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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:42 am 
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At the moment it is a pure entry visa issue

If Labour let her in and then the Nat's bitch about her actually speaking I promise I will be the first to line up with the left on here to call them hypocrites


Last edited by Dark on Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:44 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
BillW wrote:
Jacinda should set up a committee to look into this sort of thing.


Good idea.


Agreed.

I'm sure Jacinda can smile, deflect and bluff her way to a satisfactory outcome utilising her relentless positivity. :D :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:01 am 
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I imagine in the coming days there will be more clarity emerging surrounding Woodhouse's comments. Almost all of the media reporting on this issue is taking a "O M G such a hypocrite" angle and completely ignoring the murkier proceeds of crime angle which is much less well understood by the general public. Henry Cooke's original bit on Stuff is particularly clickbaity and it's no wonder the headline has been jumped on by all the left wing blogs.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:13 am 
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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:56 am 
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Considering the context, Woodhouse's comments are seriously misjudged at best. Any politician half his salt would've known the can of worms this would open. Considering the hits scored recently by those backing free speech, this shows absolutely appalling judgement. Coupled with Simon Bridges pursuing an investigation to find someone with potential mental health issues, despite declaring he had the best interests of this person at heart, and I'm starting to lose my confidence in the competence of the National Party.

Yet Sen continues to sit in his corner blissfully believing the only person out of their depth in parliament is Jacinda. Oh well, at least we have Clare Curran reminding us that Labour is still riddled with incompetence.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:10 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
BillW wrote:
Jacinda should set up a committee to look into this sort of thing.


Good idea.


Agreed.

I'm sure Jacinda can smile, deflect and bluff her way to a satisfactory outcome utilising her relentless positivity. :D :D :D

That's uncanny - those three Jacindas you put there.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:26 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Considering the context, Woodhouse's comments are seriously misjudged at best. Any politician half his salt would've known the can of worms this would open. Considering the hits scored recently by those backing free speech, this shows absolutely appalling judgement. Coupled with Simon Bridges pursuing an investigation to find someone with potential mental health issues, despite declaring he had the best interests of this person at heart, and I'm starting to lose my confidence in the competence of the National Party.

Yet Sen continues to sit in his corner blissfully believing the only person out of their depth in parliament is Jacinda. Oh well, at least we have Clare Curran reminding us that Labour is still riddled with incompetence.



Theres making shit up and there is just, well, making huge steaming piles of shit up.



Who else have you suggested is out of their depth on several occasions?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:56 am 
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:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:04 pm 
Thank goodness we won’t need fibre.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:36 am 
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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:26 am 
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deadduck wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
deadduck wrote:
I don't have a problem with her coming or speaking

But she has to do it within the limitations of the law of NZ, just as anyone else would. At the end of the day, she is a convicted felon and that will make things difficult for her. I don't know why Henry Cooke put that bit in " ", it's a fact he acknowledges later in the piece.


Rewrite the headline to "National suggests convicted spy and fraudster is denied work visa" and suddenly it doesn't seem so unusual. I bet Golriz wouldn't be so keen if it were someone like Anna Chapman who was trying to come.


What law is that? Be interesting to see the wording. I follow a few legal beagles on twitter and they think National is barking.


The law that says anyone convicted of a crime carrying a potential sentence of 5 years has to have special permission by either the immigration minister of a chief delegate

She got 35

Pretty funny really. I don't remember the left putting up such precious over Tyson being blocked for instance.

Personally don't care if she comes and speaks or not.

It's not like there is any chance of violence......The left like this one


I was referring to the law DD references earlier (not in my quote admittedly) about not being allowed to profit from talking about, or writing about, their criminal acts.



It's part of the proceeds of crime legislation, at least that is my understanding. Hopefully there is a bored expert available

Remember when Nicky Hager published Dirty Politics and there was investigation into the hacker Rawshark's involvement and connection to Hager? The law was applicable there, if Hager had been successfully prosecuted the State would have been able to seize the profits from the book. I also recall the likes of Jordan Belfort (Wolf of Wall St guy) running into it when he came to NZ, he had to be wary of what he could talk about and had to stick to sales strategies.
It's also the reason why there aren't really any "tell-all" prison books or autobiographies from notorious criminals
Presumably there are complications with Manning being a non-resident and would probably leave the country before any action could be taken, but if she was granted a visa for a public event where people would pay to attend and the content included her criminal activities for which she was convicted, it would be in breach of the law. But if she is successfully able to skirt the law, then there is no issue in terms of free speech.


Here lies a point of difference for NZ.

The concept of Koha.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:18 am 
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deadduck wrote:
I imagine in the coming days there will be more clarity emerging surrounding Woodhouse's comments. Almost all of the media reporting on this issue is taking a "O M G such a hypocrite" angle and completely ignoring the murkier proceeds of crime angle which is much less well understood by the general public. Henry Cooke's original bit on Stuff is particularly clickbaity and it's no wonder the headline has been jumped on by all the left wing blogs.


That's not his call though. We still have an apolitical public service in NZ, thank fudge, and politicians should simply stay the fuck out of matters that don't concern them unless there is a failure in the law.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:56 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Considering the context, Woodhouse's comments are seriously misjudged at best. Any politician half his salt would've known the can of worms this would open. Considering the hits scored recently by those backing free speech, this shows absolutely appalling judgement. Coupled with Simon Bridges pursuing an investigation to find someone with potential mental health issues, despite declaring he had the best interests of this person at heart, and I'm starting to lose my confidence in the competence of the National Party.

Yet Sen continues to sit in his corner blissfully believing the only person out of their depth in parliament is Jacinda. Oh well, at least we have Clare Curran reminding us that Labour is still riddled with incompetence.



Theres making shit up and there is just, well, making huge steaming piles of shit up.



Who else have you suggested is out of their depth on several occasions?


Jesus. Christ. I have to say everything I think on here? Give me a minute and I'll download my brain for you guys to pick over.

It's not turned up, Sen.

DId you send it in a mac-compatible format?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:12 am 
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Ted. wrote:
deadduck wrote:
I imagine in the coming days there will be more clarity emerging surrounding Woodhouse's comments. Almost all of the media reporting on this issue is taking a "O M G such a hypocrite" angle and completely ignoring the murkier proceeds of crime angle which is much less well understood by the general public. Henry Cooke's original bit on Stuff is particularly clickbaity and it's no wonder the headline has been jumped on by all the left wing blogs.


That's not his call though. We still have an apolitical public service in NZ, thank fudge, and politicians should simply stay the fuck out of matters that don't concern them unless there is a failure in the law.


OK so she's not coming then. Sorted.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:14 am 
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Why are we not talking about Labour Ministers and the continual displays of incompetence? Another one looks likely to bite the dust due to staff problems or some such...

Yes I forgot her name already :blush:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:26 am 
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Santa wrote:
Ted. wrote:
deadduck wrote:
I imagine in the coming days there will be more clarity emerging surrounding Woodhouse's comments. Almost all of the media reporting on this issue is taking a "O M G such a hypocrite" angle and completely ignoring the murkier proceeds of crime angle which is much less well understood by the general public. Henry Cooke's original bit on Stuff is particularly clickbaity and it's no wonder the headline has been jumped on by all the left wing blogs.


That's not his call though. We still have an apolitical public service in NZ, thank fudge, and politicians should simply stay the fuck out of matters that don't concern them unless there is a failure in the law.


OK so she's not coming then. Sorted.


Except that's not at all what I said, is it.

Got your riposte ready to go?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:52 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
BillW wrote:
Jacinda should set up a committee to look into this sort of thing.


Good idea.


Agreed.

I'm sure Jacinda can smile, deflect and bluff her way to a satisfactory outcome utilising her relentless positivity. :D :D :D


It worked for Teflon John Kee.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:53 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Funny kiwiblog thread here about the cto role. Seems the spinoff crowd are not happy.

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/08/back ... l#comments


Cold day in hell when Kiwiblog comments agree with The Spinoff.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:10 am 
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See Ardern has actually dumped a minister rather than just pretend to like she did with her ex flatmate Curran, today

Apparently for assaulting her staff


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:41 am 
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Dark wrote:
See Ardern has actually dumped a minister rather than just pretend to like she did with her ex flatmate Curran, today

Apparently for assaulting her staff


Speculation that Curran wasn't dumped because Whaitiri was next in line to replace her.

God I feel sorry for Ardern. She's surrounded by muppets.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:56 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:
See Ardern has actually dumped a minister rather than just pretend to like she did with her ex flatmate Curran, today

Apparently for assaulting her staff


Speculation that Curran wasn't dumped because Whaitiri was next in line to replace her.

God I feel sorry for Ardern. She's surrounded by muppets.


It's unfortunate that she had no influence over these selections.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:03 am 
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Are you inferring there is better quality in Labour she should have picked? I'm not down with the backbenchers but that seems like a stretch to me.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:10 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Are you inferring there is better quality in Labour she should have picked? I'm not down with the backbenchers but that seems like a stretch to me.


You reckon she couldn't find anyone who wouldn't assault their staff or lie?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:14 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:
See Ardern has actually dumped a minister rather than just pretend to like she did with her ex flatmate Curran, today

Apparently for assaulting her staff


Speculation that Curran wasn't dumped because Whaitiri was next in line to replace her.

God I feel sorry for Ardern. She's surrounded by muppets.


Yes, she is a towering colossus of experience, intellect, competence let down by those around her. Be interesting to see how much longer this radical experiment in alternative leadership drags on for.

Difficult to think how much more leeway anyone could have been given to learn on the job. Books will be written about this one day.

What's alternative about it?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:17 am 
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Santa wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Are you inferring there is better quality in Labour she should have picked? I'm not down with the backbenchers but that seems like a stretch to me.


You reckon she couldn't find anyone who wouldn't assault their staff or lie?

She possibly could.
But that would upset the gender and racial balance.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:24 am 
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farmerdave wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:
See Ardern has actually dumped a minister rather than just pretend to like she did with her ex flatmate Curran, today

Apparently for assaulting her staff


Speculation that Curran wasn't dumped because Whaitiri was next in line to replace her.

God I feel sorry for Ardern. She's surrounded by muppets.


Yes, she is a towering colossus of experience, intellect, competence let down by those around her. Be interesting to see how much longer this radical experiment in alternative leadership drags on for.

Difficult to think how much more leeway anyone could have been given to learn on the job. Books will be written about this one day.

What's alternative about it?


It's better than other forms of leadership.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:03 am 
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farmerdave wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:
See Ardern has actually dumped a minister rather than just pretend to like she did with her ex flatmate Curran, today

Apparently for assaulting her staff


Speculation that Curran wasn't dumped because Whaitiri was next in line to replace her.

God I feel sorry for Ardern. She's surrounded by muppets.


Yes, she is a towering colossus of experience, intellect, competence let down by those around her. Be interesting to see how much longer this radical experiment in alternative leadership drags on for.

Difficult to think how much more leeway anyone could have been given to learn on the job. Books will be written about this one day.

What's alternative about it?


Sen has something of an old-school view on young women in power. To put it mildly...


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:51 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
farmerdave wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:
See Ardern has actually dumped a minister rather than just pretend to like she did with her ex flatmate Curran, today

Apparently for assaulting her staff


Speculation that Curran wasn't dumped because Whaitiri was next in line to replace her.

God I feel sorry for Ardern. She's surrounded by muppets.


Yes, she is a towering colossus of experience, intellect, competence let down by those around her. Be interesting to see how much longer this radical experiment in alternative leadership drags on for.

Difficult to think how much more leeway anyone could have been given to learn on the job. Books will be written about this one day.

What's alternative about it?


Sen has something of an old-school view on young women in power. To put it mildly...


It has got a bit weird since Ardern became PM

For example suddenly saying some one lacks experience and competence or like the other day a Nat calling Robertson a ventriloquist have now morphed into sexist actions.

It is odd. The defensiveness from Labour people round Ardern has become silly

For example if Hipkins had become leader and the same things were said (As he has a similar background) it wouldn't be noticed.

It is bordering on being patronising to her


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Ardern had just as much experience as a PM as every PM before her. She had more experience than John Key in politics when Key rose to power. The one thing you could use against her is her lack of time leading the Labour party. Despite this, I think she's been doing a pretty good job. A lot of people bemoan her experience and claim shes just a smiling face but I've yet to see any significant proof of this. The issues coming up on her watch seem to be the standard shit-of-the-day every PM has to deal with.

I do think the left can be a bit quick to cry sexism at the slightest hint of criticism. It's easy to take that defense when someone finds fault where you see none (you immediately assume there is no fault, so the other person must have some form of bias). That said, I've certainly seen a fair bit of sexism in judging Ardern, and it's been a bit depressing as I thought NZ was better than that. Sen's comments are a good example (though I'm still trying to determine just how much he believes and how much is trolling).


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:50 pm 
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah. Right on. Preach it, brother.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:34 pm 
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The problem with 'long periods of settled government' is that there is always a slab of the population who are either disenfranchised, disadvantaged or just disgusted with any government.

Settled govt then only serves its supporters, up to a point and the inevitable swing back then serves the same up to the other side. That's all that's really happening here. Regime change.

NZers have it good. The issues that occupy attention there are trivial in the scheme of things. Something on tv caught my eye earlier... we don't have to deal with being shot in the head as a teen for being an outspoken female, for instance. We're not faced with artillery bombardments or mass displacement.

We get to fret over a mid 30s female leader and her assumed fitness for task. She's doing fine, Sen. The rest of the parliament need to get their shit together and try to keep up.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:59 pm 
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You made a comment there before about Australia being ahead in political fashion...

it's an interesting dynamic. Are we going to see the same 'forces' align in NZ? I dunno... and it'll piss me off mightily as I've thrown my lot in with Aoteroa for the immediate future :lol:

I think one massive discriminating factor is the relative lack of Rupert Murdoch in NZ compared with Aus, UK and US. Long may that continue.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:41 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
I see manning has been refused entry to Australia so the trip probably won't go ahead anyway.


And rightly so. I wonder if we'll follow suit based on the fact she is a convicted criminal?
Of course the Greens and other elements of the loony left will simply see this as Australia kowtowing to the US big brother and insist that she still be allowed to visit NZ. Any anti American rhetoric is always trendy and popular with the left.

As an aside why the fudge did that peacenik Obama pardon this person?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:50 pm 
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booji boy wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I see manning has been refused entry to Australia so the trip probably won't go ahead anyway.


And rightly so. I wonder if we'll follow suit based on the fact she is a convicted criminal?
Of course the Greens and other elements of the loony left will simply see this as Australia kowtowing to the US big brother and insist that she still be allowed to visit NZ. Any anti American rhetoric is always trendy and popular with the left.

As an aside why the fudge did that peacenik Obama pardon this person?



Because it was the cool thing to do and he was the cool President.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:06 pm 
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Sonny Blount wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I see manning has been refused entry to Australia so the trip probably won't go ahead anyway.


And rightly so. I wonder if we'll follow suit based on the fact she is a convicted criminal?
Of course the Greens and other elements of the loony left will simply see this as Australia kowtowing to the US big brother and insist that she still be allowed to visit NZ. Any anti American rhetoric is always trendy and popular with the left.

As an aside why the fudge did that peacenik Obama pardon this person?



Because it was the cool thing to do and he was the cool President.


When he sang that Al Green song I knew that he would be the one to bring in the new age of peace. An absolutely inspiring moment.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Sonny Blount wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I see manning has been refused entry to Australia so the trip probably won't go ahead anyway.


And rightly so. I wonder if we'll follow suit based on the fact she is a convicted criminal?
Of course the Greens and other elements of the loony left will simply see this as Australia kowtowing to the US big brother and insist that she still be allowed to visit NZ. Any anti American rhetoric is always trendy and popular with the left.

As an aside why the fudge did that peacenik Obama pardon this person?



Because it was the cool thing to do and he was the cool President.


He was trolling Trump.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:14 pm 
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He didn't pardon her, he just decided that 35 years in prison was excessive and reduced it to 7


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:31 pm 
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I see Manning has been cleared to visit NZ. Surprise, surprise. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:36 pm 
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booji boy wrote:
I see Manning has been cleared to visit NZ. Surprise, surprise. :roll:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

How independent of us. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:46 pm 
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Let 'em all in I say. She won't make money if nobody wants to go her events.

Australia takes pleasing America a little more seriously than NZ does.


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