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Whos Going to Lead the Labor Rabble
Albo 36%  36%  [ 5 ]
Plibbers 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Bowen 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Chalmers 29%  29%  [ 4 ]
Uncle Tony 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Clive Palmer 14%  14%  [ 2 ]
George Smith 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 14
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:38 am 
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Ellafan wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
kiap wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Does anyone else think Jim Chalmers is a potential future ALP leader?

Yep.

Has to overcome being from the No.3 state, but would be a strong choice.


Kevin Rudd managed it. Given the challenges that the ALP face in QLD I think Chalmers could be an inspired choice as leader.


I was under the impression that even you labor guys thought Kevin 07 was a bit of a prick. And a Chinese agent.

Pre-07 Kevin was a Qld public servant of sorts for a while and had the reputation of being a weirdo and a prick. The opinion was not confined to folk ill-disposed to Labor.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:59 am 
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MungoMan wrote:
Pre-07 Kevin was a Qld public servant of sorts for a while and had the reputation of being a weirdo and a prick. The opinion was not confined to folk ill-disposed to Labor.


Has there ever been a word leader who was a soft and cuddly nice-guy?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:08 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:12 am 
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Ellafan wrote:
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A woman is only a woman
but a good cigar is a poke


OK I’m going now


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:47 am 
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Apropos of nothing much, has Mr Potatohead been spotted lately?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:59 am 
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Saw him being a talking head on a doco about George Washington.

He looks old.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:29 pm 
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You don't need many hot spots for this thing to go exponential.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:38 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:15 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
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The Blue Screen of Shame


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:24 am 
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MungoMan wrote:
The Blue Screen of Shame

Not BSOD?

At least the "tower people" are now only under city lockdown (well eight-ninths of 'em)...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:16 pm 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
les@mooloolaba wrote:
What a cluster fvck the Victorian Govt has dumped on OZ and most likely the NSW Govt in a couple of weeks..

This lock down is going to cost jobs in Vic and the the economy heaps. They left it too long to do something about the spread and although they continue to say the protests were not the source, it is either that, or their failure to adequately control citizens coming in from overseas infecting the community. They should have been tough on those refusing testing, by either extending quarantine or some other penalty until they complied. By the time they implemented the longer quarantine for refusers, it was too late. fudge peoples right to refuse, they are putting peoples lives at risk and should be treated accordingly.

Because they have failed miserably to contain it and the NSW Govt gave Victorians 2 days notice of a border closure, thousands of Victorians have been fleeing across the border into NSW. Berejiklian has failed as well by not shutting the border sooner putting lives and jobs in NSW at risk.

Like fiddling while Rome burns, fvckwits the lot of them.

Just a big failure of the state governments all round. :x Can you tell im pissed off.


I don't think there is any point in blaming the Victorian government . There strategy has been fine, it's what NSW and QLD are also doing, but there have been some issues with execution.

Btw, I don't think we have "failed miserably" to contain COVID-19. We have had just 106 deaths in total. You seem to be angry with the lockdowns, and posters such as Clogs have expressed similar sentiment. We could keep Victoria open, like the Governors of Florida, Texas and Arizona did, but I wouldn't want to have their infection outcomes.
Strategy fine when they cant trace origin of infections? Just 100 deaths? That is 100 deaths too many FFS, now there will be more.

Its peoples lives they are playing russian roulette with, not to mention the people who get sick, recover, but will always have lung issues.
The Victorian govt is almost completely to blame. As i said, they allowed protests and people to leave quarantine without tests because of peoples rights, forgetting what would happen if it struck again. Now it will cost the economy and peoples jobs and who will pay for that certainly not the Victorian premier and hios cabinet. Just poor management and if he was in business he would be sacked. They just didn't manage it.
Your comments seem flippant and not empathetic at all.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:46 pm 
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les@mooloolaba wrote:

The Victorian govt is almost completely to blame. As i said, they allowed protests and people to leave quarantine without tests because of peoples rights, forgetting what would happen if it struck again. Now it will cost the economy and peoples jobs and who will pay for that certainly not the Victorian premier and hios cabinet. Just poor management and if he was in business he would be sacked. They just didn't manage it.


Wtf? The Victorian govt didn't "allow" protests. Dan Andrews and his ministers told people to stay home. But short of arresting 10,000 people, or barricading up the entire Melbourne CBD, what more could they have done. It was a protest not a parade. What people deliberately choose to forget is that there were protests right across Australia, so blaming the BLM movement for this outbreak is simply trolling.

Quote:
Your comments seem flippant and not empathetic at all.


For saying that as a country Australia hasn't done as badly as others? The data speaks for itself, I am correct. We are in a global pandemic, but overall Australia has done very well.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:15 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
les@mooloolaba wrote:

The Victorian govt is almost completely to blame. As i said, they allowed protests and people to leave quarantine without tests because of peoples rights, forgetting what would happen if it struck again. Now it will cost the economy and peoples jobs and who will pay for that certainly not the Victorian premier and hios cabinet. Just poor management and if he was in business he would be sacked. They just didn't manage it.


Wtf? The Victorian govt didn't "allow" protests. Dan Andrews and his ministers told people to stay home. But short of arresting 10,000 people, or barricading up the entire Melbourne CBD, what more could they have done. It was a protest not a parade. What people deliberately choose to forget is that there were protests right across Australia, so blaming the BLM movement for this outbreak is simply trolling.

Quote:
Your comments seem flippant and not empathetic at all.


For saying that as a country Australia hasn't done as badly as others? The data speaks for itself, I am correct. We are in a global pandemic, but overall Australia has done very well.



Not only did they not "allow" the protests, they told people not to attend and threatened fines... which they dished out to the organisers afterwards.

But in the aftermath of that, there have been no cases of community transmission linked to the protests.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:24 am 
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The psychology of the marches was more impactful than the actual gathering. It underpinned a mental shift for people.

But that happened in multiple states - but only Victoria has had issues at this stage. So their issues originate elsewhere.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:03 am 
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kiwigreg369 wrote:
The psychology of the marches was more impactful than the actual gathering. It underpinned a mental shift for people.


Did it? I mean, this is a line that conservatives have desperately pushed for weeks, because they were ideologically opposed to the BLM movement from the outset. But I have seen no evidence that these protests, or the anti-vaxxer/5G/Bill Gates protests across Australia a week earlier, caused any "mental shift". I live in QLD, and I can see no evidence that people's behaviour has changed as a result of our BLM protests. None whatsoever. Our behaviour has changed as state and federal govt's have eased restrictions.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:48 am 
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Come of les. You are a decent poster but that is spouting utter rubbish. Other than the fact the Vic Govt did what they could to stop the protest and carried out their threats, the outbreak just didn’t come from it. Suggesting there is any link is complete propaganda.
The Vic govt did stuff up the security for the returned travellers but who could have anticipated that they would have been rooting the infected guests?

Ultimately I think we are going to see a number of outbreaks through minor slips like this over the next six to twelve months of the pandemic. There is very little we can do about it unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:01 am 
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Really good, balanced report on the spread of COVID in Victoria.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-11/ ... e/12443982

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How Victoria's coronavirus response became a public health 'bushfire' with a second-wave lockdown
By Casey Briggs



"I just feel like we're being treated like criminals."

The harshest measure yet taken to control the spread of coronavirus in Australia caught around 3,000 public housing tenants in Melbourne by complete surprise.

Shan Berih wasn't home when Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews made the announcement late last Saturday.

"When I came back home I did see hundreds of cops everywhere, so it was really intimidating," he told viewers of his fledgling YouTube show, Talking Trophies.

"It's been getting more and more intense, people are really panicking."

Shan and his friends shared their immediate reactions, as well as those of other young residents of the buildings, soon after the shock lockdowns at estates in Flemington and North Melbourne.

While the public had been told a day earlier that there had been an outbreak in North Melbourne, no cluster had been revealed at Flemington until the lockdown was imposed.

"What is going on is completely out of line, ridiculous. We do not need 500 officers guarding the nine towers. We need nurses, we need counsellors, we need interpreters," one resident said.

"We weren't told any information, they just shut us down, didn't let us leave our houses."

So how did the crisis escalate so rapidly, and what crucial mistakes have led to a second lockdown and stay at home orders being reimposed on millions of Melburnians?

A public health 'bushfire'
The Victorian Government has repeatedly described its pandemic response as like fighting a public health bushfire.

But before a fire takes hold, it needs a source of fuel to enable its spread, and some kind of trigger to ignite it.

In this instance, a fire that had been brought under control started shooting embers. And it started spreading in places that helped turbo-charge the resurgence the state is now fighting.

But it hasn't been spreading via weddings and ski resorts as was seen earlier in the pandemic. Now, those who are being infected are more likely to be migrants, healthcare workers and warehouse and abattoir workers.

Some experts say we should have been able to prevent some of the problems we're now trying to tackle.

The fuel at the start
With surveys showing a massive drop in the public's willingness to embrace social distancing as restrictions eased, the conditions were present for the virus to once again take off.

Family virus clusters began cropping up in late May, starting with a cluster in the Melbourne suburb of Keilor Downs. They were some of the earliest signs something had gone wrong.

From there, cases continued to bubble in low numbers in Melbourne's north and west, with family-to-family contact remaining the biggest source of infection.

The virus was now spreading through a very different community than during the first surge, with patients tending to be younger and more culturally diverse.

"[In] shared homes with additional generations or just a large family, it can be very difficult to stop that single ember from continuing this bushfire," says the University of NSW's Professor Mary-Louise McLaws.

"We could have put [family clusters] out very rapidly had we gone to explain to them in their own language — and to their further community — what's going on, so that if they see a spark, they act on it immediately with testing and keeping at home."

Professor McLaws says the community is never to blame.

"It's always the lack of leadership by epidemiologists, infection control experts, the government. We the people are only as good as the advice and the support that we're given," she says.

"I believe that we are beholden to look after our multicultural community. It has to be done with their culture, in their language, so they fully get it."

On June 1 restrictions were eased in Victoria. Exactly two weeks later, daily infection numbers climbed back into the double digits, and continued to grow.

But while it seems the virus was able to spread quickly among and between families, that doesn't appear to be where the first match was struck.

The spark that started a blaze
The first case of a security guard working in a quarantine hotel being infected was reported on May 27, at a similar time to the first family outbreaks being identified.

From there, infections spiralled to the point where at least 60 cases have now been linked to clusters at two hotels in Melbourne.

The hotel infections have been linked to spread in the community, including a family outbreak in south-eastern Melbourne.

But where the security guard cluster originated remained an unsolved mystery, until the Government revealed genetic research on the strains of coronavirus circulating in the community.

The state's Chief Health Officer Brett Sutton confirmed all of the strains were different from those found in the first wave: "There is no evidence of any original virus from February, March around currently," Professor Sutton said last Tuesday.

Which means it most likely came from overseas.

Mandatory hotel quarantine is widely accepted to be one of the biggest factors that helped Australia flatten the curve the first time, but now it seems likely that a single failure in that program sparked a wave of cases far bigger than the first.

Some argue it was a mistake to entrust private security firms with the program because the industry is plagued by labour issues and sub-contracting.

Professor McLaws says the Government should be more transparent about its workings.

"The more information, the better to the public because they feel well respected, they feel in control, they understand risks," she says.

"Let us get a good idea about where it went wrong and how we can learn from this."

The Victorian health department did not answer the ABC's questions about the failings in hotel quarantine, and didn't say if there were any legal reasons preventing more detail from being disclosed.

Inside the towers

The growing case numbers across Melbourne led to localised restrictions, which were expanded, until a serious outbreak was discovered last week among people living in close quarters with shared facilities.

The situation in the nine high-rise apartment buildings obviously had the potential to become a public health disaster.

Even with the major intervention, at least 6.2 per cent of residents in the towers have been infected, and health officials fear the worst-hit apartment building may eventually record an infection rate of 25 per cent. (For context, the average infection rate among overseas arrivals in Australia is less than one per cent.)

But residents were furious at what they described as being left in the dark. Many were disturbed to be suddenly confronted by hundreds of police officers on Saturday afternoon.

Deka Ahmed, a resident in one of the North Melbourne towers, didn't know about the cluster in her estate, so she wasn't anticipating a lockdown.

"It wasn't on the news, it wasn't something that we were expecting," she says. "All the other lockdowns ... they were given a day, they could do their shopping and get what they needed.

"A lot of people have English as their second language, so just understanding what was going on was very difficult for many people. There's a lot of elderly people that live by themselves in these estates."

Adam Bandt, the Greens leader and local MP for some of the estates, is now calling for an inquiry into complaints that health officials failed to engage with migrant communities appropriately.

The Greens want a list of alleged incidents examined, including allegations that a mental health check was not done for a woman who had threatened self-harm, and that residents waited several days for urgent medication.

The Victorian Council of Social Services has also called for more sensitivity and proportionality in the response.

A spokesperson for Victoria's health department told the ABC that additional measures had been taken with public housing since the state of emergency was first declared, including supplying hand sanitiser and regular cleaning.

"Cleaning services have been ramped up with a schedule of complete deep sanitation cleans at all high rise public housing sites in Melbourne, three additional pandemic cleaning crews, and updated coronavirus Infection Control Protocols and training sessions for cleaners," the spokesperson said.

"Any longer-term health recommendations emerging from Victoria's experience of the coronavirus pandemic will be considered in due course."

The record-breaking school
An outbreak at the Al Taqwa College — which has links to the public housing towers — is now one of the biggest recorded so far in the country.

There are connections between the college outbreak, the public housing towers, and a number of family outbreaks in Melbourne.

But it is difficult to determine which one started first.

A photo taken through the school gates shows a large school building blocked off by bollards and yellow and black tape.

While authorities expect Melbourne's new stay-at-home order will eventually flatten the curve, there is potential for outbreaks to occur in high-risk settings.

Since Monday, at least 16 cases have been found among healthcare workers and their patients at five separate hospitals.

There have also been at least 13 cases in aged care, including 11 in staff of nursing homes, one resident of an aged care facility, and one home-based aged care worker.

Nursing homes have been the sites of Australia's most devastating outbreaks, and keeping COVID-19 out of them is a top priority.

A third of all aged care recipients who have contracted the virus have died with COVID-19.

Missed opportunities

The virus is also spreading to more warehouses and abattoirs, including two cases in Meatworks this week.

Professor McLaws says we already understood the risks these kinds of environments posed. There have been serious outbreaks in German and US abattoirs, for instance, and among low-paid workers living in close quarters in Singapore and South Korea.

"We missed this as an opportunity to understand that anybody living in close communities in confinement ... will be the spark to the fire," she says.

Mistakes are inevitable during an unprecedented situation like this, she says, but we must make sure we don't repeat them.

Is suppression a mistake?

Underpinning all this has been Australia's strategy to suppress the virus, rather than completely eradicate it. The idea is to accept that the virus will bubble along at very low levels, with attention focussed on preventing serious outbreaks.

The strategy recognises that even if we tried to completely rid Australia of SARS-CoV-2, we could never be completely sure if we'd succeeded.

The virus does not behave in predictable ways, which means there is an element of luck in its management. Victoria's first abattoir outbreak, for example, at Cedar Meats, was able to be snuffed out.

But the events of the past few weeks in Melbourne have highlighted how difficult it can be to catch an outbreak before it's too late.

And once Melbourne is through another six weeks of stage three restrictions, nothing is stopping the cycle from repeating.

Some epidemiologists believe Australia should change course, and move to a more aggressive strategy.

Professor Tony Blakely from the University of Melbourne told the ABC he'd changed his position this week, and now believes elimination is the only option for Australia.

"When you have six states that have eliminated it, and possibly NSW really close, it just makes no sense for Victoria to just aim for suppression.

"I think it's really important that Victoria has an explicit goal to achieve elimination and that we take a page out of the NZ playbook in how that's done."

"Is six weeks enough? If we declare that goal in the first week and line our ducks up, then yes, we could achieve it," he says, but there would be less than a 50-50 chance of that happening unless restrictions are further tightened from level three.

Professor McLaws agrees. "I don't support suppression because it's too difficult, and it's too difficult emotionally," she says.

"The virus's natural inclination is to grow and the virus is naturally a sociopath ... It is highly opportunistic, and this is where we need to encourage the community to understand one person can make or break this."

Igniting an inferno
Premier Daniel Andrews is sticking to the National Cabinet's agreed strategy.

"What we're trying to do is get this back into a contained space, into a suppressed space," he said on Thursday.

"There will be some additional cases, some additional outbreaks, but they've got to be at a size and scale that you can manage ... Not a size and scale that means you've got to go back to a stay at home order."

But so long as Victoria is at risk of outbreaks, so is the entire country.

New South Wales is still recording small numbers of locally acquired infections, many of them in south-west Sydney.

And, as we've seen in Melbourne, it only takes one spark to ignite an inferno.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:39 am 
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273 new infections in Victoria overnight. Not good, but at least the numbers aren't spiraling exponentially. Hopefully this figure starts to reduce in the coming days.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:42 am 
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It's been noticeably quiet around the last two days... so hopefully this week we'll start to see those numbers dropping.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:28 am 
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The Prime Minister has once again cancelled the upcoming fortnight of parliament. Despite hysterically demanding for months that the rest of Australia opens up fully, it seems that parliament is a special case. This man just hates any scrutiny and he hates being held to account.

From the PM;
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“The Government cannot ignore the risk to parliamentarians, their staff, the staff within the Parliament, and the broader community of the ACT that holding a parliamentary sitting would create.”


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:45 am 
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Slim 293 wrote:
It's been noticeably quiet around the last two days... so hopefully this week we'll start to see those numbers dropping.


Im also seeing a lot more masks being worn. That is something I am really surprised isnt a requirement to leave the house, it can do a lot to stop the spread.
I think we have broken the back of it, and cases will start to slide next week.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:42 am 
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Watching Insiders this morning and apparently there has been more community covid transmission in NSW over the past week than the previous 10 weeks combined.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:12 am 
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363 cases in Victoria in the past 24 hours.

Face masks to become mandatory in Melbourne and Mitchell Shire. Things still aren't looking good for Victoria :(( .


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:52 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
363 cases in Victoria in the past 24 hours.

Face masks to become mandatory in Melbourne and Mitchell Shire. Things still aren't looking good for Victoria :(( .


Numbers aren’t tracking up exponentially. And we are now only just seeing the impact of locking down suburbs. Next week we will see the benefit of locking down the city.
We would be up around 1000 now if we were maintaining the rate of increase of a week ago.
But we should have enforced masks weeks ago.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:07 am 
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Reports of 357 new cases in Victoria today. Big number, but not the exponential growth we were seeing a couple of weeks ago.

A number of schools closed in SW Sydney.

QLD has banned standing in pubs and clubs.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:15 am 
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Interesting article by PVO in today's Australian;

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquir ... ee0552409f
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The buck on quarantine stops with the commonwealth
PETER VAN ONSELEN
Follow @vanOnselenP

While there has been an understandable focus this week on the depth of the recession and the historically high levels of debt and deficit, these are to a significant extent unavoidable consequences of the pandemic. To be sure, the economic fallout has been global.

The twin avoidable conseq­uences of the pandemic, however — both of which have been the difference between Australia eliminating the virus and suppressing it (the latter only if we are lucky now) — are the Ruby Princess debacle and the hotel quarantine failures out of Victoria.

Without either of these setbacks Australia could be in the equally enviable position New Zealand is in, celebrating having eradicated the virus from our shores, with hugs and kisses all around, and able to begin the process of reviving the economy.

While most of the media coverage has laid the blame for the Ruby Princess and hotel quarantine mistakes at the feet of the respective state governments in NSW and Victoria, the fact is both failures firmly rest at the feet of the federal government — notwithstanding acknowledged mistakes made by the states.

Simply put, the Australian Border Force is in charge of incoming arrivals, with the commonwealth given constitutionally articulated responsibility for quarantining. The Constitution, in section 51 (IX), lays out in black and white that the commonwealth, not the states, has oversight for quarantine. It is the basis for the Quarantine Act, which has not been legally challenged since 1908, including during the 1919 pandemic. We also now have the Biosecurity Act (2015), which provides extremely broad powers, and it mandates that commonwealth powers supersede those of the states.

Whatever mistakes state authorities may have made, it is the commonwealth that is charged with securing our borders. It had the power to deny the Ruby Princess access. It didn’t. It is charged with responsibility for quarantining, but via the national cabinet Scott Morrison handballed that responsibility to the premiers.

Can you imagine how sections of the media and the Coalition federally would have reacted if these twin failures had occurred on the watch of a federal Labor government? How targeted they would have been at the maladministra­tion coming out of Canberra, at the failure of the commonwealth to take charge in a national crisis?

As opposition immigration spokesman Morrison would have sheeted the blame home to the Labor federal government, just as he did so effectively when refugee boats were arriving during the governments of Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard. Morrison would have attacked Labor for not restricting the access of the cruise ship. We know the ABF was on the vessel but didn’t prevent it from docking and disembarking. Morrison would have attacked federal Labor for not retaining responsibility for international arrivals going into quarantine. Morrison even might have accused federal Labor of being soft on border security if it hadn’t insisted international arrivals during the pandemic go into deten­tion centres scattered around the country and lying dormant; if it hadn’t insisted the military be used to oversee such operations, because a crisis requires firm action. I’m not saying doing so would have been fair and reasonable but that is how hard the Coalition plays its politics. And it would have been rewarded for doing so.

In comparison, federal Labor doesn’t have the cutthroat capacity to serve up the same criticisms of Morrison’s government.

Instead, the Prime Minister is flying high in the opinion polls, likely to sidestep any conseq­uences for the economic fallout because of seemingly entrenched voter attitudes that conservatives are better economic managers. Able to abdicate responsibility for international arrivals and border control, pushing the responsibility on to the states.

Yet all I read and hear about are the failures of Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews because he let security guards, not police or the military, look after hotel quarantine. And before that the failures of NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian for not preventing sick passengers disembarking the Ruby Princess at the beginning of this pandemic.

These are the responsibilities of the national government, not the states. As much as we can all agree state maladministration — once power was abdicated to them — caused the twin crisis. How ironic that the party that built its reputation on “stopping the boats” failed to stop the one boat that really mattered, the Ruby Princess. Or that a command-and-control leader such as Morrison is happy to hand over quarantining oversight when the Constitution dictates that it is an area of public policy he is firmly in charge of.

Don’t get me wrong, I thoroughly applaud the Prime Minister’s ability to manoeuvre his way politically out of trouble on these failuress — by abdicating responsibility rather than delegating it.

The fingerprints of failure by the commonwealth are nowhere to be seen, leaving state governments to wear the odium for mistakes made. Full credit to the strategic political skills of Morrison’s inner sanctum, taking advantage of the profound political weakness of federal Labor to muscle up on these issues. Ensuring a well-briefed mainstream media knows who to blame. Especially the narrative that quarantine failures in Victoria are the fault of the Premier when the Constitution clearly stipulates quarantining is a federal responsibility.

As we watch the disaster in Victoria continue to unfold, readers should remember that for years federal politicians of all stripes have complained about the quality of personnel who choose careers in state politics.

This has been especially prevalent on the right of politics, where overseeing service delivery at the state level isn’t seen to be as important or grandiose as serving at the national level, calling those who enter state politics the “second XI” or the “also-rans”. Yet here we are, at a time of national crisis no less, and we are supposed to accept that it is OK for a federal government with unequivocal powers over borders and quarantine to abdicate these responsibilities to so-called second-rate administrators?

If that isn’t a dereliction of duty I don’t know what is.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:18 am 
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If Sco-Mo is singlehandedly responsible for the two ‘debacles’ then I guess Peter would be happy to also credit him for getting the nation through relatively unscathed ‘almost like New Zealand’

But I suspect not...


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:23 am 
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shanky wrote:
If Sco-Mo is singlehandedly responsible for the two ‘debacles’ then I guess Peter would be happy to also credit him for getting the nation through relatively unscathed ‘almost like New Zealand’

But I suspect not...


ScoMo takes credit for all the positives every time he fronts the adoring media. He takes credit for the good and offloads responsibility for the bad. Tbh, all he's done over the last two months is pressure the states to ease their restrictions, whilst simultaneously lecturing Labor states when the inevitable happens and Covid-19 cases rise.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:28 am 
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<posts article politicising unfortunate elements of crisis while simultaneously decrying politicisation of some elements of crisis>


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:27 am 
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459 new cases in Victoria in the past 24 hours,


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:39 am 
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The 459 cases is in line with what we’ve seen the past week... but there’s been 10 more deaths since yesterday, including a man in his 40’s.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:43 am 
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Slim 293 wrote:
The 459 cases is in line with what we’ve seen the past week... but there’s been 10 more deaths since yesterday, including a man in his 40’s.


Yeah unfortunately you'd have to think that the number of deaths will increase as more and more people are in ICU.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:57 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Slim 293 wrote:
The 459 cases is in line with what we’ve seen the past week... but there’s been 10 more deaths since yesterday, including a man in his 40’s.


Yeah unfortunately you'd have to think that the number of deaths will increase as more and more people are in ICU.


It seems pretty certain that there is a percentage figure, maybe 3%, of all cases will pass away. I wish the media outlets would not sensationalise the "rising death toll". It is tragic, but it is an inevitable result of the rising number of cases.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:30 am 
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wamberal wrote:
Ali's Choice wrote:
Slim 293 wrote:
The 459 cases is in line with what we’ve seen the past week... but there’s been 10 more deaths since yesterday, including a man in his 40’s.


Yeah unfortunately you'd have to think that the number of deaths will increase as more and more people are in ICU.


It seems pretty certain that there is a percentage figure, maybe 3%, of all cases will pass away. I wish the media outlets would not sensationalise the "rising death toll". It is tragic, but it is an inevitable result of the rising number of cases.


I couldn't believe it when I saw the "Christmas Road Toll" thing on the news when I arrived here....

Victoria is bad but the other states are kidding themselves that they would have not had the same issues.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:42 am 
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Karen is Kerry and news.com.au goes full dox


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:49 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:


Im blown away that they have named her. She is clearly a shit person but saying so on national news? Seems excessive, and the hate that is about to come her way is massive.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:18 am 
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Farva wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:


Im blown away that they have named her. She is clearly a shit person but saying so on national news? Seems excessive, and the hate that is about to come her way is massive.


Yep but they are all doing it. Funny how a few weeks ago masks were unnecessary and wearing them was not recommended and that had been the official line for many weeks.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:21 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Interesting article by PVO in today's Australian;

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquir ... ee0552409f
Quote:
The buck on quarantine stops with the commonwealth
PETER VAN ONSELEN
Follow @vanOnselenP

While there has been an understandable focus this week on the depth of the recession and the historically high levels of debt and deficit, these are to a significant extent unavoidable consequences of the pandemic. To be sure, the economic fallout has been global.

The twin avoidable conseq­uences of the pandemic, however — both of which have been the difference between Australia eliminating the virus and suppressing it (the latter only if we are lucky now) — are the Ruby Princess debacle and the hotel quarantine failures out of Victoria.

Without either of these setbacks Australia could be in the equally enviable position New Zealand is in, celebrating having eradicated the virus from our shores, with hugs and kisses all around, and able to begin the process of reviving the economy.

While most of the media coverage has laid the blame for the Ruby Princess and hotel quarantine mistakes at the feet of the respective state governments in NSW and Victoria, the fact is both failures firmly rest at the feet of the federal government — notwithstanding acknowledged mistakes made by the states.

Simply put, the Australian Border Force is in charge of incoming arrivals, with the commonwealth given constitutionally articulated responsibility for quarantining. The Constitution, in section 51 (IX), lays out in black and white that the commonwealth, not the states, has oversight for quarantine. It is the basis for the Quarantine Act, which has not been legally challenged since 1908, including during the 1919 pandemic. We also now have the Biosecurity Act (2015), which provides extremely broad powers, and it mandates that commonwealth powers supersede those of the states.

Whatever mistakes state authorities may have made, it is the commonwealth that is charged with securing our borders. It had the power to deny the Ruby Princess access. It didn’t. It is charged with responsibility for quarantining, but via the national cabinet Scott Morrison handballed that responsibility to the premiers.


Can you imagine how sections of the media and the Coalition federally would have reacted if these twin failures had occurred on the watch of a federal Labor government? How targeted they would have been at the maladministra­tion coming out of Canberra, at the failure of the commonwealth to take charge in a national crisis?

As opposition immigration spokesman Morrison would have sheeted the blame home to the Labor federal government, just as he did so effectively when refugee boats were arriving during the governments of Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard. Morrison would have attacked Labor for not restricting the access of the cruise ship. We know the ABF was on the vessel but didn’t prevent it from docking and disembarking. Morrison would have attacked federal Labor for not retaining responsibility for international arrivals going into quarantine. Morrison even might have accused federal Labor of being soft on border security if it hadn’t insisted international arrivals during the pandemic go into deten­tion centres scattered around the country and lying dormant; if it hadn’t insisted the military be used to oversee such operations, because a crisis requires firm action. I’m not saying doing so would have been fair and reasonable but that is how hard the Coalition plays its politics. And it would have been rewarded for doing so.

In comparison, federal Labor doesn’t have the cutthroat capacity to serve up the same criticisms of Morrison’s government.

Instead, the Prime Minister is flying high in the opinion polls, likely to sidestep any conseq­uences for the economic fallout because of seemingly entrenched voter attitudes that conservatives are better economic managers. Able to abdicate responsibility for international arrivals and border control, pushing the responsibility on to the states.

Yet all I read and hear about are the failures of Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews because he let security guards, not police or the military, look after hotel quarantine. And before that the failures of NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian for not preventing sick passengers disembarking the Ruby Princess at the beginning of this pandemic.

These are the responsibilities of the national government, not the states. As much as we can all agree state maladministration — once power was abdicated to them — caused the twin crisis. How ironic that the party that built its reputation on “stopping the boats” failed to stop the one boat that really mattered, the Ruby Princess. Or that a command-and-control leader such as Morrison is happy to hand over quarantining oversight when the Constitution dictates that it is an area of public policy he is firmly in charge of.

Don’t get me wrong, I thoroughly applaud the Prime Minister’s ability to manoeuvre his way politically out of trouble on these failuress — by abdicating responsibility rather than delegating it.

The fingerprints of failure by the commonwealth are nowhere to be seen, leaving state governments to wear the odium for mistakes made. Full credit to the strategic political skills of Morrison’s inner sanctum, taking advantage of the profound political weakness of federal Labor to muscle up on these issues. Ensuring a well-briefed mainstream media knows who to blame. Especially the narrative that quarantine failures in Victoria are the fault of the Premier when the Constitution clearly stipulates quarantining is a federal responsibility.

As we watch the disaster in Victoria continue to unfold, readers should remember that for years federal politicians of all stripes have complained about the quality of personnel who choose careers in state politics.

This has been especially prevalent on the right of politics, where overseeing service delivery at the state level isn’t seen to be as important or grandiose as serving at the national level, calling those who enter state politics the “second XI” or the “also-rans”. Yet here we are, at a time of national crisis no less, and we are supposed to accept that it is OK for a federal government with unequivocal powers over borders and quarantine to abdicate these responsibilities to so-called second-rate administrators?

If that isn’t a dereliction of duty I don’t know what is.

Missed this post (until now, clearly).

Naturally I agree with the embiggened bits since I made the same points a few month back.

MungoMan wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
MungoMan wrote:
Image

Seriously though, would you let those people disembark? How was the Ruby Princess any different? The idea that your can empty a cruise ship into Sydney during a pandemic without testing any of the passengers is criminal negligence. It simply beggars any explanation.

It is well beyond foolhardy and a Cwth stuffup in the first instance. Overseas shipping, overseas arrivals, port quarantine etc are all Cwth responsibilities.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:26 am 
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Sure, but what does the 1948 UN treaty say?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:30 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
Farva wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:


Im blown away that they have named her. She is clearly a shit person but saying so on national news? Seems excessive, and the hate that is about to come her way is massive.


Yep but they are all doing it. Funny how a few weeks ago masks were unnecessary and wearing them was not recommended and that had been the official line for many weeks.

To be fair there, the initial advice was given because people didn’t know how to use masks and the effects of masks was not as well known. Plus they thought that masks would mean people touch their face a lot more with a mask and at the time the thought was that the virus was spread more through touch and surfaces than it might be.
Now we know differently and masks have a lot of benefit. As such the advice has changed.


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