers do seem to be bringing through talent again. As they should, with the academy team being very successful in recent years.
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SaintK
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by SaintK »

maverickmak wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:30 pm Thankfully, Tigers do seem to be bringing through talent again. As they should, with the academy team being very successful in recent years.
Maybe partly due to Dusty Hare going back to Tigers as their chief talent spotter?
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by 4071 »

maverickmak wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:30 pm Thankfully, Tigers do seem to be bringing through talent again. As they should, with the academy team being very successful in recent years.
The one major benefit of our dreadful last season, but with Sarries relegated before the season started. Pressure off and the chance to get guys in the team. I wonder if Freddie Steward would have had a look-in a few seasons back.

That's on top of the return of ex-Tigers, like the three guys I mentioned earlier, to get back that homegrown club feel.

We are still shit - and financially a bit screwed due to our reliance on rugby for income - but I like the ideas when it comes to the squad. And in a season or two I hope that we keep it up (and perhaps have slightly fewer SH imports).
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message #2527204
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by message #2527204 »

Delighted that Alex Sanderson is coming home as DoR.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

message #2527204 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:46 pm Delighted that Alex Sanderson is coming home as DoR.
Should be a great signing.
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SaintK
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

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DragsterDriver wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:36 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:46 pm Delighted that Alex Sanderson is coming home as DoR.
Should be a great signing.
Best signing they've made in a long time (Faf apart)
First match in charge against Borthwick's Tigers on 30th :thumbup:
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DragsterDriver
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

I just watched Mako on house of rugby- it was pretty funny but as you never see him talk much I hadn’t realised he is proper welsh.
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Re: **OFFICIAL** English Rugby Thread

Post by Fruit and Nutt »

message #2527204 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:46 pm Delighted that Alex Sanderson is coming home as DoR.

He's been at Saracens for 16 years ffs.
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