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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:08 pm
by Santa
That should be the end of that. Hopefully no threats of violence or court cases or anything much at all.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:55 pm
by True Blue
Auckman wrote:Let 'em all in I say. She won't make money if nobody wants to go her events.

Australia takes pleasing America a little more seriously than NZ does.

He was convicted of treason, that's a pretty serious crime. I would not have expected him to be allowed a visa. Odd decision but I suppose it is Labour.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:01 am
by Ted.
Australia has become quite the conservative paradise, hasn't it.

I know there was always been the blokey banter and the casual racism, Queensland the rural rump and such like, so is this an actual shift or was this deep conservativism always lurking just beneath the lipstick and fishnets? Did good old Jo leave that much of a mark, or was he ready made for the job?

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:03 am
by Ted.
True Blue wrote:
Auckman wrote:Let 'em all in I say. She won't make money if nobody wants to go her events.

Australia takes pleasing America a little more seriously than NZ does.

He was convicted of treason, that's a pretty serious crime. I would not have expected him to be allowed a visa. Odd decision but I suppose it is Labour.
I guess that would be true if it was the minister making the decision. It wasn't though and a damn good thing too, IMO. The less day to day decisions politicians make, the better off we are.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:16 am
by guy smiley
Ted. wrote:Australia has become quite the conservative paradise, hasn't it.

I know there was always been the blokey banter and the casual racism, Queensland the rural rump and such like, so is this an actual shift or was this deep conservativism always lurking just beneath the lipstick and fishnets? Did good old Jo leave that much of a mark, or was he ready made for the job?
Ready made...

but his reign was only in Qld and he got laughed off the planet for his 'Joh for Canberra' tilt outside of Qld. The thing about Qld though, is it produces most of the really whacked batshit crazy types and the conservative ones get into politics.

Pauline Hanson's first incarnation back in the day scared John Howard because he could see her taking votes off his side. Rather than stand against it he co-opted the gist of her policies and really kicked the whole country into the spiral of populism you see now with both major parties playing the same game. It's been a general shift to the Right now for over 20 years and the result...

well, Tony Abbott was PM. His lunacy is becoming quite apparent and I think some Aussies are starting to wonder how the hell they got here.

There's a healthy streak of xenophobia in Australia though... perhaps stemming from WWII and the close call with Japanese invasion. Perhaps its roots lie further back in the settlement days, the fear of an alien environment bristling with dangers, heat, snakes, fire, all manner of threats and an incomprehensible native population.

Maybe it's just the Catholics.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:13 am
by jono45
You can take the girl out of Stings.........
From memory the last time i can remember physical violence being reported at parliament was Mallard bashing someone...broken Labour

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:07 am
by Wilderbeast
jono45 wrote:You can take the girl out of Stings.........
From memory the last time i can remember physical violence being reported at parliament was Mallard bashing someone...broken Labour
Are you referring to the fisticuffs with Tau? Because that kinda involved National too.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:14 am
by Dark
Wilderbeast wrote:
jono45 wrote:You can take the girl out of Stings.........
From memory the last time i can remember physical violence being reported at parliament was Mallard bashing someone...broken Labour
Are you referring to the fisticuffs with Tau? Because that kinda involved National too.
Yeah

It involved Mallard liking to dish it out and being a prick but not being able to handle it back
Trevor Mallard and Tau Henare came to blows at Parliament yesterday after the National MP accused the minister of being a hypocrite.

It is believed Mr Mallard struck Mr Henare during a heated argument in a lobby outside the parliamentary debating chamber and the pair had to be prised apart.

Prime Minister Helen Clark said the two men "should look in the mirror" over their behaviour.

The incident came after Mr Henare had goaded Mr Mallard in the House over his personal life. The minister has recently separated from his wife.

Mr Mallard asked Mr Henare to discuss the matter in the lobbies, where they got into a heated argument and Mr Henare accused the minister of being a "hypocrite".

This appeared to refer to an incident in the House last year in which Mr Mallard shouted across the chamber to then National Party leader Don Brash, "How's Diane?"

Dr Brash was later confronted in caucus by MP Brian Connell, who wanted to know whether he was having an affair with Auckland businesswoman Diane Foreman. Dr Brash then took time off the job to try to save his marriage.

Mr Mallard has been under stress from not only from his marital split but from the death of his father just over two weeks ago.

Mr Mallard and Deputy Prime Minister Michael Cullen later visited the National Party's headquarters on the third floor of the Parliament buildings and spoke to senior National MP Gerry Brownlee about the incident.

Mr Mallard personally apologised to Mr Henare and the apology was accepted.

Miss Clark's spokesman confirmed the incident had taken place and she was not happy about it.

"Both men should look in the mirror," Miss Clark said through the spokesman.

Asked if Miss Clark was going to take the matter further the spokesman said: "I don't know ... we will have to wait and see".

National Party leader John Key today said he had expressed disappointment to Mr Henare this morning about the altercation.

"I'm pleased Mr Mallard has apologised to Mr Henare for his actions. There is no place for physical violence in New Zealand politics."

Mr Mallard would make no comment.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:21 pm
by booji boy
guy smiley wrote:
Ted. wrote:Australia has become quite the conservative paradise, hasn't it.

I know there was always been the blokey banter and the casual racism, Queensland the rural rump and such like, so is this an actual shift or was this deep conservativism always lurking just beneath the lipstick and fishnets? Did good old Jo leave that much of a mark, or was he ready made for the job?
Ready made...

but his reign was only in Qld and he got laughed off the planet for his 'Joh for Canberra' tilt outside of Qld. The thing about Qld though, is it produces most of the really whacked batshit crazy types and the conservative ones get into politics.

Pauline Hanson's first incarnation back in the day scared John Howard because he could see her taking votes off his side. Rather than stand against it he co-opted the gist of her policies and really kicked the whole country into the spiral of populism you see now with both major parties playing the same game. It's been a general shift to the Right now for over 20 years and the result...

well, Tony Abbott was PM. His lunacy is becoming quite apparent and I think some Aussies are starting to wonder how the hell they got here.

There's a healthy streak of xenophobia in Australia though... perhaps stemming from WWII and the close call with Japanese invasion. Perhaps its roots lie further back in the settlement days, the fear of an alien environment bristling with dangers, heat, snakes, fire, all manner of threats and an incomprehensible native population.

Maybe it's just the Catholics.
Agree with all this. Not sure why but xenophobia and race relations in general are in a far worse state this side of the Tasman. As a regular visitor to Queensland I see examples of this quite all the time. Recently heard someone refer to a black American as a negro. When I pointed out that the word is not really used anymore he seemed quite taken aback.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:26 pm
by kiwidutchie
Sonny Blount wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:I see manning has been refused entry to Australia so the trip probably won't go ahead anyway.
And rightly so. I wonder if we'll follow suit based on the fact she is a convicted criminal?
Of course the Greens and other elements of the loony left will simply see this as Australia kowtowing to the US big brother and insist that she still be allowed to visit NZ. Any anti American rhetoric is always trendy and popular with the left.

As an aside why the fudge did that peacenik Obama pardon this person?

Because it was the cool thing to do and he was the cool President.
Actually, she was not pardoned. Her scentence was commutted to time served but the conviction stands.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:53 pm
by eugenius

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:14 pm
by booji boy
kiwidutchie wrote:
Sonny Blount wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:I see manning has been refused entry to Australia so the trip probably won't go ahead anyway.
And rightly so. I wonder if we'll follow suit based on the fact she is a convicted criminal?
Of course the Greens and other elements of the loony left will simply see this as Australia kowtowing to the US big brother and insist that she still be allowed to visit NZ. Any anti American rhetoric is always trendy and popular with the left.

As an aside why the fudge did that peacenik Obama pardon this person?

Because it was the cool thing to do and he was the cool President.
Actually, she was not pardoned. Her scentence was commutted to time served but the conviction stands.
Deadduck beat you too it.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:19 pm
by Ted.
Most of these so-called business leaders are just bureaucrats who have climbed the greasy pole in a large corporate.
Ain't that the truth. They also lack the constraints that public service bureaucrats labour under, so tend to extend the bottom lip when they can't do absolutely what they like in the name of the shareholder. Apart from an Aussie banker with his balls being squeezed by a regulator, who does remind you of?

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:35 pm
by Mr Mike
They have my full confidence.

Image

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:38 pm
by Fat Old Git
Ted. wrote:
Most of these so-called business leaders are just bureaucrats who have climbed the greasy pole in a large corporate.
Ain't that the truth. They also lack the constraints that public service bureaucrats labour under, so tend to extend the bottom lip when they can't do absolutely what they like in the name of the shareholder. Apart from an Aussie banker with his balls being squeezed by a regulator, who does remind you of?
Public service, private business, It doesn't matter which. Those at the top look after themselves and screw everyone else.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:42 pm
by Wilderbeast
I don’t necessarily believe that of public service. I’ve come across multiple secretaries/ceos clearly not in it for themselves. I’m not sure that made them any better at their job though...

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:49 pm
by Fat Old Git
Wilderbeast wrote:I don’t necessarily believe that of public service. I’ve come across multiple secretaries/ceos clearly not in it for themselves. I’m not sure that made them any better at their job though...
I work for a government owned not for profit. Our senior management assign a lot of things to people (mainly themselves) based on status rather than need. And tell everyone else to suck up situations imposed on them that they never impose on themselves. It pisses me off no end.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:00 am
by MungoMan
Ted. wrote:Australia has become quite the conservative paradise, hasn't it.

I know there was always been the blokey banter and the casual racism, Queensland the rural rump and such like, so is this an actual shift or was this deep conservativism always lurking just beneath the lipstick and fishnets? Did good old Jo leave that much of a mark, or was he ready made for the job?
:lol:

You know JBP was last Qld Premier 31 year ago? Well, there've been a few Labor Qld and Cwth governments in that time. And another of the latter in the offing.

I'm looking forward to that bloodbath.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:11 am
by merlin the happy pig
The main difference between public and private is that public programs can show no benefit or negative benefit and still be funded.
Companies that do that eventually go broke.
The same eventually happens to some degree as people rebel against higher taxes and demand value for money, but the method is indirect, the decision makers (voters) have little reliable information to work with, and often don't have the time to take an interest.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:31 am
by Wilderbeast
Fat Old Git wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:I don’t necessarily believe that of public service. I’ve come across multiple secretaries/ceos clearly not in it for themselves. I’m not sure that made them any better at their job though...
I work for a government owned not for profit. Our senior management assign a lot of things to people (mainly themselves) based on status rather than need. And tell everyone else to suck up situations imposed on them that they never impose on themselves. It pisses me off no end.
This is certainly the norm. No arguments there.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:52 am
by Wilderbeast
merlin the happy pig wrote:The main difference between public and private is that public programs can show no benefit or negative benefit and still be funded.
Companies that do that eventually go broke.
The same eventually happens to some degree as people rebel against higher taxes and demand value for money, but the method is indirect, the decision makers (voters) have little reliable information to work with, and often don't have the time to take an interest.
They have quite a bit of information but few know where to find it and even less care. You could argue they spin it to suit their agenda, and they do, but no less than private companies do.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:07 am
by guy smiley
Fat Old Git wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Most of these so-called business leaders are just bureaucrats who have climbed the greasy pole in a large corporate.
Ain't that the truth. They also lack the constraints that public service bureaucrats labour under, so tend to extend the bottom lip when they can't do absolutely what they like in the name of the shareholder. Apart from an Aussie banker with his balls being squeezed by a regulator, who does remind you of?
Public service, private business, It doesn't matter which. Those at the top look after themselves and screw everyone else.

That is an unfair generalisation.

I completely agree with the opinion in the article. Now is a perfect time to launch a serious inquiry into banking practise on NZ off the back of the Royal Commission in Australia which is unearthing criminal activity.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:45 am
by Fat Old Git
A generalization based on my own experience. Which as we know if far more relevant than anything that might show my view to be incorrect such as statistically valid scientifically conducted studies...

I agree re investigating the banking industry (even though I didn't read the article).

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:01 am
by guy smiley
I remember reading something ages back about how prosperity desensitizes us to the struggles of the less well off, essentially. I've thought about that at different times since and have a vague sort of theory about aspiration, or greed if you want, being a type of addictive behaviour in the sense that it has no end point. The more we have, the more we want or think we need. I think there's a parallel in the way social media operates too, with a lot of status or perceived wellbeing traded through activities and pictures... it's a crude generalisation I know but I'm just trying to illustrate a dynamic.

I think that dynamic is echoed in business management practise, perhaps its vice versa... but people who embark on a career path that leads to management seem to be driven by the career path, not the occupation. It's a sort of aspiration to want to climb higher. When I was a kid that sort of thing was referred to in various stories and movies as the norm.

I think it's fair to say that sort of dynamic is present and many leaders are more occupied with their own advancement but there are also plenty of people in positions of power or influence who have genuine passion for their jobs and the people involved in them, or the services they're responsible for. In that sense I think it's unfair to generalise... and I have family who would fit the target here so I'm motivated to defend a little. When we're all together the conversations often follow this sort of path though... all of us, regardless of rank so to speak, share a fair degree of cynicism regarding political and business leadership.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:28 am
by Dark
It appears now their favourite gal Manning has been let in the left have switched back to being against free speech again

20 bucks says there will be threats of violence and maybe another fake bomb

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... kland.html

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:40 am
by Wilderbeast
Dark wrote:It appears now their favourite gal Manning has been let in the left have switched back to being against free speech again

20 bucks says there will be threats of violence and maybe another fake bomb

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeal ... kland.html
Where does it say they are against free speech?

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:48 am
by TheDocForgotHisLogon
Wilderbeast wrote:I don’t necessarily believe that of public service. I’ve come across multiple secretaries/ceos clearly not in it for themselves. I’m not sure that made them any better at their job though...
Bingo. I worked for Michael Winteringham (very briefly), Mark Prebble, and Iain Rennie. None of them were in it for themselves - there was a genuine sense of service in the whole organisation. Prebble was reasonably effective; Rennie was a wet paper bag of timid risk management - when he didn't sack Bach for assaulting and abusing a staff member he completely lost the shed at SSC and you could feel the whole place shrink.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:28 pm
by grouch
merlin the happy pig wrote:The main difference between public and private is that public programs can show no benefit or negative benefit and still be funded.
Companies that do that eventually go broke.
The same eventually happens to some degree as people rebel against higher taxes and demand value for money, but the method is indirect, the decision makers (voters) have little reliable information to work with, and often don't have the time to take an interest.
Not if they have established a monopoly or collude with 'competitors' to price fix.

Both of which are bizness 1.01 at the high end of town.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:57 pm
by Wilderbeast
She’s somewhat famous in NZ already, though I’m far too old and out of touch to know how famous she actually is...

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:34 pm
by Santa
Seneca of the Night wrote:So, Lizzie Marvelly huh.

I suspect she might end up quite famous. She is stupid on a sort of galactic scale, and that's probably enough for fame outside New Zealand.

I like reading her twitter feed. https://twitter.com/LizzieMarvelly.

And this is pretty cool: https://tendaily.com.au/views/a180903af ... r-20180903
She's a singer/songwriter and political commentator from Rotorua. That is a very surprising sentence.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:13 am
by booji boy
All I know about Liz Marvelly is that my wife has had some dealings with her and can't stand her. Absolute prima donna in her opinion.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:23 am
by maxbox
Yeah Lizzie strikes me as a Dame Kiri in the making...

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:39 am
by deadduck
She seems to take herself awfully seriously


Also, never trust someone who tweets more than twice a day

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:49 am
by Wilderbeast
Clare Curran. Jesus Christ has there been a more incompetent Minister? Ever?

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:07 am
by kiweez
Wilderbeast wrote:Clare Curran. Jesus Christ has there been a more incompetent Minister? Ever?
Just....um..er...ah...what I mean...um...OIA....

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:14 am
by grouch
Wilderbeast wrote:Clare Curran. Jesus Christ has there been a more incompetent Minister? Ever?
uuhm , the entire Gnat front bench 2008-17.

:nod:

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:25 am
by Fat Old Git
So, we're not doubling our refugee quota it would seem as Winnie is a against it. Even though we've invested 14 million in expanding the infrastructure? It that what I caught a glimpse of on the new this evening?

But we're probably going to make evil landlords put heating into bedrooms. Which tenants can then leave turned off so they don't get a big power bill.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:49 am
by JB1981
kiweez wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:Clare Curran. Jesus Christ has there been a more incompetent Minister? Ever?
Just....um..er...ah...what I mean...um...OIA....
You paraphrased it well ....
To the best of my recollection, um, ah, ah, I haven't, um, I haven't used my, um I've answered um OIA, ah, ah, OIA responses and personal, um and parliamentary questions correctly and to the best of my recollection, um, ah, you know, that, that has, that's what I've done.
Any confidence she had in herself must be well and truly gone.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:53 am
by Wilderbeast
She should resign. I feel sorry for her but she’s clearly not up to it.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:32 am
by Tehui
JB1981 wrote:
kiweez wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:Clare Curran. Jesus Christ has there been a more incompetent Minister? Ever?
Just....um..er...ah...what I mean...um...OIA....
You paraphrased it well ....
To the best of my recollection, um, ah, ah, I haven't, um, I haven't used my, um I've answered um OIA, ah, ah, OIA responses and personal, um and parliamentary questions correctly and to the best of my recollection, um, ah, you know, that, that has, that's what I've done.
Any confidence she had in herself must be well and truly gone.
That was absolutely painful to watch.