NZ Politics Thread

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deadduck
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by deadduck »

Wilderbeast wrote:
deadduck wrote:The only Chinese MP on the National list is Jian Yang way down at #34. Whatever influence they're "buying" it doesn't seem to be very much. We'll see again in 2020 but unless there's more than a couple in the top 30 it would hardly be out of the ordinary.

What is concerning is the illegal and deliberate splitting up of the donations in order to hide them from the electoral commission. If that is indeed what's happened it's quite serious stuff. That's the bigger issue here.
Have you missed alll the reporting on Chinese influence in the Pacific and Jian Yang’s role in all this?

No I haven't missed it I'm just yet to see any real analysis of why it's something we should be concerned about other than what amounts to low level xenophobia
brat
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by brat »

deadduck wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:
deadduck wrote:The only Chinese MP on the National list is Jian Yang way down at #34. Whatever influence they're "buying" it doesn't seem to be very much. We'll see again in 2020 but unless there's more than a couple in the top 30 it would hardly be out of the ordinary.

What is concerning is the illegal and deliberate splitting up of the donations in order to hide them from the electoral commission. If that is indeed what's happened it's quite serious stuff. That's the bigger issue here.
Have you missed alll the reporting on Chinese influence in the Pacific and Jian Yang’s role in all this?

No I haven't missed it I'm just yet to see any real analysis of why it's something we should be concerned about other than what amounts to low level xenophobia
Yes..having been away for the last month and watching from afar the Nz media and the idiots that comment on it

From ardern and the baby’s in nyc (when really no one gives a Fuk) to the latest Chinese xenophobia it’s all rather embarrassing
TheDocForgotHisLogon
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by TheDocForgotHisLogon »

brat wrote:From ardern and the baby’s in nyc (when really no one gives a Fuk) to the latest Chinese xenophobia it’s all rather embarrassing
It's not a couple of months for us to be proud of. The only saving grace is that relative to everyone else we're still in OK nick - US, Canada, UK, France, Germany, Italy, STRAYA! - they're all proper f**ked in terms of their politics. We're only doing an Edinburgh festival thing where national politics meets Flight Of The Concords...
eugenius

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by eugenius »

Bennett for opposition leader ?


😂😳
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Mr Mike
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Mr Mike »

The Deemed Income proposals from the Tax Working Group sounds an interesting proposition. Perhaps the breathing space created by this National infighting will give the Coalition an opportunity to be a little more aggressive on housing. The FX has been trending positively but property values remain stubbornly high.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Seneca of the Night wrote:Ross now getting #Metoo'd.

What a cretin.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12144375
Yep

Just when you think things can't get more train wrecky, it get's more train wrecky

The guy sounds like an utter prick, whether he has a point with his ranting or not

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/10/17/2 ... -speak-out
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booji boy
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Mr Mike wrote:The Deemed Income proposals from the Tax Working Group sounds an interesting proposition. Perhaps the breathing space created by this National infighting will give the Coalition an opportunity to be a little more aggressive on housing. The FX has been trending positively but property values remain stubbornly high.
Seriously? Is Gareth Morgan on the tax working group?

So my retired parents who own a Bach in the Coromandel that they have never earned a penny off, just poured money into for the benefit of their family and grandkids should now pay an additional $12,500 per annum on top of the rates, insurance and maintenance costs they already pay.

They can't afford that and would sell the Bach in a heartbeat if such a tax was introduced. And that won't help the housing crisis as very few people want to live in this remote area of the Coromandel.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/107854 ... heir-dream
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Ted.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

Dark wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:What do I mean? That the Labour Party is built around the premise of union participation. A Labour voter can hardly be shocked by union representation. National voters on the other hand could be somewhat surprised by the fact that special interest groups can be promoted with a very minor donation in the grand scheme of things.

These are not equal or comparable issues.
Unions are still a special interest group and not that many people even belong to them anymore
For pities sake, stop it. :blush:
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Ted.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

booji boy wrote:
Mr Mike wrote:The Deemed Income proposals from the Tax Working Group sounds an interesting proposition. Perhaps the breathing space created by this National infighting will give the Coalition an opportunity to be a little more aggressive on housing. The FX has been trending positively but property values remain stubbornly high.
Seriously? Is Gareth Morgan on the tax working group?

So my retired parents who own a Bach in the Coromandel that they have never earned a penny off, just poured money into for the benefit of their family and grandkids should now pay an additional $12,500 per annum on top of the rates, insurance and maintenance costs they already pay.

They can't afford that and would sell the Bach in a heartbeat if such a tax was introduced. And that won't help the housing crisis as very few people want to live in this remote area of the Coromandel.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/107854 ... heir-dream
Seems a bit harsh. Baches are not something that should necessarily be equated with excess. Now a beach house!

We have a problem.
Last edited by Ted. on Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Ted. wrote:
Dark wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:What do I mean? That the Labour Party is built around the premise of union participation. A Labour voter can hardly be shocked by union representation. National voters on the other hand could be somewhat surprised by the fact that special interest groups can be promoted with a very minor donation in the grand scheme of things.

These are not equal or comparable issues.
Unions are still a special interest group and not that many people even belong to them anymore
For pities sake, stop it. :blush:

It ain't the 20th century anymore Ted

NZ Union membership - 17%
eugenius

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by eugenius »

Employers of course having no recourse or special interest groups.

Please .
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

eugenius wrote:Employers of course having no recourse or special interest groups.

Please .

Where did I say they didn't?

I don't have a problem with unions

But they are just another special interest group, like any other
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Ted.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

Dark wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Dark wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:What do I mean? That the Labour Party is built around the premise of union participation. A Labour voter can hardly be shocked by union representation. National voters on the other hand could be somewhat surprised by the fact that special interest groups can be promoted with a very minor donation in the grand scheme of things.

These are not equal or comparable issues.
Unions are still a special interest group and not that many people even belong to them anymore
For pities sake, stop it. :blush:

It ain't the 20th century anymore Ted

NZ Union membership - 17%
You seem top have a propensity for misconstruing the written word. :?
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Ted. wrote:
Dark wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Dark wrote:
Gordon Bennett wrote:What do I mean? That the Labour Party is built around the premise of union participation. A Labour voter can hardly be shocked by union representation. National voters on the other hand could be somewhat surprised by the fact that special interest groups can be promoted with a very minor donation in the grand scheme of things.

These are not equal or comparable issues.
Unions are still a special interest group and not that many people even belong to them anymore
For pities sake, stop it. :blush:

It ain't the 20th century anymore Ted

NZ Union membership - 17%
You seem top have a propensity for misconstruing the written word. :?
Well your comment was a bit hazy

I made two points so

You were saying I should be embarrassed because either they aren't a special interest group, or there isn't hardly anyone who is a member

They are a special interest group, so I plumbed for you commenting on the later

My comment that they have hardly any members

17% is hardly any members
eugenius

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by eugenius »

It is ?

That’s still many thousands .
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Fat Old Git
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:
brat wrote:From ardern and the baby’s in nyc (when really no one gives a Fuk) to the latest Chinese xenophobia it’s all rather embarrassing
It's not a couple of months for us to be proud of. The only saving grace is that relative to everyone else we're still in OK nick - US, Canada, UK, France, Germany, Italy, STRAYA! - they're all proper f**ked in terms of their politics. We're only doing an Edinburgh festival thing where national politics meets Flight Of The Concords...
I think that might be the best description of our political situation that I have ever seen.
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Dark wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Dark wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Dark wrote: Unions are still a special interest group and not that many people even belong to them anymore
For pities sake, stop it. :blush:

It ain't the 20th century anymore Ted

NZ Union membership - 17%
You seem top have a propensity for misconstruing the written word. :?
Well your comment was a bit hazy

I made two points so

You were saying I should be embarrassed because either they aren't a special interest group, or there isn't hardly anyone who is a member

They are a special interest group, so I plumbed for you commenting on the later

My comment that they have hardly any members

17% is hardly any members
You know how it’s called the Labour Party?

You ever sorta....

THOUGHT about that, at all?
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Ted. wrote: You know how it’s called the Labour Party?

You ever sorta....

THOUGHT about that, at all?
Of course

They used to be about workers and unions

Not so much now, because they realise unions are becoming more and more irrelevant

So now they are more into giving away free money universally and demanding more and more taxes
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Dark wrote:
Ted. wrote: You know how it’s called the Labour Party?

You ever sorta....

THOUGHT about that, at all?
Of course

They used to be about workers and unions

Not so much now, because they realise unions are becoming more and more irrelevant

So now they are more into giving away free money universally and demanding more and more taxes
Free money equals taxes now.

You idiot.
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Ted.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

Dark wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Dark wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Dark wrote:
Unions are still a special interest group and not that many people even belong to them anymore
For pities sake, stop it. :blush:

It ain't the 20th century anymore Ted

NZ Union membership - 17%
You seem top have a propensity for misconstruing the written word. :?
Well your comment was a bit hazy

I made two points so

You were saying I should be embarrassed because either they aren't a special interest group, or there isn't hardly anyone who is a member

They are a special interest group, so I plumbed for you commenting on the later

My comment that they have hardly any members

17% is hardly any members
No, you have just leapt to the wrong conclusion, again. You're going down a rabbit hole arguing this and that, when that arguement was never presented to you. I hardly care and it doesn't matter in this context how many union members there are, so please stop banging your wee tin drum about it and have another look at what Gordon said.
Gordon Bennett wrote:What do I mean? That the Labour Party is built around the premise of union participation. A Labour voter can hardly be shocked by union representation. National voters on the other hand could be somewhat surprised by the fact that special interest groups can be promoted with a very minor donation in the grand scheme of things.

These are not equal or comparable issues.
Over the last several pages you've done this sort of thing in almost every post. So stop. Ok.
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terangi48
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by terangi48 »

Special interest groups = Labour Unions = Employer Federation = Law Society = Medical Practioners = Federated Farmers = Royal Society of Hairdressers = Educational Institute = & all the other the others that exist in NZ..........a certain noun "union" doesn't make it any different to "society", "federation" etc in purpose or in function........self interest..
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terangi48
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by terangi48 »

Back to the fracas of the day........world reaction to the mong crap going on.......

Image

I think that there is a lesson for everyone in all of this:

In today's world of electronics, those that think thoughts of any kind, are better to left them unsaid, as any listener can turn into a prick of gross proportion at anytime......
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AD345
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by AD345 »

There’s a Royal Society of hairdressers?
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grouch
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by grouch »

terangi48 wrote:Special interest groups = Labour Unions = Employer Federation = Law Society = Medical Practioners = Federated Farmers = Royal Society of Hairdressers = Educational Institute = & all the other the others that exist in NZ..........a certain noun "union" doesn't make it any different to "society", "federation" etc in purpose or in function........self interest..
You missed out Chinese Organised Crime and Politburo of the PRC...........

Oh that's right , they're not actually NZ Special interest groups , well not as we'd like to believe.
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terangi48
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by terangi48 »

Royal Society of Hairdressers......... Nah......made that one up......
eugenius

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by eugenius »

Royal guild perhaps ?

Of scissor makers ?
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terangi48
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by terangi48 »

........or New Year and Q B'Day honours! Jeepers $100,000 buys a Gong......wonder how much a knoghthood/damehood costs.......
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Ted.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Ted. »

eugenius wrote:Royal guild perhaps ?

Of scissor makers ?
Cutlers, or Master Cutlers.
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deadduck
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by deadduck »

These released text messages are another dud
Ross is looking more and more vindictive and unhinged with each passing day.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wilderbeast »

deadduck wrote:These released text messages are another dud
Ross is looking more and more vindictive and unhinged with each passing day.
He’s a plum of the highest order. The main damage he is doing now is people are wondering how the fudge this guy got so high within the party.
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kiweez
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by kiweez »

Brave lady...some interesting things to note here.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/nat ... assed-ross
A National Party candidate has spoken about a campaign of harassment by rogue MP Jami-Lee Ross which became so severe she sought medical help and intervention by the party hierarchy.
Manurewa candidate Katrina Bungard told the The New Zealand Herald Ross had harassed her in 2016 and 2017.
Some really interesting stuff here, as it goes against the grain of the current narrative being played out in the media about this specific case i.e. National covered it up, enabled his behaviour etc.
Bungard complained to the National Party - the organisation, not the political wing - which resulted in president Peter Goodfellow stepping in. The Herald understands National Party board member, and northern regional chairman, Andrew Hunt was also involved.

"They've called him in and he's got a serious talking to. He did back off after that."

Bungard said she believed the party had done what it could but it was difficult when the harassment included constant low-level incidents over which there was no physical evidence.

"Greg and Peter Goodfellow did what they could at the time given the evidence they had to go on. But it was one person's word against another. I've been a long-time supporter of the National Party and there was nothing they could do.

"I don't hold National responsible for his behaviour at all."

Bungard said deputy leader Paula Bennett had called during the week - and again this morning - to check on her and offer support.

"Simon, Paula - none of them knew about this. Paula has been really supportive."
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Speaking of vindictive, how would you describe the Nats attacks on Ross? :roll:

A school-kids being ganged up on by another group of school-kids. The only one coming out of this with credit is the f**king useless bitch from down south.
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grouch
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by grouch »

Enzedder wrote:Speaking of vindictive, how would you describe the Nats attacks on Ross? :roll:

A school-kids being ganged up on by another group of school-kids. The only one coming out of this with credit is the f**king useless bitch from down south.
I know that in general most of the other posters on this phred have me on ignore or exercise it personally , but one of the reasons I keep coming back here is because of the attitude the majority of posters have towards the National party.

The majority of people in the real world I know simply don't have or don't express a political opinion.

I do , but there's only one consistent aspect to it.

In my 64 years of rattling around the place I've only observed one consistent political fact in NZ.

Every Gnat government has systematically destroyed the economy , impoverished society in a variety ways both fiscal and cultural and done their best to ensure another generation of young will lose varying numbers fighting in someone else's wars.

Once upon a time , I was a Labour supporter , but their wholesale takeover by neo-Liberals put pay to that.

I've been more or less supportive of the centrist /left coalitions post MMP , mainly because the quality of MP's was better and the Select Committee process has worked better and resulted in some reasonably well thought out progressive legislation.

As I said , I keep coming back to this forum mainly to try and understand why the National party continues to enjoy alevel of support that I cannot comprehend

The events of the past week just confuse me more.

Why does anyone with an IQ above room temperature not see that the gnats are bunch of a*oles without conscience,without a defined policy or ideal , without a feasible plan for century 21 and are quite simply an example of all that is to be avoided in a parliamentary democracy.
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Tehui
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Tehui »

This is the sort of carry on that made the Labour Party lose support for years. It will be interesting to see whether the current National Party pantomime affects the polls.
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deadduck
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by deadduck »

Enzedder wrote:Speaking of vindictive, how would you describe the Nats attacks on Ross? :roll:

A school-kids being ganged up on by another group of school-kids. The only one coming out of this with credit is the f**king useless bitch from down south.
Indeed there's no better way to raise the public profile of an MP than to call them out as f**king useless in the national media
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

grouch wrote:
Enzedder wrote:Speaking of vindictive, how would you describe the Nats attacks on Ross? :roll:

A school-kids being ganged up on by another group of school-kids. The only one coming out of this with credit is the f**king useless bitch from down south.
I know that in general most of the other posters on this phred have me on ignore or exercise it personally , but one of the reasons I keep coming back here is because of the attitude the majority of posters have towards the National party.

The majority of people in the real world I know simply don't have or don't express a political opinion.

I do , but there's only one consistent aspect to it.

In my 64 years of rattling around the place I've only observed one consistent political fact in NZ.

Every Gnat government has systematically destroyed the economy , impoverished society in a variety ways both fiscal and cultural and done their best to ensure another generation of young will lose varying numbers fighting in someone else's wars.

Once upon a time , I was a Labour supporter , but their wholesale takeover by neo-Liberals put pay to that.

I've been more or less supportive of the centrist /left coalitions post MMP , mainly because the quality of MP's was better and the Select Committee process has worked better and resulted in some reasonably well thought out progressive legislation.

As I said , I keep coming back to this forum mainly to try and understand why the National party continues to enjoy alevel of support that I cannot comprehend

The events of the past week just confuse me more.

Why does anyone with an IQ above room temperature not see that the gnats are bunch of a*oles without conscience,without a defined policy or ideal , without a feasible plan for century 21 and are quite simply an example of all that is to be avoided in a parliamentary democracy.
Clearly a man of impeccable taste and judgement :thumbup:
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JB1981
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by JB1981 »

I think we all apply our own biases when the reality (particularly here where both major parties are fairly centrist) is that there are often only subtle differences between left and right.

I saw an image recently from David McCandless that made this point. I can't find an easily viewable one to post but a UK and US version are available online. I doubt there would be much difference if it was done here.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wilderbeast »

A few comments on the JLR saga. Some may be stolen from a smattering of commentators.

Firstly, all of National must stand united behind Bridges. You cannot, for one second, make it appear that this kind of behaviour will win you anything in politics. They must unite and shunt him out. His actions were despicable and have no place in politics (or anywhere for that matter).

Secondly, I want to see National drop in the polls and Bridges struggle as leader but that’s because I disagree with so many of their policies. I don’t want to see parties rise and fall on bullshit like this.

Lastly, some have been saying there wasn’t much in the conversation and it’s what you’d expect form two colleagues in any environment. I agree, though hard to see Jacinda saying anything like that. Christ, imagine if she did? It would wreck her!
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

Wilderbeast wrote:A few comments on the JLR saga. Some may be stolen from a smattering of commentators.

Firstly, all of National must stand united behind Bridges. You cannot, for one second, make it appear that this kind of behaviour will win you anything in politics. They must unite and shunt him out. His actions were despicable and have no place in politics (or anywhere for that matter).

Secondly, I want to see National drop in the polls and Bridges struggle as leader but that’s because I disagree with so many of their policies. I don’t want to see parties rise and fall on bullshit like this.

Lastly, some have been saying there wasn’t much in the conversation and it’s what you’d expect form two colleagues in any environment. I agree, though hard to see Jacinda saying anything like that. Christ, imagine if she did? It would wreck her!
That's because she's has based her political career solely on the being the morally best person in the room. If she doesn't have that she has nothing. Except little Neve.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by koroke hangareka »

Santa wrote:
Wilderbeast wrote:A few comments on the JLR saga. Some may be stolen from a smattering of commentators.

Firstly, all of National must stand united behind Bridges. You cannot, for one second, make it appear that this kind of behaviour will win you anything in politics. They must unite and shunt him out. His actions were despicable and have no place in politics (or anywhere for that matter).

Secondly, I want to see National drop in the polls and Bridges struggle as leader but that’s because I disagree with so many of their policies. I don’t want to see parties rise and fall on bullshit like this.

Lastly, some have been saying there wasn’t much in the conversation and it’s what you’d expect form two colleagues in any environment. I agree, though hard to see Jacinda saying anything like that. Christ, imagine if she did? It would wreck her!
That's because she's has based her political career solely on the being the morally best person in the room. If she doesn't have that she has nothing. Except little Neve.
What outstanding qualities has Bridges based his career on?
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