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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:10 am 
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You're underrating Helen's credentials a bit - remember her motorcade speeding to make the rugby on time? She didn't just give off the look that she'd give every player a BJ in the sheds after the game like Key did.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:55 am 
Maybe her unselfish offer was refused ?

Key however could have made a decent living out of being a professional fluffer if the market had ever completely crashed.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:57 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
You're underrating Helen's credentials a bit - remember her motorcade speeding to make the rugby on time? She didn't just give off the look that she'd give every player a BJ in the sheds after the game like Key did.


:lol:

Maybe our current PM needs to start using colloquial terms such as "mate" and "munted" like Key did.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:06 am 
Surely we aren’t going to suck in for that nonsense again ?

In Christchurch we had to try and stomach Sideshow Bob as well !

For all her perceived faults Jacinda doesn’t naturally go there thank goodness .


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:22 am 
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eugenius wrote:
Surely we aren’t going to suck in for that nonsense again ?

In Christchurch we had to try and stomach Sideshow Bob as well !

For all her perceived faults Jacinda doesn’t naturally go there thank goodness .


Actually must agree , she seemed relaxed and at ease with the ABs

Robertson on the other hand looked like a fluffer at a gangbang

And does Clarke the animal torturer get to tag along forever ? Tbf I would in his position


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:36 am 
Robertson was probably trying to hide a hard on .

Clarke has DJ Max to thank for the free pass, who can blame him ?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:44 am 
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eugenius wrote:
Robertson was probably trying to hide a hard on .

Clarke has DJ Max to thank for the free pass, who can blame him ?



Oh don’t get me wrong ... freebies are freebies ..

Robertson looked creepy , I’m not sure the bored is ready for jokes about a gay MP and the ABs


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:05 am 
Tough.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Well this little discussion is all class.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:31 pm 
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Lolz at the tighty righties. Some National voter made a gay joke at some point so you're all in it up to your necks. Hypocrites.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:12 pm 
Seneca of the Night wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Well this little discussion is all class.


Eug indulges in casual gay jokes down the docks as a beard to obscure his love of fine art from the lads.

Saves him from a neck roll and bonce rub at smoko time.



Nice arrempt Sen but I haven’t worked at the port for several years ; let alone I actually sold a large Nathan Pohio work from the show I curated to another Wharfie. For a fair wack too , but altogether a decent enough investment.

http://jonathansmartgallery.com/content/view/262/38/


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:14 pm 
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eugenius wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Well this little discussion is all class.


Eug indulges in casual gay jokes down the docks as a beard to obscure his love of fine art from the lads.

Saves him from a neck roll and bonce rub at smoko time.



Nice arrempt Sen but I haven’t worked at the port for several years ; let alone I actually sold a large Nathan Pohio work from the show I curated to another Wharfie. For a fair wack too , but altogether a decent enough investment.

http://jonathansmartgallery.com/content/view/262/38/


and the gay jokes thing, just a sideline?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:23 pm 
Here I was just thinking it a probable statement of fact !

The poor bastard did look awkward , which frankly was a little sad and very unnecessary.

No jokes needed.


Said as as much on a Facebook thread by the PM , ‘tell him it’s ok to look !’.
Goodness knows she was comfortable taking it all in* .

Given his long term relationship status I’m guessing Robertson has in fact lived quite a sheltered and rather private life.


Last edited by eugenius on Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:01 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:25 pm 
🤷🏼‍♂️


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:20 am 
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The National party..."I'm a firm believer in free speech BUT"

Quote:
National is calling on the Government to bar ex-US army intelligence analyst Chelsea Manning from visiting the country next month.

Former Immigration Minister Michael Woodhouse said the "convicted felon" should not be allowed to earn money talking about her crimes, and it would "not enhance" New Zealand's relationship with the US.

Manning, who was sentenced to 35 years in prison for leaking hundreds of thousands of classified American diplomatic and military documents, has two speaking events scheduled in early September.


Quote:
"I'm a firm believer in free speech. But I don't believe there is a basis to say that her crimes are victimless. We will never know because of the nature of her offending - whether there are people that were put in harm's way," Woodhouse said.

Green Party foreign affairs spokeswoman Golriz Ghahraman said Manning should definitely be let into New Zealand.

"She got her criminal convictions for acts that were in fact in the public interest. She doesn't pose a risk for New Zealand in relation to anything that dates back to those convictions...It's not like she was a drug or sex offender," Ghahraman said.

"She was trying to hold people to account for misuses of power. Which we welcome."

"She raised alert and really bravely put herself on the line. To say we are now going to stand with the oppressors that she was exposing is really offensive."

"Silencing Chelsea [Manning] is particularly callous - given she has already done her time through a lengthy term of imprisonment in particularly difficult circumstances."

Manning attempted suicide twice in prison.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern refused to comment on the situation on Tuesday morning, saying it was a matter for her immigration minister.

Free Speech Coalition member Chris Trotter said the group was preparing a response he was confident would be supportive of Manning's right to speak.

"I'm absolutely supportive of the efforts to bring her here and have her speak," Trotter said.

"I think the National Party is very foolish to take this position because it looks like it is upholding the right of the right to speak but not of the left."

The Free Speech Coalition was formed in response to Auckland Mayor Phil Goff barring far-right speakers Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux from speaking at council-owned venues.


The Nats, they're a train wreck, right? Just a shambles unravelling like your Aunt Marg's home knitted cardie hooked on barbed wire with nothing underneath it apart from an ill fitting bra with holes in it.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:34 am 
Christ !

Talk about a rabble without a cause.

How long can this shitshow of a leader last ?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:40 am 
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He's raised a salient point that NZ law prevents people from earning money by speaking about or writing about their criminal acts and this law should apply to Manning as well.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:49 am 
May I say how shocked and surprised I am that you would intervene at this juncture DD.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:02 am 
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I don't have a problem with her coming or speaking

But she has to do it within the limitations of the law of NZ, just as anyone else would. At the end of the day, she is a convicted felon and that will make things difficult for her. I don't know why Henry Cooke put that bit in " ", it's a fact he acknowledges later in the piece.


Rewrite the headline to "National suggests convicted spy and fraudster is denied work visa" and suddenly it doesn't seem so unusual. I bet Golriz wouldn't be so keen if it were someone like Anna Chapman who was trying to come.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:14 am 
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WTF is happening in NZ? Lauren Southern & Stefan Molyneux and now Chelsea Manning? Nanny state on both sides of NZ parliament. Anyone would think that NZ is one big safe space


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:18 am 
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deadduck wrote:
I don't have a problem with her coming or speaking

But she has to do it within the limitations of the law of NZ, just as anyone else would. At the end of the day, she is a convicted felon and that will make things difficult for her. I don't know why Henry Cooke put that bit in " ", it's a fact he acknowledges later in the piece.


Rewrite the headline to "National suggests convicted spy and fraudster is denied work visa" and suddenly it doesn't seem so unusual. I bet Golriz wouldn't be so keen if it were someone like Anna Chapman who was trying to come.


What law is that? Be interesting to see the wording. I follow a few legal beagles on twitter and they think National is barking.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:29 am 
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Any law that stops people from speaking should be looked at with deep suspicion. Felon or not there is also an argument that laws can be interpreted and applied in ways that were not initially intended by the legislation. So long as the speaker is not advocating for direct physical harm to another person or group let them speak.

National is wrong on this just like labour and the greens were wrong on Stephan and Lauren. Opposing speach on political grounds is just wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:32 am 
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Brabus wrote:
Any law that stops people from speaking should be looked at with deep suspicion. Felon or not there is also an argument that laws can be interpreted and applied in ways that were not initially intended by the legislation. So long as the speaker is not advocating for direct physical harm to another person or group let them speak.

National is wrong on this just like labour and the greens were wrong on Stephan and Lauren. Opposing speach on political grounds is just wrong.

Labour didn't stop them from coming to NZ, and didn't curtail their freedom of speech while they were in NZ. Goff in his role as Mayor denied them the use of a venue which was wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:35 am 
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I was more referring to our PMs gloating comments when they were deplatformed


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:57 am 
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Brabus wrote:
I was more referring to our PMs gloating comments when they were deplatformed

Demonetised you mean? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:02 am 
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Oh and just for the record when it comes to Stephan and Lauren all parties let us down, it would have been great if just one spokesperson didn't qualify their comments but they all did. It was spineless.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:03 am 
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No I mean deplatformed.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:04 am 
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And I'd be just as upset if it was a blue haired intersoncetionest that was hounded out of an opportunity to state their case.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:08 am 
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I have been convinced by the arguments from the left on this and now don't think Manning should be allowed to speak.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:11 am 
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Jacinda should set up a committee to look into this sort of thing.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:01 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
deadduck wrote:
I don't have a problem with her coming or speaking

But she has to do it within the limitations of the law of NZ, just as anyone else would. At the end of the day, she is a convicted felon and that will make things difficult for her. I don't know why Henry Cooke put that bit in " ", it's a fact he acknowledges later in the piece.


Rewrite the headline to "National suggests convicted spy and fraudster is denied work visa" and suddenly it doesn't seem so unusual. I bet Golriz wouldn't be so keen if it were someone like Anna Chapman who was trying to come.


What law is that? Be interesting to see the wording. I follow a few legal beagles on twitter and they think National is barking.


The law that says anyone convicted of a crime carrying a potential sentence of 5 years has to have special permission by either the immigration minister of a chief delegate

She got 35

Pretty funny really. I don't remember the left putting up such precious over Tyson being blocked for instance.

Personally don't care if she comes and speaks or not.

It's not like there is any chance of violence......The left like this one


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:24 am 
Santa wrote:
I have been convinced by the arguments from the left on this and now don't think Manning should be allowed to speak.



Chris Trotter is of the left - you dofus.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:27 am 
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Its funny to watch

It will be

Leftys

Canadians - Can't speak - Don't like them let's protest and make threats of violence
This left chick - Can speak - Like her
Jordan Peterson in feb - Can't speak - Don't like him let's protest and make threats of violence


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:40 am 
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Dark wrote:
Its funny to watch

It will be

Leftys

Canadians - Can't speak - Don't like them let's protest and make threats of violence
This left chick - Can speak - Like her
Jordan Peterson in feb - Can't speak - Don't like him let's protest and make threats of violence



Punctuated, of course by the thwakka thwakka thwakka sound of the Nats flip flopping over free speech.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:58 am 
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Just to state the obvious, it is not a free speech issue yet. It is an immigration issue. If that is resolved I suspect you will see very little opposition to Manning's visit. And certainly no threats of violence. The political implications of annoying the US should all be resolved in the immigration decision. Should be. Should.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:09 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Dark wrote:
Its funny to watch

It will be

Leftys

Canadians - Can't speak - Don't like them let's protest and make threats of violence
This left chick - Can speak - Like her
Jordan Peterson in feb - Can't speak - Don't like him let's protest and make threats of violence



Punctuated, of course by the thwakka thwakka thwakka sound of the Nats flip flopping over free speech.


I missed you at the let in Tyson and Chris Brown protests

Oh there weren't any

It is a visa for a convicted felon issue. Not a FoS issue

If she is let in then bitch if the Nats don't want her to talk


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:14 am 
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Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
deadduck wrote:
I don't have a problem with her coming or speaking

But she has to do it within the limitations of the law of NZ, just as anyone else would. At the end of the day, she is a convicted felon and that will make things difficult for her. I don't know why Henry Cooke put that bit in " ", it's a fact he acknowledges later in the piece.


Rewrite the headline to "National suggests convicted spy and fraudster is denied work visa" and suddenly it doesn't seem so unusual. I bet Golriz wouldn't be so keen if it were someone like Anna Chapman who was trying to come.


What law is that? Be interesting to see the wording. I follow a few legal beagles on twitter and they think National is barking.


The law that says anyone convicted of a crime carrying a potential sentence of 5 years has to have special permission by either the immigration minister of a chief delegate

She got 35

Pretty funny really. I don't remember the left putting up such precious over Tyson being blocked for instance.

Personally don't care if she comes and speaks or not.

It's not like there is any chance of violence......The left like this one


I was referring to the law DD references earlier (not in my quote admittedly) about not being allowed to profit from talking about, or writing about, their criminal acts.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:18 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
deadduck wrote:
I don't have a problem with her coming or speaking

But she has to do it within the limitations of the law of NZ, just as anyone else would. At the end of the day, she is a convicted felon and that will make things difficult for her. I don't know why Henry Cooke put that bit in " ", it's a fact he acknowledges later in the piece.


Rewrite the headline to "National suggests convicted spy and fraudster is denied work visa" and suddenly it doesn't seem so unusual. I bet Golriz wouldn't be so keen if it were someone like Anna Chapman who was trying to come.


What law is that? Be interesting to see the wording. I follow a few legal beagles on twitter and they think National is barking.


The law that says anyone convicted of a crime carrying a potential sentence of 5 years has to have special permission by either the immigration minister of a chief delegate

She got 35

Pretty funny really. I don't remember the left putting up such precious over Tyson being blocked for instance.

Personally don't care if she comes and speaks or not.

It's not like there is any chance of violence......The left like this one


I was referring to the law DD references earlier (not in my quote admittedly) about not being allowed to profit from talking about, or writing about, their criminal acts.


There is definitely non profit from crime laws

Not sure of the details though.

I think they are the similar to the U.S. ones that stopped OJ publishing his "If I had been the killer I would have done it like this" book.

(Not actually called that but something similar)


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:34 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
deadduck wrote:
I don't have a problem with her coming or speaking

But she has to do it within the limitations of the law of NZ, just as anyone else would. At the end of the day, she is a convicted felon and that will make things difficult for her. I don't know why Henry Cooke put that bit in " ", it's a fact he acknowledges later in the piece.


Rewrite the headline to "National suggests convicted spy and fraudster is denied work visa" and suddenly it doesn't seem so unusual. I bet Golriz wouldn't be so keen if it were someone like Anna Chapman who was trying to come.


What law is that? Be interesting to see the wording. I follow a few legal beagles on twitter and they think National is barking.


The law that says anyone convicted of a crime carrying a potential sentence of 5 years has to have special permission by either the immigration minister of a chief delegate

She got 35

Pretty funny really. I don't remember the left putting up such precious over Tyson being blocked for instance.

Personally don't care if she comes and speaks or not.

It's not like there is any chance of violence......The left like this one


I was referring to the law DD references earlier (not in my quote admittedly) about not being allowed to profit from talking about, or writing about, their criminal acts.



It's part of the proceeds of crime legislation, at least that is my understanding. Hopefully there is a bored expert available

Remember when Nicky Hager published Dirty Politics and there was investigation into the hacker Rawshark's involvement and connection to Hager? The law was applicable there, if Hager had been successfully prosecuted the State would have been able to seize the profits from the book. I also recall the likes of Jordan Belfort (Wolf of Wall St guy) running into it when he came to NZ, he had to be wary of what he could talk about and had to stick to sales strategies.
It's also the reason why there aren't really any "tell-all" prison books or autobiographies from notorious criminals
Presumably there are complications with Manning being a non-resident and would probably leave the country before any action could be taken, but if she was granted a visa for a public event where people would pay to attend and the content included her criminal activities for which she was convicted, it would be in breach of the law. But if she is successfully able to skirt the law, then there is no issue in terms of free speech.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:34 am 
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Good grief. The (il)logical leaps of faith to support ideological positions here are ridiculous.

Though I do suppose that National support for whistleblowers is at an all time low at the moment.


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