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Whos Going to Lead the Labor Rabble
Albo 38%  38%  [ 5 ]
Plibbers 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
Bowen 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
Chalmers 23%  23%  [ 3 ]
Uncle Tony 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
Clive Palmer 15%  15%  [ 2 ]
George Smith 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 13
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:22 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
So, ScoMo shows up in Googong to hold one of those staged ‘pressers’ announcing something on the side of the road...

and the homeowner steps out of his front door, interrupts very politely and says please, cmon fellas, I’ve just reseeded that forcing the circus off his lawn and the footpath :lol: :lol:

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-06- ... 21544?nw=0


Gold :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:25 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
So, ScoMo shows up in Googong to hold one of those staged ‘pressers’ announcing something on the side of the road...

and the homeowner steps out of his front door, interrupts very politely and says please, cmon fellas, I’ve just reseeded that forcing the circus off his lawn and the footpath :lol: :lol:

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-06- ... 21544?nw=0




Am I the only one who is disappointed that the homeowner didn’t go the full Clint Eastwood?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:07 am 
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Pretty casual, as things are in the world now it's quite good to see people can be reasonable and normal, even have a bit of a laugh about it at the end. The Australian government also didn't bother to wait till the end of June to call a recession either which is a good break from the norm.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:17 am 
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sonic_attack wrote:
Pretty casual, as things are in the world now it's quite good to see people can be reasonable and normal, even have a bit of a laugh about it at the end. The Australian government also didn't bother to wait till the end of June to call a recession either which is a good break from the norm.


Yeah. I was getting real tired of all those June recession announcements... wait, WUT?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:26 am 
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Anyone have any feedback about the government's new stimulus for the construction industry - Home Builder? Seems like the stimulus that you develop when you want the headlines to announce you are delivering a stimulus, but you actually want to spend as little as possible. I'll be looking to see how much I can get in tax payer's money to renovate one of our properties, but if I worked in the university, tourism, airline or hospitality industries I'd probably be a bit miffed that this program is solely targeted at enriching people who still have their jobs. Like Job Keeper, this is a shitty, badly designed program.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:27 am 
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Quote:
Seems like the stimulus that you develop when you want the headlines to announce you are delivering a stimulus, but you actually want to spend as little as possible.


Yep right on the money. It would be better to give everyone a$150 food and drinks vouchers .


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:27 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
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Seems like the stimulus that you develop when you want the headlines to announce you are delivering a stimulus, but you actually want to spend as little as possible.


Yep right on the money. It would be better to give everyone a$150 food and drinks vouchers .
. There’s a meme doing the rounds...

Quote:
Let’s borrow $150G to get $25G to spend on a house worth $200G less in a recession and keep the banks happy


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:05 pm 
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If only the SysAdmin Party was running the country

It still wouldn't work, but by crikey, everything would have thirty levels of gold-plated redundancy and not-my-faultness. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:30 pm 
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We can surely discuss a policy, yeah?

You know, without doing that partisan thing that some like to complain about?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:33 pm 
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Where can you buy a house for under $750,000? And who would want to live in it?

8)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:36 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
We can surely discuss a policy, yeah?

You know, without doing that partisan thing that some like to complain about?


Discuss?

Reminds me of that Jehovah scene from Monty Python

Cvnt.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:36 am 
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Once again I wish the government would stop taking money to give it out like this.

Give the states the money for them to cut stamp duty

Not sure why so targeted to be honest - just reduce taxes (especially the minimum threshold- make it higher (18.2k now, aim to get to first 20k tax free etc )


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:58 am 
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shanky wrote:
If only the SysAdmin Party was running the country

It still wouldn't work, but by crikey, everything would have thirty levels of gold-plated redundancy and not-my-faultness. :lol:


Thus spake the lawyer.... :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:02 am 
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House Maker might end up being the worst received and least popular fiscal stimulus in Australia's history.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:28 am 
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I like the idea of a home builder stimulus. House construction will be hit hard. But I feel this package misses the mark. Picking $150k as the minimum spend, and for individuals earning up to $120k or couples $200k, means that not many people will take it up.

It also will hit the wrong areas. It will be to stimulate the large developers, not the tradies. You want to get the guys who own small businesses busy, they will take the biggest hit. That means you need to stimulate the small renovations. People who want to get their kitchen or bathroom done, who will spend only $25k.

Maybe offering a stimulus of up to 20% of costs would be a better way to do this?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:36 am 
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It's Fiscal - The LNP always gets it wrong.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:42 am 
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Farva wrote:
I like the idea of a home builder stimulus. House construction will be hit hard. But I feel this package misses the mark. Picking $150k as the minimum spend, and for individuals earning up to $120k or couples $200k, means that not many people will take it up.

It also will hit the wrong areas. It will be to stimulate the large developers, not the tradies. You want to get the guys who own small businesses busy, they will take the biggest hit. That means you need to stimulate the small renovations. People who want to get their kitchen or bathroom done, who will spend only $25k.

Maybe offering a stimulus of up to 20% of costs would be a better way to do this?


I haven’t seen a budget figure for total spend forecast so it’s hard to say where they could have directed funding in a better way but there’s a couple of alternative ideas floating around the web...

The Australia Institute suggest arts funding returns 9 jobs per million spent compared to construction returning .9 - 1.2 full time positions,

and the Greens suggest a massive investment into public housing would create large scale employment AND resolve the housing shortage.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:47 am 
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guy smiley wrote:

and the Greens suggest a massive investment into public housing would create large scale employment AND resolve the housing shortage.


The only people doing something about Public Housing in NSW appear to be Sydney Council - each new development must have allocations.

There 7 Blocks of apartments where I live and one block is wholly public housing.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:42 am 
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Image

FVK CHINA!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:50 am 
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Will be interesting to see how this pans out in QLD. Palaszczuk freezing public service wages, effectively scrapping out all existing enterprise bargaining agreements made with teachers, nurses, police and civil servants, just months out from an election is a ballsy move.

Quote:
Forced wage freeze ahead for Queensland public servants as Labor Government plans to introduce extraordinary legislation
By Matt Wordsworth


Frustrated by failed talks with unions, Industrial Relations Minister Grace Grace is set to pull the trigger on extraordinary legislation to enforce the Premier's promise of a 12-month wage freeze for the Queensland public service.

The ABC understands the former union boss will take the matter to Cabinet on Monday, with plans to introduce a bill to Queensland Parliament in the next sitting week, which begins on June 16.

It has appalled key unions, including the Australian Workers Union (AWU) and the Queensland Police Union (QPU), whose members had agreements in place for a 2.5 per cent pay rise.

QPU president Ian Leavers said the state's police had a legally binding enterprise bargaining agreement that clearly sets out the wages and increases, with the next one due in three weeks' time on July 1.

"We expect the State Government to honour this legally binding wage increase with police, as we consider any type of retrospective legislation to nullify our employment agreement to be a troubling precedent that would effectively mean the end of enterprise bargaining as we know it," Mr Leavers said.

AWU state secretary Steve Baker, who represents health workers — including cleaners, kitchen staff and gardeners who work at health facilities — as well as allied health professionals, said it betrayed the work being done during the COVID-19 crisis.

"They've [health workers] been risking exposure to coronavirus, they're being hailed as heroes, and now they're being punished by a wage freeze," Mr Baker said.

"A wage freeze doesn't work, it doesn't stimulate the economy, it doesn't stimulate spending. They should be putting money into the economy.

"You should not be able to legislate to unpick agreements once they're certified. It's retrospective legislation which the AWU will never support."

Other unions have swung behind Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk, including the powerful head of the United Workers Union (UWU), Gary Bullock.

"Are we happy [about the threat of legislation]? No. Is the Premier happy about having to do it? No," Mr Bullock said.

"But what our members do understand is that they are in a situation where they are still employed, when many other Queenslanders are unemployed."

"There's a range of unions that totally understand the financial situation of the state in Queensland.

"Members of United Workers Union have been consulted about what are the components of what a wage freeze might look like, that they think they will be able to live with."

In return, they would get a double-tap increase the following year — increases of 2.5 per cent each six months.

So while the Government could book an estimated saving of $500 million ahead of the state election in October, the state would face wage increases of 5 per cent the following year.

The ABC put questions to the Industrial Relations Minister and the Treasurer about the prospect of legislation, whether the freeze applied to government-owned corporations, and whether bonuses would continue to be paid to senior executives.

A spokesman said: "The implementation of wage freezes is currently under consideration."

Strange and, seemingly, contradictory positions
It is a political minefield that the New South Wales Government is also trying to negotiate.

The Coalition Government — led by Liberal Premier Gladys Berejiklian — is proposing to honour all existing agreements and impose a 0 per cent rise for the first 12 months of future agreements.

It would save $3 billion and, instead of legislation, only required a change in regulation.

But this week it was blocked by a disallowance motion from the NSW Upper House.

The Labor Opposition teamed up with the Greens, Animal Justice Party, One Nation and the Shooters and Fishers Party to thwart the NSW Treasurer's regulation.

It's now been sent off to the NSW Industrial Relations Commission to resolve.

It leaves key actors in two states in strange and, seemingly, contradictory positions.

The Labor Government in Queensland is pushing a freeze, while the Labor Opposition in New South Wales is doing everything it can to block a similar move there.

The LNP, rather than adopt the New South Wales Coalition's idea of honouring existing contracts and imposing a freeze thereafter, is supporting the blanket freeze proposed by Ms Palaszczuk.

There are also unions in Queensland willing to accept a freeze, while their New South Wales cousins are campaigning against the Coalition proposal.

And to top it all off, all sides are using the economic crisis as a way to justify their position.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:03 am 
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Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
guy smiley wrote:

and the Greens suggest a massive investment into public housing would create large scale employment AND resolve the housing shortage.


The only people doing something about Public Housing in NSW appear to be Sydney Council - each new development must have allocations.

There 7 Blocks of apartments where I live and one block is wholly public housing.



Povo.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:12 am 
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So the right to protest supercedes all other rights? Anyone who got fined for social distancing etc should be appealing to the same judge. What will next week bring?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:17 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
So the right to protest supercedes all other rights? Anyone who got fined for social distancing etc should be appealing to the same judge. What will next week bring?


In English?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:05 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
So the right to protest supercedes all other rights? Anyone who got fined for social distancing etc should be appealing to the same judge. What will next week bring?

Is this a windup or are you really silly as a wheel?

First up, all reports to date state the basis of the successful appeal was jurisdictional error, not some woolly argument about a right to protest.

Secondly, courts of appeal typically deal with decisions of lower courts, not with self-enforcing ticketed infringements where the fine has been paid.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:08 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
So the right to protest supercedes all other rights? Anyone who got fined for social distancing etc should be appealing to the same judge. What will next week bring?

Did the protesters not conform to social distancing laws?
I’m not 100% sure what they are right now tbh.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:26 pm 
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Farva wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
So the right to protest supercedes all other rights? Anyone who got fined for social distancing etc should be appealing to the same judge. What will next week bring?

Did the protesters not conform to social distancing laws?
I’m not 100% sure what they are right now tbh.

The NSW Supreme Court ruled the protest was not authorised. That ruling was overturned on appeal and the protest went ahead.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:25 am 
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MungoMan wrote:
Farva wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
So the right to protest supercedes all other rights? Anyone who got fined for social distancing etc should be appealing to the same judge. What will next week bring?

Did the protesters not conform to social distancing laws?
I’m not 100% sure what they are right now tbh.

The NSW Supreme Court ruled the protest was not authorised. That ruling was overturned on appeal and the protest went ahead.


On what basis? Why are 10-30k people allowed to gather when we are still in restricted movement etc? 100 people in a beer garden bad, 10000 protesting OK?

Is the right to protest any more important than the right to earn a living and open your business?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:37 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
On what basis? Why are 10-30k people allowed to gather when we are still in restricted movement etc? 100 people in a beer garden bad, 10000 protesting OK?

Is the right to protest any more important than the right to earn a living and open your business?



No point bleating here about it. Take it up with the NSW Court of Appeal.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:08 am 
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wamberal99 wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
On what basis? Why are 10-30k people allowed to gather when we are still in restricted movement etc? 100 people in a beer garden bad, 10000 protesting OK?

Is the right to protest any more important than the right to earn a living and open your business?



No point bleating here about it. Take it up with the NSW Court of Appeal.


Of course I can point out the whole hypocrisy and bullshit that we have and are continuing to endure. If you dont like it take a knee.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:30 am 
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Would I have attended a protest? No. But I can certainly understand why lots of people did. This is a rare opportunity to protest the issue of Aboriginal deaths in custody whist BLM has the public's attention as a result of what's gone on in the USA. Saying that these people should have waited until after COVID-19 isn't realistic given black deaths in custody has been a problem in Australia since European settlement.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:18 am 
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Disturbing reports of the police using Capsicum spray in an enclosed space at Central Station.

I passed the protest on the way back from work and it seemed extremely well behaved


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:27 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
MungoMan wrote:
Farva wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
So the right to protest supercedes all other rights? Anyone who got fined for social distancing etc should be appealing to the same judge. What will next week bring?

Did the protesters not conform to social distancing laws?
I’m not 100% sure what they are right now tbh.

The NSW Supreme Court ruled the protest was not authorised. That ruling was overturned on appeal and the protest went ahead.


On what basis? Why are 10-30k people allowed to gather when we are still in restricted movement etc? 100 people in a beer garden bad, 10000 protesting OK?

Is the right to protest any more important than the right to earn a living and open your business?


How do you feel about the reason the protests were held?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:55 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
MungoMan wrote:
Farva wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
So the right to protest supercedes all other rights? Anyone who got fined for social distancing etc should be appealing to the same judge. What will next week bring?

Did the protesters not conform to social distancing laws?
I’m not 100% sure what they are right now tbh.

The NSW Supreme Court ruled the protest was not authorised. That ruling was overturned on appeal and the protest went ahead.


On what basis? Why are 10-30k people allowed to gather when we are still in restricted movement etc? 100 people in a beer garden bad, 10000 protesting OK?

Is the right to protest any more important than the right to earn a living and open your business?

As I said in an earlier post, the broad basis of the successful appeal was supposedly jurisdictional error; ‘supposedly’ because the media reported that as the basis for the appeal but the NSW Court of Appeal has not yet published its judgement.

Whatever proves to be the reasoning behind the decision of the three Court of Appeal Justices, the focus is likely be on how and why Justice Fagan decided not to grant a court order allowing the protest to proceed; or on why Justice Fagan considered that such an order was necessary under the circumstances.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:00 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
MungoMan wrote:
Farva wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
So the right to protest supercedes all other rights? Anyone who got fined for social distancing etc should be appealing to the same judge. What will next week bring?

Did the protesters not conform to social distancing laws?
I’m not 100% sure what they are right now tbh.

The NSW Supreme Court ruled the protest was not authorised. That ruling was overturned on appeal and the protest went ahead.


On what basis? Why are 10-30k people allowed to gather when we are still in restricted movement etc? 100 people in a beer garden bad, 10000 protesting OK?

Is the right to protest any more important than the right to earn a living and open your business?


How do you feel about the reason the protests were held?


If we had to stand at our driveways on ANZAC day then why allow these protesters to break the lockdown? If in 3 weeks we have a spike in cases and deaths who is responsible?

I am not sure what the real reason for protesting was but lets assume it was about the high level of aboriginal deaths in custody as I have been seeing on the news. I saw that 400 Aboriginal people had died in custody over a 20 or so year period. So I wanted to see how that compared overall.

From 2017-18

Quote:
The National Deaths in Custody Program (NDICP) is responsible for monitoring the extent and nature of deaths occurring in prison, police custody and youth detention in Australia since 1980.

The death rate of Indigenous prisoners was lower than the death rate for non-Indigenous
prisoners (0.14 and 0.18 per 100 respectively; see Table B1). This was consistent across all
jurisdictions except Victoria where the death rate was higher for Indigenous prisoners (0.43 vs
0.20 per 100 prisoners). Death rates of Indigenous prisoners have been consistently lower than
the death rates of non-Indigenous prisoners since 2003–04
(see Figure 3).


Non indigenous people die at a higher rate :shock:

If we go back to the start and the death of George Floyd then US citizens have every right to protest. At least 12 African Americans died in the resulting protests/looting/riots but thats been virtually ignored. You can look at Ferguson Unrest in 2014 following Michael Brown's death to the protests today following George Floyd's death not much has changed.

If you want to show your support for that then there are other ways then getting 30,000 people to indulge in high risk actions during a pandemic lockdown. They could have kneeled on their driveway.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:14 am 
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So, you don’t know why the protests were being held.

Do you think it would be fair and reasonable to gain that understanding before passing judgement on the act of protest?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:31 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
Non indigenous people die at a higher rate :shock:


Tbf, that specific period (2017-2018) was an anomaly. There were only 21 deaths occurring in police custody in that year. Just three were Indigenous deaths and 14 were non-Indigenous deaths. Hand picking a single 12 month period doesn't provide an accurate picture of deaths in custody in Australia over the past 20 years.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:14 pm 
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Worth posting.
Why are 26% of the prison population indigenous. For me, when an individual goes to prison that is their responsibility but when there is a huge and sustained over representation (3% of the population but 26% of the prison population wth?) then there is a systematic problem and it hasn’t been addressed by successive governments. It also means that aboriginals are far more likely to die in custody than Jon indigenous.

Quote:
Abstract: Compiled for two decades by the Australian Institute of Criminology, this report found both the Indigenous and non-Indigenous rates of deaths in custody have decreased over the last decade and are now some of the lowest ever seen (0.16 per 100 Indigenous prisoners and 0.22 per 100 non-Indigenous prisoners in 2010–11). For the last eight years in a row, the Indigenous rate of death in prison has been lower than the equivalent non-Indigenous rate.

While Indigenous prisoners continue to be statistically less likely to die in custody than non-Indigenous prisoners, there is a concerning trend emerging, as the actual number of Indigenous deaths in prison are rising again, with 14 in 2009-10 which is equal to the highest on record.

More concerning still is that over the 20 years since the Royal Commission, the proportion of prisoners that are Indigenous has almost doubled from 14% in 1991 to 26% in 2011.


https://aic.gov.au/publications/mr/mr20


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:29 pm 
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The charge rate for minor offenses is a lot higher... Tickets for not wearing a seatbelt is a classic. When you combine that with three strikes legislation or similar ‘tough on crime’ policy the incarceration rate rockets.

Since the Royal Commission into Deaths in Custody there have been 432 Indigenous people die under ‘state protection’. Not one conviction has been recorded in relation to those deaths... some of which involve the transport of a prisoner in the back of a paddy wagon in summer heat for distances of several hundred kms between outback settlements.

The number of indigenous inmates male and female in Australia’s prisons is out of all proportion to their population. Critics point to high crime rates in indigenous communities without knowing the facts or the comparative crime rates in mainstream communities.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:29 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
The charge rate for minor offenses is a lot higher... Tickets for not wearing a seatbelt is a classic. When you combine that with three strikes legislation or similar ‘tough on crime’ policy the incarceration rate rockets.

Since the Royal Commission into Deaths in Custody there have been 432 Indigenous people die under ‘state protection’. Not one conviction has been recorded in relation to those deaths... some of which involve the transport of a prisoner in the back of a paddy wagon in summer heat for distances of several hundred kms between outback settlements.

The number of indigenous inmates male and female in Australia’s prisons is out of all proportion to their population. Critics point to high crime rates in indigenous communities without knowing the facts or the comparative crime rates in mainstream communities.


This is a hugely complex issue. The problem isn't just about ATSI incarceration, it's about ATSI crime. And the problem of ATSI crime isn't a law and order issue, it's a social issue. Incarceration stats are simply a symptom of the real problem, ATSI family dysfunction in many areas of Australia.

Early this morning in North QLD a group of 5 aboriginal youths, aged 12 to 17 broke into a home in Townsville, North QLD, and stole the sleeping family's car keys. They drove around in the stolen KIA for a few hours before the 14 year old drover, driving at high speed and on the wrong side of the road, hit a round about and flipped the car. The other four children who were passengers in the car died at the scene and the driver escaped with minor injuries.

This is a tragic incident. It's a car accident that is all about youth crime; a problem that Townsville only knows too well. But the root cause of this issue is family dysfunction. Three of the 5 children involved were wards of the state, because their family life was so dysfunctional they were removed from their parents. As someone who works in disadvantaged schools I only know too well how bad things have to get before kids become wards of the state. By that time it's too late.

I suspect drugs have heavily impacted all 5 children's lives. Four children are now dead and a family's car is now destroyed. This wasn't a law and order issue as much as it was a social issue. Until we can support ATSI parents to raise their children better, all the symptomatic issues such as indigenous deaths in custody and ATSI crime will only get worse. This isn't a law and order issue, it's a social issue.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:50 am
Posts: 5299
Grim indeed. :|

In other news, I see that Ryan Stokes at 38 has received the Order of Australia.

Man, must be tough being the sun of a Billionaire. I don't doubt he's done good things but shirley there are plenty of grassroots volunteers who deserve it.

38 is nothing


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