Planet Rugby Forum

DOB wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:09 pm Dumoulin watching the big screen with a "Who the fcuk farted" look on his face.

It was absolutely classic.

Call me a cynic, but watching cycling for 20-odd years, I don't feel comfortable with Pogacar today.

Not accusing at all, and want to be full of admiration. I'm just struggling.

Wow, mindblown! Carnage all over the mountain.

Big middle finger stuck up at those who dislike Time Trials

Wiggins suggesting that Pagacar could go on to be greater than Mercx FFS.

blindcider wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:11 pm Wow, mindblown! Carnage all over the mountain.

Big middle finger stuck up at those who dislike Time Trials

I love time trials. Just would like to see it earlier in the Tour.

That was just outstanding!!!

Delighted for Porte who went through so much bad luck and deserved such a finish.

Absolutely incredible for Pogacar! Was not expecting that. And to think of the relative riches of JV and UAE. Chap did it a lot himself.

Great to see the youth winning the last 2 TdFs.

Hope to see Bennett win tomorrow too.

That was just incredible! What a race! Yellow, white and polka dot jerseys won.

What an insane TT by Pogacar! Roglic must be as sick as a dog

need Sam to get that intermediate sprint tomorrow, then he can go full for the sprint finish with no pressure.

I'd say Ewen is favourite for the stage win though

Thank you DOB and TheFrog for your explanation yesterday, both the explanations makes sense. Cheers

Salanya wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:10 pm Call me a cynic, but watching cycling for 20-odd years, I don't feel comfortable with Pogacar today.

Not accusing at all, and want to be full of admiration. I'm just struggling.

You might find it enlightening to read up on the background of the CEO of his team.

Salanya wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:10 pm Call me a cynic, but watching cycling for 20-odd years, I don't feel comfortable with Pogacar today.

Not accusing at all, and want to be full of admiration. I'm just struggling.

BlackMac wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:11 pm Wiggins suggesting that Pagacar could go on to be greater than Mercx FFS.

I'm trying to find a middle ground between these 2 ideas. Pog may have a long, excellent career without never coming close to any particular past results of any particular legendary champions of yesteryear.

But the questions about "where did this kid come from" do sound a bit more serious when you take a close look at the history of the team and management behind him. People who know more about numbers than I have looked at the data that his team produced for his attack on the Peyresourde (the only time other than the TT that he really put time into anyone) and said it was high, but not unlegit. Hopefully the testing and biological passport etc etc are enough that whatever cheating that does go on in the peloton (and there's no doubt that there's some), that it isn't so out there that a rider with a conscience can't compete.

Also, I can't help thinking that in a Tour where every other top GC competitor either arrived hurt, got hurt, or didn't show up at the start, maybe the standard just wasn't quite that high. And when you see RIchie "I've blown me GC again, mate" Porte in 3rd, I can't help thinking there was a lack of competition; in the top 10, the only past GT winner other than Roglic, was his teammate Dumoulin. The only 3 other GT winners in the finishing field are in the 11-20 spots, all with valid reasons why they didn't finish higher.

dinsdale wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:00 am

Salanya wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:10 pm Call me a cynic, but watching cycling for 20-odd years, I don't feel comfortable with Pogacar today.

Not accusing at all, and want to be full of admiration. I'm just struggling.

You might find it enlightening to read up on the background of the CEO of his team.

Jesus, didn't realise that. Not exactly the sort of guy you would expect a new team to chose if they were wanting to show the world their anti doping credentials.
I see a number of the forums are already awash with suspicion. Generally the feeling is that the TT win was just too impressive, especially when you look at the competition and the fact that Pog was struggling to stay anywhere near Roglic on stage 17.

What is the PED of choice these days and what effects does it have?

Also what kind of “legal” supplements does your average rider take?

Jim Lahey wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:49 am What is the PED of choice these days and what effects does it have?

Also what kind of “legal” supplements does your average rider take?

Synthetic haemoglobin.

But even that's 3 and 4 years ago. The authorities are always playing catchup on these things.

BlackMac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:41 am

dinsdale wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:00 am

Salanya wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:10 pm Call me a cynic, but watching cycling for 20-odd years, I don't feel comfortable with Pogacar today.

Not accusing at all, and want to be full of admiration. I'm just struggling.

You might find it enlightening to read up on the background of the CEO of his team.

Jesus, didn't realise that. Not exactly the sort of guy you would expect a new team to chose if they were wanting to show the world their anti doping credentials.
I see a number of the forums are already awash with suspicion. Generally the feeling is that the TT win was just too impressive, especially when you look at the competition and the fact that Pog was struggling to stay anywhere near Roglic on stage 17.

Many in the cycling world will have a link to doping/cheating in some way. It's a small world too, hence these people staying in roles, despite the changes. So trying not to judge the cyclist on the CEO (what can I say, I'm an optimist...)

But yeah, that TT was crazy. Not so much putting the time on Roglic, but putting more than a minute on Dumoulin and Van Aert, who would have been riding for the TT victory themselves. It's just too impressive.

Jim Lahey wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:49 am What is the PED of choice these days and what effects does it have?

Also what kind of “legal” supplements does your average rider take?

I'm sticking with pork pies.

Sadly, after the rise of British cycling raising eyebrows, it is the rise of Slovenian cycling that gets the negative attention. 4 slovenian cyclists at the race, 1 and 2 in the ranking, 4 stage victories...

They almost make us forget Van Aert who climbs with the best, beats Alaphilippe on hilly ground, outsprints the bunch and makes the podium of an ITT.

Or how Quickstep riders have that ability to shine when riding for that team and fade when they leave the squad.

It's a lovely sport for the cynics but then again it hasn't helped itself.

Bennett wins

What an achievement for Sam! Delighted.

Amazing achievement for Bennett, the only "old" head on the podium given that all 3 other jerseys were Pogacar's!

For non-Irishers, good piece from the IT on Bennett.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other- ... -1.4358469

Kelly and Roche didn't leave many "firsts" for the Irish coming up behind them in cycling, so a Champs Elysees win is a great one to tick off.

TdF Green jersey and 2 stage wins is real "seat-at-the-top-table" stuff.

Feel sorry for Bennett, not even the first guy from his village to win the green jersey, good effort though.

Arkea being investigated for doping....

Plus ça change.

jezzer wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:43 pm Arkea being investigated for doping....

Plus ça change.

Specifically, the Quintana brothers, plus Winner Anacona. So the 3 Colombians on the team, and none of the French lads.


Because French lads don't dope.

DOB wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:33 pm

jezzer wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:43 pm Arkea being investigated for doping....

Plus ça change.

Specifically, the Quintana brothers, plus Winner Anacona. So the 3 Colombians on the team, and none of the French lads.


Because French lads don't dope.

And if they do, the French chemists suck big time!

Just for the records though, it is a French judge that went after Festina and Virenque. A lot of the anti-doping legal action has happened in France. Not so much elsewhere.

I'm guessing Sam won't be doing the Giro after all that.

Could he ride in La Vuelta?

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:07 pm I'm guessing Sam won't be doing the Giro after all that.

Could he ride in La Vuelta?

He'd be mad to try either. Ewan is supposedly down to ride the Giro, but the routes for both are brutal.

I can maybe see Bennett doing the Vuelta, because there's enough time to get a bit of rest ahead of it, and it's shorter by 3 stages, and there might be as many as 4 or 5 stages with a chance of a sprint. None before stage 5, though.

DOB wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:54 pm

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:07 pm I'm guessing Sam won't be doing the Giro after all that.

Could he ride in La Vuelta?

He'd be mad to try either. Ewan is supposedly down to ride the Giro, but the routes for both are brutal.

I can maybe see Bennett doing the Vuelta, because there's enough time to get a bit of rest ahead of it, and it's shorter by 3 stages, and there might be as many as 4 or 5 stages with a chance of a sprint. None before stage 5, though.

See Sagan is doing the Giro?

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:57 pm

DOB wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:54 pm

iarmhiman wrote: ↑Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:07 pm I'm guessing Sam won't be doing the Giro after all that.

Could he ride in La Vuelta?

He'd be mad to try either. Ewan is supposedly down to ride the Giro, but the routes for both are brutal.

I can maybe see Bennett doing the Vuelta, because there's enough time to get a bit of rest ahead of it, and it's shorter by 3 stages, and there might be as many as 4 or 5 stages with a chance of a sprint. None before stage 5, though.

See Sagan is doing the Giro?

Yeah, long since planned for him. He's never done it, at least partly because he's always done the Tour of California that time of year. If he's climbing better than he was at the Tour, then he can have a go on a few of the transition stages; the Sagan of a few years ago would've come away with 4 or 4 stages, the sprint jersey, and maybe even a day in the Maglia Rosa.

Brilliant ride Alaphilippe!

World champion.

Beaver_Shark wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:37 pm Brilliant ride Alaphilippe!

World champion.

Delighted for him, I love his style of racing. Next one in the same vein could well be Hirschi.

He came so close so many times, must be a great feeling. On the penultimate loop, when Pogacar starter to pull away I wondered if he was going to TT all the way to the line. But, in the end the teams didn't panick and kept him within reach and the strongest riders pulled away. In the end, Alaphilippe benefited from the fact that nobody wanted to lead Van Aert to a sprint finish, which proved Alaphilippe's tactic right to attack from far. I would have thought Hirschi and Fuglsang would have flowed him but he managed to drop everybody with his attack.

This prove that he rode the TDF to prepare the Worlds, hence the fact that we did not see him chase more wins. And with Bennett in the spotlights, he had less pressure to deliver results for his team.

Didn't realize Dries Devenyns turned down Belgian selection because he did not want to end up in a position where he would have to ride to close a gap on Alaphilippe.

That's friendship!

Cycling tactics are so simple.

"Where's Alaphilippe going to attack?"
"Probably just before the top of the final climb."
"Better make sure we follow him then.'
"Yup."

DOB wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:25 pm Cycling tactics are so simple.

"Where's Alaphilippe going to attack?"
"Probably just before the top of the final climb."
"Better make sure we follow him then.'
"Yup."

It was so predictable it was untrue. I also hate the fact that cyclists seem more content to settle for a podium place than risk it all chasing for the win. They could have easily worked together to reel him in but no, "can't risk losing a sprint for second". Third in this case a Van Aert was always getting second.

BlackMac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:55 pm

DOB wrote: ↑Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:25 pm Cycling tactics are so simple.

"Where's Alaphilippe going to attack?"
"Probably just before the top of the final climb."
"Better make sure we follow him then.'
"Yup."

It was so predictable it was untrue. I also hate the fact that cyclists seem more content to settle for a podium place than risk it all chasing for the win. They could have easily worked together to reel him in but no, "can't risk losing a sprint for second". Third in this case a Van Aert was always getting second.

I agree, but in fairness, it really was all on vanAert to chase there; the world TT silver medallist from Friday, and winner of 2 bunch sprints in the Tour de France that just finished last week, and whose team have been controlling the race from the start, really shouldn't be looking around for help from a handful of classics specialists and a GT rider.

All he needed to do was get within 5 seconds or so of Alaf. Then one of the others would have jumped across. Then Alaf and that other guy would have started to cat and mouse. Then he's back in play for a late charge. Every time he sat up, Alaphilippe added seconds to his lead.