NZ Politics Thread

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merlin the happy pig
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by merlin the happy pig »

Kahu wrote:I would have Greens as far more authoritarian. Just because they want dak legalised doesn't make them libertarian.
Perhaps people have made the following (il)logical leaps?
libertarian = liberal = progressive.

Presumably authoritarian doesn't include wanting to interfere with property rights, compulsory unionism, tighter controls on land use, racial and gender quotas in employment.

ACT who are economically liberal and as close as we get in NZ to libertarians are seen as more authoritarian than National WTF?

Perhaps no one actually has the faintest felching idea what the word means?
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Fat Old Git
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Wilderbeast wrote:This stinks of Collins. Jamie thinks he has dirt on Simon. Well well well, today got interesting.
Disappointing is what it is. I thought for once we might end up with a strong opposition instead of the usual shell shocked disinterested rabble that follows a change in government. But they seem to be self destructing.

Maybe one day before I die we'll end up with a strong government and a strong opposition.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Ardern is brainier than I gave her credit for

Well her advisers probably

Way to stick the knife into Nationals bad day

"Support us or you don't care"

:lol: :lol:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... rices-bill
Santa
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

Dark wrote:Ardern is brainier than I gave her credit for

Well her advisers probably

Way to stick the knife into Nationals bad day

"Support us or you don't care"

:lol: :lol:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... rices-bill
Is the the petrol prices bill where, whilst moaning about the price of petrol, she forgot to mention the 15cents a litre that has been added as tax in the last 13 months? Some of it by her very own government?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12141559
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

S2
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Maniototo Man
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Maniototo Man »

It's ok Simon. Paula has (*) your back.

* a target on
eugenius

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by eugenius »

Poor old Simon , what a shit show !

Let alone the thought of Paula as opposition leader - 🙄
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Tehui
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Tehui »

kiweez wrote:Meanwhile, in the least surprising news department...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... ak-inquiry
Simon Bridges points finger at Jami-Lee Ross in expenses leak inquiry
National may move to suspend MP Jami-Lee Ross after an inquiry into who leaked leader Simon Bridges expenses' found he was the most likely culprit.

At a press conference on Monday, Bridges said the caucus would consider the MP's future on Tuesday.
Image
What a complete shambles. This is the sort of behaviour that resulted in Labour losing support 10 or so years ago. I never thought I'd see the National party implode like this.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by eugenius »

Trouble is they really feel born to rule , and that last election loss was unexpected and gutting .

Now left with the unholy realisation that they might very well be sitting out of government for two terms they are eating their own !
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Auckman
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Auckman »

Well, that escalated quickly. I don't think even in the days of Cunliffe did the Labour combatants wage twitter wars with each other.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Auckman wrote:Well, that escalated quickly. I don't think even in the days of Cunliffe did the Labour combatants wage twitter wars with each other.
TBF it isn't a huge amount different to Labour's Chris Carter fiasco

Minus a Clark to rescue his arse and gift him a job at the UN
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Yeah but...

Emails.
Birth certificates.
But but butbutbutbutbbbbbbuttttttt

You’re a rabble.
Give in and let all your bitter despair out now. That way you’ve still got a couple of years to try and regather some dignity.
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grouch
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by grouch »

Fat Old Git wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:This stinks of Collins. Jamie thinks he has dirt on Simon. Well well well, today got interesting.
Disappointing . But they seem to be self destructing.
Inevitable, I'd have thought.

The 19th century mindset that pre-dominates in the Gnats will only last a limited time in the harsh light of reality that having no power , no captive audience and nobody lining up to stroke your ego , brings.

It could get really nasty too , they're such a shallow , venal lot.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

guy smiley wrote:Yeah but...

Emails.
Birth certificates.
But but butbutbutbutbbbbbbuttttttt

You’re a rabble.
Give in and let all your bitter despair out now. That way you’ve still got a couple of years to try and regather some dignity.
The chances of Labour not getting a second term are close to zero.

It is very rare NZ govts don't.

It would be the biggest choke since Goliath's mate said "Goliath. Do you mind beating up that wee dude Dave for me?"
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

grouch wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:This stinks of Collins. Jamie thinks he has dirt on Simon. Well well well, today got interesting.
Disappointing . But they seem to be self destructing.
Inevitable, I'd have thought.

The 19th century mindset that pre-dominates in the Gnats will only last a limited time in the harsh light of reality that having no power , no captive audience and nobody lining up to stroke your ego , brings.

It could get really nasty too , they're such a shallow , venal lot.
All partys get nasty when they are turfed out

Look at Labour's 9 years and 6 leaders in opposition
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JB1981
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by JB1981 »

It's already past the point of Ross being able to go quietly.

Simon Bridges hasn't handled things well, even the announcement that Ross was taking a break was weird, with multiple references to his personal issues being "embarrassing". If it likely wasn't going to go well, that type of comment would seem pretty inflammatory.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

Bridges doesn't look at all like a long term solution there.
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booji boy
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Santa wrote:Bridges doesn't look at all like a long term solution there.
No he doesn't. I'm a National voter but the guy is nauseating. If he's still leader in 2020 and we maintain approx 44% of the vote where do we go from there? Will it take a collapse in support to get rid of him?
Santa
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

booji boy wrote:
Santa wrote:Bridges doesn't look at all like a long term solution there.
No he doesn't. I'm a National voter but the guy is nauseating. If he's still leader in 2020 and we maintain approx 44% of the vote where do we go from there? Will it take a collapse in support to get rid of him?
Recordings of him encouraging JLR to do illegal things would do it.
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booji boy
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Santa wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Santa wrote:Bridges doesn't look at all like a long term solution there.
No he doesn't. I'm a National voter but the guy is nauseating. If he's still leader in 2020 and we maintain approx 44% of the vote where do we go from there? Will it take a collapse in support to get rid of him?
Recordings of him encouraging JLR to do illegal things would do it.
Yes of course. :D

Collins for leader?
Santa
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

booji boy wrote:
Santa wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Santa wrote:Bridges doesn't look at all like a long term solution there.
No he doesn't. I'm a National voter but the guy is nauseating. If he's still leader in 2020 and we maintain approx 44% of the vote where do we go from there? Will it take a collapse in support to get rid of him?
Recordings of him encouraging JLR to do illegal things would do it.
Yes of course. :D

Collins for leader?
I can't see that working. National have to do a bit more than be incredibly negative about Labour I suggest. But only a bit.
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Auckman
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Auckman »

"I believe Simon Bridges is a corrupt individual"

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12143114

Jami-Lee Ross is currently talking live to the media absolutely ripping into Bridges and accusing him of corruption and illegal electoral donations...

while the National caucus is in meeting.

This is nuclear levels of crazy :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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UncleFB
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

Tehui wrote:
kiweez wrote:Meanwhile, in the least surprising news department...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... ak-inquiry
Simon Bridges points finger at Jami-Lee Ross in expenses leak inquiry
National may move to suspend MP Jami-Lee Ross after an inquiry into who leaked leader Simon Bridges expenses' found he was the most likely culprit.

At a press conference on Monday, Bridges said the caucus would consider the MP's future on Tuesday.
Image
What a complete shambles. This is the sort of behaviour that resulted in Labour losing support 10 or so years ago. I never thought I'd see the National party implode like this.
Really? I thought it was always a matter of time once Key (and less so English) were gone?
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Auckman
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Auckman »

Ross is goooone, resigning his party membership and his seat.....

but is standing as an independent for Botany in the by-election. :lol:
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RuggaBugga
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by RuggaBugga »

Man he's is absolutely swinging for the fences :lol:

If he has corroborating info, Bridges is in deep trouble.

It's going to be interesting when caucus emerge.
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Auckman
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Auckman »

Australian politicians would be proud of this house-burning :lol:
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Maniototo Man
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Maniototo Man »

My political memories go back to the early '70s and I can't remember ever hearing an MP - especially not such a senior one - unload on their leader to this degree. :shock: I don't think even Peters poured petrol like this on the fire when he left National in the '90s.
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Gordon Bennett
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Gordon Bennett »

Young National MPs seem to be making a habit of secretly recording conversations. All very bizarre.
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True Blue
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by True Blue »

Quick snap of the media booth at parliament buildings.

Image
Wilderbeast
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wilderbeast »

:lol:
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grouch
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by grouch »

Dark wrote:
grouch wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:This stinks of Collins. Jamie thinks he has dirt on Simon. Well well well, today got interesting.
Disappointing . But they seem to be self destructing.
Inevitable, I'd have thought.

The 19th century mindset that pre-dominates in the Gnats will only last a limited time in the harsh light of reality that having no power , no captive audience and nobody lining up to stroke your ego , brings.

It could get really nasty too , they're such a shallow , venal lot.
All partys get nasty when they are turfed out

Look at Labour's 9 years and 6 leaders in opposition
:lol:
Hounded constantly by the Gnats dirty trick machine .

BUT that multiheaded monster seems to have escaped it's [light] bondage restraints.

I can't actually recall an opposition leader being outed for illegal campaign funding transactions. prior to today.

Hopefully the entitled 44% are going to get a very clear picture of how dirty and how beholdin' to shadowey chinese donors , their beloved Blue Brand really is.

Nice distraction ,though , from the criminal machinations of this poisonous #1 Cherry Glade Trough coordinator.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/107843 ... xamination
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Enzedder
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

This won't make a blind bit of difference to the poll figures. (But man, it is funny to watch)

National could be led by a duck (they probably are) and still get their 44%. What they need is a leader who can bring in the swing voters and put together a coalition and right now they don't have anyone capable of that.
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grouch
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by grouch »

Enzedder wrote:This won't make a blind bit of difference to the poll figures. (But man, it is funny to watch)

National could be led by a duck (they probably are) and still get their 44%. What they need is a leader who can bring in the swing voters and put together a coalition and right now they don't have anyone capable of that.
It was suggested to me that Bridges was that guy.
Young & Opposite gender to Taxinda.
All he had to do was stay calm and [say] that they'd legalise cannabis when Labour inevitably ducks & weaves around it again.
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

So apparently Winston wandered out to a press scrum, played them Burning Bridges on his phone, thanked them for their time and wandered back into whatever it was he was doing. Downloading mp3 files, most likely.
merlin the happy pig
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by merlin the happy pig »

guy smiley wrote:So apparently Winston wandered out to a press scrum, played them Burning Bridges on his phone, thanked them for their time and wandered back into whatever it was he was doing. Downloading mp3 files, most likely.
Recipes for Whisky cocktails seems more his speed.
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grouch
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by grouch »

A bit of background on the nice fella Simon Bridges didn't accept money from:

To be fair , he's not the only bad banana in the bunch.

https://croakingcassandra.com/
It is a little hard to believe that someone who established himself here, clearly has considerable resources at his disposal, but can’t even be bothered learning English (he isn’t some struggling 80 year old on a parent visa, say), has the interests of New Zealand primarily at heart, when liaising with or donating to, political parties. Do you really not have to know even conversational English nowadays to become a citizen? Perhaps when he returns to Auckland someone could ask him, through a translator, about whether he has anything negative to say about the brutal regime whose diplomats he hangs out with, and whose foreign policy initiatives he seems to have helped advance?

And, of course, if this particular case puts the spotlight on National, it was Labour/New Zealand First who awarded the man’s honour, and when Labour was last in government there was the infamous case of the award of citizenship to a donor, against the strong recommendation of officials. And, look, the minister involved is a Cabinet minister today.

National seems to have been particularly effective at tapping the ethnic Chinese donor “market” in recent years. They were in government. One can only imagine how the Labour fundraisers are now looking at the possibilities, and that any such approaches are likely to fall on receptive ears. Is Labour willing to resist the temptation? Probably not judging by the willingness of the party hierarchy to praise the CCP and Xi Jinping. Oh, and there was the large donation to Phil Goff’s mayoral campaign from the mainland.

A few months ago, I reported this from a (Chatham House rules) seminar I was invited to

There was clear unease, from people in a good position to know, about the role of large donations to political parties from ethnic minority populations – often from cultures without the political tradition here (in theory, if not always observed in practice in recent decades) that donations are not about purchasing influence. One person observed that we had very much the same issues Australia was grappling with (although our formal laws are tighter than the Australian ones). Of ethnic Chinese donations in particular, the description “truckloads” was used, with a sense that the situation is almost “inherently unhealthy”. With membership numbers in political parties dropping, and political campaigning getting no less expensive, this ethnic contribution (and associated influence seeking) issue led several participants to note that they had come round to favouring serious consideration of state funding of political parties. I remain sceptical of that approach – especially the risk of locking in the position of the established parties, or locking out parties the establishment doesn’t like – but it was sobering to hear.

What is the issue? It isn’t that New Zealand citizens, of whatever ethnic background, shouldn’t be able to donate to political parties. The concern in the PRC context is that (a) the donors themselves are often dependent (their own businesses) on continued access to the PRC, and often have families back there exposed to the (not very) tender mercies of the party-State, (b) the extent of PRC Embassy and related United Front organisation influence on the local ethnic Chinese community, and (c) the not-unrelated risk of the flow of donations drying up should the recipient party ever do or say anything upsetting to Beijing. The PRC regime is of a character, and determination, not like the home countries of most of our other migrants.

Yikun Zhang himself seems almost peripheral to Jami-Lee Ross’s concerns/allegations, as reported so far. But I hope that the incidential disclosure of his name, and apparent close relations with the National Party (in particular) will help to spark a more honest conversation about the flow of Chinese money to political parties, in the context of a more realistic assessment of the nature of the regime, its methods, its interest. And, on the other hand, a renewed demand for a much greater degree of integrity – a willingness to say no, just occasionally, to stand for the values the underpinned our political system for a long time – among our politicians and political processes. It wasn’t that hard, in the end, to get rid of Jami-Lee Ross. What about Jian Yang?

Sadly, we can expect more silence, more complicity, and not just from the National Party, but from every single one of our parties and their leaders.
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True Blue
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by True Blue »

Become a citizen without even being able to speak one of the official languages. What the fvck. NZ Citizenship for sale it seems, but we already knew that.
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

True Blue wrote:Become a citizen without even being able to speak one of the official languages. What the fvck. NZ Citizenship for sale it seems, but we already knew that.
It strikes me as a really good example of everything that is wrong with NZ.

Sell out, then adopt moral high ground. It’s f**king dumb.
Wilderbeast
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wilderbeast »

Croaking Cassandra? Isn’t she that mad as batshit commentator covered in dirty politics?
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Perhaps this is more palatable?

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/10/16/n ... /palatable...?
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