Planet Rugby Forum

Betoota has outdone themselves...

The Member for Manilla George Christensen has told reporters, albeit sheepishly, that his ears pricked up this morning as overheard on the television that euthanasia has been legalised in Queensland.

https://www.betootaadvocate.com/advocat ... h-in-asia/

Slim 293 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:37 am Betoota has outdone themselves...

The Member for Manilla George Christensen has told reporters, albeit sheepishly, that his ears pricked up this morning as overheard on the television that euthanasia has been legalised in Queensland.

https://www.betootaadvocate.com/advocat ... h-in-asia/

Last I heard he got the ell out of there and folded

This'll be inteesting..........

BEIJING (Reuters) -China has filed an application to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), the country's commerce ministry said on Thursday, as the world's second-biggest economy looks to bolster its clout in trade.
Commerce Minister Wang Wentao submitted China's application to join the free trade agreement in a letter to New Zealand's trade minister, Damien O'Connor, the Chinese ministry said in a statement.
The CPTPP was signed by 11 countries including Australia, Canada, Chile, Japan and New Zealand in 2018.
Britain and Thailand have also signalled interest in joining the CPTPP.
Wang and O'Connor held a telephone conference to discuss the next steps following China's application, the Chinese Ministry of Commerce said.

Riiight. How many fred's are you flogging this on then?

MungoMan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:57 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:26 am

Ellafan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:30 am
I understand this stuff, as you know. Brumby-Steve probably knows more than me. That is one reason why I expressed a preference for AIP.

You are as much Armchair Expert as I

I see you missed the bit about no contract in place? That'll add a few years

Plus, did the LNP go to the Election with Nuclear Boats?

Cars and shanks' pony in the main, AFAIK

No contract as there is an 18 month, lets work out what we are going to do phase before any contract. Scotty is going to sign the agreement next week I think. The Betoota Advocate should hold a readers competition for a name tag design that Scotty from marketing should wear so that Joe knows who the fudge he is.

If not for the inclusion of Joe and Boris I would have put this down as an election stunt but it is real if a little premature in its announcement (Hoping to maximise electoral impact no doubt). Maybe they concluded that it would be difficult to keep it a secret once they started to get the wider defence community considering the problem. Most likely a mix of both.

Brumbie_Steve wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:14 am

MungoMan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:57 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:26 am

Ellafan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:30 am
I understand this stuff, as you know. Brumby-Steve probably knows more than me. That is one reason why I expressed a preference for AIP.

You are as much Armchair Expert as I

I see you missed the bit about no contract in place? That'll add a few years

Plus, did the LNP go to the Election with Nuclear Boats?

Cars and shanks' pony in the main, AFAIK

No contract as there is an 18 month, lets work out what we are going to do phase before any contract. Scotty is going to sign the agreement next week I think. The Betoota Advocate should hold a readers competition for a name tag design that Scotty from marketing should wear so that Joe knows who the fudge he is.

If not for the inclusion of Joe and Boris I would have put this down as an election stunt but it is real if a little premature in its announcement (Hoping to maximise electoral impact no doubt). Maybe they concluded that it would be difficult to keep it a secret once they started to get the wider defence community considering the problem. Most likely a mix of both.

Also difficult to get away with keeping schtum about it when the other players have no particular reason to do likewise.

I still don't see why they didn't reduce the French Order/recut it to include the original Nuclear option if that's what they wanted.

So much waste

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:04 am I still don't see why they didn't reduce the French Order/recut it to include the original Nuclear option if that's what they wanted.

So much waste

Who do you want as an ally? Cheese eating surrender monkeys or Taliban playthings? That will dictate what deal gets done. Surely?

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:07 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:04 am I still don't see why they didn't reduce the French Order/recut it to include the original Nuclear option if that's what they wanted.

So much waste

Who do you want as an ally? Cheese eating surrender monkeys or Taliban playthings? That will dictate what deal gets done. Surely?

If you're happy with your money being misspent..

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:07 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:04 am I still don't see why they didn't reduce the French Order/recut it to include the original Nuclear option if that's what they wanted.

So much waste

Who do you want as an ally? Cheese eating surrender monkeys or Taliban playthings? That will dictate what deal gets done. Surely?

Who are we most likely to fight with? Makes sense from an interoperability perspective. Also maintenance and repair will become much easier. Another maintenance port for the Americans wouldn't hurt either.

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:15 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:07 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:04 am I still don't see why they didn't reduce the French Order/recut it to include the original Nuclear option if that's what they wanted.

So much waste

Who do you want as an ally? Cheese eating surrender monkeys or Taliban playthings? That will dictate what deal gets done. Surely?

If you're happy with your money being misspent..

I am not happy with money being misspent. Which is why I dislike governments of any persuasion.

This is less about misspent and more about allies. If shit goes south in our region do you want France or USA as your partner? This is a strategic deal as much as a commercial one.

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:23 am
I am not happy with money being misspent. Which is why I dislike governments of any persuasion.

This is less about misspent and more about allies. If shit goes south in our region do you want France or USA as your partner? This is a strategic deal as much as a commercial one.

This is about Politics, not Defensive capability - if it were about that, we'd be leasing Virginia SSN's immediately.

Oz is a footnote in Asia-pacific theatre - we're literally a barracks

Brumbie_Steve wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:17 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:07 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:04 am I still don't see why they didn't reduce the French Order/recut it to include the original Nuclear option if that's what they wanted.

So much waste

Who do you want as an ally? Cheese eating surrender monkeys or Taliban playthings? That will dictate what deal gets done. Surely?

Who are we most likely to fight with? Makes sense from an interoperability perspective. Also maintenance and repair will become much easier. Another maintenance port for the Americans wouldn't hurt either.

There does seem to be some misunderstanding about the scale of on-going costs of operating a unique class. I'm not sure if the $90billion for the French design includes an estimate of lifetime costs, or is the only the purchase/construction outlay. The Eurocopter debacle lessons may have been learned.

The maintenance port is an interesting point. IF the US provides the expertise to build the facilities/helps pay for it, and provides ongoing work on their boats, they can locate it/them (?2?) away from Sydney/Perth, thus addressing Mr Bandt's sound byte.

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:37 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:23 am
I am not happy with money being misspent. Which is why I dislike governments of any persuasion.

This is less about misspent and more about allies. If shit goes south in our region do you want France or USA as your partner? This is a strategic deal as much as a commercial one.

This is about Politics, not Defensive capability - if it were about that, we'd be leasing Virginia SSN's immediately.

Oz is a footnote in Asia-pacific theatre - we're literally a barracks

Correct. It has very little to do with defensive capability. There is nothing Australia could do defensively (even with these new toys) if China decided it would like some real estate in Bondi. But if we are best mates with the biggest bloke in the room?

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:00 am But if we are best mates with the biggest bloke in the room?

We'll be dropped if it's politically expedient to do so - something that is highly likely

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:03 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:00 am But if we are best mates with the biggest bloke in the room?

We'll be dropped if it's politically expedient to do so - something that is highly likely

Always a risk.

I can see your Geopolitics is like your Covid response POV.....Let her rip!

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:25 am I can see your Geopolitics is like your Covid response POV.....Let her rip!

Interesting take. I will counter with, my view is like a boy scout "be prepared", yours is a bit Chamberlain's "peace in our time".

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:33 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:25 am I can see your Geopolitics is like your Covid response POV.....Let her rip!

Interesting take. I will counter with, my view is like a boy scout "be prepared", yours is a bit Chamberlain's "peace in our time".

Well, as I said, if it's about defence, why no leasing now?

You're the appeaser

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:48 pm

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:33 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:25 am I can see your Geopolitics is like your Covid response POV.....Let her rip!

Interesting take. I will counter with, my view is like a boy scout "be prepared", yours is a bit Chamberlain's "peace in our time".

Well, as I said, if it's about defence, why no leasing now?

You're the appeaser

Again, it is not the equipment, it is the alliance. We are now mates with the biggest boy in the room. We will even get to play with some of his toys. But it is about being mates with the big boy that is the deterrent. Not the toys.

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:23 pm

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:48 pm

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:33 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:25 am I can see your Geopolitics is like your Covid response POV.....Let her rip!

Interesting take. I will counter with, my view is like a boy scout "be prepared", yours is a bit Chamberlain's "peace in our time".

Well, as I said, if it's about defence, why no leasing now?

You're the appeaser

Again, it is not the equipment, it is the alliance. We are now mates with the biggest boy in the room. We will even get to play with some of his toys. But it is about being mates with the big boy that is the deterrent. Not the toys.

No, My initial point was the Cost blowout/lack of kit

You're pivoting the argument and accusing me of being a Nazi appeaser....

So Scomo has pissed off the French so much they've recalled their Ambassador

It's likely that Scomo discussed the deal in the UK and then visited Macron and did not mention it at all.

Excellent diplomatic skills there ....

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 1:30 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:23 pm

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:48 pm

Clogs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:33 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:25 am I can see your Geopolitics is like your Covid response POV.....Let her rip!

Interesting take. I will counter with, my view is like a boy scout "be prepared", yours is a bit Chamberlain's "peace in our time".

Well, as I said, if it's about defence, why no leasing now?

You're the appeaser

Again, it is not the equipment, it is the alliance. We are now mates with the biggest boy in the room. We will even get to play with some of his toys. But it is about being mates with the big boy that is the deterrent. Not the toys.

No, My initial point was the Cost blowout/lack of kit

You're pivoting the argument and accusing me of being a Nazi appeaser....

Fvck me talk about an over reach. I am accusing you of being a Nazi appeaser? That is a truly moronic over reach. Go give yourself an uppercut.

Clogs wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:32 am
Fvck me talk about an over reach. I am accusing you of being a Nazi appeaser? That is a truly moronic over reach. Go give yourself an uppercut.

Um:

yours is a bit Chamberlain's "peace in our time".

Well:

Neville Chamberlain, (born March 18, 1869, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England—died November 9, 1940, Heckfield, near Reading, Hampshire), prime minister of the United Kingdom from May 28, 1937, to May 10, 1940, whose name is identified with the policy of “appeasement” toward Adolf Hitler’s Germany in the period immediately preceding World War II.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ne ... hamberlain

Did you not learn this at school in South Africa?

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:38 am

Clogs wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:32 am
Fvck me talk about an over reach. I am accusing you of being a Nazi appeaser? That is a truly moronic over reach. Go give yourself an uppercut.

Um:

yours is a bit Chamberlain's "peace in our time".

Well:

Neville Chamberlain, (born March 18, 1869, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England—died November 9, 1940, Heckfield, near Reading, Hampshire), prime minister of the United Kingdom from May 28, 1937, to May 10, 1940, whose name is identified with the policy of “appeasement” toward Adolf Hitler’s Germany in the period immediately preceding World War II.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ne ... hamberlain

Did you not learn this at school in South Africa?

How is what I posted accusing you of being a nazi appeaser?

Chamberlain's policy/approach of appeasement is an example of a spectacular failure of recognising the threat. Probably one of the best examples. Your desire to push ahead with the French equipment because of 'money' instead of re aligning ourselves with our allies is a failure to see the very real threat being posed by the Chinese. Fvck the money, counter the threat. It isn't even about the subs anymore. It is an important strategic alliance. France aren't going to get the Chinese to sit up and take notice. The US are.

Nothing to do with being a nazi appeaser. Everything to do with taking the appropriate course of action at the time you need to. Unlike Chamberlain who failed to.

You literally said I was acting like Chamberlain FFS!

Is Comprehension not taught in SA Schools either?

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:10 am You literally said I was acting like Chamberlain FFS!

Is Comprehension not taught in SA Schools either?

I "literally" said that and you are challenging my comprehension skills?

APPEASEMENT

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:44 am APPEASEMENT

Appeasement is not a dirty word. It has de-escalated many crises.

Every married bloke in Australia/the world, who wishes to remain married, practises appeasement on an at least monthly basis.

Ellafan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:20 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:44 am APPEASEMENT

Appeasement is not a dirty word. It has de-escalated many crises.

Every married bloke in Australia/the world, who wishes to remain married, practises appeasement on an at least monthly basis.

I think, considering your conversations re Nazis, you should:

Morrison presser at 3.30pm...

Samantha Maiden @samanthamaiden

Looks like Christian Porter’s fate is sealed. More to come shortly

Porter gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooone!

Resigns from ministry...

Slim 293 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:40 am Porter gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooone!

Resigns from ministry...

And rightly so his position is untenable. He was pretty dumb in his actions.

Born to rule people like him and the latest Downer never understand that these kind of things are wrong.

It's why I feel there should be a mandatory generational gap between family members running for parliament

Slim 293 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:40 am Porter gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooone!

Resigns from ministry...

Interesting, because only a few days ago Ellafan was ardently defending Christian Porter's behaviour. Presumably Ellafan thinks that Porter has resigned for no reason?

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:53 am

Ellafan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:20 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:44 am APPEASEMENT

Appeasement is not a dirty word. It has de-escalated many crises.

Every married bloke in Australia/the world, who wishes to remain married, practises appeasement on an at least monthly basis.

I think, considering your conversations re Nazis, you should:

snip

The Nazis couldn't be appeased, because ... Nazis. Appeasement was not the right approach in that instance. Appeasement has a role in civilised circumstances.

Ellafan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:43 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:53 am

Ellafan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:20 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:44 am APPEASEMENT

Appeasement is not a dirty word. It has de-escalated many crises.

Every married bloke in Australia/the world, who wishes to remain married, practises appeasement on an at least monthly basis.

I think, considering your conversations re Nazis, you should:

snip

The Nazis couldn't be appeased, because ... Nazis. Appeasement was not the right approach in that instance. Appeasement has a role in civilised circumstances.

Meh, you've cut the reference

Ali's Choice wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:03 am

Slim 293 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:40 am Porter gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooone!

Resigns from ministry...

Interesting, because only a few days ago Ellafan was ardently defending Christian Porter's behaviour. Presumably Ellafan thinks that Porter has resigned for no reason?

Thank you for your question, I'll ignore it's typically cynical tone, and its inherent strawman and simply agree his position had become untenable. The anti-LNP ABC have politically assassinated him.

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:48 am

Ellafan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:43 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:53 am

Ellafan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 5:20 am

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:44 am APPEASEMENT

Appeasement is not a dirty word. It has de-escalated many crises.

Every married bloke in Australia/the world, who wishes to remain married, practises appeasement on an at least monthly basis.

I think, considering your conversations re Nazis, you should:

snip

The Nazis couldn't be appeased, because ... Nazis. Appeasement was not the right approach in that instance. Appeasement has a role in civilised circumstances.

Meh, you've cut the reference

Clearly I have failed to understand the deeper meaning of Homer hiding in the bushes. Not a Simpson's watcher.