NZ Politics Thread

Wilderbeast · Post by **Wilderbeast** » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:36 pm

JB1981 wrote:We sold our house and I then lived with my inlaws for a year while we built. I sometimes wished I was homeless but didn't realise by that definition I technically was.

There are two definitions. One used in determining the housing shortage, one for those slumming it on the streets. Very different measures though not mutually exclusive.

Edit - if you are building then you wouldn’t qualify as you’re not actively “looking”. I think this is how it works.

deadduck · Post by **deadduck** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:08 am

eugenius wrote:More examples of that famous empathy of the hard right .

There are plenty of political scientists out there, even those from the left, who would argue that being motivated by empathy in politics is not necessarily good and in many cases is a bad thing

booji boy · Post by **booji boy** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:08 am

eugenius wrote:More examples of that famous empathy of the hard right .

Hard right?

Wilderbeast · Post by **Wilderbeast** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:05 am

deadduck wrote:
eugenius wrote:More examples of that famous empathy of the hard right .
There are plenty of political scientists out there, even those from the left, who would argue that being motivated by empathy in politics is not necessarily good and in many cases is a bad thing

Yes, politicians abusing pharmac is a good example.

deadduck · Post by **deadduck** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:13 am

booji boy wrote:
eugenius wrote:More examples of that famous empathy of the hard right .
Hard right?

It's called egocentric projection. Eug assumes most people share his world view because he is normal. Everyone does it to some extent. It's why he calls moderates "hard right", because he doesn't recognise his own far left values as anything other than somewhere near the middle.

UncleFB · Post by **UncleFB** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:01 am

deadduck wrote:
booji boy wrote:
eugenius wrote:More examples of that famous empathy of the hard right .
Hard right?
It's called egocentric projection. Eug assumes most people share his world view because he is normal. Everyone does it to some extent. It's why he calls moderates "hard right", because he doesn't recognise his own far left values as anything other than somewhere near the middle.

Now you're being as stupid as he was.

deadduck · Post by **deadduck** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:21 am

UncleFB · Post by **UncleFB** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:47 am

deadduck wrote:

eugenius · Post by **eugenius** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:17 am

I would put Sonny most definitely on the further right of the political spectrum wouldn’t you ?

And tho our resident Mr neutral DD might pretend , he’s an ACT supporter and unceasing apologist for all things National at the expense of any other perspective.

As a moderate social Democrat I’m probably closer to the middle than either of them , which is really saying something.

deadduck · Post by **deadduck** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:09 am

I am not an ACT supporter

Whatever gave you that impression

Hareaway · Post by **Hareaway** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:26 am

The middle ... good lord

Gordon Bennett · Post by **Gordon Bennett** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:35 am

Let's have a battle for who can claim the centre ground. Any nominees? FOG or Wilderbeast seem most centric to me, but the centre is always different depending on the beholder.

If not, let's make a political spectrum with the representatives here.

deadduck · Post by **deadduck** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:23 am

We can always do the old political compass

Even though it seems to place the NZ parties way too far right. No way I should be sitting next to the Greens. I'd hate to see what kind of psycho answers you'd have to put in to get close to where ACT are

Gordon Bennett · Post by **Gordon Bennett** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:35 am

Yeah, nah. That doesn't look right. Far too left-leaning the results on the old political compass. I come out as far left as you can be and about half way to Libertarian. I do not believe I'm further left than Hone Harawira or Marama Davidson.

deadduck · Post by **deadduck** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:18 am

There's a real chance that entire site has been set up in an attempt to convince undecided voters to vote for left wing groups. This kind of social engineering is more common than ever these days.

eugenius · Post by **eugenius** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:22 am

Classic -

Kahu · Post by **Kahu** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:44 pm

maxbox wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I suspect chloe has enviable time management skills. She has certainly packed in a lot in a small space of time. Her simple but elegant dress sense suggests she has that rare ability of being naturally organised. I think she joined the wrong party but it got her straight into parliament. I could see her switching to Labour one day. Future pm material possibly.

Golly is dopey as fck but very entertaining. Probably a stayer too.
Despite being patronising as fudge I think you're right on Swarbrick being future PM material. I think James Shaw sees this in her, and it's why she was bumped up the list and she's been pushed to the front a lot. She will likely be loyal and only switch if the Greens go down, which isn't unlikely. She was talked up as a possible leader during the Turei brain explosion saga.
Yeah piss off mate, she is a fcuking Yank

who is a yank?

kiweez · Post by **kiweez** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:55 pm

Kahu wrote:
maxbox wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
I suspect chloe has enviable time management skills. She has certainly packed in a lot in a small space of time. Her simple but elegant dress sense suggests she has that rare ability of being naturally organised. I think she joined the wrong party but it got her straight into parliament. I could see her switching to Labour one day. Future pm material possibly.

Golly is dopey as fck but very entertaining. Probably a stayer too.
Despite being patronising as fudge I think you're right on Swarbrick being future PM material. I think James Shaw sees this in her, and it's why she was bumped up the list and she's been pushed to the front a lot. She will likely be loyal and only switch if the Greens go down, which isn't unlikely. She was talked up as a possible leader during the Turei brain explosion saga.
Yeah piss off mate, she is a fcuking Yank
who is a yank?

Regarding Greens, Julie-Anne Genter is American born, but Swarbrick is kiwi-as.

Kahu · Post by **Kahu** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:36 am

Yeah Chloe is a born n bred Aucklander as far as I was aware but didn't see anything regarding JAGuar???

Loving the fuel tax attacks but also loving how Taxinda just glosses over everything like a consummate professional which leads me to think she needs a new moniker, like...Teflon Cindy

UncleFB · Post by **UncleFB** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:40 am

Kahu wrote:Yeah Chloe is a born n bred Aucklander as far as I was aware but didn't see anything regarding JAGuar???

Loving the fuel tax attacks but also loving how Taxinda just glosses over everything like a consummate professional which leads me to think she needs a new moniker, like...Teflon Cindy

You can't just use the monikers that Key had (although, there's probably not any new ones left).

Kahu · Post by **Kahu** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:31 am

UncleFB wrote:
Kahu wrote:Yeah Chloe is a born n bred Aucklander as far as I was aware but didn't see anything regarding JAGuar???

Loving the fuel tax attacks but also loving how Taxinda just glosses over everything like a consummate professional which leads me to think she needs a new moniker, like...Teflon Cindy
You can't just use the monikers that Key had (although, there's probably not any new ones left).

I think despite their obvious differences the two are very comparable but you are right and I guess Taxcinda is so apt

Dark · Post by **Dark** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:27 am

Well it hasn't been a year yet and we are back to Clark and her mandatory lightbulbs and shower heads

Labour to make all alcohol producers to put on pregnancy warning labels

Apparently there may still be a deaf, blind hermit woman living on a Catlins sand dune who hasn't heard drinking while pregnant is dodgy

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/nz- ... ls-alcohol

booji boy · Post by **booji boy** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:55 am

eugenius wrote:Classic -

Oh dear.

booji boy · Post by **booji boy** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:56 am

eugenius wrote:Classic -

Please!

Begbie · Post by **Begbie** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:32 am

deadduck wrote:There's a real chance that entire site has been set up in an attempt to convince undecided voters to vote for left wing groups. This kind of social engineering is more common than ever these days.

Yeah too funny. Although you do realise the young nats are mobilised everytime Cindy smiles, to lambast social media and to influence those who can’t think for themselves. Also Crooked Judy’s dealings with Cameron Slater too.

deadduck · Post by **deadduck** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:58 pm

Yep. As I said it happens pretty often without many people realising it. Half the NZ political memes doing the rounds on facebook last election were directly funded by political parties. Labour spent a lot of money on "Backing the Kiwi meme" as well as the Young Nats. Claiming the centre ground by convincing people the opposition is extreme is typical campaigning
But I don't really get why a so-called neutral political compass website would have so heavily skewed NZ's political parties to the right without some kind of agenda. NZ is well known internationally as having one of the most liberal governments in the world.
The other explanation is sheer incompetence.

Wilderbeast · Post by **Wilderbeast** » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:44 pm

I think it’s sheer incompetence. I don’t see act as more authoritarian than national. Most people assume they are though as they think they’re just a more extreme version of national.

Tehui · Post by **Tehui** » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:21 pm

Dark wrote:Well it hasn't been a year yet and we are back to Clark and her mandatory lightbulbs and shower heads

Labour to make all alcohol producers to put on pregnancy warning labels

Apparently there may still be a deaf, blind hermit woman living on a Catlins sand dune who hasn't heard drinking while pregnant is dodgy

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/nz- ... ls-alcohol

It's called a Public Health message. If disseminating public information is going to reduce the prevalence of fetal alcohol disorder in NZ which would reduce costs to the State, why would you complain?

grouch · Post by **grouch** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:54 am

deadduck wrote:Yep. As I said it happens pretty often without many people realising it. Half the NZ political memes doing the rounds on facebook last election were directly funded by political parties. Labour spent a lot of money on "Backing the Kiwi meme" as well as the Young Nats. Claiming the centre ground by convincing people the opposition is extreme is typical campaigning
But I don't really get why a so-called neutral political compass website would have so heavily skewed NZ's political parties to the right without some kind of agenda. NZ is well known internationally as having one of the most neo-liberal governments in the world.
The other explanation is sheer incompetence.

fixed.

grouch · Post by **grouch** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:14 am

deadduck wrote:We can always do the old political compass

Even though it seems to place the NZ parties way too far right. No way I should be sitting next to the Greens. I'd hate to see what kind of psycho answers you'd have to put in to get close to where ACT are

The terms "Left" and "Right" originated in the debating forums in post- Bastille storming Revolutionary Paris.

The "Right" in theses forums were radicals who rejected the existing status quo - ie the absolute power of the Bourbon monarchy and the excessive power and wealth of the church , but who were conservative enough to doubt the wisdom of regicide and the total annihalation of the Catholic faith . They almost univerally consisted of Bourgeois and the dreaded petit-Bourgeois.

They were all universally far to the "left" of any NZ political parties and individual MP's.

The neo-liberal agenda has significantly shifted all our political parties to the "Right"

To my mind the only of Left-centre pollies in our present parliament would be the Maori caucus of Nania Mahuta, Willie Jackson & co and even then the socialist rating , for want of better words , is obscured by their unique perspective of the people they represent.

Wilderbeast · Post by **Wilderbeast** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:45 am

You think they are further left than any green mp? E.g. Marama Davidson?

Kahu · Post by **Kahu** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:11 am

I would have Greens as far more authoritarian. Just because they want dak legalised doesn't make them libertarian.

deadduck · Post by **deadduck** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:19 am

So how come most people arrive near the centre of their compass?
Are the majority raging leftists and just don't know it?
Is the survey broken? I think this is probably it. The questions are too simple

Actually tbf I've stated several times I'd probably vote for the Greens if they weren't so economically illiterate

Wilderbeast · Post by **Wilderbeast** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:36 am

James knows his shit. The rest are a bit more dicey.

guy smiley · Post by **guy smiley** » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:01 am

Joyce, from the Good Economic Management branch of the Country Women’s Association, would have us believe the 11bn hole is still there in the budget.

That’s good polo skills. Chutzpah.

MungoMan · Post by **MungoMan** » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:15 am

guy smiley wrote:Joyce, from the Good Economic Management branch of the Country Women’s Association, would have us believe the 11bn hole is still there in the budget.

That's a...largish hole. Is everyone else too embarassed to talk about it?

guy smiley · Post by **guy smiley** » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:24 am

MungoMan wrote:
guy smiley wrote:Joyce, from the Good Economic Management branch of the Country Women’s Association, would have us believe the 11bn hole is still there in the budget.
That's a...largish hole. Is everyone else too embarassed to talk about it?

All Blacks!
Trump!!
Late night American TV!!!
Taxcinda... not enough exclamation points on my phone for that last one.

kiweez · Post by **kiweez** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:10 am

Meanwhile, in the least surprising news department...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... ak-inquiry

Simon Bridges points finger at Jami-Lee Ross in expenses leak inquiry

National may move to suspend MP Jami-Lee Ross after an inquiry into who leaked leader Simon Bridges expenses' found he was the most likely culprit.

At a press conference on Monday, Bridges said the caucus would consider the MP's future on Tuesday.

Dark · Post by **Dark** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:16 am

kiweez wrote:Meanwhile, in the least surprising news department...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... ak-inquiry

Simon Bridges points finger at Jami-Lee Ross in expenses leak inquiry

National may move to suspend MP Jami-Lee Ross after an inquiry into who leaked leader Simon Bridges expenses' found he was the most likely culprit.

At a press conference on Monday, Bridges said the caucus would consider the MP's future on Tuesday.

Pretty funny to watch

Wilderbeast · Post by **Wilderbeast** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:53 am

This stinks of Collins. Jamie thinks he has dirt on Simon. Well well well, today got interesting.