NZ Politics Thread

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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

ahhh...

preferential.

Well, you're white so you're sort of well up the ladder of odds already.
jono45
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by jono45 »

deadduck wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:02 am I'm yet to read the details, does anyone know what kind of preferential services I can access if I claim my status as tangata whenua?
If you study to be a Clinical psychologist or a GP you can access lower pass mark thresholds....
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by deadduck »

guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:05 am ahhh...

preferential.

Well, you're white so you're sort of well up the ladder of odds already.
I'm not white, I'm mixed race
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Flockwitt
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Flockwitt »

I’m not white, my freckles make me multi-coloured.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Ted. wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:45 am
Enzedder wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:38 am
booji boy wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:35 am
Enzedder wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:45 am It is - but is it practical (i.e. are the volumes China want too high for us to manage so we may as well send the cows before someone else does)?
The animals were going to be grazed and farmed in China and used as breeding stock not sent straight to the freezing works.
Hence why I used the term dairy cows and not beef - by volumes I mean of processed milk.
Yeah, it's an odd response. Let's not even make them work for the competitive advantage we are needlessly giving away for a few quick bucks.
However, if we don't sell them the cows, someone else definitely will. Should we take the profit while it's going?

The point was made earlier that their stated goal is self-sufficiency in food so eventually we will lose our market - seems like we're turkeys voting to keep thanksgiving.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by jambanja »

jono45 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:06 am
deadduck wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:02 am I'm yet to read the details, does anyone know what kind of preferential services I can access if I claim my status as tangata whenua?
If you study to be a Clinical psychologist or a GP you can access lower pass mark thresholds....
I have heard a lot of discussion around this and it’s not only those you mention but nurses as well, I would really like to hear confirmation around this because tbh it is incredulous should it be happening
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Enzedder wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:41 am
Ted. wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:45 am
Enzedder wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:38 am
booji boy wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:35 am
Enzedder wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:45 am It is - but is it practical (i.e. are the volumes China want too high for us to manage so we may as well send the cows before someone else does)?
The animals were going to be grazed and farmed in China and used as breeding stock not sent straight to the freezing works.
Hence why I used the term dairy cows and not beef - by volumes I mean of processed milk.
Yeah, it's an odd response. Let's not even make them work for the competitive advantage we are needlessly giving away for a few quick bucks.
However, if we don't sell them the cows, someone else definitely will. Should we take the profit while it's going?

The point was made earlier that their stated goal is self-sufficiency in food so eventually we will lose our market - seems like we're turkeys voting to keep thanksgiving.
Pretty much my point Enz. :thumbup:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:53 am
UncleFB wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:31 am
Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:22 am
UncleFB wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:15 am
Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:10 am

TBF the separate Authority is a pretty stupid idea.
Weird that you don't like it considering you've always been quite favourable of the Maori Party.

Hopefully if they do run it they it is better implemented than Whanau Ora.
I was favourable of the Maori Party till they got these 2 new idiots. :)

I just don't think it is going to be the magic bullet some people seem to think it is.

eg A lot of the bad health stats can be put down to Maori having 30% smokers compared to 10% Pakeha.

How is some special Maori Authority going to do any better than the standard one? How it going to suddenly get them to stop smoking?

Same with diabetes stats and the numbers of obese Maori to Pakeha etc.

I don't know, maybe they will have some "Special super duper plan", but I can't really see it my self.

Just seems a token gesture to grab the lost Maori votes from the Maori Party.
Seriously dude, there's ample research out there about how targeted minority services have better outcomes than general services.

Why on earth do you think your beloved pre-the current lot Maori Party pushed so hard for Whanau Ora?

Do you think the Maori smoking rate is at 30% and not 50% because of general health services?
It is at 30% due to the Maori Party working within the standard system.
The whole point of Whanau Ora was not working within the standard system.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Have to say I applaud the Govt for this. Getting rid of the 20 DHB's seems like a no brainer and there has been bipartisan discussion of this over the past few weeks on this thread and it seems we are all in agreement. The MHA is a great concept if it is able to deliver better health outcomes for Maori. Like anything else the proof will be in the pudding with both these policies whether they actually deliver the hoped for benefits to the health system and to Maori health.

I'm optimistic they will. :thumbup:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

UncleFB wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:52 am
Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:53 am
UncleFB wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:31 am
Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:22 am
UncleFB wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:15 am
Weird that you don't like it considering you've always been quite favourable of the Maori Party.

Hopefully if they do run it they it is better implemented than Whanau Ora.
I was favourable of the Maori Party till they got these 2 new idiots. :)

I just don't think it is going to be the magic bullet some people seem to think it is.

eg A lot of the bad health stats can be put down to Maori having 30% smokers compared to 10% Pakeha.

How is some special Maori Authority going to do any better than the standard one? How it going to suddenly get them to stop smoking?

Same with diabetes stats and the numbers of obese Maori to Pakeha etc.

I don't know, maybe they will have some "Special super duper plan", but I can't really see it my self.

Just seems a token gesture to grab the lost Maori votes from the Maori Party.
Seriously dude, there's ample research out there about how targeted minority services have better outcomes than general services.

Why on earth do you think your beloved pre-the current lot Maori Party pushed so hard for Whanau Ora?

Do you think the Maori smoking rate is at 30% and not 50% because of general health services?
It is at 30% due to the Maori Party working within the standard system.
The whole point of Whanau Ora was not working within the standard system.
Yeah, but Whanau Ora as envisioned by the Maori Party and brought in on their behalf by National, and turned into a a success, then underfunded by Labour, is a system based on social issues.

The countries health system is completely different.

I'm sorry, but I just see two groups competing for already stretched specialists, competing for who has to pay what from which budgets as apparently it is going to be co-funded from both systems.

Probably it will end up being different IT systems as it is with DHBs which is half the current problem, as idiots in charge of both will have to have their "legacy system".

Labour are arguing (rightly in my opinion) that everything is being duplicated all over the place, the separate IT systems are a joke and should be centralised, while at the same time arguing there needs to be 2 of the same thing. Well dah. Make up your mind.

It reminds me of their smoke free policy, which was created by the MP and National, which they are riding on the back of and now planning to screw up.

Labour. Smoking is really bad...horrible....We can't have people smoking.........But we want people smoking weed legalised, or decriminalised, as we think it is ok to smoke weed....but remember... not tobacco...thats bad.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Tehui »

deadduck wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:02 am I'm yet to read the details, does anyone know what kind of preferential services I can access if I claim my status as tangata whenua?
Hey Māori fella, before you project your sense of entitlement on us, let me say this:

- your Māori ancestors may have lived in NZ for 500 years before Europeans arrived;

- your Māori ancestors may have had sovereignty and political power usurped from them by a colonial government who viewed them as second class citizens;

- your Māori ancestors may have been killed in the thousands by British soliders during the NZ land wars;

- Your Māori ancestors have had millions of acres of land confiscated off them by the NZ colonial government and given to Pākeha settlers (i.e. Taranaki, Waikato);

- your Māori ancestors may have had their language, culture and customs systematically weakened by successive governments determined to assert their English cultural dominance over all aspects of life in NZ (i.e. Education Act 1877, Tohunga Suppression Act 1907), and

- the descendants of your ancestors may have only been compensated 1-2% of the true value of their land compensated in settlements (i.e Ngāi Tahu).

But that doesn't mean that you can expect to receive a national health care system that's more customised to Māori. Some of us settlers don't like to be unsettled.
Last edited by Tehui on Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

I can't remember where this quote comes from, but it seems appropriate given how some around the country react to any target funding.

"If all you've ever know is privilege, equality feels like repression."
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:58 am I can't remember where this quote comes from, but it seems appropriate given how some around the country react to any target funding.

"If all you've ever know is privilege, equality feels like repression."
With all due respect.

It depends on what the qualification of who is the target.

We are living in a world affected by Covid.

No one group automatically falls into it.

Perhaps you can point out exactly which people are more deserving of the "targeted funding" over other groups of people in the shit.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Ah... I haven’t read the policy document yet but does it tell me where I can sign up for some of that repression?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:06 am Ah... I haven’t read the policy document yet but does it tell me where I can sign up for some of that repression?
I wouldn't bother.

As usual there are no actual details about how it is going to actually work.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

booji boy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:09 am
Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:46 am
guy smiley wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:31 am
Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:25 am
terangi48 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:16 am 'It cannot be a separate' - Collins says Māori health inequities can be solved without dedicated authority.

Why not? Private Hospitals are......and doctors work in both.
It will be interesting to see how it work. I'm guessing it won't be a straight duplication of basic services but with different focuses, and will instead share core facilities. Something that happens now with DHBS often utilizing private services rather than duplicating the capacity.

It will trigger the usual mob though who will think this is special treatment rather than a potential way of addressing years of inequality and poor outcomes for Maori. Something that will benefit us all if it can be addressed properly.
If you compare to other Commonwealth countries with sizeable indigenous populations governed by almost exclusively white parliaments historically... say Canada and Aus, then providing targetted health policy to those indigenous populations seems so logical as to be a no brainer because of the specific health issues prevalent but also the cultural difficulties surrounding access and provision of service.

Overall you'd think it should be more efficient to split resources like this. I like the emphasis placed on prevention strategies to reduce the load of hospital services. That goes hand in hand with seperating the services for Maori and Pakeha.
If they can get it to work well it could be a good model for providing care to some other disadvantaged groups as well. Groups where there might be a language barrier, or a cultural barrier such as it not being considered respectful to speak up to, question, or disagree with a doctor who may have made some incorrect assumption, or not have the full facts.
Geeze really? We already have a shortage of qualified health professionals. Wait times for appointments are weeks just to see a GP and months for specialists. How are we going to create all these separate services? And we don't have a bottomless pit of money. Healthcare is already hugely expensive.

Getting rid of the DHB's will hopefully save some costs but whether those cost efficiencies will see more money available for frontline staff, equipment, drugs etc we'll have to wait and see.
You obviously didn't read the announcement and the posts you have quoted, or simply do not understand them. It is not separate or duplication or stretching of current resources. It is putting the health professionals where they can be of most benefit, where currently the health delivery is unequal, or do you disagree with that approach?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Tehui »

booji boy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:00 am Have to say I applaud the Govt for this. Getting rid of the 20 DHB's seems like a no brainer and there has been bipartisan discussion of this over the past few weeks on this thread and it seems we are all in agreement. The MHA is a great concept if it is able to deliver better health outcomes for Maori. Like anything else the proof will be in the pudding with both these policies whether they actually deliver the hoped for benefits to the health system and to Maori health.

I'm optimistic they will. :thumbup:
I agree with you in that the current health system is vexed. It's a model that's been around for a while, so it's not like the problems are due to early teething problems. Let's see what the changes bring.

As an aside, I find that I'm becoming more in favour of having centralised systems. Decentralisation simply hasn't worked in the education and health sectors. The other system that's in massive need of starting again is the justice system, but for different reasons. That system is absolutely broken.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Ted. wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:58 am You obviously didn't read the announcement and the posts you have quoted, or simply do not understand them. It is not separate or duplication or stretching of current resources. It is putting the health professionals where they can be of most benefit, where currently the health delivery is unequal, or do you disagree with that approach?
I wasn't commenting on the Govts announcements yesterday. I was commenting on FOG's comment that if the MHA proves successful we could use it as a model to help other disadvantaged groups, due to cultural or language barriers.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

"If it proves successful" is the key. And there doesn't seem to be much detail on how it will work yet, so it's still a big if.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Jeff the Bear »

Tehui wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:11 pm
booji boy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:00 am Have to say I applaud the Govt for this. Getting rid of the 20 DHB's seems like a no brainer and there has been bipartisan discussion of this over the past few weeks on this thread and it seems we are all in agreement. The MHA is a great concept if it is able to deliver better health outcomes for Maori. Like anything else the proof will be in the pudding with both these policies whether they actually deliver the hoped for benefits to the health system and to Maori health.

I'm optimistic they will. :thumbup:
I agree with you in that the current health system is vexed. It's a model that's been around for a while, so it's not like the problems are due to early teething problems. Let's see what the changes bring.

As an aside, I find that I'm becoming more in favour of having centralised systems. Decentralisation simply hasn't worked in the education and health sectors. The other system that's in massive need of starting again is the justice system, but for different reasons. That system is absolutely broken.
The problem is the lack of quality people. On paper, decentralisation sounds like a great idea (putting power closer to the problems, so they can be more adaptive and responsive to the specific needs of the area)...but if you've only got a handful of quality people able to handle those roles across the country, but the requirement to fill dozens of the same roles across multiple areas, you are bound to be left with incompetent people occupying spots up and down the system.

Having said that, you can bet your bottom dollar that when this comes in, you'll have people complaining from Awanui to Bluff that the system is 'out of touch' and doesn't understand their specific needs.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Tehui »

Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:09 pm "If it proves successful" is the key. And there doesn't seem to be much detail on how it will work yet, so it's still a big if.
If I put on my evaluator's hat, I would want to see the following points being adequately addressed in the forthcoming restructure to the health system:

- what the vision & principles are for the restructure
- what the indicators of success will be
- what the baseline data tells us
- ensuring there is sufficient lead in time prior to implementation (i'm guessing implementation will need to be phased in stages)
- sufficient training / up-skilling for key people
- adequate IT systems during the transition (this is likely to be where most of the costs will be)
- a developmental evaluation in years 1, 2 & 3 (things will be messy in the first 2 years, but they need to be identified and ironed out)
- an outcomes evaluation in 5-10 years time.

I'm probably missing other key points, but those points are what I have in front of mind. It's a huge f* job for the people in charge. The health sector is heavily unionised and often put staff needs in front of patient / client needs. There's something called COVID-19 floating around the world. The work will be politicised to the nth degree where every little slip up has the potential to be front line news, and politicians (on both sides) will seek to cover their own ass when mistakes get made and throw other people under the bus. Who'd want to lead that job?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by deadduck »

Jeff the Bear wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:15 pm
Tehui wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:11 pm
booji boy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:00 am Have to say I applaud the Govt for this. Getting rid of the 20 DHB's seems like a no brainer and there has been bipartisan discussion of this over the past few weeks on this thread and it seems we are all in agreement. The MHA is a great concept if it is able to deliver better health outcomes for Maori. Like anything else the proof will be in the pudding with both these policies whether they actually deliver the hoped for benefits to the health system and to Maori health.

I'm optimistic they will. :thumbup:
I agree with you in that the current health system is vexed. It's a model that's been around for a while, so it's not like the problems are due to early teething problems. Let's see what the changes bring.

As an aside, I find that I'm becoming more in favour of having centralised systems. Decentralisation simply hasn't worked in the education and health sectors. The other system that's in massive need of starting again is the justice system, but for different reasons. That system is absolutely broken.
The problem is the lack of quality people. On paper, decentralisation sounds like a great idea (putting power closer to the problems, so they can be more adaptive and responsive to the specific needs of the area)...but if you've only got a handful of quality people able to handle those roles across the country, but the requirement to fill dozens of the same roles across multiple areas, you are bound to be left with incompetent people occupying spots up and down the system.

Having said that, you can bet your bottom dollar that when this comes in, you'll have people complaining from Awanui to Bluff that the system is 'out of touch' and doesn't understand their specific needs.
I'll be interested to know how many redundancies will come out of the consolidation or whether all these incompetent people will simply be absorbed into the larger bureaucracy and authorised to spread their incompetence nation wide
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

For what it's worth, my wife has worked in the Health sector for 15 years and everyone at her work applauded the announcement.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:16 am For what it's worth, my wife has worked in the Health sector for 15 years and everyone at her work applauded the announcement.
Way to freak everyone out in the waiting room.

I hope they first checked no one was in there for heart issues.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:18 am
UncleFB wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:52 am
Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:53 am
UncleFB wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:31 am
Dark wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:22 am

I was favourable of the Maori Party till they got these 2 new idiots. :)

I just don't think it is going to be the magic bullet some people seem to think it is.

eg A lot of the bad health stats can be put down to Maori having 30% smokers compared to 10% Pakeha.

How is some special Maori Authority going to do any better than the standard one? How it going to suddenly get them to stop smoking?

Same with diabetes stats and the numbers of obese Maori to Pakeha etc.

I don't know, maybe they will have some "Special super duper plan", but I can't really see it my self.

Just seems a token gesture to grab the lost Maori votes from the Maori Party.
Seriously dude, there's ample research out there about how targeted minority services have better outcomes than general services.

Why on earth do you think your beloved pre-the current lot Maori Party pushed so hard for Whanau Ora?

Do you think the Maori smoking rate is at 30% and not 50% because of general health services?
It is at 30% due to the Maori Party working within the standard system.
The whole point of Whanau Ora was not working within the standard system.
Yeah, but Whanau Ora as envisioned by the Maori Party and brought in on their behalf by National, and turned into a a success, then underfunded by Labour, is a system based on social issues.

The countries health system is completely different.

I'm sorry, but I just see two groups competing for already stretched specialists, competing for who has to pay what from which budgets as apparently it is going to be co-funded from both systems.

Probably it will end up being different IT systems as it is with DHBs which is half the current problem, as idiots in charge of both will have to have their "legacy system".

Labour are arguing (rightly in my opinion) that everything is being duplicated all over the place, the separate IT systems are a joke and should be centralised, while at the same time arguing there needs to be 2 of the same thing. Well dah. Make up your mind.

It reminds me of their smoke free policy, which was created by the MP and National, which they are riding on the back of and now planning to screw up.

Labour. Smoking is really bad...horrible....We can't have people smoking.........But we want people smoking weed legalised, or decriminalised, as we think it is ok to smoke weed....but remember... not tobacco...thats bad.
Your weird love of Whanau Ora and that era of the Maori Party is a sight to behold.

The bold is exactly what Whanau Ora implementation did.

Also thanks for Pakeha-explaining Whanau Ora for me - I actually worked on two successful Whanau Ora applications and one unsuccessful one - the experience of them is why I don't fawn over it as much as others. Interestingly, after reading over a few of the articles about Tariana and her crew complaining I think that the funding allocation split my go some way to addressing the issues I had with the implementation way back then.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

booji boy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:00 am Have to say I applaud the Govt for this. Getting rid of the 20 DHB's seems like a no brainer and there has been bipartisan discussion of this over the past few weeks on this thread and it seems we are all in agreement. The MHA is a great concept if it is able to deliver better health outcomes for Maori. Like anything else the proof will be in the pudding with both these policies whether they actually deliver the hoped for benefits to the health system and to Maori health.

I'm optimistic they will. :thumbup:
That's a heartening response. :thumbup:

I unreservedly withdraw any and all past criticism of you and your chosen political allegiances.
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Ted.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

Next Capital choose the nuclear option in their pay negotiations with Wellington bus drivers by imposing a lockout on said drivers. Good onya cobbers, that'll settle things down.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

Ted. wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:36 am Next Capital choose the nuclear option in their pay negotiations with Wellington bus drivers by imposing a lockout on said drivers. Good onya cobbers, that'll settle things down.
NZ Bus has been nothing but a fucking disaster since they took over the bus routes ... thanks a f**king lot GWRC!
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Ted. wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:36 am Next Capital choose the nuclear option in their pay negotiations with Wellington bus drivers by imposing a lockout on said drivers. Good onya cobbers, that'll settle things down.
I have to a get to both work and a doctors appointment tomorrow and it is a pain in the arse (just from apersonal point of view).

But then maybe they were offered shit, so have to.

Or maybe the unions are just being arseholes.

Don't know and don't really care, as rightfully won't say, but annoying
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Ted. wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:33 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:00 am Have to say I applaud the Govt for this. Getting rid of the 20 DHB's seems like a no brainer and there has been bipartisan discussion of this over the past few weeks on this thread and it seems we are all in agreement. The MHA is a great concept if it is able to deliver better health outcomes for Maori. Like anything else the proof will be in the pudding with both these policies whether they actually deliver the hoped for benefits to the health system and to Maori health.

I'm optimistic they will. :thumbup:
That's a heartening response. :thumbup:

I unreservedly withdraw any and all past criticism of you and your chosen political allegiances.
:lol:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

Wignu wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:48 am
Ted. wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:36 am Next Capital choose the nuclear option in their pay negotiations with Wellington bus drivers by imposing a lockout on said drivers. Good onya cobbers, that'll settle things down.
NZ Bus has been nothing but a fucking disaster since they took over the bus routes ... thanks a f**king lot GWRC!
They are objecting to paying their bus drivers $23.75/ hour, rising to $25.00 after two years. God knows what they are paying the poor sods currently. But, they are paying less than $23.75 per fucking hour to do shift work around some of Wellingtons goat tracks. :?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

booji boy wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:24 am
Ted. wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:33 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:00 am Have to say I applaud the Govt for this. Getting rid of the 20 DHB's seems like a no brainer and there has been bipartisan discussion of this over the past few weeks on this thread and it seems we are all in agreement. The MHA is a great concept if it is able to deliver better health outcomes for Maori. Like anything else the proof will be in the pudding with both these policies whether they actually deliver the hoped for benefits to the health system and to Maori health.

I'm optimistic they will. :thumbup:
That's a heartening response. :thumbup:

I unreservedly withdraw any and all past criticism of you and your chosen political allegiances.
:lol:
I'm big hearted like that. :D
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Wignu
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

Ted. wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:30 pm
Wignu wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:48 am
Ted. wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:36 am Next Capital choose the nuclear option in their pay negotiations with Wellington bus drivers by imposing a lockout on said drivers. Good onya cobbers, that'll settle things down.
NZ Bus has been nothing but a fucking disaster since they took over the bus routes ... thanks a f**king lot GWRC!
They are objecting to paying their bus drivers $23.75/ hour, rising to $25.00 after two years. God knows what they are paying the poor sods currently. But, they are paying less than $23.75 per fucking hour to do shift work around some of Wellingtons goat tracks. :?
That's on split shifts as well. It should be a lesson for government/local authorities on how to take something that worked reasonably well and fvck it to save money!
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Enzedder
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

If they cannot deliver a service (having locked out all of their drivers), is there a way the contract can be cancelled ?

(I suppose they own all the buses so are locked in though)
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Fat Old Git
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Ted. wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:30 pm
Wignu wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:48 am
Ted. wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:36 am Next Capital choose the nuclear option in their pay negotiations with Wellington bus drivers by imposing a lockout on said drivers. Good onya cobbers, that'll settle things down.
NZ Bus has been nothing but a fucking disaster since they took over the bus routes ... thanks a f**king lot GWRC!
They are objecting to paying their bus drivers $23.75/ hour, rising to $25.00 after two years. God knows what they are paying the poor sods currently. But, they are paying less than $23.75 per fucking hour to do shift work around some of Wellingtons goat tracks. :?
There are many people working difficult jobs who would think that is quite good money. Which is a fecking sad reflection on the state of NZ. :(
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deadduck
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by deadduck »

Public transport is a difficult one, as its not very popular and a small increase in fares to cover costs can have disproportionate impact on patronage


Meanwhile, this government has gone full on 1984 with their suggestion of replacing fuel taxes and road user charges with a compulsory GPS tracking system in vehicles
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

deadduck wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:17 pm Public transport is a difficult one, as its not very popular and a small increase in fares to cover costs can have disproportionate impact on patronage


Meanwhile, this government has gone full on 1984 with their suggestion of replacing fuel taxes and road user charges with a compulsory GPS tracking system in vehicles
They're considering it as a possible user charge device... I don't like the idea myself, but the National party are on board with the idea so I guess it'll come in.

Regarding your comment about public transport... it may be unpopular but if it becomes more price attractive as private use becomes more aligned to a user charge model then it becomes more feasible. Mass transit can work but it needs to get a lot smarter in a hurry to work here.
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booji boy
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

deadduck wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:17 pm Public transport is a difficult one, as its not very popular and a small increase in fares to cover costs can have disproportionate impact on patronage


Meanwhile, this government has gone full on 1984 with their suggestion of replacing fuel taxes and road user charges with a compulsory GPS tracking system in vehicles
WTF?

So you pay based on miles clocked up versus fuel purchased? Well that covers the fuel tax but RUCs are based on miles traveled anyway.
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Ted.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

Enzedder wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:07 pm If they cannot deliver a service (having locked out all of their drivers), is there a way the contract can be cancelled ?

(I suppose they own all the buses so are locked in though)
I'm not sure who owns the buses, Enz, perhaps Metlink, a Wellington Regional Council entity. WRC/Metlink has royally f**ked up the restructure of the regions bus services in the last few years. Anyway, I read somewhere that WRC will be fining NZ Bus for lack of service and if it continues for a month, they can tear up the contract.

Apparently, Next Capital, an Aussie company BTW, through their wholly owned subsidiary NZ Bus have been fined by WRC 12,330 times in the 11 months from April 2019 to March 2020 for cancelled or late bus services. In March this year alone, there were 1200 cancelled bus services due to driver shortages.

When Next Capital took over NZ Bus, they sacked the entire workforce then rehired, mainly brand new drivers, on lower pay and worse conditions than the experienced drivers had been on (a slew of crashes and buses stuck up windy streets followed). They then failed to deliver the services they are contracted to provide because of a lack of drivers and have continually struggled to fulfil their obligations, basically failing to do so, largely due to driver shortages.

What's worse, the latest rounds of negotiations involve NZ Bus/Next Capital wanting to reduce the drivers employment conditions and have refused the offer of a driver's pay top-up from Greater WRC. Unbelievable.
Last edited by Ted. on Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ted.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

booji boy wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:32 pm
deadduck wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:17 pm Public transport is a difficult one, as its not very popular and a small increase in fares to cover costs can have disproportionate impact on patronage


Meanwhile, this government has gone full on 1984 with their suggestion of replacing fuel taxes and road user charges with a compulsory GPS tracking system in vehicles
WTF?

So you pay based on miles clocked up versus fuel purchased? Well that covers the fuel tax but RUCs are based on miles traveled anyway.
So what's your problem then?

Nice bit of deflection, BTW, DD. :P

I will say that public transport isn't that difficult if you consider that the Wellington bus service has been excellent and popular up until it was restructured a couple of years ago. Now it is a basket case and should also be a lesson on how private capital, in the absence of slavery, is often very poor at delivering a public good.
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