NZ Politics Thread

All things Rugby
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6471
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Just coming out with the dudes locations of interest.

Westfield mall food court...........

Brilliant.

Edit:

The locations of interest include Westfield St Lukes Food Court, which the case visited on Saturday April 17, between 12:15pm and 2:30pm.

The case also went to Bunnings New Lynn, between 2:30pm and 3:50pm, and Movenpick Dominion Road, between 5:15pm to 7:20pm, on the same day. (Who spends 2 hours eating ice-cream?)
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6471
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

naki111 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:46 am
Dark wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:06 am Surprise surprise. Ardern broke the law with Ihumatao

Couldn't run a bath this lot.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/governmen ... 3PAU7IZUU/

And another border worker has Covid.
Cheers Dark.

Thank fuck you're around to keep the bastards honest.
No problem.

When you have Ardern trying to change the law and jail people for free speech (3 years), like some sort of communist dictator, someone has to stand up for the common man.

I realise these posts my get me picked up by one of her foot soldiers and secreted away, but I am willing to go against her kind of far right fascist hatred of free think.
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6471
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:42 am
Enzedder wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:25 am Happy Anzac day from the National Party

Image

Wrong on so many levels
Enz, I'd ask if this was a wilful misrepresentation by you about who created & posted this image, but of course it bloody was.

This was posted on the "National Party's Meme Working Group" FB page. In the page description, it explicitly states:
"We are not the National Party nor are we associated with them.
https://www.facebook.com/nznpmwg/

Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you, but what is completely wrong is to claim this image is" from the National Party" unless you have proof to the contrary.

As Ardie would say, be better bro.
:lol:

TBF probably a better way of pointing it out than me.
User avatar
Enzedder
Posts: 20960
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: End of the road, turn right and first house on the left

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Ghost-Of-Nepia wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:42 am

Enz, I'd ask if this was a wilful misrepresentation by you about who created & posted this image, but of course it bloody was.

This was posted on the "National Party's Meme Working Group" FB page. In the page description, it explicitly states:
"We are not the National Party nor are we associated with them.
https://www.facebook.com/nznpmwg/

Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you, but what is completely wrong is to claim this image is" from the National Party" unless you have proof to the contrary.

As Ardie would say, be better bro.
Oops - that was lazy on my part (I have amended my earlier post) but I wasn't clicking on the page that appeared on my feed. Still, it represents National Party voters and supporters thoughts I would guess (no, not all of them)
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6471
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Enzedder wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:14 am it represents National Party voters and supporters thoughts I would guess (no, not all of them)
I think only in your head Enz
User avatar
Fat Old Git
Posts: 21823
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: A vacant lot next to a pile of rubble

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

I doubt very much that many National party supporters or landlords think landlords are the equivalent of those who fought in the war. :?
User avatar
jambanja
Posts: 5290
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: The other side of midnight

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by jambanja »

Enzedder wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:45 am It is - but is it practical (i.e. are the volumes China want too high for us to manage so we may as well send the cows before someone else does)?
The live export is of breeding or milking stock, it is not intended as meat in the short term anyway.
They are worth far more to the farmers in that format than if they were to slaughter and process them her, which is what they will now do to stock they have no need for.
From the cows perspective, if it makes the journey, and I have no idea what % don’t, but you would have to think that the vast majority do (otherwise it wouldn’t be worth it) they get to live a lot longer than they normally would, otherwise they end up as pet food or some such
naki111
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by naki111 »

Dark wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:02 am
naki111 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:46 am
Dark wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:06 am Surprise surprise. Ardern broke the law with Ihumatao

Couldn't run a bath this lot.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/governmen ... 3PAU7IZUU/

And another border worker has Covid.
Cheers Dark.

Thank fuck you're around to keep the bastards honest.
No problem.

When you have Ardern trying to change the law and jail people for free speech (3 years), like some sort of communist dictator, someone has to stand up for the common man.
I don't follow this thread as religiously as I used to. Link to this?
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6471
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

naki111 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:34 am
Dark wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:02 am
naki111 wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:46 am
Dark wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:06 am Surprise surprise. Ardern broke the law with Ihumatao

Couldn't run a bath this lot.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/governmen ... 3PAU7IZUU/

And another border worker has Covid.
Cheers Dark.

Thank fuck you're around to keep the bastards honest.
No problem.

When you have Ardern trying to change the law and jail people for free speech (3 years), like some sort of communist dictator, someone has to stand up for the common man.
I don't follow this thread as religiously as I used to. Link to this?
Ardern has said no one is allowed totalk about it till she decides it is ok to do so

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics ... paign.html
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern 'disheartened' by ACT's anti-hate speech law campaign

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says ACT's campaign against hate speech reforms has "disheartened" her because the Government is yet to make any decisions.

But ACT leader David Seymour immediately pushed back, saying he's equally "disheartened" by the Prime Minister's suggestion his party is not willing to engage.

The long-awaited reforms of hate speech laws in the aftermath of the 2019 Christchurch terror attack could include expanded penalties for breaching the law, according to a Cabinet paper obtained by Newsroom.

The Cabinet paper purportedly says hate speech offences would move from the Human Rights Act to the Crimes Act, with a three-year penalty - more than assaulting a child, male assaults female, participating in a riot and common assault.

Hate speech would be extended from applying just to discrimination on racial, ethnic and national origin grounds to also include rainbow communities, religious minorities, as well as age or disability.

Seymour, a strong opponent of hate speech laws, has launched a free speech tour in 13 centres across New Zealand to raise awareness.

"Democracy and the ability to have civil and honest conversations is already becoming imperilled, which is why this is the worst possible time to empower lynch mobs who choose to take offence at ideas they don't support," he says.

"I am the first person to say we could all do better at being respectful in the way we deal with each other, but redefining free speech as a criminal offence will have the opposite effect as it is inconsistent with the rule of law."

But Ardern said on Monday the Government has not yet made final decisions.

"I'm really disheartened to see the ACT Party has started a campaign on something that has not even been concluded by the Government yet," she said.
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 34557
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

National are a basket case with no hope, says supporter
Bridges' recent statements are described as "vandalous" (if intentional) or "incompetent" (if accidental). Luxon's attempts to be John Key 2.0 are lampooned as futile and pathetic, with the advice that he should develop "his own political brand and skills. And those will need to be as different from Key as Key was from Brash, or Jim Bolger from Robert Muldoon. Prime Ministers don't get elected because they remind voters of their predecessors."

Collins is subtlely painted as hollow (as she has turned out to have a "much less stable ideological framework and policy roadmap than assumed. It makes her not quite true to brand.") But she should stay in the job for now, Hooton says, because to have Luxon take over "just six months after he entered Parliament would open National up to further ridicule, and risk another failed leadership".

The problems are bigger than the fact that National lacks any obvious leader. Hooton argues the party is in a worse position than in other recent times: "The party is in much worse shape than in 1985 or 2003. Back then it had at least achieved outstanding intakes in 1981 and 1984, with more to follow in 1987. In 2002, three future leaders joined its team — Brash, Key and Collins — and more talent was on its way in 2005. At the same time, MPs had their heads down, thinking seriously about the sort of party National needed to become."

He paints a picture of a party that is simply not up to the task of rebuilding and working out what it should stand for, contrasting the current MPs to those of the past who were capable of intellectual self-critique: "No such debate is possible in today's National because, with some exceptions, the MPs the party sends to Wellington lack the life experience, background knowledge, intellectual resources, personal inclination and social networks to even have them. They have no idea what a post-Key National Party might look like, or even why that issue needs to be addressed. They are preoccupied with themselves and events in Parliament, oblivious that no one cares. They do not know how to think about a problem, spend the necessary months deeply engaging with those working on or affected by it, reviewing ideas about how to tackle it, and then designing an effective and hopefully popular way to fix it. Mostly, their policy gets bashed out a day or so before it is announced, or is just picked up from some Wellington industry group."

None of this is likely to change, Hooton says, because of the inherent arrogance of those in the caucus: "They nevertheless remain very sure of their own cachet in society, especially in their local Koru Club. They are correct that Jacinda Ardern's Government is comically incompetent, but inexplicably think they are equipped to do better."

Hooton isn't the only one saying that National needs to focus on the substance rather than the style. Peter Dunne has recently argued that National needs to sort out what it stands for before it thinks about leadership.

Here's Dunne's key point: "Is it a traditional liberal/conservative party as it was in its recent successful heyday, or is morphing into something else? A hard-line law and order party of religious and moral conservatives? Or just a paler version of the modern Labour Party? At the moment, National is showing at different times and to different audiences contradictory signs of trying to be all of these things, leaving its message looking confused, constrained, and half-baked."
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6471
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

guy smiley wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:53 am National are a basket case with no hope, says supporter
Bridges' recent statements are described as "vandalous" (if intentional) or "incompetent" (if accidental). Luxon's attempts to be John Key 2.0 are lampooned as futile and pathetic, with the advice that he should develop "his own political brand and skills. And those will need to be as different from Key as Key was from Brash, or Jim Bolger from Robert Muldoon. Prime Ministers don't get elected because they remind voters of their predecessors."

Collins is subtlely painted as hollow (as she has turned out to have a "much less stable ideological framework and policy roadmap than assumed. It makes her not quite true to brand.") But she should stay in the job for now, Hooton says, because to have Luxon take over "just six months after he entered Parliament would open National up to further ridicule, and risk another failed leadership".

The problems are bigger than the fact that National lacks any obvious leader. Hooton argues the party is in a worse position than in other recent times: "The party is in much worse shape than in 1985 or 2003. Back then it had at least achieved outstanding intakes in 1981 and 1984, with more to follow in 1987. In 2002, three future leaders joined its team — Brash, Key and Collins — and more talent was on its way in 2005. At the same time, MPs had their heads down, thinking seriously about the sort of party National needed to become."

He paints a picture of a party that is simply not up to the task of rebuilding and working out what it should stand for, contrasting the current MPs to those of the past who were capable of intellectual self-critique: "No such debate is possible in today's National because, with some exceptions, the MPs the party sends to Wellington lack the life experience, background knowledge, intellectual resources, personal inclination and social networks to even have them. They have no idea what a post-Key National Party might look like, or even why that issue needs to be addressed. They are preoccupied with themselves and events in Parliament, oblivious that no one cares. They do not know how to think about a problem, spend the necessary months deeply engaging with those working on or affected by it, reviewing ideas about how to tackle it, and then designing an effective and hopefully popular way to fix it. Mostly, their policy gets bashed out a day or so before it is announced, or is just picked up from some Wellington industry group."

None of this is likely to change, Hooton says, because of the inherent arrogance of those in the caucus: "They nevertheless remain very sure of their own cachet in society, especially in their local Koru Club. They are correct that Jacinda Ardern's Government is comically incompetent, but inexplicably think they are equipped to do better."

Hooton isn't the only one saying that National needs to focus on the substance rather than the style. Peter Dunne has recently argued that National needs to sort out what it stands for before it thinks about leadership.

Here's Dunne's key point: "Is it a traditional liberal/conservative party as it was in its recent successful heyday, or is morphing into something else? A hard-line law and order party of religious and moral conservatives? Or just a paler version of the modern Labour Party? At the moment, National is showing at different times and to different audiences contradictory signs of trying to be all of these things, leaving its message looking confused, constrained, and half-baked."
See your problem with this is with Covid no one actually cares what the Nats do.

The only ones in control of anything in the entire country are Labour, they can't follow through on anything, keep cocking up the bits they try and they haven't even got Winston to blame it on anymore.

So every article about some murmurs of the Nats changing a leader and such is kind of pointless.

But if it helps divert your personal attention from the govts continued ineptitude, then all good.
User avatar
booji boy
Posts: 9452
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 9:12 am

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

jambanja wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:32 am
Enzedder wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:45 am It is - but is it practical (i.e. are the volumes China want too high for us to manage so we may as well send the cows before someone else does)?
The live export is of breeding or milking stock, it is not intended as meat in the short term anyway.
They are worth far more to the farmers in that format than if they were to slaughter and process them her, which is what they will now do to stock they have no need for.
From the cows perspective, if it makes the journey, and I have no idea what % don’t, but you would have to think that the vast majority do (otherwise it wouldn’t be worth it) they get to live a lot longer than they normally would, otherwise they end up as pet food or some such
Apparently 99.5% of the live exports survive the 17-21 day journey. About the same as the survival rate in our local paddocks. They then go on to a life of approximately 7 years as productive dairy cows. If the Chinese have paid such a lot of money for them they want to take care of their investment so the animals are well fed and carefully looked after for the duration of the journey. But oh no, the Greens and Labour can't have the live export of livestock. It might be a rough journey. The poor cows! We must stop such cruelty. Instead, as you say they will now be slaughtered as they are surplus to our local requirements. Just ideological nonsense as usual and the loss of further overseas export earnings.
User avatar
Tehui
Posts: 16516
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Tehui »

Fat Old Git wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:30 am I doubt very much that many National party supporters or landlords think landlords are the equivalent of those who fought in the war. :?
I'll be honest. I'm not sure what key messages the cartoon is trying to emphasise. I could make multiple inferences from it.
User avatar
Ted.
Posts: 18343
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

Enzedder wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:38 am
booji boy wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:35 am
Enzedder wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:45 am It is - but is it practical (i.e. are the volumes China want too high for us to manage so we may as well send the cows before someone else does)?
The animals were going to be grazed and farmed in China and used as breeding stock not sent straight to the freezing works.
Hence why I used the term dairy cows and not beef - by volumes I mean of processed milk.
Yeah, it's an odd response. Let's not even make them work for the competitive advantage we are needlessly giving away for a few quick bucks.
User avatar
Mr Mike
Posts: 11181
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Texas

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Mr Mike »

The only people who should be happy about National’s current dysfunction are true partisans who care more about power and preserving the status quo than genuinely progressive policies that benefits Kiwis and effect long term structural change.

One of the reasons Labour can continue to get away with not delivering meaningful change is because of the absence of a functioning opposition and an absence of competition for votes. Housing inequalities have accelerated under this current Government and mental health services have apparently continued to deteriorate*.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... data-shows

It is a continuation of a pattern of monopolies and duopolies that has not served NZ well in other area and is having dire consequences in the market of ideas and policy also. National didn’t have the discipline that a genuine opposition provides either and we all all saw the consequences.

We can forget about self-policing, partisans on each side lack the discipline to care about inequity regardless of the party branding that a Government of the day wears. “Winning” is simply about beating the other team and staying in power. There is no pressure to use that power to fix the issues people said that they cared so deeply about when the other team held the whip.

Anyone who genuinely cares about the long term effects of poverty, housing inequality and mental health should be appalled by this administrations record of failure, but who really cares? For so many those are just convenient talking points to beat the Government of the day with to help get your team back and not genuine values or principles.

“What you allow, you encourage.”

* thanks to Enz directing everyone to that meme page where they had this article from the Guardian.
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6471
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Agree with the health boards, the govt have actually done something

Not the new Maori Authority
Major health sector shake-up: DHBs scrapped and new Māori Health Authority announced

District health boards are being scrapped in a radical shake-up of the health system.

Health Minister Andrew Little has announced details to health leaders at Parliament this morning.

The 20 district health boards which run services for individual areas around the country will be replaced by one new body, Health NZ, which will instead plan services for the whole population.

Health NZ will have four regional divisions but also district offices.

It will delegate authority to local levels so regional services have a say in what they need and how they work, Little says.

"The system must work in true partnership with Māori... Māori still suffer, on average, worse health than others."

There will also be a new Māori Health Authority, sitting alongside that, to both set policies for Māori health and to decide and fund those who will deliver services.

The new Māori Health Authority will "have the power to directly commission health services for Māori".

The country's 30 primary health organisations - large regional networks of GPs and primary care - will also be ditched.

And, on the back of Covid 19, there will be a new Public Health Agency which will target widespread health problems - like smoking - and try to prepare for pandemics and epidemics.

Little says today's announcement is a plan to create a "truly national health service" that "draws on the best that we have now" but reduces pressure on healthcare workers and hospitals and specialist services.
User avatar
Fat Old Git
Posts: 21823
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: A vacant lot next to a pile of rubble

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Mr Mike wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:54 am The only people who should be happy about National’s current dysfunction are true partisans who care more about power and preserving the status quo than genuinely progressive policies that benefits Kiwis and effect long term structural change.

One of the reasons Labour can continue to get away with not delivering meaningful change is because of the absence of a functioning opposition and an absence of competition for votes. Housing inequalities have accelerated under this current Government and mental health services have apparently continued to deteriorate*.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... data-shows

It is a continuation of a pattern of monopolies and duopolies that has not served NZ well in other area and is having dire consequences in the market of ideas and policy also. National didn’t have the discipline that a genuine opposition provides either and we all all saw the consequences.

We can forget about self-policing, partisans on each side lack the discipline to care about inequity regardless of the party branding that a Government of the day wears. “Winning” is simply about beating the other team and staying in power. There is no pressure to use that power to fix the issues people said that they cared so deeply about when the other team held the whip.

Anyone who genuinely cares about the long term effects of poverty, housing inequality and mental health should be appalled by this administrations record of failure, but who really cares? For so many those are just convenient talking points to beat the Government of the day with to help get your team back and not genuine values or principles.

“What you allow, you encourage.”

* thanks to Enz directing everyone to that meme page where they had this article from the Guardian.
Yeah, it's strange how some care more about "their side" being in control, and / or the other "side" losing, than what they are actually achieving. Having a weak opposition doesn't do any of us any favored. In an ideal democracy you want a strong capable government, and a strong opposition pushing them. But unfortunately we never see that.
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 34557
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

:shock:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... olish-dhbs
The Government will abolish all 20 District Health Boards and create a single health organisation, in a sweeping plan to centralise New Zealand’s fragmented healthcare system and end the “postcode lottery” of care.

Health Minister Andrew Little on Wednesday announced the Government will create a national health organisation, akin to the United Kingdom’s NHS, and also a Māori Health Authority with spending power, and a new Public Health Authority to centralise public health work.

The radical shake-up, which goes beyond the recommendations from the Government-appointed Health and Disability Systems Review, could fundamentally change how New Zealanders receive healthcare.

“The reforms will mean that for the first time, we will have a truly national health system, and the kind of treatment people get will no longer be determined by where they live,” Little said, at an announcement in Parliament on Wednesday.

READ MORE:
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 34557
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

The focus on primary care was hoped to take pressure off the nation’s hospitals, which are working through a rising tide of illness.

“We will treat people before they get sick so they don’t need to go to hospital, thereby taking the pressure off hospitals,” Little said.

There is a GP shortage across the country that was expected to worsen. On average, GPs are 53 years old and nearly half are due to retire over the next decade. High patient numbers in Counties Manukau’s emergency department led the district health board to pay help pay for GP appointments to ease pressure on the hospital last month.

“We are going to put the emphasis squarely on primary and community healthcare and will do away with duplication and unnecessary bureaucracy between regions, so that our health workers can do what they do best - keep people well,” Little said. Alongside Health NZ will be the Māori Health Authority.

The Government has decided this authority should be independent and have “joint decision-making rights” for healthcare strategies and policies which affect Māori – who are currently chronically underserved by the healthcare system.

The authority will have some independent commissioning power, and it will work with Health NZ to decide where health dollars are spent for services for Māori.

“It will be able to directly commission services where needed, and to grow kaupapa Māori services and innovation,” Associate Minister of Health Peeni Henare said on Wednesday.

A Public Health Agency will replace the country’s 30 public health organisations, a network of agencies which have come under strain during the Covid-19 pandemic response.

The Ministry of Health will remain in overarching control of the health system, and the director-general of health, currently Dr Ashley Bloomfield, will continue to lead the health sector.

The ministry will not be responsible for running hospitals or commissioning healthcare spending, instead focusing explicitly on providing policy advice to the Government.


They've been reading my posts :D :roll:

This is an excellent move. Game changer.
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6471
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

guy smiley wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:25 pm
The focus on primary care was hoped to take pressure off the nation’s hospitals, which are working through a rising tide of illness.

“We will treat people before they get sick so they don’t need to go to hospital, thereby taking the pressure off hospitals,” Little said.

There is a GP shortage across the country that was expected to worsen. On average, GPs are 53 years old and nearly half are due to retire over the next decade. High patient numbers in Counties Manukau’s emergency department led the district health board to pay help pay for GP appointments to ease pressure on the hospital last month.

“We are going to put the emphasis squarely on primary and community healthcare and will do away with duplication and unnecessary bureaucracy between regions, so that our health workers can do what they do best - keep people well,” Little said. Alongside Health NZ will be the Māori Health Authority.

The Government has decided this authority should be independent and have “joint decision-making rights” for healthcare strategies and policies which affect Māori – who are currently chronically underserved by the healthcare system.

The authority will have some independent commissioning power, and it will work with Health NZ to decide where health dollars are spent for services for Māori.

“It will be able to directly commission services where needed, and to grow kaupapa Māori services and innovation,” Associate Minister of Health Peeni Henare said on Wednesday.

A Public Health Agency will replace the country’s 30 public health organisations, a network of agencies which have come under strain during the Covid-19 pandemic response.

The Ministry of Health will remain in overarching control of the health system, and the director-general of health, currently Dr Ashley Bloomfield, will continue to lead the health sector.

The ministry will not be responsible for running hospitals or commissioning healthcare spending, instead focusing explicitly on providing policy advice to the Government.


They've been reading my posts :D :roll:

This is an excellent move. Game changer.
Actually getting something right (the DHBs) for the first time in 4 years is hardly a game changer, but credit where credit is due.
User avatar
terangi48
Posts: 1836
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:18 pm

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by terangi48 »

'It cannot be a separate' - Collins says Māori health inequities can be solved without dedicated authority.

Why not? Private Hospitals are......and doctors work in both.
User avatar
Ted.
Posts: 18343
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

About bloody time.

The DHBs were a bastard hybrid that has never worked as well as a health system should. Also, the MOH is so hidebound in policy work and so far removed from frontline health delivery, that it needs to be concentrate on the specialised advice role it is allergy doing already.
User avatar
Ted.
Posts: 18343
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

And the response.
Leader of the Opposition Judith Collins has slammed the Government's proposed new national health service saying that it is the wrong time, will be too centralised in Wellington and that the new proposed Māori Health Authority is a move towards a “separatist model”.

In an interview with Stuff, Collins lashed the new proposal, which would abolish the current District Health Boards and replace it with one big new health authority called Health New Zealand that would be overseen by the Ministry of Health.

...

“We have all sorts of issues right now. Now is not the time to be restructuring in the middle of a pandemic and an inability to get vaccines out,” Collins said.

Collins said that a new mega agency wouldn’t necessarily fix poorly performing DHBs.

“One of the reasons is, if you take organisations that are dysfunctional – and some of the DHBs clearly are – and you add them all together, you end up with one big dysfunctional mess, and that is the problem.” I am not sure that is an accurate representation of the proposed changes, Judith

Collins said that National was committed to continuing the DHB model, although possibly not in its current form. She said that pointing the finger for health dysfunction at the feet of DHBs misplaced blame.

“I think what is very clear from the pandemic too is how utterly hopeless the Ministry of Health has been in letting us know what is happening. I wouldn't just blame the DHBs.” I think it more a good dollop from each and I think do know that, Judith

...

Collins’ National Party health spokesman Shane Reti, a medical doctor and former Northland DHB member also called for the retention of DHBs.

“The Government should be looking to maintain regional identities and exploring the consolidation of some functions across DHBs, like asset management, not getting rid of them entirely,” Reti said.

...

National is implacably opposed to a separate Māori Health Authority and Collins said that National would repeal any such authority in office. That's the spirit. get them votes in.

“This is another move down a separatist model,” she said.

“We are absolutely adamant that we will repeal any separate healthcare model,” she told Stuff.

Collins said that the change would result in “giving people operations based on race not on need,” something she said will not sit well with New Zealanders.

Collins also said that the radical changes were the sign of a Government wielding an absolute parliamentary majority. You know how to fix that.
A little more reasoning rather than blind, vote garnering rhetoric would have been nice. Mind you, apart from supporting the shake up, there really isn't much else National can say, or is there?
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 34557
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

I think she's played the race card early... perhaps there's no other alternative.
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6471
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:02 am I think she's played the race card early... perhaps there's no other alternative.
TBF the separate Authority is a pretty stupid idea.
User avatar
Kiwias
Posts: 42055
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Kiwias »

guy smiley wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:49 am
brat wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:40 am Guy ..you’d get more agreement with the labour rednecks that infest the Facebook comments section where everyone gets abuse if they dare question ardern or the government - they’re all too stupid to refute any points(and can’t spell)- but merely attack/abuse the messenger .. almost cult like..very embarrassing

You come across as being far too clever for that lot - but not with that last ‘judiths’ comment

The roll out has been a failure..it’s ok to admit the failings of your beloved govt
Brat, a quick google took me to the government's Vaccine strategy page and I found it really easy to find their planned timetable / breakdown of supply targets.

They're right on track with where they said they wanted to be.
That is a very easy to understand site. Here, even my GP has no f**king idea on when the general public is going to get its vaccines. He doesn't even know when he will be vaccinated. And don't even think of trying to find any meaningful information on the government's website.
User avatar
Fat Old Git
Posts: 21823
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: A vacant lot next to a pile of rubble

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

terangi48 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:16 am 'It cannot be a separate' - Collins says Māori health inequities can be solved without dedicated authority.

Why not? Private Hospitals are......and doctors work in both.
It will be interesting to see how it work. I'm guessing it won't be a straight duplication of basic services but with different focuses, and will instead share core facilities. Something that happens now with DHBS often utilizing private services rather than duplicating the capacity.

It will trigger the usual mob though who will think this is special treatment rather than a potential way of addressing years of inequality and poor outcomes for Maori. Something that will benefit us all if it can be addressed properly.
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 34557
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:25 am
terangi48 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:16 am 'It cannot be a separate' - Collins says Māori health inequities can be solved without dedicated authority.

Why not? Private Hospitals are......and doctors work in both.
It will be interesting to see how it work. I'm guessing it won't be a straight duplication of basic services but with different focuses, and will instead share core facilities. Something that happens now with DHBS often utilizing private services rather than duplicating the capacity.

It will trigger the usual mob though who will think this is special treatment rather than a potential way of addressing years of inequality and poor outcomes for Maori. Something that will benefit us all if it can be addressed properly.
If you compare to other Commonwealth countries with sizeable indigenous populations governed by almost exclusively white parliaments historically... say Canada and Aus, then providing targetted health policy to those indigenous populations seems so logical as to be a no brainer because of the specific health issues prevalent but also the cultural difficulties surrounding access and provision of service.

Overall you'd think it should be more efficient to split resources like this. I like the emphasis placed on prevention strategies to reduce the load of hospital services. That goes hand in hand with seperating the services for Maori and Pakeha.
User avatar
Fat Old Git
Posts: 21823
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: A vacant lot next to a pile of rubble

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:31 am
Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:25 am
terangi48 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:16 am 'It cannot be a separate' - Collins says Māori health inequities can be solved without dedicated authority.

Why not? Private Hospitals are......and doctors work in both.
It will be interesting to see how it work. I'm guessing it won't be a straight duplication of basic services but with different focuses, and will instead share core facilities. Something that happens now with DHBS often utilizing private services rather than duplicating the capacity.

It will trigger the usual mob though who will think this is special treatment rather than a potential way of addressing years of inequality and poor outcomes for Maori. Something that will benefit us all if it can be addressed properly.
If you compare to other Commonwealth countries with sizeable indigenous populations governed by almost exclusively white parliaments historically... say Canada and Aus, then providing targetted health policy to those indigenous populations seems so logical as to be a no brainer because of the specific health issues prevalent but also the cultural difficulties surrounding access and provision of service.

Overall you'd think it should be more efficient to split resources like this. I like the emphasis placed on prevention strategies to reduce the load of hospital services. That goes hand in hand with seperating the services for Maori and Pakeha.
If they can get it to work well it could be a good model for providing care to some other disadvantaged groups as well. Groups where there might be a language barrier, or a cultural barrier such as it not being considered respectful to speak up to, question, or disagree with a doctor who may have made some incorrect assumption, or not have the full facts.
User avatar
booji boy
Posts: 9452
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 9:12 am

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:46 am
guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:31 am
Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:25 am
terangi48 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:16 am 'It cannot be a separate' - Collins says Māori health inequities can be solved without dedicated authority.

Why not? Private Hospitals are......and doctors work in both.
It will be interesting to see how it work. I'm guessing it won't be a straight duplication of basic services but with different focuses, and will instead share core facilities. Something that happens now with DHBS often utilizing private services rather than duplicating the capacity.

It will trigger the usual mob though who will think this is special treatment rather than a potential way of addressing years of inequality and poor outcomes for Maori. Something that will benefit us all if it can be addressed properly.
If you compare to other Commonwealth countries with sizeable indigenous populations governed by almost exclusively white parliaments historically... say Canada and Aus, then providing targetted health policy to those indigenous populations seems so logical as to be a no brainer because of the specific health issues prevalent but also the cultural difficulties surrounding access and provision of service.

Overall you'd think it should be more efficient to split resources like this. I like the emphasis placed on prevention strategies to reduce the load of hospital services. That goes hand in hand with seperating the services for Maori and Pakeha.
If they can get it to work well it could be a good model for providing care to some other disadvantaged groups as well. Groups where there might be a language barrier, or a cultural barrier such as it not being considered respectful to speak up to, question, or disagree with a doctor who may have made some incorrect assumption, or not have the full facts.
Geeze really? We already have a shortage of qualified health professionals. Wait times for appointments are weeks just to see a GP and months for specialists. How are we going to create all these separate services? And we don't have a bottomless pit of money. Healthcare is already hugely expensive.

Getting rid of the DHB's will hopefully save some costs but whether those cost efficiencies will see more money available for frontline staff, equipment, drugs etc we'll have to wait and see.
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6471
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:31 am
Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:25 am
terangi48 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:16 am 'It cannot be a separate' - Collins says Māori health inequities can be solved without dedicated authority.

Why not? Private Hospitals are......and doctors work in both.
It will be interesting to see how it work. I'm guessing it won't be a straight duplication of basic services but with different focuses, and will instead share core facilities. Something that happens now with DHBS often utilizing private services rather than duplicating the capacity.

It will trigger the usual mob though who will think this is special treatment rather than a potential way of addressing years of inequality and poor outcomes for Maori. Something that will benefit us all if it can be addressed properly.
If you compare to other Commonwealth countries with sizeable indigenous populations governed by almost exclusively white parliaments historically... say Canada and Aus, then providing targetted health policy to those indigenous populations seems so logical as to be a no brainer because of the specific health issues prevalent but also the cultural difficulties surrounding access and provision of service.

Overall you'd think it should be more efficient to split resources like this. I like the emphasis placed on prevention strategies to reduce the load of hospital services. That goes hand in hand with seperating the services for Maori and Pakeha.
It isn't separating the services for Maori and Pakeha.

BTW, Just out of interest why do Labour and their supporters (ala you) hate Pacific Islanders so much?

They have nearly as I bad health stats yet "sod them" Ardern says.

In between crippling them financially by refusing to have a bubble.
User avatar
UncleFB
Posts: 13794
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:10 am
guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:02 am I think she's played the race card early... perhaps there's no other alternative.
TBF the separate Authority is a pretty stupid idea.
Weird that you don't like it considering you've always been quite favourable of the Maori Party.

Hopefully if they do run it they it is better implemented than Whanau Ora.
User avatar
UncleFB
Posts: 13794
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:11 am
guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:31 am
Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:25 am
terangi48 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:16 am 'It cannot be a separate' - Collins says Māori health inequities can be solved without dedicated authority.

Why not? Private Hospitals are......and doctors work in both.
It will be interesting to see how it work. I'm guessing it won't be a straight duplication of basic services but with different focuses, and will instead share core facilities. Something that happens now with DHBS often utilizing private services rather than duplicating the capacity.

It will trigger the usual mob though who will think this is special treatment rather than a potential way of addressing years of inequality and poor outcomes for Maori. Something that will benefit us all if it can be addressed properly.
If you compare to other Commonwealth countries with sizeable indigenous populations governed by almost exclusively white parliaments historically... say Canada and Aus, then providing targetted health policy to those indigenous populations seems so logical as to be a no brainer because of the specific health issues prevalent but also the cultural difficulties surrounding access and provision of service.

Overall you'd think it should be more efficient to split resources like this. I like the emphasis placed on prevention strategies to reduce the load of hospital services. That goes hand in hand with seperating the services for Maori and Pakeha.
It isn't separating the services for Maori and Pakeha.

BTW, Just out of interest why do Labour and their supporters (ala you) hate Pacific Islanders so much?

They have nearly as I bad health stats yet "sod them" Ardern says.

In between crippling them financially by refusing to have a bubble.
You're just being silly now. You know there's targeted PI services even now.
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6471
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

UncleFB wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:15 am
Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:10 am
guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:02 am I think she's played the race card early... perhaps there's no other alternative.
TBF the separate Authority is a pretty stupid idea.
Weird that you don't like it considering you've always been quite favourable of the Maori Party.

Hopefully if they do run it they it is better implemented than Whanau Ora.
I was favourable of the Maori Party till they got these 2 new idiots. :)

I just don't think it is going to be the magic bullet some people seem to think it is.

eg A lot of the bad health stats can be put down to Maori having 30% smokers compared to 10% Pakeha.

How is some special Maori Authority going to do any better than the standard one? How it going to suddenly get them to stop smoking?

Same with diabetes stats and the numbers of obese Maori to Pakeha etc.

I don't know, maybe they will have some "Special super duper plan", but I can't really see it my self.

Just seems a token gesture to grab the lost Maori votes from the Maori Party.
User avatar
Fat Old Git
Posts: 21823
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: A vacant lot next to a pile of rubble

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

booji boy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:09 am
Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:46 am
guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:31 am
Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:25 am
terangi48 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:16 am 'It cannot be a separate' - Collins says Māori health inequities can be solved without dedicated authority.

Why not? Private Hospitals are......and doctors work in both.
It will be interesting to see how it work. I'm guessing it won't be a straight duplication of basic services but with different focuses, and will instead share core facilities. Something that happens now with DHBS often utilizing private services rather than duplicating the capacity.

It will trigger the usual mob though who will think this is special treatment rather than a potential way of addressing years of inequality and poor outcomes for Maori. Something that will benefit us all if it can be addressed properly.
If you compare to other Commonwealth countries with sizeable indigenous populations governed by almost exclusively white parliaments historically... say Canada and Aus, then providing targetted health policy to those indigenous populations seems so logical as to be a no brainer because of the specific health issues prevalent but also the cultural difficulties surrounding access and provision of service.

Overall you'd think it should be more efficient to split resources like this. I like the emphasis placed on prevention strategies to reduce the load of hospital services. That goes hand in hand with seperating the services for Maori and Pakeha.
If they can get it to work well it could be a good model for providing care to some other disadvantaged groups as well. Groups where there might be a language barrier, or a cultural barrier such as it not being considered respectful to speak up to, question, or disagree with a doctor who may have made some incorrect assumption, or not have the full facts.
Geeze really? We already have a shortage of qualified health professionals. Wait times for appointments are weeks just to see a GP and months for specialists. How are we going to create all these separate services? And we don't have a bottomless pit of money. Healthcare is already hugely expensive.

Getting rid of the DHB's will hopefully save some costs but whether those cost efficiencies will see more money available for frontline staff, equipment, drugs etc we'll have to wait and see.
I'm not suggesting entirely different services or a duplication of heath capacity. And I don't know how the model will work.

We're just conjecturing here that it might be a little similar to how DHB and private providers are managed separately but often share resources. And if it works well that would be a good thing. As working well would mean more prevention, and catching conditions earlier when they are easier the treat and manage.
User avatar
guy smiley
Posts: 34557
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: in transit

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Dark, unless someone quotes you I don't see your posts.

You're pissing into the wind trying to get my attention. I used to try to give you benefit of the doubt but boy

ah say boy

you jus too damned stoopid.
User avatar
UncleFB
Posts: 13794
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:22 am
UncleFB wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:15 am
Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:10 am
guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:02 am I think she's played the race card early... perhaps there's no other alternative.
TBF the separate Authority is a pretty stupid idea.
Weird that you don't like it considering you've always been quite favourable of the Maori Party.

Hopefully if they do run it they it is better implemented than Whanau Ora.
I was favourable of the Maori Party till they got these 2 new idiots. :)

I just don't think it is going to be the magic bullet some people seem to think it is.

eg A lot of the bad health stats can be put down to Maori having 30% smokers compared to 10% Pakeha.

How is some special Maori Authority going to do any better than the standard one? How it going to suddenly get them to stop smoking?

Same with diabetes stats and the numbers of obese Maori to Pakeha etc.

I don't know, maybe they will have some "Special super duper plan", but I can't really see it my self.

Just seems a token gesture to grab the lost Maori votes from the Maori Party.
Seriously dude, there's ample research out there about how targeted minority services have better outcomes than general services.

Why on earth do you think your beloved pre-the current lot Maori Party pushed so hard for Whanau Ora?

Do you think the Maori smoking rate is at 30% and not 50% because of general health services?
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6471
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:25 am Dark, unless someone quotes you I don't see your posts.

You're pissing into the wind trying to get my attention. I used to try to give you benefit of the doubt but boy

ah say boy

you jus too damned stoopid.
I don't really want your attention.

You posts are just so dumb, I can't help commenting on them.
User avatar
Dark
Posts: 6471
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 2:38 am
Location: NZ

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

UncleFB wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:31 am
Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:22 am
UncleFB wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:15 am
Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:10 am
guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:02 am I think she's played the race card early... perhaps there's no other alternative.
TBF the separate Authority is a pretty stupid idea.
Weird that you don't like it considering you've always been quite favourable of the Maori Party.

Hopefully if they do run it they it is better implemented than Whanau Ora.
I was favourable of the Maori Party till they got these 2 new idiots. :)

I just don't think it is going to be the magic bullet some people seem to think it is.

eg A lot of the bad health stats can be put down to Maori having 30% smokers compared to 10% Pakeha.

How is some special Maori Authority going to do any better than the standard one? How it going to suddenly get them to stop smoking?

Same with diabetes stats and the numbers of obese Maori to Pakeha etc.

I don't know, maybe they will have some "Special super duper plan", but I can't really see it my self.

Just seems a token gesture to grab the lost Maori votes from the Maori Party.
Seriously dude, there's ample research out there about how targeted minority services have better outcomes than general services.

Why on earth do you think your beloved pre-the current lot Maori Party pushed so hard for Whanau Ora?

Do you think the Maori smoking rate is at 30% and not 50% because of general health services?
It is at 30% due to the Maori Party working within the standard system.
User avatar
deadduck
Posts: 6256
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Vandean Coast

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by deadduck »

I'm yet to read the details, does anyone know what kind of preferential services I can access if I claim my status as tangata whenua?
Post Reply