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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:37 pm 
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deadduck wrote:
Is there evidence it does harm though?
To my knowledge the only person unreasonably affected by this had their sentence reduced when the judge used their discretion and common sense.

It seems like an ideologically driven change, much like the charter schools and the 90 day trial period


It costs more to keep people in prison than out of prison. If that person were in the workforce it’s a double whammy.

Agree it’s more ideology than anything, but there is more justification in this instance than charter schools or 90 days imo.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:38 pm 
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Yeah imagine locking someone up just because they've committed 3 serious, violent offenses? How harsh can you get?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:38 pm 
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jono45 wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
jono45 wrote:
eugenius wrote:

In other news the three strikes law is soon gone .

Good job.

why is this good ?
there is currently a sick fudge going before the courts has beaten a person to the edge of their life , been covicted, then raped and murdered , convicted, now potentially done the same again ,wtf is wrong with locking the sick fudge up forever?


It’s good because there is zero evidence it makes any difference.

:lol:


You think otherwise?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:41 pm 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
deadduck wrote:
Is there evidence it does harm though?
To my knowledge the only person unreasonably affected by this had their sentence reduced when the judge used their discretion and common sense.

It seems like an ideologically driven change, much like the charter schools and the 90 day trial period


It costs more to keep people in prison than out of prison. If that person were in the workforce it’s a double whammy.

Agree it’s more ideology than anything, but there is more justification in this instance than charter schools or 90 days imo.


What about the social cost? How many crimes per year committed by reoffenders do you think we can accept as a society before the cost of keeping them in prison becomes justifiable?
Because the families of the victims of violent crime would no doubt say even one is one too many.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:46 pm 
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deadduck wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
deadduck wrote:
Is there evidence it does harm though?
To my knowledge the only person unreasonably affected by this had their sentence reduced when the judge used their discretion and common sense.

It seems like an ideologically driven change, much like the charter schools and the 90 day trial period


It costs more to keep people in prison than out of prison. If that person were in the workforce it’s a double whammy.

Agree it’s more ideology than anything, but there is more justification in this instance than charter schools or 90 days imo.


What about the social cost? How many crimes per year committed by reoffenders do you think we can accept as a society before the cost of keeping them in prison becomes justifiable?
Because the families of the victims of violent crime would no doubt say even one is one too many.


I don’t see this as a trade off. I haven’t seen a shred of evidence to imply crime goes down as a result of this law. Otherwise I might agree with you. As it is we are stuck with overpopulated prisons and a desperate need for more space and a largely unaffected crime rate.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:02 pm 
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deadduck wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
deadduck wrote:
Is there evidence it does harm though?
To my knowledge the only person unreasonably affected by this had their sentence reduced when the judge used their discretion and common sense.

It seems like an ideologically driven change, much like the charter schools and the 90 day trial period


It costs more to keep people in prison than out of prison. If that person were in the workforce it’s a double whammy.

Agree it’s more ideology than anything, but there is more justification in this instance than charter schools or 90 days imo.


What about the social cost? How many crimes per year committed by reoffenders do you think we can accept as a society before the cost of keeping them in prison becomes justifiable?
Because the families of the victims of violent crime would no doubt say even one is one too many.

i would say one is justifiable, i suppose the charter school hating unionist types would be outraged, money shouldn"t even be part of the equation, take some out of wffs if the purse is empty


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:49 pm 
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Widerbeast
Quote:
I don’t see this as a trade off. I haven’t seen a shred of evidence to imply crime goes down as a result of this law. Otherwise I might agree with you. As it is we are stuck with overpopulated prisons and a desperate need for more space and a largely unaffected crime rate.


Good grief.
It is self evident that when a repeat offender is locked up his criminal activity ceases
As for the cost of keeping violent murderers and rapists locked up?
That is an argument for capital punishment, not an argument for letting monsters loose on the streets.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:49 am 
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Edit: misread your post.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 7:32 am 
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Babywatch. Any day now. :D


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:08 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
Babywatch. Any day now. :D

I misread that as:

Image

Thai guy, you are clearly a massive fan but please refrain from making comparisons between the PM and the woman in the middle :thumbup:.

I'm guessing the lady on the left specialised in shallow water rescues.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:39 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
jono45 wrote:
eugenius wrote:

In other news the three strikes law is soon gone .

Good job.

why is this good ?
there is currently a sick fudge going before the courts has beaten a person to the edge of their life , been covicted, then raped and murdered , convicted, now potentially done the same again ,wtf is wrong with locking the sick fudge up forever?


It’s good because there is zero evidence it makes any difference.


This particular piece of legislative crap paper had its genesis in the good ol' usa , where it props up the highest incarcerated population in the world and underwrites the bottom line of he Corrections Corporation of America , Serco etc etc.
http://www.correctionscorp.com/
Our rates of incarceration have increased dramatically since this was introduced along with major changes to the Bail laws and US style court processes that introduced 'plea bargaining" .

When all this is combined with our grossly outdated [and flawed since day 1] Drug laws then you have a system that turns the young and stupid into Crim School graduates in short order.

I've been pretty unimpressed with the coalition performance so far , but the fascists at head office may just regret rolling Andrew Little , he seems to be on a mission to sort out some of the major garbage introduced by Key/Collins.

Kia kaha Andrew , go hard.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:53 am 
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JB1981 wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Babywatch. Any day now. :D

I misread that as:

Image

Thai guy, you are clearly a massive fan but please refrain from making comparisons between the PM and the woman in the middle :thumbup:.

I'm guessing the lady on the left specialised in shallow water rescues.


That picture led me to look up what Nicole Eggert (Summer Quinn) on the far left is up to now. That reminded me that she was on Charles in Charge with Scott Baio. That led me to discover #ScottBaiotoo.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:58 am 
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Santa wrote:
JB1981 wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Babywatch. Any day now. :D

I misread that as:

Image

Thai guy, you are clearly a massive fan but please refrain from making comparisons between the PM and the woman in the middle :thumbup:.

I'm guessing the lady on the left specialised in shallow water rescues.


That picture led me to look up what Nicole Eggert (Summer Quinn) on the far left is up to now. That reminded me that she was on Charles in Charge with Scott Baio. That led me to discover #ScottBaiotoo.


Image

That's Buddy Lembeck, that is.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:59 am 
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Santa wrote:
JB1981 wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Babywatch. Any day now. :D

I misread that as:

Image

Thai guy, you are clearly a massive fan but please refrain from making comparisons between the PM and the woman in the middle :thumbup:.

I'm guessing the lady on the left specialised in shallow water rescues.


That picture led me to look up what Nicole Eggert (Summer Quinn) on the far left is up to now. That reminded me that she was on Charles in Charge with Scott Baio. That led me to discover #ScottBaiotoo.


Wow. It has been going newcular too

Quote:
Nicole Eggert alleges disease that killed Scott Baio’s unborn child is ‘nonexistent’


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/globalne ... child/amp/


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:02 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Santa wrote:
JB1981 wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Babywatch. Any day now. :D

I misread that as:

Image

Thai guy, you are clearly a massive fan but please refrain from making comparisons between the PM and the woman in the middle :thumbup:.

I'm guessing the lady on the left specialised in shallow water rescues.


That picture led me to look up what Nicole Eggert (Summer Quinn) on the far left is up to now. That reminded me that she was on Charles in Charge with Scott Baio. That led me to discover #ScottBaiotoo.


Image

That's Buddy Lembeck, that is.


It is too. What a career Willie Aames had. Eight is Enough and Charles in Charge. That's like being in Nickelback AND Bush.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:08 am 
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#ScottBaiotoo :shock: I guess he wasn't the sort of new boy you wanted in your neighbourhood.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:09 am 
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JB1981 wrote:
#ScottBaiotoo :shock: I guess he wasn't the sort of new boy you wanted in your neighbourhood.


He was in charge of the wrongs as well as the rights, tbf.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:46 am 
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Don't suppose Winston has popped into Pike River yet while I wasn't watching ?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:56 pm 
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grouch wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
jono45 wrote:
eugenius wrote:

In other news the three strikes law is soon gone .

Good job.

why is this good ?
there is currently a sick fudge going before the courts has beaten a person to the edge of their life , been covicted, then raped and murdered , convicted, now potentially done the same again ,wtf is wrong with locking the sick fudge up forever?


It’s good because there is zero evidence it makes any difference.


This particular piece of legislative crap paper had its genesis in the good ol' usa , where it props up the highest incarcerated population in the world and underwrites the bottom line of he Corrections Corporation of America , Serco etc etc.
http://www.correctionscorp.com/
Our rates of incarceration have increased dramatically since this was introduced along with major changes to the Bail laws and US style court processes that introduced 'plea bargaining" .

When all this is combined with our grossly outdated [and flawed since day 1] Drug laws then you have a system that turns the young and stupid into Crim School graduates in short order.

I've been pretty unimpressed with the coalition performance so far , but the fascists at head office may just regret rolling Andrew Little , he seems to be on a mission to sort out some of the major garbage introduced by Key/Collins.

Kia kaha Andrew , go hard.


Little is a failed union organiser, poor quality ping pong player and a total numpty


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 7:57 pm 
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Good to see that the Amazon site will be blocked to Kiwi users very soon. They don;'t want to collect the GST on purchases from Kiwis. Don't care - Kiwi retailers need to be protected (Trump style) and Amazon can get stuffed.

They have to collect for Oz too but there they are opening a store and website for Oz users.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:50 pm 
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If you really think the only reason people buy online is because it has no 15% GST then you are as dim as those retailers who ignore the fact their business model is 15 years behind the times.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:51 pm 
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deadduck wrote:
If you really think the only reason people buy online is because it has no 15% GST then you are as dim as those retailers who ignore the fact their business model is 15 years behind the times.



Fuck you too


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Your mum


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:09 pm 
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Fuck me but for a man with a degree you are too stupid for comprehension.

They don't want to go thru the hassle of collecting GST or go through the hassle of paying it so they won't be shipping here. It's got nothing to do with where you want to buy your cheap drones. Unless they open a NZ operation, they're gone which is great for NZ business.

Being a Gnats supporter, you like seeing NZ business prosper don't you - or is 'all about me' with you too?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:27 pm 
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deadduck wrote:
If you really think the only reason people buy online is because it has no 15% GST then you are as dim as those retailers who ignore the fact their business model is 15 years behind the times.


Do you agree that the amount of tax large international companies like google and amazon pay in the country where the sale is made/service rendered is in desperate need of fixing?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:31 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
You don’t have Amazon in NZ?


We do, they don’t pay tax.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:55 pm 
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I buy goods overseas all the time from UK and US based sites. No way they are going to collect and pay 15% GST on behalf of Jacinda and her band of merry tax collectors. WTF should they? They are operating in their own tax jurisdiction and meeting their tax obligations there. Why the fudge would they want the admin hassle and compliance costs of collecting and then paying 15% GST to the NZ Govt. Labour trumpeted this as some sort of win because they thought they could get the big players like Amazon to come to the party. But smaller dealerships like the ones I deal with definitely won't. And now even Amazon have given NZ the two fingered salute. Welcome to the real world Jacinda. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Let's also remember goods worth over $400 were already captured by NZ Customs and you pay a lot more than just the 15% GST. They also hit you with Customs Duty so the irony is if Labours policy was successful they'd capture the rats and mice under $400 but goods over $400 would actually work out cheaper. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:08 pm 
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Will today be baby day?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:13 pm 
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Thai guy wrote:
Will today be baby day?


You hoping for a boy or a girl?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:18 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Will today be baby day?


Do you have the bubbly ready?
I don't do bubbly. It's elitist.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:18 pm 
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booji boy wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Will today be baby day?


You hoping for a boy or a girl?
Gender neutral, of course.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Thai guy wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Will today be baby day?


You hoping for a boy or a girl?
Gender neutral, of course.


:P :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:25 pm 
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Thai guy wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Will today be baby day?


You hoping for a boy or a girl?
Gender neutral, of course.


Would imagine so

She also seems like the type who will have a "No toy guns or dolls in the house" policy


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:25 pm 
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booji boy wrote:
I buy goods overseas all the time from UK and US based sites. No way they are going to collect and pay 15% GST on behalf of Jacinda and her band of merry tax collectors. WTF should they? They are operating in their own tax jurisdiction and meeting their tax obligations there. Why the fudge would they want the admin hassle and compliance costs of collecting and then paying 15% GST to the NZ Govt. Labour trumpeted this as some sort of win because they thought they could get the big players like Amazon to come to the party. But smaller dealerships like the ones I deal with definitely won't. And now even Amazon have given NZ the two fingered salute. Welcome to the real world Jacinda. :lol:


Don’t let your anti-labour bias blind you. National will want to tax these companies as much as labour and its considered an international problem. You’d be hard pressed to find any political party anywhere supporting it (outside of where company recognised its revenue). It’s tax avoidance of the worst kind. Are you seriously advocating for that?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:23 pm 
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Enzedder wrote:
Good to see that the Amazon site will be blocked to Kiwi users very soon. They don;'t want to collect the GST on purchases from Kiwis. Don't care - Kiwi retailers need to be protected (Trump style) and Amazon can get stuffed.

They have to collect for Oz too but there they are opening a store and website for Oz users.


Ha. What rot. If Kiwi retailers weren't massively overcharging for stuff - including Kiwi online retailers - then overseas purchases wouldn't be a thing.

This will do Kiwi retailers more harm in the long run. As soon as Amazon open a branch here, they're f**ked.

I don't agree with deadduck on much, but when goods can be purchased for half the price (even with the GST added on) from overseas, there's something wrong. The problem with the NZ retail sector is the lack of competition. This is too small a market to have dozens of players in the same space, so the consumer gets rorted. And the people lose out the most are at the poorer end. The well-to-do will just pick up the cheaper goods on their next overseas jaunt or use the mail-proxy service that NZ Post (and others) already offer.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:43 pm 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
deadduck wrote:
If you really think the only reason people buy online is because it has no 15% GST then you are as dim as those retailers who ignore the fact their business model is 15 years behind the times.


Do you agree that the amount of tax large international companies like google and amazon pay in the country where the sale is made/service rendered is in desperate need of fixing?


Yes and that is its own issue.

Going after those players by forcing them out of the NZ market to the detriment of consumer freedom is something I would oppose. Especially if they are the likes of Amazon, Google or Apple where there is no local alternative available.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:04 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
booji boy wrote:
I buy goods overseas all the time from UK and US based sites. No way they are going to collect and pay 15% GST on behalf of Jacinda and her band of merry tax collectors. WTF should they? They are operating in their own tax jurisdiction and meeting their tax obligations there. Why the fudge would they want the admin hassle and compliance costs of collecting and then paying 15% GST to the NZ Govt. Labour trumpeted this as some sort of win because they thought they could get the big players like Amazon to come to the party. But smaller dealerships like the ones I deal with definitely won't. And now even Amazon have given NZ the two fingered salute. Welcome to the real world Jacinda. :lol:


Don’t let your anti-labour bias blind you. National will want to tax these companies as much as labour and its considered an international problem. You’d be hard pressed to find any political party anywhere supporting it (outside of where company recognised its revenue). It’s tax avoidance of the worst kind. Are you seriously advocating for that?


No I'm not advocating tax avoidance by big corporations like Amazon. What I am getting at is that the relatively small online retail chains based in other tax jurisdictions like the US and UK are not going to collect and charge 15% GST on behalf of the NZ Govt and then return the money to NZ and why should they? They are meeting their tax obligations in their countries and are under no obligation whatsoever to comply with NZ tax laws. It's up to our Govt to levy the GST on goods imported into NZ. Successive NZ Govts have deemed collecting GST on imported goods under $400 too hard and uneconomic so now they are expecting overseas retailers in different tax jurisdictions to do the job for them? Good luck with that. It's all a crock anyway as deadduck has tried to point out. I often pay GST and customs duty on goods over $400 but it's still a lot cheaper than buying from NZ retailers. I often land goods for say $700 including GST and Customs charges that I would otherwise be paying $1,200 for in NZ. It's a no brainer and the GST is a non issue.

Labour is trying to spin it like it will help NZ retailers but it won't.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:14 am 
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Gordon Bennett wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Good to see that the Amazon site will be blocked to Kiwi users very soon. They don;'t want to collect the GST on purchases from Kiwis. Don't care - Kiwi retailers need to be protected (Trump style) and Amazon can get stuffed.

They have to collect for Oz too but there they are opening a store and website for Oz users.


Ha. What rot. If Kiwi retailers weren't massively overcharging for stuff - including Kiwi online retailers - then overseas purchases wouldn't be a thing.

This will do Kiwi retailers more harm in the long run. As soon as Amazon open a branch here, they're f**ked.

I don't agree with deadduck on much, but when goods can be purchased for half the price (even with the GST added on) from overseas, there's something wrong. The problem with the NZ retail sector is the lack of competition. This is too small a market to have dozens of players in the same space, so the consumer gets rorted. And the people lose out the most are at the poorer end. The well-to-do will just pick up the cheaper goods on their next overseas jaunt or use the mail-proxy service that NZ Post (and others) already offer.


I don't blame NZ retailers. They are the meat in the sandwich. Goods shipped into NZ are massively overpriced by the manufacturers and distributors. The poor old retailers are just trying to make a buck on already over priced goods. I've spoken with local retailers and the prices I'm able to get direct from overseas online sellers are less than they have to pay to ship the goods through the licensed distributors. It's a rort alright but the retailers are not to blame.

Who can ever forget those two clowns from Adidas trying to explain why you can buy an All Black jersey in the US for about half the price it costs in NZ. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:25 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Good to see that the Amazon site will be blocked to Kiwi users very soon. They don;'t want to collect the GST on purchases from Kiwis. Don't care - Kiwi retailers need to be protected (Trump style) and Amazon can get stuffed.

They have to collect for Oz too but there they are opening a store and website for Oz users.


Ha. What rot. If Kiwi retailers weren't massively overcharging for stuff - including Kiwi online retailers - then overseas purchases wouldn't be a thing.

This will do Kiwi retailers more harm in the long run. As soon as Amazon open a branch here, they're f**ked.

I don't agree with deadduck on much, but when goods can be purchased for half the price (even with the GST added on) from overseas, there's something wrong. The problem with the NZ retail sector is the lack of competition. This is too small a market to have dozens of players in the same space, so the consumer gets rorted. And the people lose out the most are at the poorer end. The well-to-do will just pick up the cheaper goods on their next overseas jaunt or use the mail-proxy service that NZ Post (and others) already offer.


I don't blame NZ retailers. They are the meat in the sandwich. Goods shipped into NZ are massively overpriced by the manufacturers and distributors. The poor old retailers are just trying to make a buck on already over priced goods. I've spoken with local retailers and the prices I'm able to get direct from overseas online sellers are less than they have to pay to ship the goods through the licensed distributors. It's a rort alright but the retailers are not to blame.

Who can ever forget those two clowns from Adidas trying to explain why you can buy an All Black jersey in the US for about half the price it costs in NZ. :lol:


There are definitely retailers in the space that you mention, but there are also plenty of retailers out there who push the margins beyond where they need to be - I've had to work with some in the past. The internet trading age has come as quite a shock to them. At the end of the day, regardless, the consumer is the one that suffers - and I don't understand why enzedder would be delighted with that outcome.


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