The Australian Politics Thread

All things Rugby

Whos Going to Lead the Labor Rabble

Albo
7
35%
Plibbers
1
5%
Bowen
1
5%
Chalmers
4
20%
Uncle Tony
1
5%
Clive Palmer
3
15%
George Smith
3
15%
 
Total votes: 20

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kiap
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by kiap »

Brumbie_Steve wrote:Heard that a couple of the Chinese airlines are sniffing around virgin. That will be a real test for the libs if there is a takeover offer put up.
  • Queensland offers $200 million Virgin airlines bailout
    By Toby Crockford: SMH

    The Queensland government is offering to put $200 million towards a national package to save national carrier Virgin Australia from falling victim to the novel coronavirus downturn.

    However, the support is conditional on federal government backing, debt restructuring, shareholder and bondholder support, ongoing regional flights and the airline's headquarters staying in Brisbane.

    State Development Minister Cameron Dick has put the onus on the federal government and other states to follow Queensland's lead and support the airline.

    “Queensland has given Australia both our national airlines – we won’t let them go, or let thousands of families watch their jobs go, without a fight,” he says.“But we can’t do it alone, and nor should we ... We need the Australian Government to lead a national effort to keep our two great airlines flying.

    “We also want to keep the air fair. We know that it can cost up to 25 per cent more to fly on single carrier routes, and we want to avoid that at all costs, when we emerge from this crisis."
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

shanky wrote:
So, the PM of Australia is responsible for NSW Health?
It is increasingly becoming clear that Dutton's Border Farce were the culprits... so yes.
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MungoMan
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by MungoMan »

wamberal99 wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
I don't understand Australians, ScoMo really is as thick as shit. A big stinking log. Not his fault he is stupid, maybe we didn't have any better options, but he is a reflection of Australia, old, catholic, science-skeptic, hypocrite and mentally rigid.

Far be it for me to defend Scummo. However, he attended Sydney Boys' High School, a prestigious school with an academically selective entrance which means he is certainly not "as thick as shit". He is Presbyterian by upbringing, not a Catholic. He has a science degree from UNSW.

We have done well, but we could have crushed it, with a more mentally flexible person. We are an island FFS.
Closing the borders was a pretty serious option, in terms of the economic and budgetary impact. We are facing economic consequences that could be pretty diabolical for many people for a long time. Being an island has some advantages for sure, but we will need to get used to a seriously reduced standard of living.
Ruby Princess FFS!
Let's wait until we know all the facts before we start deciding who is guilty. My guess is that there will be plenty of guilt to go around.
A while back in godnose which thread I was too quick in sheeting culpability home to the Cwth based on its quarantine and national arrivals and departures (i.e. immigration and emigration) powers. I of course forgot entirely states’ ports and health powers. :blush:

So yes, blame enough for all.
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UncleFB
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

kiap wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:Heard that a couple of the Chinese airlines are sniffing around virgin. That will be a real test for the libs if there is a takeover offer put up.
  • Queensland offers $200 million Virgin airlines bailout
    By Toby Crockford: SMH

    The Queensland government is offering to put $200 million towards a national package to save national carrier Virgin Australia from falling victim to the novel coronavirus downturn.

    However, the support is conditional on federal government backing, debt restructuring, shareholder and bondholder support, ongoing regional flights and the airline's headquarters staying in Brisbane.

    State Development Minister Cameron Dick has put the onus on the federal government and other states to follow Queensland's lead and support the airline.

    “Queensland has given Australia both our national airlines – we won’t let them go, or let thousands of families watch their jobs go, without a fight,” he says.“But we can’t do it alone, and nor should we ... We need the Australian Government to lead a national effort to keep our two great airlines flying.

    “We also want to keep the air fair. We know that it can cost up to 25 per cent more to fly on single carrier routes, and we want to avoid that at all costs, when we emerge from this crisis."
Virgin is 'a' national carrier? Weirdly, in my brain I only ever think that 1 airline is a national carrier.

Although I'm sure that Qantas is the number 1 national carrier, they'll let Virgin fail if it's too hard but not Qantas?
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kiap
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by kiap »

UncleFB wrote:Virgin is 'a' national carrier? Weirdly, in my brain I only ever think that 1 airline is a national carrier.
When nations had a government-owned airline, it was only one.

That ended 30-odd years ago. The term doesn't mean much more than a "home country airline" now.
UncleFB wrote:Although I'm sure that Qantas is the number 1 national carrier, they'll let Virgin fail if it's too hard but not Qantas?
Nah. Virgin would then become the government-owned airline ... <ahem> Chinese government owned. :nod:

If there is no bailout or loan + an enforced prohibition on a buyout then it's Monopoly time.
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UncleFB
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

kiap wrote:
UncleFB wrote:Virgin is 'a' national carrier? Weirdly, in my brain I only ever think that 1 airline is a national carrier.
When nations had a government-owned airline, it was only one.

That ended 30-odd years ago. The term doesn't mean much more than a "home country airline" now.
UncleFB wrote:Although I'm sure that Qantas is the number 1 national carrier, they'll let Virgin fail if it's too hard but not Qantas?
Nah. Virgin would then become the government-owned airline ... <ahem> Chinese government owned. :nod:

If there is no bailout or loan + an enforced prohibition on a buyout then it's Monopoly time.
My brain is clearly stuck 30 years ago ... although the NZ govt had to buy back Air NZ after private ownership tanked it so maybe that was ruminating in my head.

As an aside I prefer to fly Virgin any day of the week over Qantas so hopefully the Oz (or Chinese) govt doesn't let them fail.
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

Virgin is preferable to me also.

Luckily, I used up all my FF points in March!

If they go under, prices will go up more than 25%
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6.Jones
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by 6.Jones »

The Optimist wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
shanky wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:We can all agree, Scomo is no leader. Dutton ditto.
You might 'agree'. But some 80% of the population apparently don't.
He's showed leadership in this crisis, once he got his pants on. Much better than the fires. This time he was allowed to believe in the science.
I don't understand Australians, ScoMo really is as thick as shit. A big stinking log. Not his fault he is stupid, maybe we didn't have any better options, but he is a reflection of Australia, old, catholic, science-skeptic, hypocrite and mentally rigid. We have done well, but we could have crushed it, with a more mentally flexible person. We are an island FFS.

Ruby Princess FFS!
You're drawing a long bow to blame the Ruby Princess on Scomo. And yes, we're an island, but an island with four million international air journeys a year, and modern viruses travel by air. Even an island has to react. We were faster than most.
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Brumbie_Steve
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Brumbie_Steve »

UncleFB wrote:
kiap wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:Heard that a couple of the Chinese airlines are sniffing around virgin. That will be a real test for the libs if there is a takeover offer put up.
  • Queensland offers $200 million Virgin airlines bailout
    By Toby Crockford: SMH

    The Queensland government is offering to put $200 million towards a national package to save national carrier Virgin Australia from falling victim to the novel coronavirus downturn.

    However, the support is conditional on federal government backing, debt restructuring, shareholder and bondholder support, ongoing regional flights and the airline's headquarters staying in Brisbane.

    State Development Minister Cameron Dick has put the onus on the federal government and other states to follow Queensland's lead and support the airline.

    “Queensland has given Australia both our national airlines – we won’t let them go, or let thousands of families watch their jobs go, without a fight,” he says.“But we can’t do it alone, and nor should we ... We need the Australian Government to lead a national effort to keep our two great airlines flying.

    “We also want to keep the air fair. We know that it can cost up to 25 per cent more to fly on single carrier routes, and we want to avoid that at all costs, when we emerge from this crisis."
Virgin is 'a' national carrier? Weirdly, in my brain I only ever think that 1 airline is a national carrier.

Although I'm sure that Qantas is the number 1 national carrier, they'll let Virgin fail if it's too hard but not Qantas?
Qantas is etched into the National psyche, if that fails there would be consequences beyond just a company going bust.
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wamberal99
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by wamberal99 »

Brumbie_Steve wrote: Qantas is etched into the National psyche, if that fails there would be consequences beyond just a company going bust.

My neighbour is a Qantas pilot. Three or four months ago he was told that he would be relocating to Perth early next year as part of the flight crew contingent for the planned direct Perth-London route.

He has now been stood down indefinitely. He is very pessimistic about the future for the airline industry, cannot see a return to normal in the forseeable future.
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sonic_attack
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by sonic_attack »

I'm reminded I have to ring Qantas to enquire about the $2500NZD in ticket holds I have. :lol:

If the customer services woman bursts into laughter and says' Hahaha get f**ked" I'll probably just laugh with her.
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

"Leadership":
Politicians including Barnaby Joyce are refusing to use the official COVID-19 contact tracing app, while Liberal MPs are demanding data privacy guarantees, as the government tries to convince Australians the software is key to the nation's coronavirus recovery.

The wariness from Coalition MPs highlights the challenge facing the Morrison government as it seeks to assuage concerns, ruling out the possibility of the phone-based tracing software being mandatory and promising technical details will be available for public scrutiny.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 54l1k.html

Barnyard is obviously worried about his Tinder data
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wamberal99
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by wamberal99 »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote:"Leadership":
Politicians including Barnaby Joyce are refusing to use the official COVID-19 contact tracing app,

I am a bit ashamed to admit that I would be quite happy for this loon to be struck down with the pestilence.
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

Sadly, he is elected in the same way that Trump is...
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The Optimist
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by The Optimist »

“The Australian government currently hands out billions of dollars in taxpayer-funded subsidies to corporations. The fossil fuel industry receives some of the biggest subsidies, with $12 billion going to coal, oil and gas companies last year.

“The reason this figure is larger than any other industry is not because of this industry’s size. It’s because the industry is failing.”


Think about it. These multi-nationals, with decades of profits, these rich shits, Gina Rinehart, are being subsidised with the publics money.
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Brumbie_Steve
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Brumbie_Steve »

sonic_attack wrote:I'm reminded I have to ring Qantas to enquire about the $2500NZD in ticket holds I have. :lol:

If the customer services woman bursts into laughter and says' Hahaha get f**ked" I'll probably just laugh with her.
I have $5,000 AUD in Virgin flight credits that I'm not going to bother ringing anyone about.
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

Brumbie_Steve wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:I'm reminded I have to ring Qantas to enquire about the $2500NZD in ticket holds I have. :lol:

If the customer services woman bursts into laughter and says' Hahaha get f**ked" I'll probably just laugh with her.
I have $5,000 AUD in Virgin flight credits that I'm not going to bother ringing anyone about.
I used up all my points upgrading to premium economy to the US last month :nod:
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wamberal99
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by wamberal99 »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
I used up all my points upgrading to premium economy to the US last month :nod:

I redeemed our points for some very nice wine. Then again, I renewed our Golden Wing membership a couple of weeks before Ansett went tits up. Still rankles. :x
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Taranaki Snapper
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Taranaki Snapper »

Anyone else see Andrew Hastie's petition on FB today? He wants to stop China reshaping the global order...yeah, that should do it...
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Farva
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Farva »

6.Jones wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
shanky wrote:
Sensible Stephen wrote:We can all agree, Scomo is no leader. Dutton ditto.
You might 'agree'. But some 80% of the population apparently don't.
He's showed leadership in this crisis, once he got his pants on. Much better than the fires. This time he was allowed to believe in the science.
I don't understand Australians, ScoMo really is as thick as shit. A big stinking log. Not his fault he is stupid, maybe we didn't have any better options, but he is a reflection of Australia, old, catholic, science-skeptic, hypocrite and mentally rigid. We have done well, but we could have crushed it, with a more mentally flexible person. We are an island FFS.

Ruby Princess FFS!
You're drawing a long bow to blame the Ruby Princess on Scomo. And yes, we're an island, but an island with four million international air journeys a year, and modern viruses travel by air. Even an island has to react. We were faster than most.
I have been very impressed with the government in how they have dealt with the Covid crisis. The speed at which we reacted has meant Australia will be comparatively untouched (when compared to what could have happened).
And the stimulus package has been on point. It will no doubt save a significant depression.
No doubt the future will be tough but we are seeing some real leadership for the first time in a long time.
And the opposition is being incredibly mature as well.

ScoMo's ideology still disgusts me (bringing a lump of coal to parliament to make an ideological point, and his disruption of the gay marriage debate will not be forgotten). But he has led well in this issue, made the right decisions and has been supported by both his party and the opposition.
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Bindi
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Bindi »

Farva wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
6.Jones wrote: You might 'agree'. But some 80% of the population apparently don't.
He's showed leadership in this crisis, once he got his pants on. Much better than the fires. This time he was allowed to believe in the science.
I don't understand Australians, ScoMo really is as thick as shit. A big stinking log. Not his fault he is stupid, maybe we didn't have any better options, but he is a reflection of Australia, old, catholic, science-skeptic, hypocrite and mentally rigid. We have done well, but we could have crushed it, with a more mentally flexible person. We are an island FFS.

Ruby Princess FFS!
You're drawing a long bow to blame the Ruby Princess on Scomo. And yes, we're an island, but an island with four million international air journeys a year, and modern viruses travel by air. Even an island has to react. We were faster than most.
I have been very impressed with the government in how they have dealt with the Covid crisis. The speed at which we reacted has meant Australia will be comparatively untouched (when compared to what could have happened).
And the stimulus package has been on point. It will no doubt save a significant depression.
No doubt the future will be tough but we are seeing some real leadership for the first time in a long time.
And the opposition is being incredibly mature as well.

ScoMo's ideology still disgusts me (bringing a lump of coal to parliament to make an ideological point, and his disruption of the gay marriage debate will not be forgotten). But he has led well in this issue, made the right decisions and has been supported by both his party and the opposition.
The clusterfuck that was his bushfire management served as good training, it seems. At least he’s demonstrated he can learn, which is a good sign in a leader. Big contrast to Trump.
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Brumbie_Steve
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Brumbie_Steve »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
Brumbie_Steve wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:I'm reminded I have to ring Qantas to enquire about the $2500NZD in ticket holds I have. :lol:

If the customer services woman bursts into laughter and says' Hahaha get f**ked" I'll probably just laugh with her.
I have $5,000 AUD in Virgin flight credits that I'm not going to bother ringing anyone about.
I used up all my points upgrading to premium economy to the US last month :nod:
I've got 100,000 points as well. I lost 430,000 points when Ansett went tits up and that still pisses me off. I worked with a guy who had been saving his points for a big familt holiday and had enough for 5 first class return flights to London. He lost over a million points.
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Sensible Stephen
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Sensible Stephen »

Farva wrote:
I have been very impressed with the government in how they have dealt with the Covid crisis. The speed at which we reacted has meant Australia will be comparatively untouched (when compared to what could have happened).
And the stimulus package has been on point. It will no doubt save a significant depression.
No doubt the future will be tough but we are seeing some real leadership for the first time in a long time.
And the opposition is being incredibly mature as well.

ScoMo's ideology still disgusts me (bringing a lump of coal to parliament to make an ideological point, and his disruption of the gay marriage debate will not be forgotten). But he has led well in this issue, made the right decisions and has been supported by both his party and the opposition.
Yeah. Theres been some mis-steps, communication and collaboration with the states has been lacking at times, also some confusing messaging at the start of it all. But pretty good on the whole. And we have basically achieved the same results and NZ without closing the economy down as much.

I would put us above NZ, similar results while still keeping more of the economy ticking over.

I'd give the government a solid B+.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

Farva wrote:I have been very impressed with the government in how they have dealt with the Covid crisis. The speed at which we reacted has meant Australia will be comparatively untouched (when compared to what could have happened).
And the stimulus package has been on point. It will no doubt save a significant depression.
No doubt the future will be tough but we are seeing some real leadership for the first time in a long time.
And the opposition is being incredibly mature as well.

ScoMo's ideology still disgusts me (bringing a lump of coal to parliament to make an ideological point, and his disruption of the gay marriage debate will not be forgotten). But he has led well in this issue, made the right decisions and has been supported by both his party and the opposition.
From my perspective the State Premiers have done the vast majority of the leading. They have made all the tough calls and unpopular decisions, and even had to contend with mixed/contradictory messages from the Feds.

Not sure about Job Keeper being "on point" either. Far too many workers are ineligible, it's taking far too long for money to start moving into peoiple's pockets and it's very open to being rorted by employers. Time will tell I guess.

Meanwhile ScMo's senior advisers are openly breaking the law distributing pirated books and he's completely oblivious.
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shanky
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by shanky »

One can only imagine how things might have been under Potato and Bowen

CoronaTax, anyone?
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Bindi »

shanky wrote:One can only imagine how things might have been under Potato and Bowen

CoronaTax, anyone?
Dutton and Bowen?
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Sensible Stephen
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Sensible Stephen »

Bindi wrote:
shanky wrote:One can only imagine how things might have been under Potato and Bowen

CoronaTax, anyone?
Dutton and Bowen?
Dutto is the prime potato.

Shorten is the baked potato
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Farva »

Dutto has swung to the left anyway.
https://www.betootaadvocate.com/breakin ... -about-5g/

Bit harsh on Shorten and Bowen. The carbon tax for example was excellent policy and Abbott removing it was vandalism. Equally Labor’s response to the GFC was excellent. And I would expect them to employ similar measures if they were in power now.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Vuaka »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote:I think the States have been excellent. They are leading

I wonder if there will be stories of him sulking at the National Cabinet meetings.
I agree. The States have really taken the lead on this.

I do worry about Gladys B though as it always appears that she is trying to please the master that is Scott M. See bush fires assistance requests and see re-opening of NSW schools in week 2 of term 2.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Vuaka »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Farva wrote:I have been very impressed with the government in how they have dealt with the Covid crisis. The speed at which we reacted has meant Australia will be comparatively untouched (when compared to what could have happened).
And the stimulus package has been on point. It will no doubt save a significant depression.
No doubt the future will be tough but we are seeing some real leadership for the first time in a long time.
And the opposition is being incredibly mature as well.

ScoMo's ideology still disgusts me (bringing a lump of coal to parliament to make an ideological point, and his disruption of the gay marriage debate will not be forgotten). But he has led well in this issue, made the right decisions and has been supported by both his party and the opposition.
From my perspective the State Premiers have done the vast majority of the leading. They have made all the tough calls and unpopular decisions, and even had to contend with mixed/contradictory messages from the Feds.

Not sure about Job Keeper being "on point" either. Far too many workers are ineligible, it's taking far too long for money to start moving into peoiple's pockets and it's very open to being rorted by employers. Time will tell I guess.

Meanwhile ScMo's senior advisers are openly breaking the law distributing pirated books and he's completely oblivious.
From the perspective of an employer in relation to JK, what is supposed to be a simple programme to implement is becoming a fecking nightmare. The admin around this plus the fact that money will not flow for at least 6 weeks means huge cashflow mismatches. The ATOs systems and responsiveness are shit at the best of times. Right now, it's a mess..
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Vuaka »

While I think that Morrison has done better with COVID compared to his clusterfuck during the bush fires, he has still failed in a number of areas.

Setting aside the Ruby Princess blame game for now, there was inconsistent closing of borders to countries with high risk... Closed Borders to Iran and South Korea but left them open to Italy and the USA (Fear of offending Trump and Hillsong influenced?).

Plus the communication to the public has been pretty poor. Press conferences held but with messages that conflicted with the State Premiers. Just trying to work out if kids should or should not go to school was hard enough. Surely if they are all in the same National Cabinet, the messaging would be consistent. Then all the Coronavirus adverts came out some 2 months after the initial cases. Comparatively, the boots on the ground bush fire ads came out overnight to promote the LNP brand...

I rate him a C.
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6.Jones
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by 6.Jones »

I've been thinking about this great big debt and I'm struggling to see why we don't just write it all off. Mint a trillion dollar coin. Or generate a trillion dollars of central bank credit at zero interest, and forget it.

The usual argument is that it'd be inflationary [and a majority of economists would say so] but in an economy where all the excess money was spent on lost production, rather than sloshing around in the system to buy things, would it be? What if the swivel eyed loons are right? If ever there was a time to find out if MME is right, this is our chance. Of course you can't just magic up that amount of quantitative easing whenever you want, but these are unusual circumstances.

What if this idea gained currency [sic] in the population? That we never have to pay back money borrowed by governments in this kind of crisis. Would it gain traction? Free money? Fcuk yes. That kind of talk wins elections.
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kiap
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by kiap »

6.Jones wrote:The usual argument is that it'd be inflationary [and a majority of economists would say so] but in an economy where all the excess money was spent on lost production, rather than sloshing around in the system to buy things, would it be?
We might need a big gust of inflationary pressure.

Jobs, profits, stocks heading earthward, oil dipping below zero, double-digit unemployment: means there's a worry about DEflation ...
6.Jones wrote:What if the swivel eyed loons are right? If ever there was a time to find out if MME is right, this is our chance. Of course you can't just magic up that amount of quantitative easing whenever you want, but these are unusual circumstances.
Did Silver put out out a primer on this MME business for the bored that you could executively summarise? :D

(A lot of threads on here I just never bothered opening, after a while...)
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The Optimist
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by The Optimist »

Australia is taking advantage of historically low fuel prices around the world by spending $94 million to establish a strategic fuel reserve, but there’s a catch — it won’t be stored in Australia...

“Initially, that reserve will be held in the United States, where there is spare storage. We have full storages here in Australia. But in time, we are exploring opportunities with the industry to establish local storage.

“We are moving with the storage we can access, which right now is in the United States.


Fvck me! What could go wrong? What are the chances of a global crisis happening so large that it affects Australia but not America? America would say fvck off Australia we need it, here is the money at 2020 prices. Better to store it in Australia.
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wamberal99
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by wamberal99 »

He did say that the intention is to store it here.
Last edited by wamberal99 on Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kiwinoz
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by kiwinoz »

The Optimist wrote:
Australia is taking advantage of historically low fuel prices around the world by spending $94 million to establish a strategic fuel reserve, but there’s a catch — it won’t be stored in Australia...

“Initially, that reserve will be held in the United States, where there is spare storage. We have full storages here in Australia. But in time, we are exploring opportunities with the industry to establish local storage.

“We are moving with the storage we can access, which right now is in the United States.


Fvck me! What could go wrong? What are the chances of a global crisis happening so large that it affects Australia but not America? America would say fvck off Australia we need it, here is the money at 2020 prices. Better to store it in Australia.

Maaate!!! ScoMo's mate in the US Arthur said he has a shed out the back he is not using and if his cousin can get out the car body out of the way and clears out the crap in there we can store the barrels there. Of course there will be storage fees but whats a few mill between mates?
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6.Jones
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by 6.Jones »

kiap wrote:
6.Jones wrote:The usual argument is that it'd be inflationary [and a majority of economists would say so] but in an economy where all the excess money was spent on lost production, rather than sloshing around in the system to buy things, would it be?
We might need a big gust of inflationary pressure.

Jobs, profits, stocks heading earthward, oil dipping below zero, double-digit unemployment: means there's a worry about DEflation ...
6.Jones wrote:What if the swivel eyed loons are right? If ever there was a time to find out if MME is right, this is our chance. Of course you can't just magic up that amount of quantitative easing whenever you want, but these are unusual circumstances.
Did Silver put out out a primer on this MME business for the bored that you could executively summarise? :D

(A lot of threads on here I just never bothered opening, after a while...)
I sat at the feet of Silver. I can write a primer. :-)

Simplistically, MME says central bank money behaves fundamentally differently to regular money, as long as it stays in the control of the central bank. Most importantly, it can't have an inflationary effect. Thus, if the central bank creates money in the form of central bank credit, which the government then spends directly on goods and services, that's alright. But if the central bank pushes that money into the real economy as credit [for example by selling bonds to pay back the loan it made to itself, or worse, borrowed to fund] then that can be inflationary, because that new money competes for goods and services with the money already in the system, so each bit of money's worth less.

Like an island with five coconuts, and five women to spend them on. Adding a new coconut doesn't create a new woman, so each coconut is worth less. As long as the government doesn't spend its coconut on women, but roads, there's no inflationary effect.

It's the logical extension of the idea that money is credit, and everyone magicks it up, which is true. Silver got a lot of flack for that, but on that narrow point he was right. Retail banks magic up money all the time in the form of commercial bank credit, with the aim of making it disappear when it's repaid. There's a concept called the money multiplier intended to control this but it never worked, because most banks simply use credit as collateral, which means old credit can be used to make new credit, like making Kombucha in your bath.

That means there's much too much money in the world, but that's another story. Personally, I think the cause of all our financial problems is the vast excess of money in comparison with all the goods and services in the world, and the emergence of a newly wealthy group of developing nations forcing it into circulation because of their wealth. Or to put it another way, no more simply stealing their shit.

But if the MME mavens are right, we can solve our debt problem with a pen. Surely it's worth trying, once?

What can go wrong? Apart from Venezuela style hyperinflation?
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kiap
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by kiap »

6.Jones wrote:I sat at the feet of Silver. I can write a primer. :-)
:o Thanks, 6roucho,

I think I sorta followed the gist of that. Maybe.

So, we're in need of some magicked jiggery pokery, Silver stylee? :shock: :frown: :uhoh:
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6.Jones
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by 6.Jones »

kiap wrote:
6.Jones wrote:I sat at the feet of Silver. I can write a primer. :-)
:o Thanks, 6roucho,

I think I sorta followed the gist of that. Maybe.

So, we're in need of some magicked jiggery pokery, Silver stylee? :shock: :frown: :uhoh:
Someone needs to drop a billion dollar coin on the steps of parliament, in a nice ribbon.

Or the Reserve Bank needs to create a billion dollars in central bank credit and loan it to the government at zero interest, on the following terms:

To be spent.
No loaning it on.
No using it to fund tax breaks.
Anything not spent to be returned upon the economy returning to growth.
At which time the loan gets written off.

The big question is the deficit. Can it be used to fund the deficit [by paying back the part of the deficit that's external debt]? I don't know.
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6.Jones
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by 6.Jones »

The other point is, how would external markets react? Would they write down our dollar, because there are more dollars? Maybe not, since what the tactic arguably does is ensure there are the same number of dollars as there would have been, absent the virus, and the money is all being spent in Australia.

Maybe that's why we cant use it to repay the deficit, because that would push the play money out to foreign lenders, and the market would write down our currency.
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