The Australian Politics Thread

All things Rugby

Whos Going to Lead the Labor Rabble

Albo
7
35%
Plibbers
1
5%
Bowen
1
5%
Chalmers
4
20%
Uncle Tony
1
5%
Clive Palmer
3
15%
George Smith
3
15%
 
Total votes: 20

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Ali's Choice
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:58 am AC - it's amazing given how many people they could appeal to that the ALP doesn't. It highlights just how shit they were at the last election. And given that list - which is a smorgasbord - they need to sort out what they really stand for (and obviously what would make them electable).

And my area is bluer, and older, than Mosman :-)
Bradfield - 60% of votes to LIberal (down 0.8%)
In Mosman they're new age LIberals in comparison - as Tony found out...
The ALP stands for more than the Coalition do.

There are a number of reasons why the ALP lost the last election. They took an agenda to the previous election that was far too big, and were savaged by the media over costings. Which is ironic given that dumpster fire which is the Coalition's Federal budget. Clive Palmer spending more money than both major parties combined on ads in QLD which warned of the ALP's death taxes and trillion dollar deficit weren't helpful either. In the lead up to the last Federal election Palmer was running two ads every single ad break on every commercial TV channel in QLD.
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:27 am I’m not sure who that is ...

On min wage it’s then a political position - labour already pitches for more (but because they’re not good enough to get into power it’s decided by the liberals).

On conditions a variety of government organisations - like it is already.
You don't know who that is? Bloody hell, don't you read newspapers or watch the news? He's everywhere when it comes to Business matters.

:|

As for your comment about "Not good enough to get into power", that's spectacularly naive considering the media landscape here in Oz.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:58 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:27 am I’m not sure who that is ...

On min wage it’s then a political position - labour already pitches for more (but because they’re not good enough to get into power it’s decided by the liberals).

On conditions a variety of government organisations - like it is already.
You don't know who that is? Bloody hell, don't you read newspapers or watch the news? He's everywhere when it comes to Business matters.

:|

As for your comment about "Not good enough to get into power", that's spectacularly naive considering the media landscape here in Oz.
Nope - don’t ever remember seeing the name. I read SMH, and watch ABC news, SBS world news and BBC. I occasionally read AFR and Economist.

Whilst I appreciate you condescending view (if you’re naive can you be even more naive?) the reality is the ALP were / are still not good enough. A few points:
- it’s not like media position was a surprise
- they have the opportunity to woo Murdoch- and have choosen not to
- despite that exact media landscape Labor can win - as recently demonstrated in Queensland.

As AC said there were many reasons the ALP lost - he mentions 2. 1 - the policy platform on which they stood- is completely in their own to control.

In my view the ALP can’t work out what they want to really stand for - and are torn. ScoMo has lured the ‘quiet Australian’ very well. I can’t see that changing at the moment - Albo seems like a decent guy but charisma-less. Maybe he’s holding his powder dry for an election...
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

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kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:43 am In my view the ALP can’t work out what they want to really stand for - and are torn. ScoMo has lured the ‘quiet Australian’ very well. I can’t see that changing at the moment - Albo seems like a decent guy but charisma-less. Maybe he’s holding his powder dry for an election...
You keep repeating this line of argument. It's as if you are demanding that the ALP reduce their policy agenda to a four work slogan, and only that will convince you that they have worked out "what they really stand for". Stop the boats? Stop the taxes? Stop the Immigrants?
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by kiwigreg369 »

I’m not a member of the ALP and I’ll leave it up to them to articulate what they stand for.

My opinion is that until they identify a policy set that they can position to the voting public and win votes with they remain unelectable.

In terms of a policy to stop the immigrants it worked for AP in Queensland (close the borders, Queeensland for Queenslanders). At this stage the polices the federal ALP have been pursuing are clearly wrong, or wrongly positioned, to win votes.
So do they need to have less, better articulated, policies that they can win votes with the answer must be yes.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

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kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:07 am I’m not a member of the ALP and I’ll leave it up to them to articulate what they stand for.

My opinion is that until they identify a policy set that they can position to the voting public and win votes with they remain unelectable.

In terms of a policy to stop the immigrants it worked for AP in Queensland (close the borders, Queeensland for Queenslanders). At this stage the polices the federal ALP have been pursuing are clearly wrong, or wrongly positioned, to win votes.
So do they need to have less, better articulated, policies that they can win votes with the answer must be yes.
So you'r demanding cheap four word slogans? Stop the debt? That's to be expected from a Coalition voter.

Also you're deluded if you think Palaszczuk ran on a policy of stopping immigrants. There's currently a once in a century global pandemic of this thing called Covid-19. You may have heard of it? And Queenslanders have been happy that she has managed this pandemic very well. One of the measures she adopted was restricting access to plague ridden NSW, which has suffered a death rate 10x that of QLD. If only Berejaklian had spent less time shredding documents and more time keeping her people safe.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Yes, I’m demanding it, well spotted.

And if a policy set is a four word slogan you really are dumbing things down...

As for Queensland - being tough on borders has certainly worked.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:20 pm Yes, I’m demanding it, well spotted.

And if a policy set is a four word slogan you really are dumbing things down...

As for Queensland - being tough on borders has certainly worked.
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Keeping QLD'ers safe from the southern plague during a global pandemic certainly worked for Palaszcuk. Your baseless claims that immigration was an important issue in the recently held QLD election was just weird.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:43 am
Nope - don’t ever remember seeing the name. I read SMH, and watch ABC news, SBS world news and BBC. I occasionally read AFR and Economist.

Whilst I appreciate you condescending view (if you’re naive can you be even more naive?) the reality is the ALP were / are still not good enough. A few points:
- it’s not like media position was a surprise
- they have the opportunity to woo Murdoch- and have choosen not to
- despite that exact media landscape Labor can win - as recently demonstrated in Queensland.

As AC said there were many reasons the ALP lost - he mentions 2. 1 - the policy platform on which they stood- is completely in their own to control.

In my view the ALP can’t work out what they want to really stand for - and are torn. ScoMo has lured the ‘quiet Australian’ very well. I can’t see that changing at the moment - Albo seems like a decent guy but charisma-less. Maybe he’s holding his powder dry for an election...
I'm still calling bullshit on you not knowing Innes Willox - he's all over the SMH and ABC, they always go to him on the News as a talk head.

Image
Australian Industry Group chief executive Innes Willox said alternatives to an increase to direct welfare payments in 2021 should be considered before simply increasing the $40-a-day base rate. "If there is to be a reassessment of the JobSeeker base rate, account should be taken of the degree to which any change increases work disincentives," Mr Willox said.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 56dvz.html
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Pat - he's in the SMH today I think - i recognised his profile shot. Will look out for what he has to say going forward.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:58 am Pat - he's in the SMH today I think - i recognised his profile shot. Will look out for what he has to say going forward.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt :D

Mind you, his story has changed from when he was last on the ABC and he was happy for JobKeeper as his 2 daughters were on it
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Ellafan »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:56 am I can picture Sluggy and Greg in their tophat and tails standing up for the Farriers and hostelry staff when Cars first arrived :lol:

How can you paint yourself capitalist and then want to artificially control the market forces.... :blush:
I like horses. And horsepower. It isn't a binary choice.

Anyway, it is possible to have a capitalist based economy that rewards personal initiative & efficiency, while having some systematic social behaviour control mechanisms imposed on it. At the Federal level, the Australian economy has always been exactly that. The Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission was created ab initio as part of that. These days we have ASIC, HREOC, APRA, and too many others to count. It isn't a binary choice either. Its a public-private partnership, to borrow a phrase from Sir Humphrey. It both retards efficiency, and serves what the electors, via their representatives, consider a useful social function.

Which reminds me, all those commissions and authorities and quangos do fulfil another function of great importance to ex- politicians (and industry/union leaders due a favour) -
The term ‘quango’ — ‘quasi-autonomous non-government organisation’ — became famous in 1980. Episode seven of ‘Yes Minister’ has Sir Humphrey concealing a critical report on a major building project and instead telling the minister everything is on track. Minister Hacker then appears on the BBC, where he praises the project as an example of a public-private partnership.

Banker Desmond Glazebrook is prepared to bail the project out, in exchange for a lucrative appointment as chair of a quango. But how can Hacker and Sir Humphrey silence Joe Morgan, the unionist who knows the truth about the project? Hacker has a brainwave. ‘Glazebrook might need a Deputy Chairman, one with real experience of industry. A trade unionist perhaps.’ Humphrey thinks this is an awfully good idea. ‘It takes two to quango, Minister.’

The ‘Yes Minister’ episode refers to Britain having an incredible 8000 quangos. In Australia today, the number across the federal and state governments is even higher than that...

In the famous ‘Yes Minister’ episode, political advisor Frank suggests a new regime where an independent Select Committee of Parliament makes all appointments to quangos, to “end the scandal of ministerial patronage, all those thousands of jobs for the boys — get the best men for the job, instead of old chums, party hacks, and you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours”. In response, Sir Humphrey deploys his most damning bureaucratic criticisms: Frank’s proposal is ‘original’, ‘imaginative’ and ‘novel’.

https://www.themandarin.com.au/125268-q ... ew-wilkie/
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

QUANGOs are a convervative creation

Nice to see Mike Baird stroll into a new role
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Ellafan »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:16 am QUANGOs are a convervative creation

.....
You are going to need to present some granular level evidence for that proposition to be considered seriously.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

Ellafan wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:39 am
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:16 am QUANGOs are a convervative creation

.....
You are going to need to present some granular level evidence for that proposition to be considered seriously.
It's use in modern parlance literally comes from the John Major's era as PM in the UK
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Ellafan »

Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:29 am
Ellafan wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:39 am
Pat the Ex Mat wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:16 am QUANGOs are a convervative creation

.....
You are going to need to present some granular level evidence for that proposition to be considered seriously.
It's use in modern parlance literally comes from the John Major's era as PM in the UK
IIRC wasn't Mrs Thatcher PM in 1980 when the abovementioned Yes Minister episode aired?

Anyway, they have been around for way longer than that.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

They have, but the Murdoch media latched onto them in Major's regime
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

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Ali's Choice wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:53 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:43 am In my view the ALP can’t work out what they want to really stand for - and are torn. ScoMo has lured the ‘quiet Australian’ very well. I can’t see that changing at the moment - Albo seems like a decent guy but charisma-less. Maybe he’s holding his powder dry for an election...
You keep repeating this line of argument. It's as if you are demanding that the ALP reduce their policy agenda to a four work slogan, and only that will convince you that they have worked out "what they really stand for". Stop the boats? Stop the taxes? Stop the Immigrants?
Own the Libs. :)
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by kiwigreg369 »

6.Jones wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:09 pm
Ali's Choice wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:53 am
kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:43 am In my view the ALP can’t work out what they want to really stand for - and are torn. ScoMo has lured the ‘quiet Australian’ very well. I can’t see that changing at the moment - Albo seems like a decent guy but charisma-less. Maybe he’s holding his powder dry for an election...
You keep repeating this line of argument. It's as if you are demanding that the ALP reduce their policy agenda to a four work slogan, and only that will convince you that they have worked out "what they really stand for". Stop the boats? Stop the taxes? Stop the Immigrants?
Own the Libs. :)
From last week - on the topic of what the ALP should be. Great comment in the comments about how being right of centre (for the left) might have got them where they are, hence shouldn't they go even more left (I disagree in principle but interesting view). Bowen was part of the problem last time.
'Don't boil the ocean': Labor Right plots the party's return to power
Rob Harris
December 3, 2020 — 8.00pm

Leading Labor figures are warning the party will again fail at the next federal election unless it reflects on why it lost its once-reliable voter base, drops its left-wing populism, reconnects with the suburbs and stops scoffing at parents who choose to send their children to faith-based schools.

As the opposition grapples with an identity crisis after three successive federal election losses, Labor frontbencher Chris Bowen has warned his party will lose the next election if it attempts to "boil the ocean" with a complex array of promises and policies.

ALP national president Wayne Swan has also cautioned the party against being a "pressure group" or a "wine and cheese society" and urged Anthony Albanese's federal caucus to relentlessly focus on how it can return to government.

The pair is among 30 Labor Right frontbench MPs, unionists and faction activists, including future leadership aspirant Jim Chalmers, who have penned essays on how Labor must govern in post-COVID-19 Australia in a book titled The Write Stuff: Voices of Unity on Labor's Future.

In a call to arms for the opposition to strip back its next election agenda and focus instead on a handful of agreed priorities, Mr Bowen, who oversaw Labor's contentious policies to end negative gearing and scrap franking credits, says the party must develop a "workable plan that people trust".

In another admission of Labor's errors during his time as shadow treasurer, Mr Bowen says a small but ambitious agenda would be "less disconcerting" and have the advantage of being easier to explain as well as digest.

"Such an approach also reduces the capacity for scare campaigns to sow doubt or distrust with our agenda and allows us to more readily address these head on in discrete battles rather than defending a broad front," he writes in his essay.

The book's release comes amid debate over the party's direction under current leader Anthony Albanese and fears from some MPs its ambitious climate change promises have alienated the party's blue-collar voter base in suburban and regional Australia.

Mr Bowen says Labor must acknowledge the fears of workers who are concerned that their jobs and communities are already insecure enough without the "added insecurity caused by action on climate change".

"But concerns about insecurity in the face of climate change action mirror the concerns many had about floating the dollar, tearing down tariffs, competition policy and financial deregulation (some of which occurred during a recession)", he writes.

The book is edited by Nick Dyrenfurth, head of Right faction think-tank the John Curtin Research Centre, and Australian Workers' Union assistant national secretary Misha Zelinsky, who are both touted as future Labor MPs.

South Australian senator Marielle Smith, widely viewed as a future frontbencher, warned Labor risked alienating Australian families if it did not support their "dreams, goals and aspirations".

"Labor politicians must never look down on the vast majority of Australians who identify financial security among their top goals," she writes.

"Financial security for family is a core goal and failing to feel this anxiety and respond to it fulsomely can make Labor seem aloof or not connected with what is occurring on the ground in Australian communities."


In her chapter, Family Is Everything, Senator Smith writes Labor should show more respect to parents who choose to send their children to faith-based schools.

"There are valid reasons so many families work countless overtime shifts and make significant financial sacrifices to send their children to low-fee private schools," she writes.

"We can be the party of public education without being a party that scoffs at those who seek something different to the public system and who are prepared to make sacrifices to provide that for their kids."

Jim Chalmers warns in his chapter, The Future of Labor, that it cannot continue to live in its past glories.

"Labor's only path to victory is as the party of the future," he writes. "Our task is not just to celebrate a long list of Labor achievements but to lengthen it. Not to retrace the steps of our heroes but to walk forward and further in their direction."

Former treasurer Wayne Swan says Labor needs to be "ruthlessly and relentlessly fixated" on winning elections because it will remain powerless unless it is in government.

Mr Swan says the recent experience of progressive parties in Britain, the United States and Europe is that the rise of the populist right has hollowed out centre-left voter support among working-class and lower-income earners.

Victorian senator Kimberley Kitching writes in her chapter, Australia in an Authoritarian World, that a future Labor government needs to do more to empower students and staff to resist authoritarian politics and foreign influence in our universities.

She says this could be done by implementing compulsory civics classes in schools, instituting ethics and morality standards at universities and by better engaging with immigrant communities.

The review into the ALP's 2019 federal election loss identified that economically insecure, low-income voters in outer-urban and regional Australia moved against Labor while tertiary-educated, higher-income Australians swung strongly towards the party. Labor needed to reconnect with people of faith on social justice issues and emphasise its historic links with mainstream churches, it found.

"There is no question a robust economic message is a pre-condition for winning back working-class votes, but it doesn't clinch the deal. In 2019 we failed to convince working people we would protect and lift their living standards."

The Write Stuff: Voice of Unity on Labor's Future, edited by Nick Dyrenfurth and Misha Zelinsky, is published by Connor Court Publishing.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

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And from today - the party of the worker (is this the coalition now?) sets out protections for casual workers. I've not read any more details than in the article - but i can't imagine it's bad for business. This highlights how by not being in power the Libs can claim more of the centre ground / traditional 'working class' voters (aka the silent ...)
Casual workers earn new right to permanent employment under workplace reforms
By Nick Bonyhady and Rob Harris
December 7, 2020 — 12.00am

Casual workers who have been with the same employer for a year and in regular shifts for six months must be offered permanent employment under the federal government's new workplace reforms aimed at tackling insecure work.

The Morrison government will on Monday announce a new statutory definition of casual employment among several measures designed to bring more certainty to the workforce following the coronavirus pandemic.

There are 2.6 million casual employees in Australia - the sector worst hit by the COVID-19 outbreak - with 1.35 million of them working regular shifts for their employer for 12 months or more.

The industrial relations changes will also tackle the "double dipping" problem created by a recent Federal Court decision which ruled some "casual" workers were able to claim both annual leave and casual loadings typically worth 25 per cent of their pay.

But the new laws are poised for a fight, with Australian Council of Trade Unions secretary Sally McManus claiming they will only "entrench" casual work.

Industrial Relations Minister Christian Porter said with so many people still out of work, or doing fewer hours, the government could not stand by when employers were delaying making hiring decisions because of ongoing confusion about the legal status of casual employment.

"Our definition of casual employment is likely broader than some business groups had wanted, unions are likely to say we should have made the definition broader still, suggesting to me that we have struck the right balance on this issue and delivered a fair and equitable outcome that will benefit both workers and employers," he said.

Mr Porter will introduce an omnibus bill to Federal Parliament on Wednesday which will also include a more flexible interpretation of the Better Off Overall Test by the Fair Work Commission, award simplification for employers to pay loaded rates and criminal charges for employers who egregiously, recklessly and knowingly underpay workers.

The proposed changes land between some of the union and employer positions by offering a new legal definition for which workers are casuals, who typically get an extra 25 per cent in pay but go without sick leave and paid holidays.

They restrict casual work to employees who do not know when or how much more work they will get from their bosses, as determined “objectively” by the courts. That aligns with union calls to restrict casual work to only “genuine” casuals and cuts across some employers’ arguments that anyone labelled a casual and paid as such is one.

The changes propose that if an employee declines an initial offer to convert from casual to permanent work, a further right to request will be available every six months, as long as they remain eligible. But an employer may decide not to make an offer or accept an employee's request if they have reasonable grounds not to do so, consistent with arrangements established by the Fair Work Commission.

Staff who have been in the job for 12 months and working a regular pattern of hours for six will get the offer. However, employers have an escape hatch if going to a permanent role would require a significant change to the workers’ hours or be unreasonable for the business.

Business Council of Australia chief executive Jennifer Westacott, who was part of the union and employer negotiations, said it would make an "enormous difference" to the issues she had raised for a long time.

“Nobody ever expected radical reform because radical reform would have been divisive reform. We need to move beyond that,” she said.

Ms McManus said it was a "huge missed opportunity" to begin to make jobs more secure and turn around the number of casual and insecure jobs.

“The proposal makes it almost impossible for casual workers to convert to permanent work as if an employer is unreasonable or does not offer them permanent employment, there is little they can do about it," she said.

But the union movement’s efforts to speak with one voice about the government’s reforms were dealt a blow on Sunday when one division of the 150,000 member Construction, Forestry, Maritime, Mining and Energy Union launched a blistering attack on another.

Dave Noonan, secretary of the union’s construction division, which is at odds with its mining and manufacturing divisions, suggested mining secretary Tony Maher had done a “secret deal” with Mr Porter to craft new legislation allowing unions like the CFMMEU to split.

“The government will use this bill to divert attention from the Industrial Relations Omnibus Bill it is putting to Parliament next week, which is the beginning of a march back to WorkChoices,” said Mr Noonan, whose block have a majority in the union's national organs.

Mr Maher and Mr Noonan fell out over John Setka, the union’s Victorian construction division secretary, who pleaded guilty to harassing his wife last year and, his supporters believe, did not receive enough support from the mining and manufacturing divisions.

Under law merged unions cannot go back to their previous separate parts after several years as a single entity, which Mr Porter last week announced plans to change.

Mr Maher said disamalgamation provisions should be more workable.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Ellafan »

The other piece of legislation that is due is the law enabling the federal gvt to can any deals that states or local gvt, or universities do with foreign countries. Dictator Dan is seething because his belt and road deal* with you-know-who is about to go south.

I'll put some detail on this in the Australia-China topic.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

If only our media was so interested in the Incumbent LNP's Policies.....
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Slim 293 »

The party of the worker... what?
The bill creates a path for employers to cut pay due to the impact of Covid-19 on their business, wipes out backpay claims for misclassified casuals, and proposes new flexibility for part-time workers to pick up shifts without overtime rates.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -workplace
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

Slim 293 wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:30 pm The party of the worker... what?
The bill creates a path for employers to cut pay due to the impact of Covid-19 on their business, wipes out backpay claims for misclassified casuals, and proposes new flexibility for part-time workers to pick up shifts without overtime rates.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -workplace
If people continue to vote this kind of crap in, good luck for those who don't have old-school tie connections
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

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I knew it couldn't be bad for business - so there are clearly gains for business in the details.

----

I know that it's almost like a religion for you Mat but over 7m people and over half of the Aussie electorate (two party preferred) don't have old school ties.

They vote coalition because it best represents their way of thinking and aspirations.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Ellafan »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:43 am I knew it couldn't be bad for business - so there are clearly gains for business in the details.

----

I know that it's almost like a religion for you Mat but over 7m people and over half of the Aussie electorate (two party preferred) don't have old school ties.

They vote coalition because it best represents their way of thinking and aspirations.
Does that mean 25 - 7 = 18 million do have old school ties?
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Nope - 18 million didn't vote coalition .. so definitely no old school ties, even the babies. Except the Labor leaders who do have old school ties - as they went to old schools...
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:43 am I knew it couldn't be bad for business - so there are clearly gains for business in the details.

----

I know that it's almost like a religion for you Mat but over 7m people and over half of the Aussie electorate (two party preferred) don't have old school ties.

They vote coalition because it best represents their way of thinking and aspirations.
I'm an atheist, so no, it's not a religion.

I'm actually just concerned for the young people entering the workforce - if you think this legislation will allow them to prosper, you are clearly not well versed in Casualisation of the workforce.

Your mate Innes (Yes, you admit to knowing him now), likes this policy..... I rest my case.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by kiwigreg369 »

i suspect you're absolutely right about casualisation.
But i'm not young and haven't asked anyone that is.

You personally have taken the path to contract - which worked for you and is a form of casualisation compared to be an employee. I've always (until this job) chosen the later.

Different strokes for folks etc but i can't believe it is a good thing for the average worker - otherwise they wouldn't do it. Some will be better off.
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Ellafan
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Ellafan »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:55 am i suspect you're absolutely right about casualisation.
But i'm not young and haven't asked anyone that is.

You personally have taken the path to contract - which worked for you and is a form of casualisation compared to be an employee. I've always (until this job) chosen the later.

Different strokes for folks etc but i can't believe it is a good thing for the average worker - otherwise they wouldn't do it. Some will be better off.
What do you each define "old school tie" connections to mean? What % of workers are said to have them? In terms of what areas of work, as well?

The classical concept of such connections seems to relate mainly to the professions, which traditionally were generally populated by sole practitioners or small partnerships. That has fallen away in recent decades, from the 1980's on. It is more about how the academic transcript reads - and not just starting a career. And you get a contract, not a permanent position, as the more prevalent form of engagement.
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:55 am i suspect you're absolutely right about casualisation.
But i'm not young and haven't asked anyone that is.

You personally have taken the path to contract - which worked for you and is a form of casualisation compared to be an employee. I've always (until this job) chosen the later.

Different strokes for folks etc but i can't believe it is a good thing for the average worker - otherwise they wouldn't do it. Some will be better off.
But therein lies the rub.

Contractors get paid a much higher rate than the full-time position and have acces to many mechanisms to assist them.

"Casuals" which are referred to in this bill have none of this - I for one wouldn't be happy to be on a contract that means I have no knowledge of the shifts I'd be working on from week to week - yes, on paper this is supposed to be notifed in advance, but is rarely done. Likewise, the additional pay to compensate for no holiday or sick pay is generally not sufficient.

Whilst casuals have the right to ask for full-time roles after 12 months, in practice they won't due to being not offered anymore shifts (But remain on the books so if they leave, it's hard to get support from CentreLink).

I'm always surprised at the response to this kind of legislation - it's blatantly stacked against employees.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

Tim Wilson on Twitter today pleading with Australians to cash in $10,000 of their super so they can put it towards a home deposit.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TimWilsonMP/ ... 0392955905
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

He really is a POS

Dead eyes
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Salient
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Salient »

kiwigreg369 wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:43 am I knew it couldn't be bad for business - so there are clearly gains for business in the details.

----

I know that it's almost like a religion for you Mat but over 7m people and over half of the Aussie electorate (two party preferred) don't have old school ties.

They vote coalition because it best represents their way of thinking and aspirations.
Which apparently can be summed up in four word slogans that the LNP don't have any notion of implementing.

Do we want to talk Kyoto, denying climate change in the face of overwhelming evidence, the victimisation and general scaremongering about the unemployed, or indeed the out and out lie of children overboard? But well fudge it, a four word slogan is getting the message across to the great unwashed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmCDxmZI3I8
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Ali's Choice
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

New Immigration Minister Alex Hawke has vowed to track down the revellers from the 'Bronte Beach Party' and deport them. An interesting use of Federal govt resources given they have refused to accept responsibility for Hotel Quarantine, and they have refused to support the QLD and Victoria state governments to secure their borders to slow the spread of COVID-19 across the country.
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by grievous »

Ali's Choice wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:10 am New Immigration Minister Alex Hawke has vowed to track down the revellers from the 'Bronte Beach Party' and deport them. An interesting use of Federal govt resources given they have refused to accept responsibility for Hotel Quarantine, and they have refused to support the QLD and Victoria state governments to secure their borders to slow the spread of COVID-19 across the country.
Hang on
How do deport locals?
You and Guy said they weren’t backpackers.
You hysterically claimed that had all left.
Or has Hawke been taking info from lying health ministers as Guy claimed?
Please include an apology in your response.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

grievous wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:23 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:10 am New Immigration Minister Alex Hawke has vowed to track down the revellers from the 'Bronte Beach Party' and deport them. An interesting use of Federal govt resources given they have refused to accept responsibility for Hotel Quarantine, and they have refused to support the QLD and Victoria state governments to secure their borders to slow the spread of COVID-19 across the country.
Hang on
How do deport locals?
You and Guy said they weren’t backpackers.
You hysterically claimed that had all left.
Or has Hawke been taking info from lying health ministers as Guy claimed?
Please include an apology in your response.
Strange comment. You yourself boasted that there was a mix of locals and "backpacker scum" at the Bronte Beach Party which you watched closely from 100 metres away. Presumably the foreigners will be deported or imprisoned for years on Nauru, and the locals will be strip searched?
grievous
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by grievous »

Ali's Choice wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:26 am
grievous wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:23 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:10 am New Immigration Minister Alex Hawke has vowed to track down the revellers from the 'Bronte Beach Party' and deport them. An interesting use of Federal govt resources given they have refused to accept responsibility for Hotel Quarantine, and they have refused to support the QLD and Victoria state governments to secure their borders to slow the spread of COVID-19 across the country.
Hang on
How do deport locals?
You and Guy said they weren’t backpackers.
You hysterically claimed that had all left.
Or has Hawke been taking info from lying health ministers as Guy claimed?
Please include an apology in your response.
Strange comment. You yourself boasted that there was a mix of locals and "backpacker scum" at the Bronte Beach Party which you watched closely from 100 metres away. Presumably the foreigners will be deported or imprisoned for years on Nauru, and the locals will be strip searched?
That twice you’ve looked completely stupid on this topic.
Might teach to weigh in on Guys coat tails next time, I’m only only saying to stop you embarrassing yourself so much lately frankly it’s been hard to watch.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Ali's Choice »

grievous wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:51 am That twice you’ve looked completely stupid on this topic.
Might teach to weigh in on Guys coat tails next time, I’m only only saying to stop you embarrassing yourself so much lately frankly it’s been hard to watch.
I've only embarrassed myself in your head mate :thumbup:
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: The Australian Politics Thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

grievous wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:51 am [to stop you embarrassing yourself so much lately frankly it’s been hard to watch.
I don't know, your highly misogynistic comments on the Covod thread was pretty embarrassing
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