Planet Rugby Forum

Rogla sitting in the wheels chilling. No time losses to anyone serious, Wanty take the jersey for a few days. Result.

TheFrog wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:41 pm Carapaz dropped, Valverde rides in front of the peloton...

Movistar are some revengeful lot....

That didn't occur to me, but yeah. Wow.

DOB wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:42 pm Rogla sitting in the wheels chilling. No time losses to anyone serious, Wanty take the jersey for a few days. Result.

Perfect for JV indeed. They'll be disappointed that Kuss lost some time but he was never going to be a GC card.

Cathy and Landa lost time, with Yates yesterday, pretty good results for Roglic.

TheFrog wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:45 pm

DOB wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:42 pm Rogla sitting in the wheels chilling. No time losses to anyone serious, Wanty take the jersey for a few days. Result.

Perfect for JV indeed. They'll be disappointed that Kuss lost some time but he was never going to be a GC card.

Cathy and Landa lost time, with Yates yesterday, pretty good results for Roglic.

Bardet and Vlasov too.

I can only assume that Kuus, Kruiswijk and Oomen all chose to sit up and save their legs.

The next 3 days look good for a classics team like Wanty to control the race, and even on stage 7 with a few Cat 2 climbs, Taaramae should be well able to hold on (and even f he isn't, Jumbo can just let Kenny take over for a couple days). Also, Alpecin and DQS should be on the front a lot to set up some sprints.

Ultimately, this should be an easy week for the Jumbo lads. Stage 9 is the next important one for them. Provided a) Primoz keeps the rubber side down and b) no crosswinds.

Didn't realize Landa managed to finish with the GC leaders actually.

TheFrog wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:20 pm Didn't realize Landa managed to finish with the GC leaders actually.

Very much an isolated, week 1, MTF day. Not much to see here. Anyone with serious top 10 ambitions or pretences is still within 2 minutes or threabouts of Roglic

DOB wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:29 pm

TheFrog wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:20 pm Didn't realize Landa managed to finish with the GC leaders actually.

Very much an isolated, week 1, MTF day. Not much to see here. Anyone with serious top 10 ambitions or pretences is still within 2 minutes or threabouts of Roglic

Given Roglic's ITT credentials, you do not want to be 2min behind I would think.

TheFrog wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:31 pm

DOB wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:29 pm

TheFrog wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:20 pm Didn't realize Landa managed to finish with the GC leaders actually.

Very much an isolated, week 1, MTF day. Not much to see here. Anyone with serious top 10 ambitions or pretences is still within 2 minutes or threabouts of Roglic

Given Roglic's ITT credentials, you do not want to be 2min behind I would think.

Guillaume Martin's (sitting 34th at 2.30, so exactly 2' behind Rog) direct opposition is not Roglic, it's the 10 or so GC contenders between him and Roglic on the standings as he tries to stay as high up in the top 10 as he can.

The guys who are trying to win the race are generally closer, but the point is today's stage hasn't decided a whole lot.

Echelons never materialised, Taaramae crashes, and on the flattest stage of the race, the red jersey passes to Kenny Flipping Elissonde.

DOB wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:01 pm Echelons never materialised, Taaramae crashes, and on the flattest stage of the race, the red jersey passes to Kenny Flipping Elissonde.

And Kenny was all apologetic about it.

Bardet doing as poorly a G.Thomas and out of contention for any GC classification.

We'll see how Bardet recovers from his crash. He's 13' down on Roglic now, so he should have plenty of freedom to go in breaks and chase stage wins/KOM points. If he starts tomorrow.

What are IG doing? Narvaez losing Carapaz and Bernal on the entrance to the climb, backing off & then just giving Roglic a tow up the hill. They seem to have no idea how to take on a rider who is just in better form than them.

Since Carapaz obviously doesn't have the legs for this race it will be interesting to see if they use him to blow up Movistar and TJV on the first climbs tomorrow.

Movistar will have to make some decisions soon.

DOB wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:29 pm

TheFrog wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:20 pm Didn't realize Landa managed to finish with the GC leaders actually.

Very much an isolated, week 1, MTF day. Not much to see here. Anyone with serious top 10 ambitions or pretences is still within 2 minutes or threabouts of Roglic

Funny - you could say almost the same about today despite how hard a stage it was. Valverde was just unfortunate and Landa & Carapaz got slightly distanced, other than that it was a GC procession with not a second's worry for Roglic (in fact Kuss moving ahead of Yates and Vlasov was an unexpected bonus). Movistar were unlucky with the crash happening at exactly the wrong time, but the other teams seem unable to land a serious blow on Roglic.

I was surprised how easily Sivakov was distanced on the last climb, when the 4 man group broke away I expected him to win.

Mas seems in pretty good form though, and so does Lopez. If Movistar don't blow it this time, they could hurt Roglic.

They should partner with Ineos to try to bring him down.

TheFrog wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:27 am Mas seems in pretty good form though, and so does Lopez. If Movistar don't blow it this time, they could hurt Roglic.

They should partner with Ineos to try to bring him down.

Movistar partner with Ineos? They would rather hand Roglic it on a plate than help Carapaz' team

TheFrog wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:27 am Mas seems in pretty good form though, and so does Lopez. If Movistar don't blow it this time, they could hurt Roglic.

They should partner with Ineos to try to bring him down.

If Kuss has the legs to go in breaks tomorrow and the 29th (like he did yesterday) it completely f***s up Ineos and Movistar. They can't let the breaks go because he is more than capable of bringing home a mountain top finish and taking even more time, so they have to do TJV's job and lead the peloton - reducing their firepower to attack Roglic on the last climb.

Of course the same thing applies to Yates and Mas/Landa - however they have seemed reluctant to go for it.

lilyw wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:05 pm

TheFrog wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:27 am Mas seems in pretty good form though, and so does Lopez. If Movistar don't blow it this time, they could hurt Roglic.

They should partner with Ineos to try to bring him down.

If Kuss has the legs to go in breaks tomorrow and the 29th (like he did yesterday) it completely f***s up Ineos and Movistar. They can't let the breaks go because he is more than capable of bringing home a mountain top finish and taking even more time, so they have to do TJV's job and lead the peloton - reducing their firepower to attack Roglic on the last climb.

Of course the same thing applies to Yates and Mas/Landa - however they have seemed reluctant to go for it.

Or alternatively Roglic can just go and demoralise everybody all by himself!

His chase down of Yates was ridiculous, and then just sat in - almost as if he was saying "is that all you've got?"

Now, as usual, the question is "Can Roglic go all the way?"

Mas seems in good shape and could finally get a top three in a Grand Tour.

Yup. Mas is looking as good as I’ve seen him, but Roglic is dealing with him, and the rest, comfortably.

Well that was funny - I thought that Sean Kelly was going to have a heart attack trying to understand Roglic's behaviour.

Nico Roche reckoned that he would have taken a minute out of Mas & Lopez if he hadn't fallen off. The descent followed by a relatively flat run-in would have caused the 3 chasers to back off with about 5k to go.

In any case they made a good point of TV afterwards - we have bemoaned the years of Robotic riding, wheel-sucking, & slavish adherence to tactics so why not enjoy a rider who actually seemed to just ride fast because he felt up for it. It was risky & didn't make a great deal of tactical sense - but thank god for a bit of flair.

In any case provided that he wasn't actually hurt it did make sense - combined with his bridge to Adam Yates on the previous stage he has now absolutely shown everybody that he is the boss & can ride away from them whenever he chooses. That must be demoralising.

(Though they did point out that he might expect a bit of a talking to by the TJV staff about being stupid - they will remind him of the last stage of Paris-Nice.)

Now he's just taking the piss.

Add in the 65-90 seconds that Roglic might expect to pick up in the final ITT and Movistar have to find over 2 minutes on him (Ineos have to find more than 6 - I think that we can discount them). They haven't taken time off him in any of the 11 stages so far, so they must have everything pinned on him having his traditional bad mountain day in Week 3.

It will be interesting to see which tactic JV employ for the next 3 stages: conserve their energy to protect him for that day or eke out enough additional seconds that he can overcome it. Equally it will be interesting to see whether Movistar try to attack him & force the issue. (Of course there's nothing to say that Mas & Lopez won't have an off-day as well - in which case the argument is moot.)

I think yesterday showed that he's happy to go on the attack and pick up time where he can (though he may descend a bit more carefully in future), but we already knew he was the strongest in the race.

Worth pointing out that at this point in the Giro, Bernal was riding away from everyone for shits and giggles, on all terrain and in all weather conditions, too.

DOB wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:26 pm I think yesterday showed that he's happy to go on the attack and pick up time where he can (though he may descend a bit more carefully in future), but we already knew he was the strongest in the race.

Worth pointing out that at this point in the Giro, Bernal was riding away from everyone for shits and giggles, on all terrain and in all weather conditions, too.

Thought about this too, and the little scare Bernal had toward the end of the Giro where he was no longer in top form. I actually wonder if he is still not suffering of the effects of COVID.

Roglic has hit the deck twice. This is his weakness and people should test him on tricky terrain.

TheFrog wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:02 pm

DOB wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:26 pm I think yesterday showed that he's happy to go on the attack and pick up time where he can (though he may descend a bit more carefully in future), but we already knew he was the strongest in the race.

Worth pointing out that at this point in the Giro, Bernal was riding away from everyone for shits and giggles, on all terrain and in all weather conditions, too.

Thought about this too, and the little scare Bernal had toward the end of the Giro where he was no longer in top form. I actually wonder if he is still not suffering of the effects of COVID.

Roglic has hit the deck twice. This is his weakness and people should test him on tricky terrain.

Was he not brought down this time? TV seemed to suggest that Pidcock & Van Baarle touched wheels, VB skittered across the road & took out the other riders. Not a whole lot that anybody else could do about it - if you were in the wrong place you just got taken down by the sliding Van Baarle.

It wasn't like Tuesday's crash or the last stage of Paris-Nice - where he definitely made mistakes. All that it means is that he will probably be a lot more careful riding in the bunch tomorrow.

lilyw wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:03 pm

TheFrog wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:02 pm

DOB wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:26 pm I think yesterday showed that he's happy to go on the attack and pick up time where he can (though he may descend a bit more carefully in future), but we already knew he was the strongest in the race.

Worth pointing out that at this point in the Giro, Bernal was riding away from everyone for shits and giggles, on all terrain and in all weather conditions, too.

Thought about this too, and the little scare Bernal had toward the end of the Giro where he was no longer in top form. I actually wonder if he is still not suffering of the effects of COVID.

Roglic has hit the deck twice. This is his weakness and people should test him on tricky terrain.

Was he not brought down this time? TV seemed to suggest that Pidcock & Van Baarle touched wheels, VB skittered across the road & took out the other riders. Not a whole lot that anybody else could do about it - if you were in the wrong place you just got taken down by the sliding Van Baarle.

It wasn't like Tuesday's crash or the last stage of Paris-Nice - where he definitely made mistakes. All that it means is that he will probably be a lot more careful riding in the bunch tomorrow.

One mistake Roglic consistently makes, and JV with him, is that he is poorly positioned in the peloton. That cost him the TDF already, and there were a couple near misses too.

So there are 2 weaknesses for Roglic. Under pressure and on tricky terrain, he can make costly mistakes.

In fast riding peloton juggling for position, he often poorly positioned when he should be at the front, well protected by his lieutenants.

Too many falls could end up taking their toll.

TheFrog wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:54 pm

lilyw wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:03 pm

TheFrog wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:02 pm

DOB wrote: ↑Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:26 pm I think yesterday showed that he's happy to go on the attack and pick up time where he can (though he may descend a bit more carefully in future), but we already knew he was the strongest in the race.

Worth pointing out that at this point in the Giro, Bernal was riding away from everyone for shits and giggles, on all terrain and in all weather conditions, too.

Thought about this too, and the little scare Bernal had toward the end of the Giro where he was no longer in top form. I actually wonder if he is still not suffering of the effects of COVID.

Roglic has hit the deck twice. This is his weakness and people should test him on tricky terrain.

Was he not brought down this time? TV seemed to suggest that Pidcock & Van Baarle touched wheels, VB skittered across the road & took out the other riders. Not a whole lot that anybody else could do about it - if you were in the wrong place you just got taken down by the sliding Van Baarle.

It wasn't like Tuesday's crash or the last stage of Paris-Nice - where he definitely made mistakes. All that it means is that he will probably be a lot more careful riding in the bunch tomorrow.

One mistake Roglic consistently makes, and JV with him, is that he is poorly positioned in the peloton. That cost him the TDF already, and there were a couple near misses too.

So there are 2 weaknesses for Roglic. Under pressure and on tricky terrain, he can make costly mistakes.

In fast riding peloton juggling for position, he often poorly positioned when he should be at the front, well protected by his lieutenants.

Too many falls could end up taking their toll.

A result of coming late to competitive cycling?

Just looking at the start list for the Tour of Britain. TJV have named ridiculous team for a 2nd tier event. Difficult to see anybody else getting a serious look in (except Cavendish with the points jersey).

lilyw wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:57 pm Just looking at the start list for the Tour of Britain. TJV have named ridiculous team for a 2nd tier event. Difficult to see anybody else getting a serious look in (except Cavendish with the points jersey).

I think it's the only Team Time Trial on the men's pro calendar for the year, and they are all-in for it. And unless Ineos bring Ganna, Dennis, Kwiatkowski et al, it's difficult to see them not putting a minute into the whole field. Which would be a pretty much insurmountable lead for a race like the ToB.

Nice stage on the Vuelta today, it made for enjoyable TV.

Happy to see Bardet going back to winning, amazed by Eiking commitment to the red jersey. Roglic is in control though and Lopez did not manage to hurt him.

From the Pogacar school of kick them while they're down!

That was impressive from Roglic (and puts the race to bed), cheeky from Kuss, brave from Bernal, and disappointingly passive from the other GC contenders. Difficult to see where Movistar actually plan to win the race.

(As they pointed out on TV - it must have been dispiriting for the 2nd group of riders (Mas etc) to be fighting their way to the line only to meet Roglic freewheeling back down the hill about 300m from the end, and then losing a sprint to Kuss.)

Presumably TJV will just take tomorrow off as Movistar, BV, and Ineos kick lumps out of each other trying to get the minor placings.

Impressive indeed from Roglic. Let's see if he recovers well for tomorrow.

Fair play to Bernal. That was an ambitious attack, and to ride with Roglic as far as he did was a great effort.

For someone who has been pointed at this race all year Adam Yates has been incredibly disappointing. He has achieved nothing - no real attacks, no podium finishes, no support to Bernal, completely passive in the mountains,....

He certainly hasn't enhanced his reputation - on that showing it's difficult to see him getting another Team Leader's gig (reminds me a bit of how George Bennett & Stephen Kruiswijk have been shown as coming up a bit short).

lilyw wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:02 pm For someone who has been pointed at this race all year Adam Yates has been incredibly disappointing. He has achieved nothing - no real attacks, no podium finishes, no support to Bernal, completely passive in the mountains,....

He certainly hasn't enhanced his reputation - on that showing it's difficult to see him getting another Team Leader's gig (reminds me a bit of how George Bennett & Stephen Kruiswijk have been shown as coming up a bit short).

He seemed on good form in the early spring, maybe he's just gone off the boil. Ineos have made some odd (to me at least) GT team choices this year.

Well, this confirms that Pogacar and Roglic are up there, Pogacar surely the best of the two and getting better, and the rest of the bunch is daylight behind.

Behind them, Bernal is the only one who could challenge then a bit although he was not in great form on the Vuelta.

Nice surprises this season are Vingegaard, Mas and Lopez.

I would rank Carapaz behind these guys. Haig is lifting his levels to the same standards albeit with a less attacking side.

Uran is a mystery. What happen to him at the TDF raises questions.

Among the nice surprises, I would point Gino Mader who had been amazing on the Giro and Vuelta.

And for stages hunters, Storer comes to mind, with Cort who has another profile.

TheFrog wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:21 pm Well, this confirms that Pogacar and Roglic are up there, Pogacar surely the best of the two and getting better, and the rest of the bunch is daylight behind.

Behind them, Bernal is the only one who could challenge then a bit although he was not in great form on the Vuelta.

Nice surprises this season are Vingegaard, Mas and Lopez.

I would rank Carapaz behind these guys. Haig is lifting his levels to the same standards albeit with a less attacking side.

Uran is a mystery. What happen to him at the TDF raises questions.

Among the nice surprises, I would point Gino Mader who had been amazing on the Giro and Vuelta.

And for stages hunters, Storer comes to mind, with Cort who has another profile.

A couple of careers took several steps backwards this year: Thomas, Sagan, Bennett (?), Landa

Yes, that is a fair point. Landa never stops to disappoint. At some point I was wondering whether Mas would be the same. But he has done pretty well this Vuelta, after ridding into 5th place at the TDF.


And Cort won again today

Dan Martin to retire at the end of the season.

TheFrog wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:42 am Dan Martin to retire at the end of the season.

Not a massive surprise. With his Giro stage and top 10 this year he’s pretty much got the full house of “things a rider like Dan Martin can achieve in a career.”

Edit; I wish he'd gone for the Tour KOM jersey at some stage. I can't figure out why he never did.

Mad stage at the Vuelta today. Bernal and Lopez cracked completely, and Superman abandoned. The top 4 marked each other out of the stage win and Clement Champoussin got the jump on them to take the stage.

I'd love to see more stages like today's profile; 5 cat 2 climbs with steep ramps, rather than 1 or 2 HC climbs.