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Whos Going to Lead the Labor Rabble
Albo 36%  36%  [ 5 ]
Plibbers 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Bowen 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Chalmers 29%  29%  [ 4 ]
Uncle Tony 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Clive Palmer 14%  14%  [ 2 ]
George Smith 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 14
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 2:40 am 
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Slim 293 wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
Crazy Ed wrote:
The country is in safe hands with compulsory voting.

I'll go down and shake hands with Peter Dutton tomorrow to try and ensure that the Bob Hawke sympathy vote doesn't overwhelm the country and rob me of my inheritance via taxation.


Good on you. The desperate attacks on him from the Left are typified by Paul Keating, who weighed in to say he hopes the Electorate will plunge a long, long dagger into the dark, dark heart of Peter Dutton. Apart from indicating that Paulus has been watching too much Game of Thrones in his retirement, the many references to 'meanness' seem to be references to him stopping the boats (thank god), closing offshore processing centres (good riddance), and saying at the last Election that national security is our biggest issue (it still is) - we live in an age when it's regarded as criminal to say what you see, as Izzy, found out in answering a question when he said what is in the Old Testament, rather than pretend he couldn't see it, didn't know about it, or didn't care about it, or denying it. Denial is all the rage now.



You either need to explain what “criminal” process Folau went through, or admit that you’re a lying dumb sack of shit...

So, which is it?


I used the word 'criminal as a euphemism for the treatment Folau has been subjected to, because there are people in sport who have committed criminal offences repeatedly, and are still running around in their codes, whereas he has done nothing wrong and been discarded - he is being treated as 'worse than criminal'. He himself has said the hate campaign waged against him has made him feel 'like a killer.' It's ridiculous when that can ensue from someone being questioned on a religious belief and responding honestly.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 2:42 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
If you read the policies of One Nation and the Conservative National Party they are actually pretty good. Both Parties have their downsides, not the ones you mentioned. ON marked by infighting and rogue members and Annings Party by some unfortunately Neo-Nazi hangers on, though perhaps just as well for protection given he has made some pretty brave remarks (the one about Christchurch was NOT one of those). They have both got one great thing going for them that puts them above Labor and the Greens, who have got nothing going for them, and form their policy to please uninformed groups who make the biggest noise. The great thing is that both their leaders have had the courage to say Muslim immigration has to stop - the most obvious priority for democratic countries for the last 20 years, and yet one that the major parties are too afraid to say publicly. As England, France and all European countries who have significant ongoing Muslim immigration have shown, it leads to escalating deterioration of society and a constant threat to public safety. Those 2 people are actually heroes in that respect - they are taking a stand because Australia is at a crossroads where inaction will inevitably lead to disaster, and anyone who doesn't see that from the worldwide pattern is either a dolt, a hypocrite, or has a vested interest it happening, which is particularly sinister.

And as for pointing and laughing, you can do it as much as you like, but you'd better stand in front of a mirror first. That goes for the rest of the ALP Branch of Planet Rugby whose contribution to this Election Forum has stood out for it's nastiness and self-congratulatory remarks: Kharma


Go f**k your own face, dickhead. Anning and Hansen are humam-scum, and anyone who supports them or their policies deserves to be treated with contempt. They aren't brave they are racist.


Time for another look in the mirror.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 2:42 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Just flicked over to Sky News where Rita Panahi was lecturing the ALP for trying to "scare people" during the campaign. Are these people living in an alernate rightwing universe. Even the most loyal Scott Morrison supporter would have to concede that he ran the most effective scare campaign in moderan Australian political history. And UAP spent $70 million on scare ads. To lecture the ALP on running a scare campaig really is unbelievable.


2 points:
The most effective scare campaign in modern history was run by the ALP under Mediscare where people complain of receiving texts that looked like Medicare bulletins. To be clear, it was wrong and dishonest when the ALP did it and the Libs adopting AEC colors on billboards advising Chinese voters in Chisholm how to vote is wrong also.
Both sides have used dirty tactics when it suits and neither are clean

Two, if Clive Palmer spent shitloads (and he did) are we completely ignoring Getup! And there electioneering for the Greens and ALP. Getup! Are aligned on the same issues as broadly Palmer was with the Libs.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 3:11 am 
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mightyreds wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
If you read the policies of One Nation and the Conservative National Party they are actually pretty good. Both Parties have their downsides, not the ones you mentioned. ON marked by infighting and rogue members and Annings Party by some unfortunately Neo-Nazi hangers on, though perhaps just as well for protection given he has made some pretty brave remarks (the one about Christchurch was NOT one of those). They have both got one great thing going for them that puts them above Labor and the Greens, who have got nothing going for them, and form their policy to please uninformed groups who make the biggest noise. The great thing is that both their leaders have had the courage to say Muslim immigration has to stop - the most obvious priority for democratic countries for the last 20 years, and yet one that the major parties are too afraid to say publicly. As England, France and all European countries who have significant ongoing Muslim immigration have shown, it leads to escalating deterioration of society and a constant threat to public safety. Those 2 people are actually heroes in that respect - they are taking a stand because Australia is at a crossroads where inaction will inevitably lead to disaster, and anyone who doesn't see that from the worldwide pattern is either a dolt, a hypocrite, or has a vested interest it happening, which is particularly sinister.

And as for pointing and laughing, you can do it as much as you like, but you'd better stand in front of a mirror first. That goes for the rest of the ALP Branch of Planet Rugby whose contribution to this Election Forum has stood out for it's nastiness and self-congratulatory remarks: Kharma


Go f**k your own face, dickhead. Anning and Hansen are humam-scum, and anyone who supports them or their policies deserves to be treated with contempt. They aren't brave they are racist.


Time for another look in the mirror.


A few pages back you acknowledged that you were a lying sack of shit...

Please add slow witted xenophobe to that moniker.

:thumbup:


Last edited by Slim 293 on Sun May 19, 2019 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 3:12 am 
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749a wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
Crazy Ed wrote:
The country is in safe hands with compulsory voting.

I'll go down and shake hands with Peter Dutton tomorrow to try and ensure that the Bob Hawke sympathy vote doesn't overwhelm the country and rob me of my inheritance via taxation.


Good on you. The desperate attacks on him from the Left are typified by Paul Keating, who weighed in to say he hopes the Electorate will plunge a long, long dagger into the dark, dark heart of Peter Dutton. Apart from indicating that Paulus has been watching too much Game of Thrones in his retirement, the many references to 'meanness' seem to be references to him stopping the boats (thank god), closing offshore processing centres (good riddance), and saying at the last Election that national security is our biggest issue (it still is) - we live in an age when it's regarded as criminal to say what you see, as Izzy, found out in answering a question when he said what is in the Old Testament, rather than pretend he couldn't see it, didn't know about it, or didn't care about it, or denying it. Denial is all the rage now.

Corinthian is in the New Testament :lol:


Yes, an error, but the epistle to the Corinthians was written by Paul, who took his teachings directly from the Old Testament, so it is virtually a comment from the Old Testament; Paul was quoting of what was there. Jesus is never reported, through the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, to have said anything about eternal damnation for homosexuals, but fundamentalist Christianity put equal weight on all the books of the Bible, not just Jesus' teachings.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 3:21 am 
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mightyreds wrote:
749a wrote:
mightyreds wrote:
Crazy Ed wrote:
The country is in safe hands with compulsory voting.

I'll go down and shake hands with Peter Dutton tomorrow to try and ensure that the Bob Hawke sympathy vote doesn't overwhelm the country and rob me of my inheritance via taxation.


Good on you. The desperate attacks on him from the Left are typified by Paul Keating, who weighed in to say he hopes the Electorate will plunge a long, long dagger into the dark, dark heart of Peter Dutton. Apart from indicating that Paulus has been watching too much Game of Thrones in his retirement, the many references to 'meanness' seem to be references to him stopping the boats (thank god), closing offshore processing centres (good riddance), and saying at the last Election that national security is our biggest issue (it still is) - we live in an age when it's regarded as criminal to say what you see, as Izzy, found out in answering a question when he said what is in the Old Testament, rather than pretend he couldn't see it, didn't know about it, or didn't care about it, or denying it. Denial is all the rage now.

Corinthian is in the New Testament :lol:


Yes, an error, but the epistle to the Corinthians was written by Paul, who took his teachings directly from the Old Testament, so it is virtually a comment from the Old Testament; Paul was quoting of what was there. Jesus is never reported, through the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, to have said anything about eternal damnation for homosexuals, but fundamentalist Christianity put equal weight on all the books of the Bible, not just Jesus' teachings.


Jesus who even reads this bullshit, seriously who gives a fudge


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 3:42 am 
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Mightyreds, you say that you support the policy that Fraser Anning and Pauline Hanson have put forward of stopping Muslim immigration to Australia and suggest that this is the biggest issue for Australia.
I have some questions.
Given the royal commission found 7% of all priests have been accused of child abuse, why do you feel Muslims are more dangerous than Catholics?

There are around 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. Does the ban exist for all of them? For example if SBW wanta to immigrate would he be blocked? What hapoens if he converts to Christianity, comes here then converts back? Is that OK?


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 4:02 am 
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swc wrote:
I addressed that in another post. But yeah ignore it if you want. Bottom line is I come out of this financially fine, yey! Am I happy no. But yeah tax cuts woohoo all good. Seriously this is all this govt has.

By the way people on high income brackets don’t spend their tax breaks, we save them. Business don’t invest their tax breaks they pay them back in dividends and share buy backs which do fudge all for the economy. But yeah I get to bank some more money woohoo, I might even go for an investment property - choice. Life is good. Looking forward to seeing more homeless in the cbd and Nth Sydney :thumbup:



The same, I come out ahead but believe it's not necessary.

I see people on Facebook talking about Death Taxes 100% media fed.

Franking credits affect hardly anyone

It will end up like Brexit, where the people who vote for them will end up suffering in the long term.

< 1000 jobs at Adani will look great when the Tourists stop coming to the Reef which will affect many thousands more..


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 4:07 am 
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Farva wrote:
Mightyreds, you say that you support the policy that Fraser Anning and Pauline Hanson have put forward of stopping Muslim immigration to Australia and suggest that this is the biggest issue for Australia.
I have some questions.
Given the royal commission found 7% of all priests have been accused of child abuse, why do you feel Muslims are more dangerous than Catholics?

There are around 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. Does the ban exist for all of them? For example if SBW wanta to immigrate would he be blocked? What hapoens if he converts to Christianity, comes here then converts back? Is that OK?



Don’t bother Farva.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 4:09 am 
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rett wrote:
Farva wrote:
Mightyreds, you say that you support the policy that Fraser Anning and Pauline Hanson have put forward of stopping Muslim immigration to Australia and suggest that this is the biggest issue for Australia.
I have some questions.
Given the royal commission found 7% of all priests have been accused of child abuse, why do you feel Muslims are more dangerous than Catholics?

There are around 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. Does the ban exist for all of them? For example if SBW wanta to immigrate would he be blocked? What hapoens if he converts to Christianity, comes here then converts back? Is that OK?



Don’t bother Farva.


He has a view, and it is a growing view in Australia.
I want to understand it.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 7:10 am 
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Farva wrote:
rett wrote:
Farva wrote:
Mightyreds, you say that you support the policy that Fraser Anning and Pauline Hanson have put forward of stopping Muslim immigration to Australia and suggest that this is the biggest issue for Australia.
I have some questions.
Given the royal commission found 7% of all priests have been accused of child abuse, why do you feel Muslims are more dangerous than Catholics?

There are around 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. Does the ban exist for all of them? For example if SBW wanta to immigrate would he be blocked? What hapoens if he converts to Christianity, comes here then converts back? Is that OK?



Don’t bother Farva.


He has a view, and it is a growing view in Australia.
I want to understand it.


One of the main reasons you can't argue with retards is because of their persistent use of fallacies. Basically, they don't understand logical reasoning (which is also why they don't get science).


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 7:47 am 
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Go easy with the insults, mate, we do not need them. Calling somebody a "retard" is pretty vile.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:32 am 
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Farva wrote:
rett wrote:
Farva wrote:
Mightyreds, you say that you support the policy that Fraser Anning and Pauline Hanson have put forward of stopping Muslim immigration to Australia and suggest that this is the biggest issue for Australia.
I have some questions.
Given the royal commission found 7% of all priests have been accused of child abuse, why do you feel Muslims are more dangerous than Catholics?

There are around 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. Does the ban exist for all of them? For example if SBW wanta to immigrate would he be blocked? What hapoens if he converts to Christianity, comes here then converts back? Is that OK?



Don’t bother Farva.


He has a view, and it is a growing view in Australia.
I want to understand it.


I don’t really want to get drawn into this as I don’t have an interest in either camp.
What part of the growing view do you not understand?


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:33 am 
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freewheelan wrote:
Farva wrote:

He has a view, and it is a growing view in Australia.
I want to understand it.


One of the main reasons you can't argue with retards is because of their persistent use of fallacies. Basically, they don't understand logical reasoning (which is also why they don't get science).


Farva's point is a good one. This POV needs to be understood. Calling people retards isn't going to win any arguments nor is it going to win someone over to your way of thinking. The common element in the crowing from those 'on the right' as many like to say, from the Trump supporters through Brexit and here now, is that the 'elitists' on the left are out of touch.

The evidence suggests the last part is right. I mentioned earlier, that the ALP and Greens seemed to be too reliant on the idea that policy would sell. Both have reasonable policies and in Labor's case particularly, were offering at least a better tax deal for the majority... but they failed because the Libs sold the idea they tax heavily, along with whatever else they could scare people with.

'The Left' need to understand this... they are losing the misinformation war. 'The Right' know how to manipulate the market.

this is not about 'retards not understanding'... if it was, then 'the Left' is the retard. Antagonising your voting base through some sort of moral superiority is a one way ticket to fail town.

The task now for the progressive side of politics is learning how to win the ugly punch up with your opponent first up to gain attention, then actually sell the policy they're carrying... not just present it. They need to play dirty just as their opponents are... but abusing the base isn't going to do that.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:39 am 
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swc wrote:
Quite amazing after the last 6 yrs of shit sandwich we’ve had, the electorate has gone back for 3 more :?

Unemployment up last week, no wage growth, economic growth completely anemic, dollar down the toilet. Inflation in deflation and rba held off on a cut purely because of in mid election and these plum still get voted in. Just bizarre


Labor and Shorten couldn't show they'd be better. Sad indictment. We all need both sides to be better than they are.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:44 am 
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Harveys wrote:
Farva wrote:
rett wrote:
Farva wrote:
Mightyreds, you say that you support the policy that Fraser Anning and Pauline Hanson have put forward of stopping Muslim immigration to Australia and suggest that this is the biggest issue for Australia.
I have some questions.
Given the royal commission found 7% of all priests have been accused of child abuse, why do you feel Muslims are more dangerous than Catholics?

There are around 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. Does the ban exist for all of them? For example if SBW wanta to immigrate would he be blocked? What hapoens if he converts to Christianity, comes here then converts back? Is that OK?



Don’t bother Farva.


He has a view, and it is a growing view in Australia.
I want to understand it.


I don’t really want to get drawn into this as I don’t have an interest in either camp.
What part of the growing view do you not understand?

Why do people hold it?


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 9:11 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
freewheelan wrote:
Farva wrote:

He has a view, and it is a growing view in Australia.
I want to understand it.


One of the main reasons you can't argue with retards is because of their persistent use of fallacies. Basically, they don't understand logical reasoning (which is also why they don't get science).


Farva's point is a good one. This POV needs to be understood. Calling people retards isn't going to win any arguments nor is it going to win someone over to your way of thinking. The common element in the crowing from those 'on the right' as many like to say, from the Trump supporters through Brexit and here now, is that the 'elitists' on the left are out of touch.

The evidence suggests the last part is right. I mentioned earlier, that the ALP and Greens seemed to be too reliant on the idea that policy would sell. Both have reasonable policies and in Labor's case particularly, were offering at least a better tax deal for the majority... but they failed because the Libs sold the idea they tax heavily, along with whatever else they could scare people with.

'The Left' need to understand this... they are losing the misinformation war. 'The Right' know how to manipulate the market.

this is not about 'retards not understanding'... if it was, then 'the Left' is the retard. Antagonising your voting base through some sort of moral superiority is a one way ticket to fail town.

The task now for the progressive side of politics is learning how to win the ugly punch up with your opponent first up to gain attention, then actually sell the policy they're carrying... not just present it. They need to play dirty just as their opponents are... but abusing the base isn't going to do that.


Eh? Mightreds is a troll.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 9:22 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
freewheelan wrote:
Farva wrote:

He has a view, and it is a growing view in Australia.
I want to understand it.


One of the main reasons you can't argue with retards is because of their persistent use of fallacies. Basically, they don't understand logical reasoning (which is also why they don't get science).


Farva's point is a good one. This POV needs to be understood. Calling people retards isn't going to win any arguments nor is it going to win someone over to your way of thinking. The common element in the crowing from those 'on the right' as many like to say, from the Trump supporters through Brexit and here now, is that the 'elitists' on the left are out of touch.

The evidence suggests the last part is right. I mentioned earlier, that the ALP and Greens seemed to be too reliant on the idea that policy would sell. Both have reasonable policies and in Labor's case particularly, were offering at least a better tax deal for the majority... but they failed because the Libs sold the idea they tax heavily, along with whatever else they could scare people with.

'The Left' need to understand this... they are losing the misinformation war. 'The Right' know how to manipulate the market.

this is not about 'retards not understanding'... if it was, then 'the Left' is the retard. Antagonising your voting base through some sort of moral superiority is a one way ticket to fail town.

The task now for the progressive side of politics is learning how to win the ugly punch up with your opponent first up to gain attention, then actually sell the policy they're carrying... not just present it. They need to play dirty just as their opponents are... but abusing the base isn't going to do that.


:thumbup: Good post.

What people sometimes miss is these "retards" or "undesirables" are usually working or low middle class, struggling to make ends meet. Closing down coal mines because of climate change will cost them everything, in their minds at least. You have to do something to help these people, beyond "learn to code" if you want to win their votes.

Its not all racism and xenophobia.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 9:26 am 
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It is ironic that this workforce has rejected a socialist policy when subsidising their jobs, which may well be obsolete, is the price of victory for a right wing government.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 9:53 am 
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Farva wrote:
Harveys wrote:
Farva wrote:
rett wrote:
Farva wrote:
Mightyreds, you say that you support the policy that Fraser Anning and Pauline Hanson have put forward of stopping Muslim immigration to Australia and suggest that this is the biggest issue for Australia.
I have some questions.
Given the royal commission found 7% of all priests have been accused of child abuse, why do you feel Muslims are more dangerous than Catholics?

There are around 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. Does the ban exist for all of them? For example if SBW wanta to immigrate would he be blocked? What hapoens if he converts to Christianity, comes here then converts back? Is that OK?



Don’t bother Farva.


He has a view, and it is a growing view in Australia.
I want to understand it.


I don’t really want to get drawn into this as I don’t have an interest in either camp.
What part of the growing view do you not understand?

Why do people hold it?



Full disclosure to try to mitigate the shit that is bound to be thrown my way.

I am not, I repeat, I am NOT a Christian, in any way shape or form. I practise secular Vippassana, enjoy hot yoga and participate in AA, if that makes me a bit of a wanker, so be it. The reason I mention I am in AA is because it is a truly inclusive society, we have it all & you learn to live with it all. I’m no Christian apologist, their book has some wacky shit in it and they as an institution have committed unforgivable atrocities. I don’t however, conveniently fail to acknowledge the positive impacts they have on society and people.

That said, this is how things could look to some people.

Australian culture & society is built on and grounded in judeo-Christian values, we may be a somewhat secular country but the values are underpinning.

I think part of the Izzy issue being so divisive is because in some people at least it creates a confliction, obviously it’s wrong to condemn vulnerable minority groups but at the same time there is this strange sense of instability in the underlying values that make up our society.

Make no mistake, that pic of ScoMo singing in church with his hand raised (cringe) did not bother the majority of voters.

It looks like there are a few issues people may feel concernd about.

The left is very critical of Christianity (this forum will do for a good enough example) however criticism of Islam quickly gets you labelled an Islamophobe. The reaction to the NZ shooting & the Easter bombings some say are an illustration of this.

Do you not think some people may feel the values of the society they live in could at some stage become threatened.


There are clear social issues in Europe. How do you ensure better integration here than there?

Perhaps there is a fundamental misunderstanding of Islam due to the overexposure of radical extremists?

Do you think it’s just a case of people being retarded bigots?


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 9:55 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Well, you've always been an advertisement for rational, reasoned posts in here :thumbup:

Yeah, but you post that to everyone who doesn't agree with you. :nod:
Besides that, I'm surprised you can remember what i post, as it is usually only around test time or RWC.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 10:15 am 
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Harveys, i am of the opinion that if you deny access to Australia to a fifth of the worlds population due to the religion they follow without looking at the person they are, is bigotted. That is just as true for Christians.

Islamic fundamentalists are an issue. But the Islamic bit is redundant there. It holds true for any extremist (including animal rights activits who take a violent or oppressive attitude and far right activists who do the same for example).

Australia should be judging people for who they are as a part of their apolication to come here. That might mean a larger number of Muslims are denied access to say other religious groups. However we should be making an effort to be inclusive to all who come here.

I dont believe that what Mightyreds posts do that. And he is not alone with that view. I want to know why.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 10:30 am 
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whezmabeer wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Well, you've always been an advertisement for rational, reasoned posts in here :thumbup:

Yeah, but you post that to everyone who doesn't agree with you. :nod:
Besides that, I'm surprised you can remember what i post, as it is usually only around test time or RWC.


Your version of rational and reasonable is easy to remember.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 10:48 am 
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Farva wrote:
Harveys, i am of the opinion that if you deny access to Australia to a fifth of the worlds population due to the religion they follow without looking at the person they are, is bigotted. That is just as true for Christians.

Islamic fundamentalists are an issue. But the Islamic bit is redundant there. It holds true for any extremist (including animal rights activits who take a violent or oppressive attitude and far right activists who do the same for example).

Australia should be judging people for who they are as a part of their apolication to come here. That might mean a larger number of Muslims are denied access to say other religious groups. However we should be making an effort to be inclusive to all who come here.

I dont believe that what Mightyreds posts do that. And he is not alone with that view. I want to know why.


Just to be clear I don’t support mightreds view.

I just don’t pretend to be completely ignorant as to why some may hold it.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 1:27 pm 
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What are you talking about.=? Shorten's negative gearing policy has been in place for years.




The policy he had stewing on for three years and only spat out on Friday?

Ali's Choice wrote:
Just flicked over to Sky News where Rita Panahi was lecturing the ALP for trying to "scare people" during the campaign. Are these people living in an alernate rightwing universe. Even the most loyal Scott Morrison supporter would have to concede that he ran the most effective scare campaign in moderan Australian political history. And UAP spent $70 million on scare ads. To lecture the ALP on running a scare campaig really is unbelievable.


:lol: :lol: :lol: SBS, GetUp, ABC, Bob Brown, GetUp, The Guardian, Fairfax, GetUp and a large percentage of posters on here did a good job of promoting the ALP and Green cause. A flyover instructing people not to vote for Peter Dutton really worked. Throw in Shorten's 45% non costed emissions reduction target which was well over the target set by the Paris Agreement.

The Nationals did really well considering the change in leadership and kept Rob Oakshott out of Parliament. Barnaby gained a bigger swing since his recent by election. The AEC has put up on their website that the Coalition now have a majority. The Victorians will cop on now they can keep their holiday homes in Portsea, Noosa, Mt Buller, etc without getting screwed.

Admirable for Farva to stick up for his line of work. Much like the Turnbull's supported Alex's renewables business. I find it very hard to believe that there is a place that has 100% sustainable renewables efficiency over tradition power sources to supply energy to their people. Moving to renewables cost money particularly with having to own a property to put a solar panel on and having to rely on base. Australia has the resources internally to support nuclear energy. The French went nuclear in the 70s and are still doing well off that. They export the power that they don't use and make coin out of it.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 1:36 pm 
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Some fuckwit has torched a One Nation bus in Hobart.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 4:30 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
This is not about 'retards not understanding'... if it was, then 'the Left' is the retard. Antagonising your voting base through some sort of moral superiority is a one way ticket to fail town.

Indeed. It brings to mind an Australian political quote:

    "Do you know why I have credibility? Because I don't exude morality."

guy smiley wrote:
The task now for the progressive side of politics is learning how to win the ugly punch up with your opponent first up to gain attention, then actually sell the policy they're carrying... not just present it. They need to play dirty just as their opponents are... but abusing the base isn't going to do that.

Not sure I agree about that. But they do need to sell their policy, and it has to be a saleable one.

    "... no-one is more conscious than I of our tendency to conservatism as a people, and of the need, therefore, for those who would advocate change to temper their fervour with a sense of gradualism. This constraint sits happily with me..."

    – R. J. Hawke

The earlier quote is also his. Not that this bloke was the Messiah, but he knew a thing or two about achieving reforms.

ALP really should've won this cycle. Much of the platform was okay but it ended up being a scattergun grab bag. Too many self-imposed hurdles to get over and they failed to sell these measures. Not only in Queensland, but WA and even NSW. Didn't end up gaining seats in Melbourne.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 10:09 pm 
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mdaclarke wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:
Also nobody wins votes by saying they are going to tax people more. All most people care about is how much money is in their pocket. They care about climate change, the developing world and other worthy things, but not enough to lower their standard of living. When push comes to shove what they really care about is their bank balance.


That's clear. But more people would have had a tax cut under the ALP than the Coalition. So how does that balance with your comment?

Anyway, the electorate has decided and we all now need to move on with life. As I said in a previous comment, I can now negatively gear another investment property which will be nice.


I don't live in Australia so I don't know about the campaign,


Then shut the f**k up.


I just find it interesting how it works the same in every Anglosphere country. This is a repeat of the Brexit vote, the Trump vote etc. The progressives keep making the same mistakes. They never learn.



I much agree about this. And I have some of the strongest progressive views on this forum. I'm disappointed that another, potentially forward thinking party lost another major election to a low tax support corporates government, but then, from what I've heard, I'm even more frustrated that supposed progressives just don't "get it". Across the anglosphere there is just this terrible culture of sniffing your own farts and demonising the masses who think wrong and eating their own if they aren't the purest of woke BS and intersectional PC politics instead of worrying about how the everyday person feels their needs are and their vision of the country.

I genuinely believe a pro-environmental, leaning towards social democracy, anti-corporatisation dominance, invets in education and health, left of centre government can win all these elections, if they where willing to drop say pro-immigration policies and rhetoric accepting a reduction is desirable, drop demonising anyone who doesn't fit the woke narrative and playing the offence Olympics.

Even if these are not the policies or manifesto of the election, but they are the narrative of left/liberal politics today. I guess stuff like twitter lefty activists and the mainstream left leaning media are equally, perhaps more responsible for that problem than any left or centre politic leader. It is what they are saying the voters. The world needs some sensible governments, why can't we get any?


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 10:44 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
I much agree about this. And I have some of the strongest progressive views on this forum. I'm disappointed that another, potentially forward thinking party lost another major election to a low tax support corporates government, but then, from what I've heard, I'm even more frustrated that supposed progressives just don't "get it". Across the anglosphere there is just this terrible culture of sniffing your own farts and demonising the masses who think wrong and eating their own if they aren't the purest of woke BS and intersectional PC politics instead of worrying about how the everyday person feels their needs are and their vision of the country.


You really don't understand the Australian political scene, like a few others here posting from outside... or Queensland. What you have posted there just doesn't apply.

Intersectional PC politics wasn't a factor. The Labor party offered greater tax cuts than the victors to a larger proportion of the electorate. Woke BS is what I see when I read most of your posts.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:01 pm 
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What an arrogant poop you are, Guy.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:04 pm 
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Brumby_in_Vic wrote:
Admirable for Farva to stick up for his line of work. Much like the Turnbull's supported Alex's renewables business. I find it very hard to believe that there is a place that has 100% sustainable renewables efficiency over tradition power sources to supply energy to their people. Moving to renewables cost money particularly with having to own a property to put a solar panel on and having to rely on base. Australia has the resources internally to support nuclear energy. The French went nuclear in the 70s and are still doing well off that. They export the power that they don't use and make coin out of it.

Im not advocating for rooftop.
Nuclear is not economically viable. This is a fact.
Renewables at 100% are fine when supported by storage such as pumped storage. This creates that baseload.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:06 pm 
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I spent a good chunk of Saturday night and yesterday trawling through some serious anti-QLD vibes on social media. The vast majority of spiteful musings were from left leaning types in Sydney and Melbourne who were aghast that people would vote differently to them. I'm going out on a limb here when I say many of these people have never been to regional Australia and never will.

I'm in a safe Labor seat which had a large-ish swing to the Greens. I also live in Brisbane. But the issue in regional areas (not just QLD) becomes pretty apparent when you dig in. No jobs, no future and lots of scared people. If the ALP hadn't sat on the fence, then they may have done better. What these people wanted to hear was "we know you're hurting, we'll look after you" They didn't hear that from Shorten. They sure as hell heard that from the LNP.

Bob Brown's Caravan Tour didn't help. The one thing that pisses people off in regional areas is someone waltzing into their town, telling them everything they've known is wrong, offering no solutions and then going onto the next town. I must admit, I would have hated to have been Shorten trying to get his message across while some farkwit with a STOP ADANI sign tries to muscle him off the stage.

In 3 year's time I hope the ALP have learned from this mistake. Get a strong leader (a QLDer would help) and march him north with a united message. It worked for Rudd.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:14 pm 
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wamberal99 wrote:
What an arrogant poop you are, Guy.


I've been having the odd disagreement with EDF on exactly these lines for ages. What I see from him repeatedly is diving into a discussion and presenting an opinion that doesn't fit the scenario.

I've already suggested where I think the 'left' if you like needs to change here. They're not connecting with the wider electorate and there's more than a trace of moral superiority at the root of that. After reading some FB posts from aghast acquaintances since the result, I'd go further and suggest it's snobbery on the part of many. Thomas' point about the fears of working people is bang on. Knowing that things won't get better under the winners isn't cause to scorn those who voted for them.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:20 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
wamberal99 wrote:
What an arrogant poop you are, Guy.


I've been having the odd disagreement with EDF on exactly these lines for ages. What I see from him repeatedly is diving into a discussion and presenting an opinion that doesn't fit the scenario.

I've already suggested where I think the 'left' if you like needs to change here. They're not connecting with the wider electorate and there's more than a trace of moral superiority at the root of that. After reading some FB posts from aghast acquaintances since the result, I'd go further and suggest it's snobbery on the part of many. Thomas' point about the fears of working people is bang on. Knowing that things won't get better under the winners isn't cause to scorn those who voted for them.


The phrase "better the devil you know" applies here.

The ALP didn't have a strong message. They were wishy washy on Adani and coal mining and saying "we'll weight it up if we win" doesn't cut it with a scared electorate.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:37 pm 
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A fair bit of soul-searching is called for by progressive voters and the parties which claim to represent them.

A good place to start is to recognise that the Australian electoral map is incredibly complicated these days. Whether we like it or not, simple messages cut through, particularly when they are directed at potential swinging voters in risky seats, and when a fair chunk of the electorate is not fluent in English.


Scummo's campaign was brilliant in its simplicity, highly disciplined, and perfectly executed. And it was supported by a fair bit of skullduggery. "Mediscare" payback.


The ALP is going to have to take some tough decisions, and bring some new talent into the House. People who actually have some real life working experience, not just more party hacks.


Last edited by wamberal99 on Sun May 19, 2019 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:38 pm 
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eldanielfire wrote:
mdaclarke wrote:
I just find it interesting how it works the same in every Anglosphere country. This is a repeat of the Brexit vote, the Trump vote etc. The progressives keep making the same mistakes. They never learn.



I much agree about this. And I have some of the strongest progressive views on this forum. I'm disappointed that another, potentially forward thinking party lost another major election to a low tax support corporates government, but then, from what I've heard, I'm even more frustrated that supposed progressives just don't "get it". Across the anglosphere there is just this terrible culture of sniffing your own farts and demonising the masses who think wrong and eating their own if they aren't the purest of woke BS and intersectional PC politics instead of worrying about how the everyday person feels their needs are and their vision of the country.

I genuinely believe a pro-environmental, leaning towards social democracy, anti-corporatisation dominance, invets in education and health, left of centre government can win all these elections, if they where willing to drop say pro-immigration policies and rhetoric accepting a reduction is desirable, drop demonising anyone who doesn't fit the woke narrative and playing the offence Olympics.

Even if these are not the policies or manifesto of the election, but they are the narrative of left/liberal politics today. I guess stuff like twitter lefty activists and the mainstream left leaning media are equally, perhaps more responsible for that problem than any left or centre politic leader. It is what they are saying the voters. The world needs some sensible governments, why can't we get any?


You put it much better than I could have. The worst thing for progressives is because they shame people who don't agree with their world view into silence rather than debating them and trying to engage with them, they (the progressives) think they are winning the arguments when actually they are losing them. Hence the opinion polls not being reflective of the actual results. Again this is a problem in the anglosphere with left wing parties thinking they are doing better than they actually are, until the penny drops at election time. It happens time and time again.

You are also right about the politics. I actually consider myself quite a green person but I have right of centre politics. The Green party seems to think that Green = Socialist. It is a real shame there isn't a right of centre Green party. I would add a strong military to your winning policy wishlist as most voters are patriotic and like to see a strong military.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:41 pm 
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Thomas wrote:

The phrase "better the devil you know" applies here.

The ALP didn't have a strong message. They were wishy washy on Adani and coal mining and saying "we'll weight it up if we win" doesn't cut it with a scared electorate.


Absolutely. They screwed up there and there were plenty criticising them over that particularly.

My reference to Qld earlier, I should explain... I was directing that at someone called Welsh Exile I think it is, who was busy telling us he voted Libs because the unions were going to take everyone's jobs.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:44 pm 
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Thomas wrote:
I spent a good chunk of Saturday night and yesterday trawling through some serious anti-QLD vibes on social media. The vast majority of spiteful musings were from left leaning types in Sydney and Melbourne who were aghast that people would vote differently to them. I'm going out on a limb here when I say many of these people have never been to regional Australia and never will.

I'm in a safe Labor seat which had a large-ish swing to the Greens. I also live in Brisbane. But the issue in regional areas (not just QLD) becomes pretty apparent when you dig in. No jobs, no future and lots of scared people. If the ALP hadn't sat on the fence, then they may have done better. What these people wanted to hear was "we know you're hurting, we'll look after you" They didn't hear that from Shorten. They sure as hell heard that from the LNP.

Bob Brown's Caravan Tour didn't help. The one thing that pisses people off in regional areas is someone waltzing into their town, telling them everything they've known is wrong, offering no solutions and then going onto the next town. I must admit, I would have hated to have been Shorten trying to get his message across while some farkwit with a STOP ADANI sign tries to muscle him off the stage.

In 3 year's time I hope the ALP have learned from this mistake. Get a strong leader (a QLDer would help) and march him north with a united message. It worked for Rudd.


Thanks Thomas.
I have been trying to understand why QLD voted the way they did, so the insight is really appreciated

We are seeing an interesting realignment in Aus politics with working people voting for the Libs.
The old divisions of blue collar v white collar don’t really apply that much any more and it probably explains why the pollsters got it so wrong


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:45 pm 
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The Bob Brown "Caravan of Righteousness" could have been a good thing, if all those activists had travelled north to engage with the locals and have a reasoned and respectful debate about the issues.


We all might all have learned something. Now that would be a big step forward, eh?


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:56 pm 
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wamberal99 wrote:
The Bob Brown "Caravan of Righteousness" could have been a good thing, if all those activists had travelled north to engage with the locals and have a reasoned and respectful debate about the issues.


We all might all have learned something. Now that would be a big step forward, eh?


Yeah. That's the sort of thing I was driving at earlier... the earnest motivations for the caravan are all well and good, informed people know we're facing what looks more and more like a severe climate induced environmental breakdown... but trooping into coal country and telling the locals they can't have the promised jobs is just stupid.

The fact those job promises are inflated is lost in the shitstorm.

The idea we could engage a national shift to a healthier energy industry with the promise of jobs attached would have been a good one to throw out there, you reckon.


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