NZ Politics Thread

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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Muttonbirds wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:04 am
Dark wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:42 amI don't mean to state the obvious, but you do realise the the reason people are forced to have to put in written question is that the govt don't answer any?
Pretty sure this is not even slightly true.
This is not what Vance says after her many decades of experience working with the Clark, Key and Ardern govts.

She never had a bad word to say about Clark's.

Face it. The current govt is the most un-transparent in living memory.

It makes me sad as they have the odd good MP, who must be frustrated as shit having Ardern tell them to lie and divert.

Way to kill those peoples aspirations and hope of simply trying to help their constituents.

It was bad enough when they were made to keep sillent over the Labour parties under age sexual assault thing at the unsupervised orgy of free alcohol and sexual debauchery, and the sexual assaults in the PMs office, without being now able to answer simple questions from journalists.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Muttonbirds »

Dark wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:19 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:04 am
Dark wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:42 amI don't mean to state the obvious, but you do realise the the reason people are forced to have to put in written question is that the govt don't answer any?
Pretty sure this is not even slightly true.
This is not what Vance says after her many decades of experience working with the Clark, Key and Ardern govts.

She never had a bad word to say about Clark's.

Face it. The current govt is the most un-transparent in living memory.

It makes me sad as they have the odd good MP, who must be frustrated as shit having Ardern tell them to lie and divert.

Way to kill those peoples aspirations and hope of simply trying to help their constituents.

It was bad enough when they were made to keep sillent over the Labour parties under age sexual assault thing at the unsupervised orgy of free alcohol and sexual debauchery, and the sexual assaults in the PMs office, without being now able to answer simple questions from journalists.
:lol: You're losing it, son. Down the rabbit hole with you.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Muttonbirds wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:38 am
Dark wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:19 am
Muttonbirds wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:04 am
Dark wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:42 amI don't mean to state the obvious, but you do realise the the reason people are forced to have to put in written question is that the govt don't answer any?
Pretty sure this is not even slightly true.
This is not what Vance says after her many decades of experience working with the Clark, Key and Ardern govts.

She never had a bad word to say about Clark's.

Face it. The current govt is the most un-transparent in living memory.

It makes me sad as they have the odd good MP, who must be frustrated as shit having Ardern tell them to lie and divert.

Way to kill those peoples aspirations and hope of simply trying to help their constituents.

It was bad enough when they were made to keep sillent over the Labour parties under age sexual assault thing at the unsupervised orgy of free alcohol and sexual debauchery, and the sexual assaults in the PMs office, without being now able to answer simple questions from journalists.
:lol: You're losing it, son. Down the rabbit hole with you.
The sad thing is you can't mount a decent argument against her and most other people's efforts to just find out the truth from the secretive current government.

It must be hard trying to keep justifying the almost cultish deception.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Auckman »

Vance is talking kaka though according to these OIA stats released in March.

97% of OIA requests completed within the 21 day timeline in the six months to March 2021.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Auckman wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:26 pm Vance is talking kaka though according to these OIA stats released in March.

97% of OIA requests completed within the 21 day timeline in the six months to March 2021.
Don't put facts up against a National/ACT party smokescreen.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Does Vance have an anti Labour pro National/ACT bias or is she just reporting her experience?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by terangi48 »

Unsure of Andrea's writing bias one way or another. Her topic is of interest to NZ citizens.

The system of responding to written questions as a parliamentary process however to me is a good process. It allows those in opposition to question detail in forthcoming legislation prior to its being put to the vote.....and to raise likely practices by those who work with the law to enact its intent......or in unforseen ways that get around the law.

A question: Do all written questions relating to upcoming legislation have to be answered prior to a vote?
Is there a time limit for questions to be asked?
Is there a limit to the amount of questions asked as there were some pretty frivilous ones asked
in examples given?

If so, the cynic in me also suspects that the number of questions being asked can also be used as a "filibustering" tool to delay the lesilation going to a vote.......and a tool to tie up those proposing change of legislation.

However, I would have been more impressed with Andreas article if she had, as the second article did, give some data about percentage of questions answered........97% written responses in on time sounds pretty good to me.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Eugenius »

Auckman wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:26 pm Vance is talking kaka though according to these OIA stats released in March.

97% of OIA requests completed within the 21 day timeline in the six months to March 2021.

Ouch !!!
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

First Covid shot tomorrow at Noon. 2nd shot booked for early July.

Very efficient booking system - I hope the delivery is as good.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Enzedder wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:28 pm First Covid shot tomorrow at Noon. 2nd shot booked for early July.

Very efficient booking system - I hope the delivery is as good.
:thumbup:

You can join my club for the fully vaccinated.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by jambanja »

Enzedder wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:28 pm First Covid shot tomorrow at Noon. 2nd shot booked for early July.

Very efficient booking system - I hope the delivery is as good.
Got mine yesterday, no problems at all, although every time I walk past the radio at work there's static, not sure what could be causing that
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

:lol: :lol:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Wignu wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:41 pm :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Enzedder wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:28 pm First Covid shot tomorrow at Noon. 2nd shot booked for early July.

Very efficient booking system - I hope the delivery is as good.
My parents have had both theirs without a hitch. My wife on the other hand has had her first jab and received notification that they can't book far enough in advance for her second jab so she needs to book closer to the time. Then she got a message booking her in for her second jab in Rotorua even though we are based in Taupo and she got her first jab here in Taupo. :?

Hopefully she can sort that easily enough but not as smooth an experience as other anecdotes we're hearing.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

That'll be where their contact centre is based and the clerk didn't think hard enough. Should be easily sorted.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

I'm (finally) booked in for my first 5G shot next Tuesday so I'll have at least the first jab before my trip to NZ in a few weeks. So fear not my fellow countrymen, I'll be mostly safe.

The NSW govt have been telling me for a month now that I can get it so good they've finally lived up to their promise.

Still, my mate who lives with a hospital working got booked for his first jab on the day of my second jab and theoretically he should be in the queue ahead of me.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

booji boy wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:44 am
Enzedder wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:28 pm First Covid shot tomorrow at Noon. 2nd shot booked for early July.

Very efficient booking system - I hope the delivery is as good.
My parents have had both theirs without a hitch. My wife on the other hand has had her first jab and received notification that they can't book far enough in advance for her second jab so she needs to book closer to the time. Then she got a message booking her in for her second jab in Rotorua even though we are based in Taupo and she got her first jab here in Taupo. :?

Hopefully she can sort that easily enough but not as smooth an experience as other anecdotes we're hearing.
Turns out it wasn't so smooth afterall. The racing club forgot to tell the DHB that there is racing on tomorrow and the lounge where we have the shots isn't available.

Pity, they could have gotten a good crowd in.

On Monday now.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Enzedder wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:53 am
booji boy wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:44 am
Enzedder wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:28 pm First Covid shot tomorrow at Noon. 2nd shot booked for early July.

Very efficient booking system - I hope the delivery is as good.
My parents have had both theirs without a hitch. My wife on the other hand has had her first jab and received notification that they can't book far enough in advance for her second jab so she needs to book closer to the time. Then she got a message booking her in for her second jab in Rotorua even though we are based in Taupo and she got her first jab here in Taupo. :?

Hopefully she can sort that easily enough but not as smooth an experience as other anecdotes we're hearing.
Turns out it wasn't so smooth afterall. The racing club forgot to tell the DHB that there is racing on tomorrow and the lounge where we have the shots isn't available.

Pity, they could have gotten a good crowd in.

On Monday now.
:lol:

Oh well Monday is not too bad.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

More grossly distorted market and rank self interest damaging NZ Inc.

IIRC, We've discussed log exports previously and I guess we will be talking about the same stupid, severe foot injury inducing shit in ten years time. :?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/125400 ... s-survival
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by True Blue »

Enzedder wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:53 am
booji boy wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:44 am
Enzedder wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:28 pm First Covid shot tomorrow at Noon. 2nd shot booked for early July.

Very efficient booking system - I hope the delivery is as good.
My parents have had both theirs without a hitch. My wife on the other hand has had her first jab and received notification that they can't book far enough in advance for her second jab so she needs to book closer to the time. Then she got a message booking her in for her second jab in Rotorua even though we are based in Taupo and she got her first jab here in Taupo. :?

Hopefully she can sort that easily enough but not as smooth an experience as other anecdotes we're hearing.
Turns out it wasn't so smooth afterall. The racing club forgot to tell the DHB that there is racing on tomorrow and the lounge where we have the shots isn't available.

Pity, they could have gotten a good crowd in.

On Monday now.
:lol:

That's so New Zealand.

(and I meant that in an affectionate way)
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by jambanja »

Ted. wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:46 am More grossly distorted market and rank self interest damaging NZ Inc.

IIRC, We've discussed log exports previously and I guess we will be talking about the same stupid, severe foot injury inducing shit in ten years time. :?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/125400 ... s-survival
This really is becoming a big issue
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

jambanja wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:32 am
Ted. wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:46 am More grossly distorted market and rank self interest damaging NZ Inc.

IIRC, We've discussed log exports previously and I guess we will be talking about the same stupid, severe foot injury inducing shit in ten years time. :?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/125400 ... s-survival
This really is becoming a big issue
Do we go down the same track as countries such as Canada by limiting log exports to certain other countries? Is that even possible given that we sold off our publicly owned forests decades ago, it seems to our detriment.

Is NZ just a Chinese pawn, a minor plaything to help them over a temporary log shortage hump, to be cast aside once their won forests come on stream. It is interesting to note that we will have lost most of our own processing facilities once that happens, to be left scratching around for alternative export markets while the (currently) artificially high log prices tank.

We lack long term vision in this country. It seems our politicians become too easily captive to single interest groups. For example the, the so called "Heavy Engineering Research Association", a lobby group for concrete and steel producers, who want more of their product used and is therefore very happy that wood for construction is becoming unavailable, or that the cost of steel and concrete construction (for smaller projects) is higher than wood (though that is changing fast and wood is helping to inflate the cost of house construction).

Contrast that stance with what we need to do for climate change including carbon sequestration, lowering energy used in construction, etc, wood being a perfect material for that. Wood is also a perfect material for low to medium rise construction in earthquake prone NZ. I can understand why these people are lobbying, I just don't understand how they demand and get attention for their narrow, selfish views and squeal like stuck pigs when the facts are brought to the fore.

Finally, is this more proof, along with the distortions in the existing residential, house construction and electricity markets, that capitalism, as practised in New Zealand, is fundamentally fucked?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

You’ve got a problem when shareholder gains are held to be the only measure of behaviours.

Time for some National Interest legislation, excused on the basis of facing down climate change and enabling some state control of national resources.

You know I’m right, Ted. :thumbup:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by terangi48 »

So.......y'all trading in your petrol/diesel motor for an EV or hybrid?

Even if being helped out with a rebated price, trade in price for motors going out of use will drop noticeably........Nah........not yet!
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

terangi48 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:56 am So.......y'all trading in your petrol/diesel motor for an EV or hybrid?

Even if being helped out with a rebated price, trade in price for motors going out of use will drop noticeably........Nah........not yet!
Look at it the other way… when is the break point you reach when you decide you’re not going to keep paying over $2 for every litre of fuel you use?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Tehui »

Ted. wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:48 am Do we go down the same track as countries such as Canada by limiting log exports to certain other countries? Is that even possible given that we sold off our publicly owned forests decades ago, it seems to our detriment.

Is NZ just a Chinese pawn, a minor plaything to help them over a temporary log shortage hump, to be cast aside once their won forests come on stream. It is interesting to note that we will have lost most of our own processing facilities once that happens, to be left scratching around for alternative export markets while the (currently) artificially high log prices tank.

We lack long term vision in this country. It seems our politicians become too easily captive to single interest groups. For example the, the so called "Heavy Engineering Research Association", a lobby group for concrete and steel producers, who want more of their product used and is therefore very happy that wood for construction is becoming unavailable, or that the cost of steel and concrete construction (for smaller projects) is higher than wood (though that is changing fast and wood is helping to inflate the cost of house construction).

Contrast that stance with what we need to do for climate change including carbon sequestration, lowering energy used in construction, etc, wood being a perfect material for that. Wood is also a perfect material for low to medium rise construction in earthquake prone NZ. I can understand why these people are lobbying, I just don't understand how they demand and get attention for their narrow, selfish views and squeal like stuck pigs when the facts are brought to the fore.

Finally, is this more proof, along with the distortions in the existing residential, house construction and electricity markets, that capitalism, as practised in New Zealand, is fundamentally fucked?
Preach!!
:thumbup:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

It's always been somewhat annoying that we have to pay export prices for our own goods, which often seem to end up costing offshore consumers less than we pay for them here in NZ.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

guy smiley wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:53 am You’ve got a problem when shareholder gains are held to be the only measure of behaviours.

Time for some National Interest legislation, excused on the basis of facing down climate change and enabling some state control of national resources.

You know I’m right, Ted. :thumbup:
Get it done, Smiley.

You might need run for parliament. :nod:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Fantastic

Ardern does more taxing poor people

Because your average person trying their arse off these days to buy a house can afford a 35 grand car.
The 'feebate' - Govt confirms rebates for buyers of electric cars, but petrol car buyers will cop it


Drivers who buy new cars from July 1 will be able to get taxpayer-funded rebates of almost $8700 for a new electric or plug-in hybrid car, and about $3,500 for used cars.

But those who buy petrol vehicles will cop the cost under the Government's plan announced today – from January 2022, buyers of new petrol cars will have to pay a fee of up to $5875 while those buying newly imported used cars face fees of up to $2875.

That fee would be based on emissions – for example, it would add $2,900 to the cost of a new Toyota Hilux, $1230 to a Kia Sportage, and $830 for a Nissan Navara.

It is expected to raise between $125m and $188m in its first year - and the revenue from the fee was expected to fully fund the rebates on electric vehicles.

Petrol cars with lower emissions – such as a Toyota Rav 4 or Suzuki Vitara – would not face fees.

The measures were announced by Transport Minister Michael Wood and Climate Change Minister James Shaw today, and are a rejig of the controversial "feebates" scheme which was scuttled by NZ First last term.

It offers rebates of $8,625 for a new electric car and $5750 for a plug-in hybrid car – but will not be given on cars that cost $80,000 or more. Cars must also have at least a three-star safety rating to be eligible.

Rebates of up to $3,450 will be given to those who buy used electric cars and $2,300 for plug-in hybrids. From January, smaller rebates will also be offered to buyers of other low emission cars.

The rebates will only be given for newly imported new and used electric cars which re registered after July 1, not those already in the New Zealand market.

Fees on higher emitting vehicles will start from January 1, 2022.

with the rebates, Wood said those fees would not apply to cars already in the country, which meant low-income families who relied on cheaper second-hand cars would not face the fee.

The reaction

The AA described the package as "well-balanced and positive," saying it was pleased that safety standards had been included in it.

AA Policy and Research Manager Simon Douglas said the emissions levels used to set the fees for imported petrol and diesel vehicles were pragmatic, and would mean that high-emittting vehicles faced the charge while a good range of lower emitting cars would not.

National Party transport spokesman Michael Woodhouse said his party did agree with financial incentives for people to buy electric vehicles, "but does not agree with financially punishing those who can't."

He said National had supported moves to exempt EVs from fringe benefit tax, extend road
user charge exemptions, allow EV users access to bus lanes and free parking, and provide more funding for development of low-emission technologies.

However, a fee on those who bought petrol cars amounted to a tax, which would punish those for whom an electric vehicle was not a realistic or affordable option.

"The people who benefit will be higher-income earners who now don't have to pay as much for a Tesla. We don't think it's fair to make tradies pay more for a Hilux so wealthy executives can get a discount on their next electric car."

Act leader David Seymour also said the 'feebate' scheme amounted to "taxing the tradies to subsidise Teslas."

Under the scheme, somebody buying a $75,000 Tesla Model 3 EV would get a $8625 discount – although the higher-end Tesla and electric cars which cost more than $80,000 do not qualify for it.

A farmer buying a Toyota Hilux would be stung with a $2,900 fee.

Seymour said it amounted to a new tax on tradies, farmers and others who needed bigger vehicles for which there were limited or no electric vehicle options. He said that would include those with large families.

"The social justice wing of the Green Party should ask why the party is prepared to tax people who drive cheap, reliable cars, just so the well-off environmental wing can buy a Tesla."

He said drivers of petrol cars already effectively subsidised electric car drivers through petrol taxes, the emissions trading system tax, and road user charges.

"Motorists pay 77.3c a litre in petrol taxes, plus an ETS tax of 9c a litre. In Auckland, there's a further 10c regional fuel tax. GST is charged on top, taking total tax to around 99.3c a litre (and 110.8c in Auckland). That means EV owners get a subsidy of at least 99.3c a litre in taxes."

Wood said New Zealand's uptake of electric vehicles was well behind that of most other countries:

"Our monthly registrations of EVs are around half the global average and sales are well below the 50 per cent of monthly sales seen in some European countries."
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

terangi48 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:56 am So.......y'all trading in your petrol/diesel motor for an EV or hybrid?

Even if being helped out with a rebated price, trade in price for motors going out of use will drop noticeably........Nah........not yet!
They're not producing what I need as a work vehicle* yet, at least not for the NZ market. We are however considering an EV for our private vehicle. so the 8k will come in handy as long as prices don't go up to match.

* I want a proper, decent sized, station wagon, but would accept a proper ute with a canopy at a pinch. I hate SUVs, they're useless hunks that don't do anything very well, least of all carrying equipment. And I don't want an SUV with a well side tray, i.e. what passes for a (sport) utility or pick-up these days.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Ford US have an E Maverick in the works...

Image

watch that space.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

For the first time I am actually having trouble pointing this out as I don't think even she is that manipulative, but the CH CH shooting moviesounds a bit dodge.

And the timing could change my mind.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

guy smiley wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:29 am Ford US have an E Maverick in the works...

Image

watch that space.
Awesome. I am sure the people on the living wage will be lining upto buy one with Ardern's rich mates
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Ted. wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:15 am
terangi48 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:56 am So.......y'all trading in your petrol/diesel motor for an EV or hybrid?

Even if being helped out with a rebated price, trade in price for motors going out of use will drop noticeably........Nah........not yet!
They're not producing what I need as a work vehicle* yet, at least not for the NZ market. We are however considering an EV for our private vehicle. so the 8k will come in handy as long as prices don't go up to match.

* I want a proper, decent sized, station wagon, but would accept a proper ute with a canopy at a pinch. I hate SUVs, they're useless hunks that don't do anything very well, least of all carrying equipment. And I don't want an SUV with a well side tray, i.e. what passes for a (sport) utility or pick-up these days.
TBF the new Ford sounds a bit awesome, but again you have to be rich,like Ardern's friends

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/evs/12 ... ctric-f150
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

guy smiley wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:29 am Ford US have an E Maverick in the works...

Image

watch that space.
It looks like it would handle like a bag of arseholes and you need to be 6'13" to load the roof rack, that you needed to install because the tray has dwarfism. :o
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

What is happening here? Have a stumbled on a box, engine and four wheels thread by accident?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

UncleFB wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:47 am What is happening here? Have a stumbled on a box, engine and four wheels thread by accident?
You have stumbled on a Ardern has got so rich, she forgot your average person can't afford an electric car, so tax them a shitload for buying a petrol engine thread
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

Dark wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:53 am
UncleFB wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:47 am What is happening here? Have a stumbled on a box, engine and four wheels thread by accident?
You have stumbled on a Ardern has got so rich, she forgot your average person can't afford an electric car, so tax them a shitload for buying a petrol engine thread
:lol:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

How is her movie going?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by JPNZ »

guy smiley wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:00 am
Look at it the other way… when is the break point you reach when you decide you’re not going to keep paying over $2 for every litre of fuel you use?
I’m sure you realise that in NZ that nearly 90c of that $2 is tax and the majority of that tax is taken by NZTA. With the move to electric cars obviously the tax take reduces.

Same as diesel vehicles it’s certain that electric vehicles in NZ will soon be hit hard with RUC charges to make up the slack. After all the roads won’t fix themselves
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