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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:57 am 
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Man In Black wrote:
Journalism in NZ is pretty atrocious, and I used to be one of them. I don't think there's any way it can be improved either.


We get what we deserve to some extent. The PM's baby has been a classic example. It's a great opportunity with stories on societies changing attitudes. To show case how having a baby in office, or in any other career, shouldn't be a big deal. But instead all segments of the media seemed to become one giant trashy women's magazine and the story became about the baby, and not about the fact that the PM was able to have one. And lots of people lapped it up.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:11 am 
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Colour me a little surprised... a decent article posing the question, or questions;

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12099811

Quote:
Here we go again. Jacinda's back and the economy, says John Key, is about to tank.

Well, he didn't exactly say tank. But he's not the only one with the warnings. Blame China, blame Trump, blame who and whatever you like, a global slowdown is on the way and already here we've got a collapse in business confidence. The second lowest in the OECD, as National's finance spokeswoman Amy Adams has reminded us.

You think dealing with the peccadilloes of Winston Peters is the newly reinstated prime minister's biggest worry? If only.

This goes deep. In Britain, they are experiencing the longest period of declining real incomes since records began, at the start of the 19th century.

In the United States, real incomes for ordinary workers are the same as they were nearly 50 years ago, in 1971. That's not true of corporate profits, of course, which have been unprecedented.

It's true the world's poor are better off: 137,000 people have been lifted out of extreme poverty every day for the last 25 years, says the Cato Institute.

But there's been a direct consequence for the people America calls the lower middle class. They've become poor, and desperate, and angry.

The wonder of Trump is not that he happened, but that he didn't happen sooner. And in New Zealand we are not immune.

We have had a social contract and it says this: if you work you will do okay. If you can't work you'll be looked after – and we pay taxes for that. If you do work, you might not get rich but you will not have to live in poverty. You will be able to base your sense of who you are on self-respect.

That social contract has been badly damaged, which is why we have Working for Families.

Commentators still whinge about "communism by stealth" but the reality is starkly different: even if you work, now, you can still be blighted by poverty.

Even if you work at a supposedly good job, like nursing or teaching, you can still be falling behind.

It's not because poor people don't work hard. Data from Statistics NZ shows that the lower your hourly rate of pay, the longer you are likely to be working.

It also shows that while minimum wage rises have helped the bottom 10 per cent of wage and salary earners, for the next 50 per cent wages have risen at only half the rate of those in the top 10 per cent. They have, in real terms, stagnated.

Council of Trade Unions (CTU) economist Bill Rosenberg calls it a "hollowing out of the wage scale". Inequality is growing and the people taking the biggest hit are those in the middle and the lower middle. Mostly, that includes self-employed people.

It's worse for non-working beneficiaries. We don't have a DPB (Domestic Purposes Benefit) any more, but there is an equivalent payment package in the benefit system.

Rosenberg has calculated that even if we raised that payment by 25 per cent, it would still be no higher, in relation to the average wage, than the level it was cut to in 1991. For the single unemployed and invalids, benefits would need to rise by even more.

We forget or perhaps we never knew just what damage we did. Despite all their rhetoric, neither the last National Government nor Labour before them ever made good on the attacks on the poorest people in our society in 1991.

When National's finance minister Ruth Richardson set about with her axe and sickle in 1991, she called it the mother of all Budgets. In every sense, how true that was.

There have been consequences. At the personal level, depression, anxiety, loneliness, suicide, all sharply on the rise. People feel marginalised, ignored, insulted. Anger on social media and, increasingly, behind the wheel of a car, are markers of something much bigger.

There is rage in the world. Rage in this country too. The big task for Jacinda Ardern and her Government is to set us on a path where hope subsumes the rage.

Because there is also tremendous hope. And the people who voted for this Government expect to see it made manifest.

There's no one way to do it. But it's not about adjusting the levers and twiddling the settings, as economists love to say. It needs to be comprehensive and structural and it needs flagship policies that everyone can understand.

Here's one: make teaching a prestigious profession.

Who doesn't support that? Make teaching a job that the best and brightest school students with an ounce of public service in them will queue up to do. Maybe not for life, but for an excellent first 10 years of their career.

How would we achieve that? Start with pay rises, steep enough to reposition – to recategorise – the job among the higher-paid professions. Far steeper than is being proposed now.

In schools, add enough support services to allow teachers to focus on what we want from them. Don't reduce the pastoral care because that's become an essential component of good teaching practice.

Slash the paperwork. Slash the class sizes too. With both those things, give teachers more contact hours with their students, not just in the classroom but in extra-curricular life and in family and community engagement.

If you think that's all too much, think about this. The average age of teachers is 57.5 years. The number of would-be teachers who finish their training fell from 1200 in 2009 to only 775 in 2015. The proportion of new teachers who leave within five years is 50 per cent.

Years of neglect and our schools are now in crisis. Twiddling the settings is not an option.

Is this Government going to do it? Because if not, National will. Smaller class sizes are a promise and so is the expansion of partnership schools.

Education spokeswoman Nikki Kaye is coordinating a complete overhaul of the party's education policies, focusing on teacher quality, the future of work, schools governance and special needs.

Does anyone think that she, as education minister in a National-led government, would not introduce sweeping reforms?

Also, while we're fixing it for schools and for teachers, we need to do the same for nurses.

Comprehensive care. At the very deepest end of the housing crisis, where agencies help rough sleepers into a home, there is an answer that works. It's called Housing First.

It's an American programmatic approach that says the first thing you do with people in dire need is give them somewhere warm, dry and safe to live, and the next thing you do is wrap whatever services they need around them, so they can stay there.

Labour, the Greens and National all support Housing First, and in various guises it's becoming established around New Zealand. It does work.

So what's next? What about Children First? A programmatic approach that says we identify what children need, from conception, make sure they have somewhere to live where they are warm, dry, safe and preferably loved, and wrap the services around them that will allow them to prosper ... through pre-school and school and into tertiary education or work, and especially if they are abused at home, if they have mental health issues, if they get in trouble with the law.

Does it sound too hard, put like that? Is it really so different from what we as a society thought we were doing in the days of milk in schools and the universal family benefit paid directly to mothers? We know now that for a great many children, we weren't doing it. But we could.

The biggest debate in and around the Government right now is over the Budget Responsibility Rules (BRR). This was a commitment made by Labour and the Greens before the election, to hold core crown debt to 20 per cent of GDP and core crown spending to 30 per cent of GDP.

Finance minister Grant Robertson says the BRR are an essential rainy day policy, in a country where we really do get floods. And biosecurity hazards, and earthquakes, and trading disasters too.

Critics on the left say the BRR are drowning the Government in a neoliberal swamp of its own making. Many economists agree; ratings agency Standard and Poor's says it could easily borrow an extra $35 billion dollars.

You can buy a lot of poverty alleviation, transport infrastructure and teacher salaries with $35 billion.

But Robertson has held firm. He's supported by the National Party, although they have to say that. In truth, they'd be thrilled if he dropped the BRR.

National leader Simon Bridges told his party's conference last weekend Labour is "fiscally irresponsible", has "no ideas" except "borrow and spend" and that spending is "out of control". But with BRR in place, that's demonstrably not true.

If the Government drops BRR, National will double down. You see, they will say endlessly, Labour really is fiscally irresponsible and it can't be trusted. If it can't keep its biggest promise, what hope for the rest?

Would that matter? If the Government can introduce policies big enough to make a difference, make structural reforms that lift whole communities out of poverty and reposition endangered professions like teaching, what would the damage of modifying the BRR really be?

Or can it do those things and keep the BRR?

The answer is that the status of the BRR shouldn't come first. If Labour can articulate a big programme for change, the fate of the BRR can be settled as a consequence.

And here's a thing: the BRR require the debt target (20 per cent of GDP) to be met "within five years of taking office". It's at 20.1 per cent now. They're there four years early.

So the Government has wriggle room. If it gets buy-in on the plan it will get buy-in on the means to get there. It's about making decisions the right way round.

Next up, the problem of leading a long-term coalition. The peccadilloes of Winston Peters actually are a thing.

Keeping it together week by week is the easy part. The far harder task is to deliver a functioning Government to voters at the next election, in such a way that each of the three parties is popular enough to be returned to Parliament.

It's the hardest task in New Zealand politics because the truth about MMP is that it kills minor parties. They disappear altogether or, like Act, they leave a dead man walking.

It was clear at the National conference that its strategy to win is not based on building up its own support partners, but relies on Labour's partners failing.

So how do they avoid that? By all three ensuring the Greens and NZ First can build their own profiles, their own strengths, gaining votes without destroying the integrity of the Government in the process.

What does it mean to be a centre-left government? These ideas are no more than indicative. There's so much more to do and so much uncertainty about how to do it.

Three decades on since Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, the rise of what we now call neoliberalism and the collapse of the Berlin Wall, social democracy is still in crisis.

In 2008 we discovered the financial institutions that had wilfully wrecked the global economy were "too big to fail", and that was a shock. Worse, after they were bailed out, no important people went to jail, their profits quickly jumped back to record levels and the incomes of almost everyone but the wealthiest continued to be hollowed out.

Then we got Trump. The blustering, bullying reactionary right is on the rise and the left has been found wanting, here as everywhere else. Pilloried as part of a "liberal elite". Fractured by debates over identity politics and undermined by attacks on "political correctness". Basic union concepts around access to workplaces, wages and conditions decried as "a return to the 1970s". Climate change years late even to become part of the mainstream agenda.

Being New Zealand is a bit like being shut up in a little cottage while an ogre roams the forest, tearing up the trees, roaring its rage.

Trump's not the ogre. He's riding it, along with the oligarchs of fossil fuels and finance, their comfortable calfskin saddles strapped high on the ogre's back.

The good news is that if anyone, huddled in any of the cottages in the forest, has the potential to calm that ogre down, it's us.

It's always been us. The little cottage that could.


I don't like that very last part but what the hell, you have to sell an idea.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:01 am 
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Man In Black wrote:
Tehui wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Journalism in NZ is pretty atrocious, and I used to be one of them. I don't think there's any way it can be improved either.


Do many of you go 'off line' for periods without reading, watching or listening to any news?


I don't understand the question. Do journalists in NZ go off line or do I personally go off line?


You personally. And anyone else here.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:06 am 
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We've got a family batch in Hokio beach with no Sky or internet coverage and we tend not to watch the news when we're out there, so I'll do a fair few weekends (and possibly longer during school holidays) essentially offline.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:09 am 
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Don't see too many articles of that quality in NZ^^^

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion- ... .105970373

“What I intend to do is, within a month at least, bring together some of the work we’ve been doing in earnest around working together with the business community, to make sure we that we are tackling some of the challenges that we’re facing collectively”.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:58 am 
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Kahu wrote:
Don't see too many articles of that quality in NZ^^^

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion- ... .105970373

“What I intend to do is, within a month at least, bring together some of the work we’ve been doing in earnest around working together with the business community, to make sure we that we are tackling some of the challenges that we’re facing collectively”.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:08 am 
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eugenius wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
UncleFB wrote:

Uh oh, now SeN will call me an idiot again for not agreeing with their world view - although I agree with him on NZ media. Back in my early days on here (circa 2007ish) when I was working at Massey I used to mention how I'd have to occasionally spend time in the media school area of the College of Business and the standard of student wasn't great.


Southern's a 23 year old girl having a blast. I equate her to young women like Erica Jong or Germaine Greer in the 60s. What she says is pretty frothy stuff. But her mannerisms and self-confidence are epic. That's her talent.

I find Molyneux to be quirky and sort of undisciplined in his thinking, if intelligent.

Neither of them are the real thick meat stuff of the true alt/dissident right, where there are some real heavyweights operating. That's the engine room of this broarder reactionary movement.





You are trying to compare her with Greer ?

Are you quite that stupid or just pretending ?



Tbf if you have listened to Greer on modern feminism lately, her and Southern's opinions of it are pretty much aligned


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:44 pm 
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Thousands of NZers who'd never heard of these hithertoo obscure internet slebs are now surfing their youtube videos and discussing their thoughts with their neighbours around the (winter) BBQ. Molyneux's 'Race Realism for Dummies' videos will be hits in a certain demographic across the country.


Honestly are you that out of touch ?

Few remotely give a fudge.


Last edited by eugenius on Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:49 pm 
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12099811

Pretty much what I think.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:33 pm 
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Southern and the other guy don't seem that smart, and Patrick Gower isn't smart. I find that interview to be an unwatchable train wreck. I'd rather see Douglas Murray come and have the conversation.

The fact that we are shutting people up from speaking is utterly terrifying however.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:02 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
UncleFB wrote:

Uh oh, now SeN will call me an idiot again for not agreeing with their world view - although I agree with him on NZ media. Back in my early days on here (circa 2007ish) when I was working at Massey I used to mention how I'd have to occasionally spend time in the media school area of the College of Business and the standard of student wasn't great.


Southern's a 23 year old girl having a blast. I equate her to young women like Erica Jong or Germaine Greer in the 60s. What she says is pretty frothy stuff. But her mannerisms and self-confidence are epic. That's her talent.

I find Molyneux to be quirky and sort of undisciplined in his thinking, if intelligent.

Neither of them are the real thick meat stuff of the true alt/dissident right, where there are some real heavyweights operating. That's the engine room of this broarder reactionary movement.

Her walk on the streets of Melbourne was cringe inducing ... it felt like something produced by someone who was anti her not one of her own productions. I think she thought she was being funny, but, nope.

Her and Molyneaux's latest video about how they have been denied free speech in NZ, nope again, is whiny as fuck.

Who are these heavy weights in this "reactionary movement" world you inhabit - please tell me they have stuff I can read and aren't Youtubers?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:21 am 
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J Man wrote:
Southern and the other guy don't seem that smart, and Patrick Gower isn't smart. I find that interview to be an unwatchable train wreck. I'd rather see Douglas Murray come and have the conversation.

The fact that we are shutting people up from speaking is utterly terrifying however.

We didn't. The fact you watched that clip and you can access all their videos is evidence of that. Freedom of Speech doesn't guarantee you your preferred platform to exercise it (and make money off it).


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:54 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
J Man wrote:
Southern and the other guy don't seem that smart, and Patrick Gower isn't smart. I find that interview to be an unwatchable train wreck. I'd rather see Douglas Murray come and have the conversation.

The fact that we are shutting people up from speaking is utterly terrifying however.

We didn't. The fact you watched that clip and you can access all their videos is evidence of that. Freedom of Speech doesn't guarantee you your preferred platform to exercise it (and make money off it).


Well yes we did or the venue wouldn't have shat itself a few hours before play and backed out.

As for making money Gore makes 6 figures, flies first class free and gets put up in 5 star hotels every time he spends an hour talking about climate change.

Do you have a a problem with that?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:47 am 
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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:22 am 
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Wait, NZ is not a multicultural country? That’s news to me :?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:29 am 
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It's not on the same level as Toronto & Vancouver, to be fair - even Auckland, which would be the most ethnically diverse place in NZ.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:30 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Wait, NZ is not a multicultural country? That’s news to me :?

Apropos of nothing I had to do a double-take stumbling across the actual figures this evening: over 1/4 of the current population of New Zealand was not born here. Can't be many countries with that ratio in this day and age...


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:30 am 
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Radical totalitarian leftists have a complete lock on public discourse in NZ
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:47 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
It’s still not very mutli-cultural though. You have one dominant culture that migrants largely sign up to when they arrive (which is a very good thing and will hopefully stay that way). Having lots of different skin colours doesn’t necessarily mean a place is multi-cultural.


What Southern is arguing is that effectively no where actually is. You have ghettoisation, or open conflict, but no such thing as multiculturalism. It doesn't exist. So if it's impossible, why go about creating this trouble for the future?


Australia is a good example of a false claim for multiculturalism and yet, immigration has built the country into what it is now. A decent blend of cultural inputs into a monoculture with a reasonable exchange ongoing between the component parts. So it can and does work and work well. There is no reason to think it wouldn't likewise work in NZ.

Where it seems to be struggling to work is in those secluded parts of the world that have enjoyed monoculturalism for centuries. The backwaters that have failed to keep up with a changing world.

That part of the world you live in, Sen. The Old World.

Last year's model.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:47 am 
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Man In Black wrote:
It’s still not very mutli-cultural though. You have one dominant culture that migrants largely sign up to when they arrive (which is a very good thing and will hopefully stay that way). Having lots of different skin colours doesn’t necessarily mean a place is multi-cultural.

Parts of Christchurch are now exceptionally multicultural in terms of diversity. But it is that dilution of different immigrants that makes your point, and agree it's a good one. And there is definitely a significant degree of true multiculturalism. Plenty of activities, clubs and whatnot that are specificly ethnic.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:55 am 
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New Zealand is not bicultural. It is not limited to pakeha and Maori. I think our substantial pasifika population would have something to say about that. Saying other countries are more multicultural has little to do with it.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:

A very typical sign that we see across New Zealand every day without blinking. Do you see Samoan language there? Mandarin? Parsi? We are not even aware of just how biculturalism has been officially advanced since the late 80s.


That was exactly the example I was thinking of using earlier... very few countries would see two official languages on public buildings and the like ( I know it's not unique) and I noticed it after staying away from home for 11 years prior to returning in the early 2000s. I was amazed at the changes wrought in only a decade. It is phenomenal...

and a shining testament for openness and inclusion :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:13 pm 
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The Muslims are winning the war without even having to fight it. I'll be looking to convert and nab myself several wives. You can't fight the tide Sen


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Dark wrote:

Well yes we did or the venue wouldn't have shat itself a few hours before play and backed out.

As for making money Gore makes 6 figures, flies first class free and gets put up in 5 star hotels every time he spends an hour talking about climate change.

Do you have a a problem with that?

:roll: Who said I had a problem Southern and Molyneaux making money?

Anyway, it's still not a yes, they could have spoke if they could have found a venue to host them. They could have spoken round at your place. Furthermore, they've had other platforms to exercise their freedom of speech while in (and out) of NZ and despite the whining from you and SeN the fact they couldn't get a venue off the ground has not barred them from dispersing their ideas in NZ.

At any rate, I wish they'd found a venue, then we'd have few pages less whining on here. They should have asked Destiny Church if they could hire their hall, they're used to being to being the bad guy so wouldn't have backed down to a few lefties whining at them.

Seneca of the Night wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:

Southern's a 23 year old girl having a blast. I equate her to young women like Erica Jong or Germaine Greer in the 60s. What she says is pretty frothy stuff. But her mannerisms and self-confidence are epic. That's her talent.

I find Molyneux to be quirky and sort of undisciplined in his thinking, if intelligent.

Neither of them are the real thick meat stuff of the true alt/dissident right, where there are some real heavyweights operating. That's the engine room of this broarder reactionary movement.

Her walk on the streets of Melbourne was cringe inducing ... it felt like something produced by someone who was anti her not one of her own productions. I think she thought she was being funny, but, nope.

Her and Molyneaux's latest video about how they have been denied free speech in NZ, nope again, is whiny as fuck.

Who are these heavy weights in this "reactionary movement" world you inhabit - please tell me they have stuff I can read and aren't Youtubers?


Jesus you're a dope. It's remarkable how clueless you are given that you're meant to have an advanced education in topics not completely unadjacent to this stuff.

:lol: I do enjoy when you go all pompous and superior on me - I actually asked you for some of these heavy weights in comparison to Southern so I can have a read and rather than provide me with their details you go straight to the abuse.

You and I seem to he stuck in pattern with Southern, you say something slightly negative about her (like the frothy comment above) I reply basically agreeing with you and then expand on it - then you have a hissy fit at me.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:36 pm 
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I think we'll be ok. We tend to attract Islamic moderates from Fiji who within 3 generations are as kiwi as Eskimo pie. If they want to believe in Allah good for them it's their choice but the kiwi feral underclass is far too big and strong to allow the small feminist class that has developed over the past 30 years to destroy our Western way of life and allow the Islamic patriarchy to take control.

I can't remember if it was in one of those freakonomics books but I remember reading something where the author predicted the USA to annex Mexico and then then Spanish would become the predominant language of the Southwest and eventually California, Texas, Arizona, Mexico would form its own country. That I do believe.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:41 am 
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Man In Black wrote:
It seems Don Brash has been refused a speaking engagement by Massey Uni after threats of violence from far left activists. Not a good road to go down NZ :thumbdown:


The Hecklers Veto in full effect. It's the left's latest weapon. I wonder if the continued use of the Heckler's Veto will prompt a fundamental rethink of freedom of speech laws, which are typically oriented towards limiting government action. I wonder of there will be a shift to try to cover off activities by private citizens as well.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:44 am 
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Santa wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
It seems Don Brash has been refused a speaking engagement by Massey Uni after threats of violence from far left activists. Not a good road to go down NZ :thumbdown:


The Hecklers Veto in full effect. It's the left's latest weapon. I wonder if the continued use of the Heckler's Veto will prompt a fundamental rethink of freedom of speech laws, which are typically oriented towards limiting government action. I wonder of there will be a shift to try to cover off activities by private citizens as well.



The difficulty in this is that the people who'd be keenest on implementing anything like that have a large crossover with those who support the free market. And whatever else it may be, establishments like the Powerstation dropping the Canadians or Twitter/FB banning people like Jones is actually market forces at work.

I'm not saying it'd stop them doing it, hypocrisy is everywhere of course, but it may give them a moments pause.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:50 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Santa wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
It seems Don Brash has been refused a speaking engagement by Massey Uni after threats of violence from far left activists. Not a good road to go down NZ :thumbdown:


The Hecklers Veto in full effect. It's the left's latest weapon. I wonder if the continued use of the Heckler's Veto will prompt a fundamental rethink of freedom of speech laws, which are typically oriented towards limiting government action. I wonder of there will be a shift to try to cover off activities by private citizens as well.



The difficulty in this is that the people who'd be keenest on implementing anything like that have a large crossover with those who support the free market. And whatever else it may be, establishments like the Powerstation dropping the Canadians or Twitter/FB banning people like Jones is actually market forces at work.

I'm not saying it'd stop them doing it, hypocrisy is everywhere of course, but it may give them a moments pause.


It would be a difficult thing to implement I agree. I'm just thinking that people are going to start getting very f**ked off with this sort of thing, and if there's a reaction it might be less measured than one might hope. People are being severely provoked by some of this stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:10 am 
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Man In Black wrote:
It seems Don Brash has been refused a speaking engagement by Massey Uni after threats of violence from far left activists. Not a good road to go down NZ :thumbdown:



https://www.facebook.com/notes/kardinal ... 364995301/

Here is the letter.

The last paragraph is the threat. I hope police arrest the plum.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:29 am 
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Meh. No different to the 'threat' in the post immediately before yours.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:30 am 
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True Blue wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
It seems Don Brash has been refused a speaking engagement by Massey Uni after threats of violence from far left activists. Not a good road to go down NZ :thumbdown:



https://www.facebook.com/notes/kardinal ... 364995301/

Here is the letter.

The last paragraph is the threat. I hope police arrest the plum.


Unacceptable.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:49 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
Meh. No different to the 'threat' in the post immediately before yours.


The implication that people won't be safe and there will be consequences is "meh" to you? Is this what you want NZ to become? No one should find this acceptable. Sounds like something the mafia would say.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:07 am 
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True Blue wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
It seems Don Brash has been refused a speaking engagement by Massey Uni after threats of violence from far left activists. Not a good road to go down NZ :thumbdown:



https://www.facebook.com/notes/kardinal ... 364995301/

Here is the letter.

The last paragraph is the threat. I hope police arrest the plum.

Is it enough to arrest someone? Is it enough to be considered a 'threat' that would allow police action?

While I don't think Southern and Molyneaux's free speech was impacted by their failure to find a venue willing to let them have their speech - I do think Massey are being idiots here, and they should let Brash speak.

Anyway, what's the worst that will happen? Someone will throw poo at him ;).

Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Santa wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
It seems Don Brash has been refused a speaking engagement by Massey Uni after threats of violence from far left activists. Not a good road to go down NZ :thumbdown:


The Hecklers Veto in full effect. It's the left's latest weapon. I wonder if the continued use of the Heckler's Veto will prompt a fundamental rethink of freedom of speech laws, which are typically oriented towards limiting government action. I wonder of there will be a shift to try to cover off activities by private citizens as well.



The difficulty in this is that the people who'd be keenest on implementing anything like that have a large crossover with those who support the free market. And whatever else it may be, establishments like the Powerstation dropping the Canadians or Twitter/FB banning people like Jones is actually market forces at work.

I'm not saying it'd stop them doing it, hypocrisy is everywhere of course, but it may give them a moments pause.

I've noticed this as well.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:10 am 
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Man In Black wrote:
It seems Don Brash has been refused a speaking engagement by Massey Uni after threats of violence from far left activists. Not a good road to go down NZ :thumbdown:


On what basis? His Orewa speech way back in 2004?

Or is it just the left leaning academics at the University that don't like Brash?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:34 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
It seems Don Brash has been refused a speaking engagement by Massey Uni after threats of violence from far left activists. Not a good road to go down NZ :thumbdown:


On what basis? His Orewa speech way back in 2004?

Or is it just the left leaning academics at the University that don't like Brash?


His Hobson’s pledge material is somewhat misguided.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:34 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
It seems Don Brash has been refused a speaking engagement by Massey Uni after threats of violence from far left activists. Not a good road to go down NZ :thumbdown:


On what basis? His Orewa speech way back in 2004?

Or is it just the left leaning academics at the University that don't like Brash?

Isn't he part of some anti-treaty group?

I know a bunch of left leaning academics at Massey who don't like Brash but have no problem with him speaking there.

I find it odd that anyone who leans slightly right has a hissy fit if any right leaning commentator is labelled alt right, yet the left is constantly lumped in with the far left.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:52 am 
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It is pretty disappointing that a former Reserve Bank governor, former Leader of the Opposition and well respected public servant can be deplatformed by the threats of an ignorant leftist. Imagine if they tried to do that to someone like Michael Cullen


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:55 am 
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deadduck wrote:
well respected public servant



I thought we were discussing Don Brash?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:37 am 
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NZ is catching up in the race to the bottom.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:42 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
NZ is catching up in the race to the bottom.



It's all Seneca's fault.


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