NZ Politics Thread

[jambanja]

Monkey, I think it the later .

She doesn’t want it to appear an undue advantage either way .

Any publicity being good publicity and all that .

Frankly I wanted her to simply say fudge it and but her foot on the opposition throats .

But I guess that’s neither who she is or how she wants to be perceived .

Damn .

[terangi48]

The Education of children, youth and young adult is an interesting issue during a pandemic.

The key issues to me are:

1. The education of NZers.

2. The Education of Foreign Learners.

First the education of NZers

At the younger end, birth through to seven, education appears to be most successful when high interaction to relationship build and bond with the primary caregivers....parents.....especially up to the age of five. This however is in direct competition with the work force, and many parents must place their children into care centres, kindergartens, preschools. Parental leave has improved the care of infants more as the initial bond is built, and grandparents are involved in care as well.

The pandemic, especially at level 4, improved life and learning for this age group overall, as I read and hear that many families made the most of the time together, without having to resort to expensive outings and holidays. It seems that the "up to seven year old child's" commencement of formal education has always been a debate, as Singapore starts kids as young as 3.5yrs, Britain at 4 yrs, NZ at 5 years, Australia 6yrs and Finland 7 yrs.

Our 8 to 14 cohort of learners, are the group whose knowledge and skills are being built up through rich experiences and a widening curriculum.....and through widening relationship development away from family, building resilience through cooperative learning, sport, arts, and other "character building" interests. The lockdo....thrwn for this group was harder.....and if children were asked....harder on the more physical types who missed their sport.....easier on the academic as they could read more without the plod work of endless assessment and assignments. Overall however, not much damage is done as kids, like the environment, had a chance for a rest and the importance of having to understand the reason why lemmings jump over cliffs drifted into insignificance......for 5 months.

Our NCEA kids live in a world that our School Cert and UE kids could only dream of.....the world of the internet and technology. I believe these kids fall into three distinct groups: the achievers who never changed gear.....they grabbed their computers, consulted their teachers and MOE syllabuses, and with minimal guidance, self taught using all sites online. Then there are the ones like me......needing to be spoon fed more. They will have holes in their learning, only if that learning is hierarchical, and required as a prerequisite for future courses......they/we are more trusting souls and what we don't know that we dont know, doesnt seem to affect our future development. Catchup will be necessary. And as for the third group, they have other desires in life and are only there as there is an age attendance requirement.....these are not spoon feeders, but force feeders.

The tertiary sector is a different scene again, as learners are self investing for job skills and future employment and careers. The pandemic was harmful for these young adults, as standards of competence are involved, which must be assesed and met which will lead to more time at their place of sudy until courses and competence in their understanding and application are achieved. Internal organisation of these places of study will be essential, to allow courses to be completed in part years in the future.

The Education of Foreigners

This issue of closed borders really only affects this group, foreign learners...and overseas based staff...and the institutions that recruit them and their fees. Having foreign students has got it's merits as sharing of culture, practices, learning syles, knowledge is always beneficial......however, the Pandemic has caused unwanted ripples across the secondary and tertiary sectors......mainly to do with money. Bums on seats bring in money from the MOE....bums on seats mean more staff have to be hired on contracts...........money from foregn students pay for the extras.....then the pandemic hits and the money tap is turned off.

Schools which recruit have the extra funding to create smaller classes by hiring extra staff beyond their MOE allocation......there are interesting times ahead for these schools budget wise...and political agitaion to let in foreign students through the closed border in their thousands. The MOE are caught between a rock and a hard place on this issue, as a small country school for example, who after gypsy day when the dairy industry has its new contracts realigned, loses half its students whose families move to another district: suddenly.....less bums on seats, less funding, less staffing......automatically ....if not for that year, then certainly for the next. Consistency must apply - work within finacial constraints.
The same rules apply for all.

In summary.....the pandemic has had a huge effect on education, but not evenly across the whole sector......and even suggest it was a boost for family life, especially for the younger children.....but a pain in the arse for secondary and tertiary students for reasons stated above,

[JB1981]

Jacinda Ardern has just done a cases per million comparison of us vs. the USA. I wonder if that will get back to Donald Trump.

[Demilich]

The more party-tribalism bollocks I see in the lead-up to the election, the more inclined I am to "waste" my vote on the TOP party. Doesn't appear to be any other options that will take a pragmatic approach to policy, as opposed to just vote "buying" measures. Really do appear to be on a path towards a genuine Idiocracy in the future.

As for my local MP - there really needs to be an option to vote against a single candidate, rather than for one - "anyone but Shane Jones" will do for me.

[Fat Old Git]

The more party-tribalism bollocks I see in the lead-up to the election, the more inclined I am to "waste" my vote on the TOP party. Doesn't appear to be any other options that will take a pragmatic approach to policy, as opposed to just vote "buying" measures. Really do appear to be on a path towards a genuine Idiocracy in the future.

As for my local MP - there really needs to be an option to vote against a single candidate, rather than for one - "anyone but Shane Jones" will do for me.

As someone firmly in the anyone but Gerry Brownlee camp I endorse the introduction of this option.

[Fat Old Git]

Jacinda Ardern has just done a cases per million comparison of us vs. the USA. I wonder if that will get back to Donald Trump.

That did make me chuckle. Although she missed an opportunity to have a nice chart on display.

[Jay Cee Gee]

Jacinda Ardern has just done a cases per million comparison of us vs. the USA. I wonder if that will get back to Donald Trump.

That did make me chuckle. Also she missed an opportunity to have a nice chart on display.

You can't do that.

[Fat Old Git]

Anyone see this comparison with Sweden's approach last night?


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... ponse.html

[Gordon Bennett]

The more party-tribalism bollocks I see in the lead-up to the election, the more inclined I am to "waste" my vote on the TOP party. Doesn't appear to be any other options that will take a pragmatic approach to policy, as opposed to just vote "buying" measures. Really do appear to be on a path towards a genuine Idiocracy in the future.

As for my local MP - there really needs to be an option to vote against a single candidate, rather than for one - "anyone but Shane Jones" will do for me.

As someone firmly in the anyone but Gerry Brownlee camp I endorse the introduction of this option.

The Australian STV method effectively allows this by allowing you to give alternative preferences if your favoured candidate drops out of the running during the tally-up. Makes for a much more complicated electorate count, but you can effectively vote for anyone but.

[vh5150]

An impressive display from The PM and AB this afternoon.
People do need a bit of perspective. I’m encouraged with the firm, fact driven responses.

[Dark]

Jacinda Ardern has just done a cases per million comparison of us vs. the USA. I wonder if that will get back to Donald Trump.

I thought the funny bit is the orange idiot has managed to trigger the hand wringing lefty on the other side of the world.

Must be a micro aggressions thing

[Ted.]

Just following the social media trends I saw a lot of natural National supporters return to the fold when Muller took over. Bridges had literally driven away some of the dyed in the wool, true blue voters. He was that bad. Whilst everyone was disappointed in Mullers dismally short reign I think those same voters are still much happier with Collins than Bridges.

Meanwhile I'm seeing more swinging voters who are becoming disillusioned with this Govts constant bungling of the border controls and the complete lack of accountability for all the failings.

I think the vote on 17 October might be closer than it was once looking. Still a comfortable win for Labour but perhaps not the bloodbath it was once shaping up to be.

Yes I think election night will be a bit closer with national ending up in the mid, possibly late 30s

I think ACT will end up with a few disgruntled Nat supporters and get over the 5% threshold, nzf gone

Based on nationals pre Covid figures there are obviously a lot of Nat swing voters- bridge can’t have been that bad at that point because they were polling about 44%

Hmm ... good point.

This article sort of articulates what you are both saying. It concludes that it will probably be closer, but no cigar.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... nce-voters

[Flockwitt]

Still no idea of who or how the initial case happened despite the blanket testing. I’d say the odds are starting to trend now that somebody is telling porkies. Pleased the govt is getting more professional people in.

[Ted.]

Anyone see this comparison with Sweden's approach last night?


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... ponse.html

There's a much more in-depth take on it here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health ... wedens-way

[Ted.]

Still no idea of who or how the initial case happened despite the blanket testing. I’d say the odds are starting to trend now that somebody is telling porkies. Pleased the govt is getting more professional people in.

Yes, and I have the suspicion that porkies are not limited to this particular instance.

[Monkey Magic]

The more party-tribalism bollocks I see in the lead-up to the election, the more inclined I am to "waste" my vote on the TOP party. Doesn't appear to be any other options that will take a pragmatic approach to policy, as opposed to just vote "buying" measures. Really do appear to be on a path towards a genuine Idiocracy in the future.

As for my local MP - there really needs to be an option to vote against a single candidate, rather than for one - "anyone but Shane Jones" will do for me.

Crazy thing is that if TOP got an Epsom deal, I think they would then end up over the 5% anyway.

There's a large number of voters who are in the same boat as you, others who really like their policies. But won't give them the tick as they see it as a waste

[Auckman]

Jacinda Ardern has just done a cases per million comparison of us vs. the USA. I wonder if that will get back to Donald Trump.

That did make me chuckle. Also she missed an opportunity to have a nice chart on display.

You can't do that.

[Auckman]

Still no idea of who or how the initial case happened despite the blanket testing. I’d say the odds are starting to trend now that somebody is telling porkies. Pleased the govt is getting more professional people in.

Surely genomic sequencing tests would've shown up anyone telling porkies by now? There would've been a clear match made like that contractor at the Rydges Hotel and the US returnee.

[terangi48]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... ponse.html

A sensible point of view.

[deadduck]

Anyone see this comparison with Sweden's approach last night?


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... ponse.html

Jesse Mulligan should heed his own advice.



The annoying thing about the commentary on Sweden's pandemic especially in NZ is that there's never any input from the Swedish.

[Jay Cee Gee]

Anyone see this comparison with Sweden's approach last night?


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... ponse.html

Jesse Mulligan should heed his own advice.



The annoying thing about the commentary on Sweden's pandemic especially in NZ is that there's never any input from the Swedish.

I mean, he specifically says "Don't listen to me, listen to the experts".

[Kiwias]

Anyone see this comparison with Sweden's approach last night?


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... ponse.html

Jesse Mulligan should heed his own advice.



The annoying thing about the commentary on Sweden's pandemic especially in NZ is that there's never any input from the Swedish.

From the man in charge of the response, Anders Tegnell of the Public Health Agency,

Asked if the country's high death toll has made him reconsider his unique approach to the pandemic, Tegnell told Swedish radio "yes, absolutely."

Then he said this

"If we were to encounter the same disease again, knowing precisely what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done"

I think that the point is that in the early days, no-one knew precisely what they know about it now.

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/0 ... ne-deeper/

[Kiwias]

Watching the PM and AB giving their update today drives home how poorly the government here is doing in informing the public at large about the state of affairs and what the government is doing to prevent any further spread of covid-19.

Whether you like Ardern or not, it is hard to deny that she is doing a very impressive job.

[Ted.]

Anyone see this comparison with Sweden's approach last night?


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... ponse.html

Jesse Mulligan should heed his own advice.



The annoying thing about the commentary on Sweden's pandemic especially in NZ is that there's never any input from the Swedish.

From the man in charge of the response, Anders Tegnell of the Public Health Agency,

Asked if the country's high death toll has made him reconsider his unique approach to the pandemic, Tegnell told Swedish radio "yes, absolutely."

Then he said this

"If we were to encounter the same disease again, knowing precisely what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done"

I think that the point is that in the early days, no-one knew precisely what they know about it now.

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/0 ... ne-deeper/

I'll give this another go here.

Anyone see this comparison with Sweden's approach last night?


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... ponse.html

There's a much more in-depth take on it here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health ... wedens-way

There's charts and graphs and information from Sweden and everything. But let's keep banging on about straw man Mulligan.

[Muttonbirds]

Anyone see this comparison with Sweden's approach last night?


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... ponse.html

Jesse Mulligan should heed his own advice.



The annoying thing about the commentary on Sweden's pandemic especially in NZ is that there's never any input from the Swedish.

[UncleFB]

Jacinda Ardern has just done a cases per million comparison of us vs. the USA. I wonder if that will get back to Donald Trump.

I thought the funny bit is the orange idiot has managed to trigger the hand wringing lefty on the other side of the world.

Must be a micro aggressions thing

You're an old ball, supposed leader of the free world with blanket press coverage calls out NZ and we're just supposed to lump it because Jacinda is of the left.

Crusher would lay into him if she was in charge and you'd be trumpeting her as the strong leader we deserve.

[Dark]

Jacinda Ardern has just done a cases per million comparison of us vs. the USA. I wonder if that will get back to Donald Trump.

I thought the funny bit is the orange idiot has managed to trigger the hand wringing lefty on the other side of the world.

Must be a micro aggressions thing

You're an old ball, supposed leader of the free world with blanket press coverage calls out NZ and we're just supposed to lump it because Jacinda is of the left.

Crusher would lay into him if she was in charge and you'd be trumpeting her as the strong leader we deserve.

No I wouldn't

[Kiwias]

Jacinda Ardern has just done a cases per million comparison of us vs. the USA. I wonder if that will get back to Donald Trump.

I thought the funny bit is the orange idiot has managed to trigger the hand wringing lefty on the other side of the world.

Must be a micro aggressions thing

You're an old ball, supposed leader of the free world with blanket press coverage calls out NZ and we're just supposed to lump it because Jacinda is of the left.

Crusher would lay into him if she was in charge and you'd be trumpeting her as the strong leader we deserve.

It seems that any response to the Orange Buffoon's comments mean that Ardern has been triggered, rather than just her clarifying the situation in the two countries. Whatever.

[Wilderbeast]

Wasn’t she responding to a question?

[JB1981]

Wasn’t she responding to a question?

I can’t remember. I thought good on her for making the point though. She didn’t name any names or talk about clearing up erroneous statements, she just factually compared the two countries.

[Muttonbirds]

FAO Santa.

[deadduck]

The point I was making is that there's always this comparison from the outside to either lockdown vs no lockdown, or Sweden vs its Scandinavian neighbours but neither dichotomy is appropriate and that's why it's important to talk to an actual expert on the Swedish strategy and not just the most conveniently media savvy academic from NZ who understands it superficially. Media should stop treating Tegnell like some kind of shill for Big Covid and interview him to get first hand information about the state of Sweden's pandemic. He's generally been quite forthcoming.

[Enzedder]

The point I was making is that there's always this comparison from the outside to either lockdown vs no lockdown, or Sweden vs its Scandinavian neighbours but neither dichotomy is appropriate and that's why it's important to talk to an actual expert on the Swedish strategy and not just the most conveniently media savvy academic from NZ who understands it superficially. Media should stop treating Tegnell like some kind of shill for Big Covid and interview him to get first hand information about the state of Sweden's pandemic. He's generally been quite forthcoming.

Perhaps you should call the National Mouthpieces on Newstalk ZB and make the suggestion.

[Muttonbirds]

The point I was making is that there's always this comparison from the outside to either lockdown vs no lockdown, or Sweden vs its Scandinavian neighbours but neither dichotomy is appropriate and that's why it's important to talk to an actual expert on the Swedish strategy and not just the most conveniently media savvy academic from NZ who understands it superficially. Media should stop treating Tegnell like some kind of shill for Big Covid and interview him to get first hand information about the state of Sweden's pandemic. He's generally been quite forthcoming.

Perhaps you should call the National Mouthpieces on Newstalk ZB and make the suggestion.

Would love to hear from Tegnell. Particularly about his idea children should be used to spread the virus as quickly as possible.

[Harveys]

Jacinda Ardern has just done a cases per million comparison of us vs. the USA. I wonder if that will get back to Donald Trump.

I thought the funny bit is the orange idiot has managed to trigger the hand wringing lefty on the other side of the world.

Must be a micro aggressions thing

You're an old ball, supposed leader of the free world with blanket press coverage calls out NZ and we're just supposed to lump it because Jacinda is of the left.

Crusher would lay into him if she was in charge and you'd be trumpeting her as the strong leader we deserve.

Darks doing a good job of coming across as the yin to the wacky yang he’s so hung up on.

[Dark]

The point I was making is that there's always this comparison from the outside to either lockdown vs no lockdown, or Sweden vs its Scandinavian neighbours but neither dichotomy is appropriate and that's why it's important to talk to an actual expert on the Swedish strategy and not just the most conveniently media savvy academic from NZ who understands it superficially. Media should stop treating Tegnell like some kind of shill for Big Covid and interview him to get first hand information about the state of Sweden's pandemic. He's generally been quite forthcoming.

Perhaps you should call the National Mouthpieces on Newstalk ZB and make the suggestion.

Would love to hear from Tegnell. Particularly about his idea children should be used to spread the virus as quickly as possible.

Given the hash job the govt has made of the isolation centers we don't need to.

Is H2 and the sir dude the 3rd or 4th ones to be thrown in charge now?

Army bloke didn't last long

[JB1981]

I was worried about how things may go when community transmission appeared but seeing Muttonbirds back gives me confidence that we have recovered the situation, however the virus reappeared.

[Harveys]

MB has slid back in on his belly after a lengthy absence that suspiciously coincided with the NZ Covid outbreak.

After relentlessly trolling Australia’s second wave and suggesting responsibility be placed squarely at the PMs Feet I wonder if he will be as critical of his own government?

[Dark]

Jacinda Ardern has just done a cases per million comparison of us vs. the USA. I wonder if that will get back to Donald Trump.

I thought the funny bit is the orange idiot has managed to trigger the hand wringing lefty on the other side of the world.

Must be a micro aggressions thing

You're an old ball, supposed leader of the free world with blanket press coverage calls out NZ and we're just supposed to lump it because Jacinda is of the left.

Crusher would lay into him if she was in charge and you'd be trumpeting her as the strong leader we deserve.

Darks doing a good job of coming across as the yin to the wacky yang he’s so hung up on.

My apologies for questioning my govts competencies with theIr isolation and testing history given the circumstances.

[jambanja]

Anyone see this comparison with Sweden's approach last night?


https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... ponse.html

Jesse Mulligan should heed his own advice.



The annoying thing about the commentary on Sweden's pandemic especially in NZ is that there's never any input from the Swedish.

Ahh fuck you’re back, pity it was rather pleasant for a week or so