The Australian Politics Thread

[Brumby_in_Vic]

Farva,

What is the Greens policy on transitioning workers in coal mining regions, and their assets (the family home, for example) to the places where there will be new, green, jobs?


What about people who do not want to go? What about the communities that exist now?


These are complex and difficult problems. Not amenable to simple, easy to remember, solutions.

Wambers, the Greens will not be forming government and so have not developed in depth policy to address these. Frankly, given many of their members, I think a Greens led government would be scary.
However, the point was made that they were fringe and lunatic with their policy and I dont actually think they are. Their policy aims are reasonable IMO. They arent far left, they are centre left.

Of course they won’t be forming Government but they give their preferences to the ALP and have Senate seats where the Government doesn’t have the balance of power.

[Brumby_in_Vic]

Just seems to me that would it would lead to Governments be very focused on the short term.

But each to his own.

Strong Governments will focus on both. Short term is vital as it is in the moment and long term they will set themselves up for re-election with strong budgets/policies.

Shorter terms discourage Governments from becoming too comfortable.

[guy smiley]

Just seems to me that would it would lead to Governments be very focused on the short term.

But each to his own.

There has been some talk of changing to a 4 year term for exactly that reason.

Australia is essentially a conservative country and change is difficult to sell. Any move to change the electoral term would be a big ask.

[Pat the Ex Mat]

It's fine if they don't want to listen - but why should we subsidise their unsustainable mining and farming practices if we are going to use that line if argument?

You could use the same argument on People on welfare that take drugs and refuse to accept testing.
Long term unemployed that refuse work for the dole.
The proposed welfare card that limits discretionary spend to foodstuffs

You’re opening Pandora’s box when you make these sorts of arguments

Of course, I am not serious but the media here is complicit in opening that box

[Auckman]

So about this Senate of yours...

I heard on the radio that the Labor-Greens may or may not have a majority in there. If such a scenario comes to pass does this matter much? Can they block anything that moves like the republicans or are they more likely to be more constructive for fear of upsetting the electorate?

[Pat the Ex Mat]

So about this Senate of yours...

I heard on the radio that the Labor-Greens may or may not have a majority in there. If such a scenario comes to pass does this matter much? Can they block anything that moves like the republicans or are they more likely to be more constructive for fear of upsetting the electorate?

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Considering word was that the Libs had gutted everything.becaise they were convinced of losing, it will take a while for them to figure out what bills they will out up

[kiap]

So about this Senate of yours...

I heard on the radio that the may or may not have a majority in there. If such a scenario comes to pass does this matter much? Can they block anything that moves like the republicans or are they more likely to be more constructive for fear of upsetting the electorate?

They can block anything they want in theory, including supply, IF they have a majority. That ultimate level of non-constructive is unlikely, though. It's playing with electoral fire. They'll still be opposing other stuff, though.

However - like the coalition -they're not predicted to have enough votes to be the boss. Labor + Greens will probably be around 3-4 seats short.

[guy smiley]

This is a wildcard, joint venture announcement that will see Chinese electric vehicles imported at first, then increasingly assembled through the old Holden factory in Adelaide...

https://thedriven.io/2019/05/16/austral ... -with-byd/

Interesting to see how that will fly for the new govt with their historic antipathy to both clean energy and the local car industry.

[The Man Without Fear]

This is a wildcard, joint venture announcement that will see Chinese electric vehicles imported at first, then increasingly assembled through the old Holden factory in Adelaide...

https://thedriven.io/2019/05/16/austral ... -with-byd/

Interesting to see how that will fly for the new govt with their historic antipathy to both clean energy and the local car industry.

Megatrends trump politics and renewable energy is where it's slowly but surely going.

[guy smiley]

Megatrends trump politics and renewable energy is where it's slowly but surely going.

Yeah, a lot of attention has been placed on the current government's love affair with coal but the market itself has been moving at a rate that will see Australia hit 50% renewables by 2025... link.

[wamberal99]

Albo or Jim Chalmers?


If Albo gets it he will lose the next election, so they might just as well roll the dice and go for the bright shiny errr Queenslander.

[Pat the Ex Mat]

Fair play to Chalmers fronting up to Q&A last night.

My only worry with him is he sounds exactly like Tonny Abbott when he speaks!

[guy smiley]

Albo or Jim Chalmers?


If Albo gets it he will lose the next election, so they might just as well roll the dice and go for the bright shiny errr Queenslander.

Rock and a hard place...

chase the centre or actually go back to the roots and address the workers' fears.

[Clogs]

Albo or Jim Chalmers?


If Albo gets it he will lose the next election, so they might just as well roll the dice and go for the bright shiny errr Queenslander.

Rock and a hard place...

chase the centre or actually go back to the roots and address the workers' fears.

I think they have to chase the centre Guy. That is where the swing is. Most of the workers are centre. The rusted on will remain loyal, but it is the swing voter that is needed. It won't please the Greens, but they will always preference ALP. At least that way they get in.

[_fatprop]

Megatrends trump politics and renewable energy is where it's slowly but surely going.

Yeah, a lot of attention has been placed on the current government's love affair with coal but the market itself has been moving at a rate that will see Australia hit 50% renewables by 2025... link.

I can't see another coal power station ever being built, so renewables with a load of gas turbines to fill the holes is most likely, BP & the frackers et al will be the winners

[Ali's Choice]

It's become clear that the ALP's policy agenda was far too big for the Australian people. Life is pretty good for most people in this country and the ALP misread the mood for change. Instead of proposing sweeping changes across a range of areas, they should have concentrated on just one or two priorities. Similar to what Rudd did in 20017. For example, if they had run just on climate change, and introducing the NEG, I think they would have won office. There was a mood for real action on climate change. But this sentiment was diluted by concerns about changes to negative gearing, franking credits, superannuation etc which played into concerns about the ALP's spending and allowed Morrison to run the mother of all scare campaigns. This meant that lots of people who want real action on climate change ended up voting against the the ALP.

I want Albanese to become leader, and with the right policy agenda he can win govt in three years. Morrison is a skilled politican and orator, but so too is Albo. This govt lacks talent, lacks a mandate to do anything significant and is still outdated and divided.

[Macrosan]

Meanwhile, China and India continue to build coal-fired power stations. China alone has 1,000 GWs of coal power - Australia has 23 GWs, all of which is scheduled for closure within 25 years. China's will increase by 25% with completion of approved new plants. China does not give one fcuk about climate change - sure they have subsidised some solar powered companies, but this is just a pimple on their arse.

But hey, let's all get totally fcuked in the head about what Morrison's government will or won't do. Unless China or India act soon the world is over (according to some).

[Clogs]

It's become clear that the ALP's policy agenda was far too big for the Australian people. Life is pretty good for most people in this country and the ALP misread the mood for change. Instead of proposing sweeping changes across a range of areas, they should have concentrated on just one or two priorities. Similar to what Rudd did in 20017. For example, if they had run just on climate change, and introducing the NEG, I think they would have won office. There was a mood for real action on climate change. But this sentiment was diluted by concerns about changes to negative gearing, franking credits, superannuation etc which played into concerns about the ALP's spending and allowed Morrison to run the mother of all scare campaigns. This meant that lots of people who want real action on climate change ended up voting against the the ALP.

I want Albanese to become leader, and with the right policy agenda he can win govt in three years. Morrison is a skilled politican and orator, but so too is Albo. This govt lacks talent, lacks a mandate to do anything significant and is still outdated and divided.

Interesting to read your claim that this government lacks talent. Even more remarkable when the opposition lost the un-loseable election. Not just lost but got hammered. I will never forget this excerpt from a recent exchange on national television:

Shorten: By 2030 every Australian will have to have an electric car.
Audience: Sycophantic ALP crowd in the audience bursts into rapturous applause for the messiah.
Scomo: Bro, do you even know how much electric cars cost?
Shorten: Well, erm, not really too much more than erm, we really can't afford not to can we...?
Audience: Awkward silence.

Kinda like a GST on cakes moment that one.

[Caley_Red]

It's become clear that the ALP's policy agenda was far too big for the Australian people. Life is pretty good for most people in this country and the ALP misread the mood for change. Instead of proposing sweeping changes across a range of areas, they should have concentrated on just one or two priorities. Similar to what Rudd did in 20017. For example, if they had run just on climate change, and introducing the NEG, I think they would have won office. There was a mood for real action on climate change. But this sentiment was diluted by concerns about changes to negative gearing, franking credits, superannuation etc which played into concerns about the ALP's spending and allowed Morrison to run the mother of all scare campaigns. This meant that lots of people who want real action on climate change ended up voting against the the ALP.

I want Albanese to become leader, and with the right policy agenda he can win govt in three years. Morrison is a skilled politican and orator, but so too is Albo. This govt lacks talent, lacks a mandate to do anything significant and is still outdated and divided.

I find it odd that your choice of words reflects the idea that Australians were too small minded for such a 'bold and radical' vision. The words I would have used is that the policy proposal was far too disruptive, punitive and un-costed for people to trust.

[koroke hangareka]

Just seems to me that would it would lead to Governments be very focused on the short term.

But each to his own.

It does. Essentially you never get out of election mode. But have a good look at any Australian government, then try to tell people it's a good idea to give then an extra year without an election—it doesn't go over too well.

[Ali's Choice]

It's become clear that the ALP's policy agenda was far too big for the Australian people. Life is pretty good for most people in this country and the ALP misread the mood for change. Instead of proposing sweeping changes across a range of areas, they should have concentrated on just one or two priorities. Similar to what Rudd did in 20017. For example, if they had run just on climate change, and introducing the NEG, I think they would have won office. There was a mood for real action on climate change. But this sentiment was diluted by concerns about changes to negative gearing, franking credits, superannuation etc which played into concerns about the ALP's spending and allowed Morrison to run the mother of all scare campaigns. This meant that lots of people who want real action on climate change ended up voting against the the ALP.

I want Albanese to become leader, and with the right policy agenda he can win govt in three years. Morrison is a skilled politican and orator, but so too is Albo. This govt lacks talent, lacks a mandate to do anything significant and is still outdated and divided.

Interesting to read your claim that this government lacks talent. Even more remarkable when the opposition lost the un-loseable election. Not just lost but got hammered. I will never forget this excerpt from a recent exchange on national television:

Happy to create a head-to-head with the ALP and Coalition front benches to compare talent. It's obviously very subjective, and I have no doubt you personally believe that Michaela Cash and Melissa Price are more talented than Tanya Plibersek and Penny Wong.

The fact that the Coalition's entire campaign was based around one person, with no ministers bar Frydenberg featuring, suggests that they lack talent. The ALP just need to do a better job of taking advantage of this.

Moreover, talent doesn't always equate to the outcome. I think the Crusaders are more talented than the Waratahs, but we lost to them in Sydney this year.

[Farva]

Megatrends trump politics and renewable energy is where it's slowly but surely going.

Yeah, a lot of attention has been placed on the current government's love affair with coal but the market itself has been moving at a rate that will see Australia hit 50% renewables by 2025... link.

I can't see another coal power station ever being built, so renewables with a load of gas turbines to fill the holes is most likely, BP & the frackers et al will be the winners

Even gas will start to be an issue. The cost of gas is rising world wide as more CCGT plants are built and demand is rising.

[Clogs]

It's become clear that the ALP's policy agenda was far too big for the Australian people. Life is pretty good for most people in this country and the ALP misread the mood for change. Instead of proposing sweeping changes across a range of areas, they should have concentrated on just one or two priorities. Similar to what Rudd did in 20017. For example, if they had run just on climate change, and introducing the NEG, I think they would have won office. There was a mood for real action on climate change. But this sentiment was diluted by concerns about changes to negative gearing, franking credits, superannuation etc which played into concerns about the ALP's spending and allowed Morrison to run the mother of all scare campaigns. This meant that lots of people who want real action on climate change ended up voting against the the ALP.

I want Albanese to become leader, and with the right policy agenda he can win govt in three years. Morrison is a skilled politican and orator, but so too is Albo. This govt lacks talent, lacks a mandate to do anything significant and is still outdated and divided.

Interesting to read your claim that this government lacks talent. Even more remarkable when the opposition lost the un-loseable election. Not just lost but got hammered. I will never forget this excerpt from a recent exchange on national television:

Happy to create a head-to-head with the ALP and Coalition front benches to compare talent. It's obviously very subjective, and I have no doubt you personally believe that Michaela Cash and Melissa Price are more talented than Tanya Plibersek and Penny Wong.

The fact that the Coalition's entire campaign was based around one person, with no ministers bar Frydenberg featuring, suggests that they lack talent. The ALP just need to do a better job of taking advantage of this.

Moreover, talent doesn't always equate to the outcome. I think the Crusaders are more talented than the Waratahs, but we lost to them in Sydney this year.

So the entire chock full of talent ALP could not beat Scomo on his own in the polls? An entire team of hugely talented ALP politicians could not defeat single handed Scomo? All that talent vs 1 person and they still lost the un-loseable election? You understand that is what you are saying don't you?


Also Scomo really is the Richie McCaw of Australian politics.

[Taranaki Snapper]

just skimmed the front page of the Murdochian...
(They're going to cramp up after this orgy of masturbatory self-congratulation...)

[Pat the Ex Mat]

Megatrends trump politics and renewable energy is where it's slowly but surely going.

Yeah, a lot of attention has been placed on the current government's love affair with coal but the market itself has been moving at a rate that will see Australia hit 50% renewables by 2025... link.

I can't see another coal power station ever being built, so renewables with a load of gas turbines to fill the holes is most likely, BP & the frackers et al will be the winners

Even gas will start to be an issue. The cost of gas is rising world wide as more CCGT plants are built and demand is rising.

And like clockwork, the news has been full of idiots like Matt Canavan talking g about building scores of thermal coal powered plants....

[wamberal99]

Talent has got fark all to do with anything, apparently.


What seems to matter is, above all, an ability to speak simply and clearly. Image is everything, policy is just an afterthought.


A lot will depend on how the incoming Opposition Leader performs under pressure. There will be a lot of it.


Once upon a time we used to believe that Oppositions do not win elections, Governments lose them. This Government deserved to lose by just about any measure, on their performance. But they didn't. So obviously things would have to get incredibly bad from an economic perspective for the ALP to get back in.


Or they are going to have to be led by another great media performer. That is not Albo, it is Chalmers. Plus of course he would have a stand-up start over Scummo in Queensland, and that is where the next election will be won.

[Ali's Choice]

It's become clear that the ALP's policy agenda was far too big for the Australian people. Life is pretty good for most people in this country and the ALP misread the mood for change. Instead of proposing sweeping changes across a range of areas, they should have concentrated on just one or two priorities. Similar to what Rudd did in 20017. For example, if they had run just on climate change, and introducing the NEG, I think they would have won office. There was a mood for real action on climate change. But this sentiment was diluted by concerns about changes to negative gearing, franking credits, superannuation etc which played into concerns about the ALP's spending and allowed Morrison to run the mother of all scare campaigns. This meant that lots of people who want real action on climate change ended up voting against the the ALP.

I want Albanese to become leader, and with the right policy agenda he can win govt in three years. Morrison is a skilled politican and orator, but so too is Albo. This govt lacks talent, lacks a mandate to do anything significant and is still outdated and divided.

I find it odd that your choice of words reflects the idea that Australians were too small minded for such a 'bold and radical' vision. The words I would have used is that the policy proposal was far too disruptive, punitive and un-costed for people to trust.

Dumb post. I never mentioned anything about people being "small minded". That's you projecting on my comment. Clearly the ALP's suite of policies was too big, and the Australian electorate wasn't in the mood for that degree of change.

[Ali's Choice]

It's become clear that the ALP's policy agenda was far too big for the Australian people. Life is pretty good for most people in this country and the ALP misread the mood for change. Instead of proposing sweeping changes across a range of areas, they should have concentrated on just one or two priorities. Similar to what Rudd did in 20017. For example, if they had run just on climate change, and introducing the NEG, I think they would have won office. There was a mood for real action on climate change. But this sentiment was diluted by concerns about changes to negative gearing, franking credits, superannuation etc which played into concerns about the ALP's spending and allowed Morrison to run the mother of all scare campaigns. This meant that lots of people who want real action on climate change ended up voting against the the ALP.

I want Albanese to become leader, and with the right policy agenda he can win govt in three years. Morrison is a skilled politican and orator, but so too is Albo. This govt lacks talent, lacks a mandate to do anything significant and is still outdated and divided.

Interesting to read your claim that this government lacks talent. Even more remarkable when the opposition lost the un-loseable election. Not just lost but got hammered. I will never forget this excerpt from a recent exchange on national television:

Happy to create a head-to-head with the ALP and Coalition front benches to compare talent. It's obviously very subjective, and I have no doubt you personally believe that Michaela Cash and Melissa Price are more talented than Tanya Plibersek and Penny Wong.

The fact that the Coalition's entire campaign was based around one person, with no ministers bar Frydenberg featuring, suggests that they lack talent. The ALP just need to do a better job of taking advantage of this.

Moreover, talent doesn't always equate to the outcome. I think the Crusaders are more talented than the Waratahs, but we lost to them in Sydney this year.

So the entire chock full of talent ALP could not beat Scomo on his own in the polls? An entire team of hugely talented ALP politicians could not defeat single handed Scomo? All that talent vs 1 person and they still lost the un-loseable election? You understand that is what you are saying don't you?


Also Scomo really is the Richie McCaw of Australian politics.

To be fair it was Scott Morrison. Plus Josh Frydenberg. Plus $60 million of UAP's anti-Labor ads. Plus the full weight of the Murdoch news empire (80% of the nations newspapers and news sites). Given these facts I'm surprised that the ALP retained as many seats as they did.

[Sensible Stephen]

Come on. Labor is never going to improve its fortunes if the best it can do is blame others for its loss.

[Working Class Rugger]

I'm a bit disappointed the Labor leadership race appears to be down to Anthony Albanese and Chris Bowen. Much like Shorten I cannot see either man being particularly popular among the electorate which unfortunately matters more than policy from my conversation with quite a number of people since Saturday. I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.

[Sensible Stephen]

I'm a bit disappointed the Labor leadership race appears to be down to Anthony Albanese and Chris Bowen. Much like Shorten I cannot see either man being particularly popular among the electorate which unfortunately matters more than policy from my conversation with quite a number of people since Saturday. I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.

They really need some "new blood". Can't help but feel Albo or especially Bowen are just Shorten Mk 2.0.

[kiwinoz]

Albanese is Labor left and Bowens Labor right but really is there a big difference?

[guy smiley]

I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.

Plibersek opted out for her kids' sake. No issue there, good on her.

I'm interested in your theory that an electorate that just voted overwhelmingly for a Pentecostal happyclapper running on a zero policy platform would somehow be won over by an Asian Lesbian. By all means, pour me a glass of whatever it is and sign me up for regular delivery.

[Sensible Stephen]

I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.

Plibersek opted out for her kids' sake. No issue there, good on her.

I'm interested in your theory that an electorate that just voted overwhelmingly for a Pentecostal happyclapper running on a zero policy platform would somehow be won over by an Asian Lesbian. By all means, pour me a glass of whatever it is and sign me up for regular delivery.

See, you seem to be presuming that the votes were based on conservative christian values or something. Rather than say... economics and fear of losing jobs/retirement funding.

I doubt being gay, or Asian would matter much to most of the electorate.

[Caley_Red]

See, you seem to be presuming that the votes were based on conservative christian values or something. Rather than say... economics and fear of losing jobs/retirement funding.

I doubt being gay, or Asian would matter much to most of the electorate.

More reflective of people inserting their own politics into a narrative they feel vindicates the loss.

[_fatprop]

I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.

Plibersek opted out for her kids' sake. No issue there, good on her.

I'm interested in your theory that an electorate that just voted overwhelmingly for a Pentecostal happyclapper running on a zero policy platform would somehow be won over by an Asian Lesbian. By all means, pour me a glass of whatever it is and sign me up for regular delivery.

I would describe him more as a "enthusiastic boofhead dad" no one cares that he is a church goer

[guy smiley]

I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.

Plibersek opted out for her kids' sake. No issue there, good on her.

I'm interested in your theory that an electorate that just voted overwhelmingly for a Pentecostal happyclapper running on a zero policy platform would somehow be won over by an Asian Lesbian. By all means, pour me a glass of whatever it is and sign me up for regular delivery.

See, you seem to be presuming that the votes were based on conservative christian values or something. Rather than say... economics and fear of losing jobs/retirement funding.

I doubt being gay, or Asian would matter much to most of the electorate.

I think the way we saw Julia Gillard being treated as PM would offer some clues as to how Penny Wong would fare...

do you see the progression there?

[Ali's Choice]

Come on. Labor is never going to improve its fortunes if the best it can do is blame others for its loss.

I've already said that the ALP campaign was flawed, but you deliberately chose to ignore my previous comments. You're delusional if you think that having 80% of the country's news outlets campaigning passionately and aggressively for one side of politics each and every day doesn't have an impact at elections. It's like a NZ team playing away in SA with a local referee, the ALP need to be significantly better than the Coalition in every facet to have any chance of victory because it certainly isn't a level playing field.

[_fatprop]

I'm also really disappointed that Tanya Pilbersek has withdrawn or that Penny Wong never came into the discussions. Both would be significantly more popular with the electorate than the two likely options.

Plibersek opted out for her kids' sake. No issue there, good on her.

I'm interested in your theory that an electorate that just voted overwhelmingly for a Pentecostal happyclapper running on a zero policy platform would somehow be won over by an Asian Lesbian. By all means, pour me a glass of whatever it is and sign me up for regular delivery.

See, you seem to be presuming that the votes were based on conservative christian values or something. Rather than say... economics and fear of losing jobs/retirement funding.

I doubt being gay, or Asian would matter much to most of the electorate.

I think the way we saw Julia Gillard being treated as PM would offer some clues as to how Penny Wong would fare...

do you see the progression there?

We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality

[guy smiley]

We treat all our politicians badly, it is one area of true equality

I can't agree with you there mate, in this context. Australia treats women poorly and women in politics extremely poorly. There's no equality apparent. No male PM has ever had a radio announcer suggest he should be tied in a chaff bag and dumped at sea. No male pollie has ever had to deal with the ongoing campaign of harassment that Sarah Hansen Young deals with regularly. There are other examples but there's two easy ones off the bat.

I think Penny Wong is Australia's most effective political operator within the parliament but I don't think the country is mature enough to deal with her as opposition leader. I'd love to be wrong and see her crucify opponents... but I think she'd attract too much negative attention and besides, she can't do it from the Senate and there's no way of moving her to the lower house without engineering a by election result.