NZ Politics Thread

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brat
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by brat »

Happy to hear they’re finally making masks compulsory on public transport but can’t understand why supermarkets and markets aren’t included?

Seems like a huge miss, or maybe they’re just managing the situation towards full public mask wearing
Santa
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

How many people use public transport atm?

Anyway I think this is a good and proportionate measure. I am beginning to run out of hands on which ro count the number of infections.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Santa wrote:How many people use public transport atm?

Anyway I think this is a good and proportionate measure. I am beginning to run out of hands on which ro count the number of infections.

A lot of people who work in Wellington and need to get to work as well as students
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

I see that the Greens and Labour are trying to get 16 year olds to get the vote again.

I know the Greens are desperate, but far out

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424 ... -age-to-16
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Harveys
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Harveys »

Kahu wrote:
Dark wrote:
Kahu wrote:Don't worry about it Dark, the sooner you get it the sooner you gain immunity.
I actually agree, but don't want to be refused getting to work, by weird bus drivers
Fair enough, I've just been using my black Guns n Roses bandanna and haven't had any issues yet
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Harveys wrote:
Kahu wrote:
Dark wrote:
Kahu wrote:Don't worry about it Dark, the sooner you get it the sooner you gain immunity.
I actually agree, but don't want to be refused getting to work, by weird bus drivers
Fair enough, I've just been using my black Guns n Roses bandanna and haven't had any issues yet
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For someone who seems so intelligent you would think the gentleman in the photo would know the mask tattoo has to cover his nose as well.
Wilderbeast
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wilderbeast »

Dark wrote:I see that the Greens and Labour are trying to get 16 year olds to get the vote again.

I know the Greens are desperate, but far out

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424 ... -age-to-16
I don’t think this is labour policy?
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:I see that the Greens and Labour are trying to get 16 year olds to get the vote again.

I know the Greens are desperate, but far out

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424 ... -age-to-16
I don’t think this is labour policy?

https://labour.org.uk/latest/stories/time-votes-16/
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

The odd thing is the Labour party atm is that they think people are too dim to not just look at Covid stories, and actually still remember their agendas
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Fat Old Git
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

brat wrote:Happy to hear they’re finally making masks compulsory on public transport but can’t understand why supermarkets and markets aren’t included?

Seems like a huge miss, or maybe they’re just managing the situation towards full public mask wearing
I took a flight on Saturday, everyone on the plane including me were wearing masks. Air NZ had them available for those who didn't have their own (which wasn't me as I had a pile of disposables).

Masks are compulsory in my workplace now, but then we are a health care setting. Glad I'm mostly working from home and don't have to worry about that too often.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Actually apologies.

Just made a complete arse of my self, but not a first.

Forgive me Ardern
Wilderbeast
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wilderbeast »

I assume this your link :lol:
brat
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by brat »

Fat Old Git wrote:
brat wrote:Happy to hear they’re finally making masks compulsory on public transport but can’t understand why supermarkets and markets aren’t included?

Seems like a huge miss, or maybe they’re just managing the situation towards full public mask wearing
I took a flight on Saturday, everyone on the plane including me were wearing masks. Air NZ had them available for those who didn't have their own (which wasn't me as I had a pile of disposables).

Masks are compulsory in my workplace now, but then we are a health care setting. Glad I'm mostly working from home and don't have to worry about that too often.
That’s good to hear

I live in Auckland and I’ve been out for a walk every day and I would say that a maximum of 10% are wearing masks, and that includes people going into a small shopping centre

And I think 10% might be generous

Runners,and to a lesser extent cyclists, are the biggest threat, exhaling all over the place and coming up behind you without any notice

Aucklanders generally don’t seem to give a shit about anyone except themselves, the asians are probably the exceptions with mask wearing anyway
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Wilderbeast wrote:I assume this your link :lol:

Yes, but I believe in being honest and can't delete any of stupidity.

It is a annoying sometimes

:lol: :blush:
Wilderbeast
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wilderbeast »

I would have thought cyclists would generally be too far away to be dangerous? Especially if they’re where they should be (on the road).
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Gordon Bennett
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Gordon Bennett »

Dark wrote:I see that the Greens and Labour are trying to get 16 year olds to get the vote again.

I know the Greens are desperate, but far out

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424 ... -age-to-16
Do you have a problem with 16 year olds voting? If so, why?

Personally, I can't see an issue with 16 year olds voting when people with dementia are allowed to. It could be argued that those who are not allowed to make decisions about their own welfare shouldn't be allowed to have a vote. If they can't even rationally assess their own needs, how can they assess an even broader view than that.

However, I don't believe that taking away rights from those who've earned them is easy or desirable.

Why 16? Well, at 16, NZ allows you to get married, own a firearms licence, consent to sex, leave home, have an adult passport and agree to or refuse medical treatment.

Ability to vote is consistent with the rights and obligations afforded to you at 16.
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terangi48
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by terangi48 »

If youre short of a face mask Dark, get up early, find a pair of scissors, and cut one of your Mrs bras in half.........they fit most sizes of tits!
brat
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by brat »

My walk includes tracks and walkways which loads of cyclists use and they come up right behind walkers unfortunately
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Fat Old Git
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Gordon Bennett wrote:
Dark wrote:I see that the Greens and Labour are trying to get 16 year olds to get the vote again.

I know the Greens are desperate, but far out

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424 ... -age-to-16
Do you have a problem with 16 year olds voting? If so, why?

Personally, I can't see an issue with 16 year olds voting when people with dementia are allowed to. It could be argued that those who are not allowed to make decisions about their own welfare shouldn't be allowed to have a vote. If they can't even rationally assess their own needs, how can they assess an even broader view than that.

However, I don't believe that taking away rights from those who've earned them is easy or desirable.

Why 16? Well, at 16, NZ allows you to get married, own a firearms licence, consent to sex, leave home, have an adult passport and agree to or refuse medical treatment.

Ability to vote is consistent with the rights and obligations afforded to you at 16.
I suspect the argument is that they are less likely to look into the issues in enough detail to make a really informed decision on how to vote. But that's also true of most adults so probably isn't the best argument.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Gordon Bennett wrote:
Dark wrote:I see that the Greens and Labour are trying to get 16 year olds to get the vote again.

I know the Greens are desperate, but far out

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424 ... -age-to-16
Do you have a problem with 16 year olds voting? If so, why?

Personally, I can't see an issue with 16 year olds voting when people with dementia are allowed to. It could be argued that those who are not allowed to make decisions about their own welfare shouldn't be allowed to have a vote. If they can't even rationally assess their own needs, how can they assess an even broader view than that.

However, I don't believe that taking away rights from those who've earned them is easy or desirable.
Because most couldn't give a shit and are easily lead, by lefty teacher union members

Sure you get the odd brainy one.

I haven't said dementia people should get the vote unless you can link to it, but they have paid taxes all their life, so whatever.

How many 16 year olds are actually going to be arsed to enrole which not doing so is against the law.

Do you want mass loads of 16 year olds getting fines? Or do they have different rules?
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Gordon Bennett
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Gordon Bennett »

Dark wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:
Dark wrote:I see that the Greens and Labour are trying to get 16 year olds to get the vote again.

I know the Greens are desperate, but far out

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424 ... -age-to-16
Do you have a problem with 16 year olds voting? If so, why?

Personally, I can't see an issue with 16 year olds voting when people with dementia are allowed to. It could be argued that those who are not allowed to make decisions about their own welfare shouldn't be allowed to have a vote. If they can't even rationally assess their own needs, how can they assess an even broader view than that.

However, I don't believe that taking away rights from those who've earned them is easy or desirable.
Because most couldn't give a shit and are easily lead, by lefty teacher union members

Sure you get the odd brainy one.

I haven't said dementia people should get the vote unless you can link to it, but they have paid taxes all their life, so whatever.

How many 16 year olds are actually going to be arsed to enrole which not doing so is against the law.

Do you want mass loads of 16 year olds getting fines? Or do they have different rules?
I wasn't saying you had; just that in NZ that is something we allow - and it is hard to argue that a dementia patient is more capable than a 16 year old.

What suddenly makes an 18 year old capable of avoiding fines that a 16 year old isn't? Your argument is absolutely spurious. Lack of interest in politics can be seen in demographics below 30 where turnout is 15% lower, on average. That's hardly unique to 16/17 year olds.
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Hareaway
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Hareaway »

Wow ok sorry for you Auckland .. heads up onward ...

What a cvnt of thing this virus is . Anyway don’t think the PM had a choice today .. 9 new cases .. etc
Much more unemployment coming .. if only they could find where this cluster came from and plug the gap .. or at least stop it happening again ..

Stay strong Auckland ..
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

16 year olds should not be able to vote because as a group - and that is the crucial point - their brains have not fully developed, they objectively lack impulse control, they lack experience of everything, and they are awful. This is known. This is known so well that no political system ever in all history and among all cultures has been developed that allows young people significant decision making power. However in this Age of Stupidity it is no surprise that that wisdom has been forgotten.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Gordon Bennett wrote:
Dark wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:
Dark wrote:I see that the Greens and Labour are trying to get 16 year olds to get the vote again.

I know the Greens are desperate, but far out

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424 ... -age-to-16
Do you have a problem with 16 year olds voting? If so, why?

Personally, I can't see an issue with 16 year olds voting when people with dementia are allowed to. It could be argued that those who are not allowed to make decisions about their own welfare shouldn't be allowed to have a vote. If they can't even rationally assess their own needs, how can they assess an even broader view than that.

However, I don't believe that taking away rights from those who've earned them is easy or desirable.
Because most couldn't give a shit and are easily lead, by lefty teacher union members

Sure you get the odd brainy one.

I haven't said dementia people should get the vote unless you can link to it, but they have paid taxes all their life, so whatever.

How many 16 year olds are actually going to be arsed to enrole which not doing so is against the law.

Do you want mass loads of 16 year olds getting fines? Or do they have different rules?
I wasn't saying you had; just that in NZ that is something we allow - and it is hard to argue that a dementia patient is more capable than a 16 year old.

What suddenly makes an 18 year old capable of avoiding fines that a 16 year old isn't? Your argument is absolutely spurious. Lack of interest in politics can be seen in demographics below 30 where turnout is 15% lower, on average. That's hardly unique to 16/17 year olds.
Lets have a look back at your reasons why they should
Why 16? Well, at 16, NZ allows you to get married, own a firearms licence, consent to sex, leave home, have an adult passport and agree to or refuse medical treatment.
Marriage: Only with both their parents agreeing to their decision or a judge
Firearms: Only with their parents agreeing to their decision
Leave home: Only with their parents agreeing to the decision, or courts
Medical: Is a mess, and down to the doctors whim. Usually the doctor gets the parents opinion.

Do you want the parents to agree to who these kids vote for, or is this going to be a special thing?
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Kahu
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Kahu »

I don't have any problem with 16 year olds voting but at least let them be able to buy alcohol and obtain a credit card as well.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Kahu wrote:I don't have any problem with 16 year olds voting but at least let them be able to buy alcohol and obtain a credit card as well.
Like your thinking.

And while we are at it we might as well put them in adult prisons as well, if they do wrong.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by blackblackblack »

Hareaway wrote:Wow ok sorry for you Auckland .. heads up onward ...

What a cvnt of thing this virus is . Anyway don’t think the PM had a choice today .. 9 new cases .. etc
Much more unemployment coming .. if only they could find where this cluster came from and plug the gap .. or at least stop it happening again ..

Stay strong Auckland ..
Cheers Harey, shit situation with the whole feed crops thing too. Cunt of a year all round.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

terangi48 wrote:If youre short of a face mask Dark, get up early, find a pair of scissors, and cut one of your Mrs bras in half.........they fit most sizes of tits!
Just make sure you make the mask out of the left cup. You don't want to go out looking like a right tit.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Muttonbirds »

I can handle L3 and L2 ok, I'm an adult and don't mean much. But I'm desperately unhappy about the 10pax restrictions on community sport at L2 in Auckland. This means youth sport is cancelled for the rest of the season. I think they've dropped the ball on this one.

And by they, I mean government and sporting organisations. While it shouldn't be up to either one or the other to formulate a workable plan for a return to sport there should have been more collaboration on this to get a plan done for kids at least.

:(
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Gordon Bennett
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Gordon Bennett »

Dark wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:
Dark wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:
Dark wrote:I see that the Greens and Labour are trying to get 16 year olds to get the vote again.

I know the Greens are desperate, but far out

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424 ... -age-to-16
Do you have a problem with 16 year olds voting? If so, why?

Personally, I can't see an issue with 16 year olds voting when people with dementia are allowed to. It could be argued that those who are not allowed to make decisions about their own welfare shouldn't be allowed to have a vote. If they can't even rationally assess their own needs, how can they assess an even broader view than that.

However, I don't believe that taking away rights from those who've earned them is easy or desirable.
Because most couldn't give a shit and are easily lead, by lefty teacher union members

Sure you get the odd brainy one.

I haven't said dementia people should get the vote unless you can link to it, but they have paid taxes all their life, so whatever.

How many 16 year olds are actually going to be arsed to enrole which not doing so is against the law.

Do you want mass loads of 16 year olds getting fines? Or do they have different rules?
I wasn't saying you had; just that in NZ that is something we allow - and it is hard to argue that a dementia patient is more capable than a 16 year old.

What suddenly makes an 18 year old capable of avoiding fines that a 16 year old isn't? Your argument is absolutely spurious. Lack of interest in politics can be seen in demographics below 30 where turnout is 15% lower, on average. That's hardly unique to 16/17 year olds.
Lets have a look back at your reasons why they should
Why 16? Well, at 16, NZ allows you to get married, own a firearms licence, consent to sex, leave home, have an adult passport and agree to or refuse medical treatment.
Marriage: Only with both their parents agreeing to their decision or a judge
Firearms: Only with their parents agreeing to their decision
Leave home: Only with their parents agreeing to the decision, or courts
Medical: Is a mess, and down to the doctors whim. Usually the doctor gets the parents opinion.

Do you want the parents to agree to who these kids vote for, or is this going to be a special thing?
We allow and often require a trusted person to take a dementia patient to the voting booth and, effectively, vote by proxy on their behalf. 16 year olds are allowed to do those things and I believe they’re as competent as any 18 year old to make a decision to enrol and decide on what basis to vote. A number of countries across continents allow 16 year olds to vote. I just don’t see the problem; except for patronising prejudice against the young.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Gordon Bennett wrote:
Dark wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:
Dark wrote: Because most couldn't give a shit and are easily lead, by lefty teacher union members

Sure you get the odd brainy one.

I haven't said dementia people should get the vote unless you can link to it, but they have paid taxes all their life, so whatever.

How many 16 year olds are actually going to be arsed to enrole which not doing so is against the law.

Do you want mass loads of 16 year olds getting fines? Or do they have different rules?
I wasn't saying you had; just that in NZ that is something we allow - and it is hard to argue that a dementia patient is more capable than a 16 year old.

What suddenly makes an 18 year old capable of avoiding fines that a 16 year old isn't? Your argument is absolutely spurious. Lack of interest in politics can be seen in demographics below 30 where turnout is 15% lower, on average. That's hardly unique to 16/17 year olds.
Lets have a look back at your reasons why they should
Why 16? Well, at 16, NZ allows you to get married, own a firearms licence, consent to sex, leave home, have an adult passport and agree to or refuse medical treatment.
Marriage: Only with both their parents agreeing to their decision or a judge
Firearms: Only with their parents agreeing to their decision
Leave home: Only with their parents agreeing to the decision, or courts
Medical: Is a mess, and down to the doctors whim. Usually the doctor gets the parents opinion.

Do you want the parents to agree to who these kids vote for, or is this going to be a special thing?
We allow and often require a trusted person to take a dementia patient to the voting booth and, effectively, vote by proxy on their behalf. 16 year olds are allowed to do those things and I believe they’re as competent as any 18 year old to make a decision to enrol and decide on what basis to vote. A number of countries across continents allow 16 year olds to vote. I just don’t see the problem; except for patronising prejudice against the young.
Yes because they have paid tax all their lives. And there really isn't enough to make much difference.

And as I said I wouldn't worry if they couldn't

You seem to be unable to argue my points about your reasoning.

Why are you not petitioning weed be legal in the referendum and alcohol to 16 year olds, given you think they are so mature?

Or while we are at it the end of life bill eligibility
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Actually back on that.

You have to be 18 to off yourself from a terminal illness under the end of life bill.

I am assuming you think this should be 16?
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Gordon Bennett
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Gordon Bennett »

That is massive false equivalence - and if I have to explain why, you’re a bigger imbecile than I thought. And tax is a massive red herring as well. If you can’t or won’t debate the actual points without resorting to bullshit false equivalence then I’m not going to waste my time.
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blackblackblack
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by blackblackblack »

Gordon Bennett wrote:That is massive false equivalence
No that's just TMAB.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Gordon Bennett wrote:That is massive false equivalence - and if I have to explain why, you’re a bigger imbecile than I thought. And tax is a massive red herring as well. If you can’t or won’t debate the actual points without resorting to bullshit false equivalence then I’m not going to waste my time.
You forgot your own post
However, I don't believe that taking away rights from those who've earned them is easy or desirable.

Why 16? Well, at 16, NZ allows you to get married, own a firearms licence, consent to sex, leave home, have an adult passport and agree to or refuse medical treatment.

Ability to vote is consistent with the rights and obligations afforded to you at 16.
Which rights does it not?

Drinking?
Weed?
Right to die?

It is your argument

Can't be that hard a question

Edit: bearing in mind most of the ones you mentioned actually need parental consent
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Which brings up should 16 year olds need parental consent to vote, like your marrying, medical, firearms and leaving home?

And if so how is this organised?
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Ted.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

Gordon Bennett wrote:That is massive false equivalence - and if I have to explain why, you’re a bigger imbecile than I thought. And tax is a massive red herring as well. If you can’t or won’t debate the actual points without resorting to bullshit false equivalence then I’m not going to waste my time.
Put him on ignore. It only feels as if you have failed humanity until you actually do it, then the feeling is one of utter relief and space.

Given Mutton is cast from the same die, whack him too. :thumbup:
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Ted. wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:That is massive false equivalence - and if I have to explain why, you’re a bigger imbecile than I thought. And tax is a massive red herring as well. If you can’t or won’t debate the actual points without resorting to bullshit false equivalence then I’m not going to waste my time.
Put him on ignore. It only feels as if you have failed humanity until you actually do it, then the feeling is one of utter relief and space.

Given Mutton is cast from the same die, whack him too. :thumbup:

Understood. Ted wants 16 year olds to be given the vote
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Mr Mike
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Mr Mike »

Anything been happening lately?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

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  • test wrote:##test##
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