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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 9:10 am 
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Location: End of the road, turn right and first house on the left
Unfortunately, I feel that was his swansong.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 6:52 am 
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Weed referendum options have been leaked by Labour (Might be NZ First)

Guessing on purpose to gauge public opinion, but they leaked like a sieve while shedding leaders like dandruff in opposition so may not be that organised and it is just leaked

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1905/S ... rendum.htm


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:05 am 
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There is a real chance that this will turn into a Brexit-style referendum outcome where the public votes in favour and then the government doesn't have a clue how to actually implement the change and it's impossible to go back.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:11 am 
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Legalised cannibis gets way too much attention. Seems fairly unimportant compared to a lot of other shit going on yet some celebrate it as more progressive than anything from the last 20 years.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:17 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Legalised cannibis gets way too much attention. Seems fairly unimportant compared to a lot of other shit going on yet some celebrate it as more progressive than anything from the last 20 years.



Personally just always annoys me that they can't just sort out the medicinal first* and that keeps getting high jacked by the leisure jumping on the back of it.

* Not particularly proven it works in most cases, but if someone is dying a horrible death or is living a tortured life and thinks weed helps, who cares? Just let them have it.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:27 am 
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Medicinal Marijuana shouldn't even be a question while medicinal morphine & cocaine exist (fun fact, I was prescribed cocaine when I had an op for a deviated septum).


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:30 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Medicinal Marijuana shouldn't even be a question while medicinal morphine & cocaine exist (fun fact, I was prescribed cocaine when I had an op for a deviated septum).



"Well mate. Looks like you only have about 6 months to live, then gone burger. It will be horrible......I know.....Bugger....Feel for ya dude....You know how you said someone told you weed might make you think you feel better?....Sorry you can't have it as it is bad for your health"


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 8:17 am 
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Aren't there organizations already gearing up to grow/process/manufacture/supply medical marijuana? There was a story in our local paper about it recently. I was having a laugh because one of my mates in this region (Taupo/Turangi) has real trouble getting factory staff because none of them can pass a drug test. :lol: Will they lighten up on the test if they're working in a marijuana processing operation? :D


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 8:23 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Aren't there organizations already gearing up to grow/process/manufacture/supply medical marijuana? There was a story in our local paper about it recently. I was having a laugh because one of my mates in this region (Taupo/Turangi) has real trouble getting factory staff because none of them can pass a drug test. :lol: Will they lighten up on the test if they're working in a marijuana processing operation? :D


No need. New generation drug testing regimes use a mouth swab which gives a far more accurate picture of activity. The traditional urine test can only indicate the presence of THC at a certain level which gives no clue about when that may have been ingested, leading to people giving a positive result days or weeks after use. So your red herring is beached, bro.

As for corporate activity in the market, the Australian ABC network did a story last year on medical marijuana and the market is already well and truly cornered with several multi million dollar enterprises already up and running there and plans in place for the same over here, many from the same operators.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 8:38 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Aren't there organizations already gearing up to grow/process/manufacture/supply medical marijuana? There was a story in our local paper about it recently. I was having a laugh because one of my mates in this region (Taupo/Turangi) has real trouble getting factory staff because none of them can pass a drug test. :lol: Will they lighten up on the test if they're working in a marijuana processing operation? :D


No need. New generation drug testing regimes use a mouth swab which gives a far more accurate picture of activity. The traditional urine test can only indicate the presence of THC at a certain level which gives no clue about when that may have been ingested, leading to people giving a positive result days or weeks after use. So your red herring is beached, bro.

As for corporate activity in the market, the Australian ABC network did a story last year on medical marijuana and the market is already well and truly cornered with several multi million dollar enterprises already up and running there and plans in place for the same over here, many from the same operators.


So is it already legal or are they setting up in anticipation of it being legalized?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 8:51 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Aren't there organizations already gearing up to grow/process/manufacture/supply medical marijuana? There was a story in our local paper about it recently. I was having a laugh because one of my mates in this region (Taupo/Turangi) has real trouble getting factory staff because none of them can pass a drug test. :lol: Will they lighten up on the test if they're working in a marijuana processing operation? :D


No need. New generation drug testing regimes use a mouth swab which gives a far more accurate picture of activity. The traditional urine test can only indicate the presence of THC at a certain level which gives no clue about when that may have been ingested, leading to people giving a positive result days or weeks after use. So your red herring is beached, bro.

As for corporate activity in the market, the Australian ABC network did a story last year on medical marijuana and the market is already well and truly cornered with several multi million dollar enterprises already up and running there and plans in place for the same over here, many from the same operators.


What's that supposed to mean? I'm pretty relaxed either way. It's not my drug of choice. Much happier having a beer or wine than smoking a joint but I have always felt that the testing is inherently unfair. If I get hammered Friday night I can rock up for work Monday and the alcohol is completely gone from my system. But if I smoke a joint while watching Super Rugby Friday night I turn up for work Monday completely unimpaired and ready to go but I would fail a drug test. Unless, as you are indicating the testing has improved. If it's a question of impairment neither situation impairs my ability to work on Monday morning but one would fail under current testing.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 8:53 am 
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Local factory round my ways dropped pre-employment drug testing. They're saving money on testing and have no issues finding or keeping staff. Another local factory has pre-employment drug testing, struggle to find and keep staff. Funny that.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:01 am 
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booji boy wrote:

So is it already legal or are they setting up in anticipation of it being legalized?


Anticipating, they know it's going through. The revenues are staggering, no govt can resist the tax benefits quite aside from the material benefits on offer.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:03 am 
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Kahu wrote:
Local factory round my ways dropped pre-employment drug testing. They're saving money on testing and have no issues finding or keeping staff. Another local factory has pre-employment drug testing, struggle to find and keep staff. Funny that.


About ten years ago, about the time I moved to Taupo, I attended a stag night in Auckland. One of my old mates from London slipped me a pill. Back in London I would have popped it without question. To this day I don't know what it was but I slipped it into my pocket and later that night disposed of it. My new job in Taupo required a drugs test about a fortnight later. Chances are it wouldn't have shown up but i was bloody relieved I hadn't popped that pill whatever it was.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:16 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Kahu wrote:
Local factory round my ways dropped pre-employment drug testing. They're saving money on testing and have no issues finding or keeping staff. Another local factory has pre-employment drug testing, struggle to find and keep staff. Funny that.


About ten years ago, about the time I moved to Taupo, I attended a stag night in Auckland. One of my old mates from London slipped me a pill. Back in London I would have popped it without question. To this day I don't know what it was but I slipped it into my pocket and later that night disposed of it. My new job in Taupo required a drugs test about a fortnight later. Chances are it wouldn't have shown up but i was bloody relieved I hadn't popped that pill whatever it was.

What a wanker, you should have given it back to him. :D


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:40 am 
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😂😂😂 at least could have swapped it for a few jugs. I'm quite partial to indulging in illicit substances but I've always tried to stay away from P. Not because I think it's a dangerous drug but because I remember reading something saying that the most addictive forms of drug use are smoking and injecting. When I left school I started at the local meat works and it was dominated by cannabis and alcohol users. I left after a few seasons but returned after a few years dairy farming and noticed a big change in the drug culture. Compulsory random drug testing had been introduced and most of those workers still there who used to be cannabis smokers were now meth smokers. People argue that they have different effects and therefore users of one drug won't use the other but I firmly believe drug use/abuse is just a form of escapism and drug users will use whatever is available that they like that won't negatively affect their life too much. With the changes in employment drug testing it has helped lead to the massive prevalence of meth in our society.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:46 am 
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booji boy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Aren't there organizations already gearing up to grow/process/manufacture/supply medical marijuana? There was a story in our local paper about it recently. I was having a laugh because one of my mates in this region (Taupo/Turangi) has real trouble getting factory staff because none of them can pass a drug test. :lol: Will they lighten up on the test if they're working in a marijuana processing operation? :D


No need. New generation drug testing regimes use a mouth swab which gives a far more accurate picture of activity. The traditional urine test can only indicate the presence of THC at a certain level which gives no clue about when that may have been ingested, leading to people giving a positive result days or weeks after use. So your red herring is beached, bro.

As for corporate activity in the market, the Australian ABC network did a story last year on medical marijuana and the market is already well and truly cornered with several multi million dollar enterprises already up and running there and plans in place for the same over here, many from the same operators.


What's that supposed to mean? I'm pretty relaxed either way. It's not my drug of choice. Much happier having a beer or wine than smoking a joint but I have always felt that the testing is inherently unfair. If I get hammered Friday night I can rock up for work Monday and the alcohol is completely gone from my system. But if I smoke a joint while watching Super Rugby Friday night I turn up for work Monday completely unimpaired and ready to go but I would fail a drug test. Unless, as you are indicating the testing has improved. If it's a question of impairment neither situation impairs my ability to work on Monday morning but one would fail under current testing.


Have mixed views on this and can see both sides

On the one hand I probably 70% agree with you, but 30% says you know it is going show up and if you want the job just don't toke the paper parcel and have something else


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:49 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Kahu wrote:
Local factory round my ways dropped pre-employment drug testing. They're saving money on testing and have no issues finding or keeping staff. Another local factory has pre-employment drug testing, struggle to find and keep staff. Funny that.


About ten years ago, about the time I moved to Taupo, I attended a stag night in Auckland. One of my old mates from London slipped me a pill. Back in London I would have popped it without question. To this day I don't know what it was but I slipped it into my pocket and later that night disposed of it. My new job in Taupo required a drugs test about a fortnight later. Chances are it wouldn't have shown up but i was bloody relieved I hadn't popped that pill whatever it was.

What a wanker, you should have given it back to him. :D


As I typed that I thought that myself. Trust you to pull me up on it. :lol: But honestly I'm sure my mate would have felt worse/let down if I'd tried to give it back to him. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:54 am 
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Kahu wrote:
😂😂😂 at least could have swapped it for a few jugs. I'm quite partial to indulging in illicit substances but I've always tried to stay away from P. Not because I think it's a dangerous drug but because I remember reading something saying that the most addictive forms of drug use are smoking and injecting. When I left school I started at the local meat works and it was dominated by cannabis and alcohol users. I left after a few seasons but returned after a few years dairy farming and noticed a big change in the drug culture. Compulsory random drug testing had been introduced and most of those workers still there who used to be cannabis smokers were now meth smokers. People argue that they have different effects and therefore users of one drug won't use the other but I firmly believe drug use/abuse is just a form of escapism and drug users will use whatever is available that they like that won't negatively affect their life too much. With the changes in employment drug testing it has helped lead to the massive prevalence of meth in our society.


x( Meth use in place of cannabis is a terrible perverse outcome of drug testing. Tragic. :thumbdown:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 10:24 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Medicinal Marijuana shouldn't even be a question while medicinal morphine & cocaine exist (fun fact, I was prescribed cocaine when I had an op for a deviated septum).


I had morphine for the first time when I had a medical operation about 7 years ago. I didn't feel stoned, I just feel so incredibly positive. :D

Wilderbeast wrote:
Legalised cannibis gets way too much attention. Seems fairly unimportant compared to a lot of other shit going on yet some celebrate it as more progressive than anything from the last 20 years.


The Government shouldn't legalise cannabis, they should simply decriminalise it.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 10:27 am 
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Tehui wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Medicinal Marijuana shouldn't even be a question while medicinal morphine & cocaine exist (fun fact, I was prescribed cocaine when I had an op for a deviated septum).


I had morphine for the first time when I had a medical operation about 7 years ago. I didn't feel stoned, I just feel so incredibly positive. :D


Yeah me too, had it a couple of times. Felt sooo good. :D


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 10:29 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Tehui wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Medicinal Marijuana shouldn't even be a question while medicinal morphine & cocaine exist (fun fact, I was prescribed cocaine when I had an op for a deviated septum).


I had morphine for the first time when I had a medical operation about 7 years ago. I didn't feel stoned, I just feel so incredibly positive. :D


Yeah me too, had it a couple of times. Felt sooo good. :D

:nod: :nod:

oooooo boy


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 11:39 am 
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Tehui wrote:
The Government shouldn't legalise cannabis, they should simply decriminalise it.


This is sort of what I think but if this occurs I think Cannabis abuse will grow. If it's not fully legalised where does the money come from to treat the increase in costs to society? I don't have an answer to that. Whatever they do will have downsides. I guess it's just trying to estimate what model will have the least negative effect or perhaps what will have the most positive effect.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 11:44 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Tehui wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Medicinal Marijuana shouldn't even be a question while medicinal morphine & cocaine exist (fun fact, I was prescribed cocaine when I had an op for a deviated septum).


I had morphine for the first time when I had a medical operation about 7 years ago. I didn't feel stoned, I just feel so incredibly positive. :D


Yeah me too, had it a couple of times. Felt sooo good. :D

Well that's another argument.
Why would you choose medical marijuana when there's morphine to be had?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 11:48 am 
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booji boy wrote:
Tehui wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Medicinal Marijuana shouldn't even be a question while medicinal morphine & cocaine exist (fun fact, I was prescribed cocaine when I had an op for a deviated septum).


I had morphine for the first time when I had a medical operation about 7 years ago. I didn't feel stoned, I just feel so incredibly positive. :D


Yeah me too, had it a couple of times. Felt sooo good. :D


Especially when you get the machine and can keep dishing it out once a minute :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 11:51 am 
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BillW wrote:
Why would you choose medical marijuana when there's morphine to be had?


They are prescribed for different reasons. Sufferers of Fibromyalgia and Epileptics are not subscribed morphine.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 1:31 pm 
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Kahu wrote:
Tehui wrote:
The Government shouldn't legalise cannabis, they should simply decriminalise it.


This is sort of what I think but if this occurs I think Cannabis abuse will grow. If it's not fully legalised where does the money come from to treat the increase in costs to society? I don't have an answer to that. Whatever they do will have downsides. I guess it's just trying to estimate what model will have the least negative effect or perhaps what will have the most positive effect.


My main worry about legalising cannabis is that capitalism & profit-seeking takes over the product. You only need to look at the history of the tobacco industry to see how much capitalism cares about public harm.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:40 pm 
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Tehui wrote:
Kahu wrote:
Tehui wrote:
The Government shouldn't legalise cannabis, they should simply decriminalise it.


This is sort of what I think but if this occurs I think Cannabis abuse will grow. If it's not fully legalised where does the money come from to treat the increase in costs to society? I don't have an answer to that. Whatever they do will have downsides. I guess it's just trying to estimate what model will have the least negative effect or perhaps what will have the most positive effect.


My main worry about legalising cannabis is that capitalism & profit-seeking takes over the product. You only need to look at the history of the tobacco industry to see how much capitalism cares about public harm.


What else do you suggest?

Controlling its supply like we do with pharmaceuticals can reduce the harmful effects (hopefully) compared to your tobacco industry example but pharmaceutical companies are still massively profit driven.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:42 pm 
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Tehui wrote:
Kahu wrote:
Tehui wrote:
The Government shouldn't legalise cannabis, they should simply decriminalise it.


This is sort of what I think but if this occurs I think Cannabis abuse will grow. If it's not fully legalised where does the money come from to treat the increase in costs to society? I don't have an answer to that. Whatever they do will have downsides. I guess it's just trying to estimate what model will have the least negative effect or perhaps what will have the most positive effect.


My main worry about legalising cannabis is that capitalism & profit-seeking takes over the product. You only need to look at the history of the tobacco industry to see how much capitalism cares about public harm.


You're making it out like it's currently being grown and sold by the Trappists.
At least a legal entity has an obligation to follow regulatory frameworks


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:45 pm 
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deadduck wrote:
Tehui wrote:
Kahu wrote:
Tehui wrote:
The Government shouldn't legalise cannabis, they should simply decriminalise it.


This is sort of what I think but if this occurs I think Cannabis abuse will grow. If it's not fully legalised where does the money come from to treat the increase in costs to society? I don't have an answer to that. Whatever they do will have downsides. I guess it's just trying to estimate what model will have the least negative effect or perhaps what will have the most positive effect.


My main worry about legalising cannabis is that capitalism & profit-seeking takes over the product. You only need to look at the history of the tobacco industry to see how much capitalism cares about public harm.


You're making it out like it's currently being grown and sold by the Trappists.
At least a legal entity has an obligation to follow regulatory frameworks

There will always be a niche market for artisanal weed producers and your Mom and Pot stores to stick it to Big Ganja.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:48 pm 
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Tehui wrote:

My main worry about legalising cannabis is that capitalism & profit-seeking takes over the product. You only need to look at the history of the tobacco industry to see how much capitalism cares about public harm.


My first reaction is to agree with you, but where are we at now with it? Overall, I think we're better off going down the road of regulating the product... even talking about that is a quantum leap from a couple of years back when mere decriminalisation was a step too far for public discourse.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:53 pm 
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What’s that cold and flu medication that was banned in no becausenit can be used to make P? Rather have a referendum on making that legal thanks :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:59 pm 
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No point Widerbeast - that would be like the flag referendum - pseudoephedrine is best gone with the dinosaurs


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 10:47 pm 
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The overall tone of "Cannabis" discussion appears to be that it's inevitable that public access to 'recreational ' cannabis will be allowed.

The referendum terms/options should already in the public domain and available for scrutiny/ analysis / debate now.

What is being 'drip fed' at the moment looks like we're heading for a poofest.

The basis for all aspects of current Drug policy/law/jurisprudence etc is the remarkable document

"The New Zealand Drug Harm Index 2016 " which I can heartily recommend to read for those folks who like fantasy entertainment such as 'lord of the rings/game of thrones etc.
ie a work [ expensively produced by various consultancies for 15 years] of complete fantasy/ BS.

I've recently been watching the excellent Ken Burns doco " Prohibition" and the parallels between the disastrous effects of mandatory prohibition of the western world's #1 recreational drug, Alcohol , and the prohibition on all other recreational drugs under the 1975 Misuse of Drugs Act , is emphatic.

Our current law is not merely an ass , but is in fact the rotting carcass of an ass.

The only committed supporters of it are the carrion who feed daily off that rotting carcass.
ie The legal profession, the judiciary , law enforcement and still lurking in the wings, hungry and frustrated , Private Prison Corporates.

The most committed opposition to reform comes from the Police , who are on public record as stating they do not want to lose the warrantless entry & search rights the act allows and enables them to hold implicit power and leverage over the estimated 60% of the population who use illicit drugs at various frequency.

Standing in the shadows of the same corner are the Booze industry and Big Pharma , whose fears over the impact on their bottom lines by 'liberalisation', particularly of cannabis , a have been proved to be true in the US.

They've got lots of $$$ to spend , lobbyists to burn and very powerful and knowledgeable senior coppers to advise them on who to shoulder tap.

To me , Cannabis reform [ whatever that actually means] , is the small tip of a very large and problematic iceberg.

We need to be having an informed discussion on the whole iceberg not just the bit above water.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 10:54 pm 
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Enzedder wrote:
No point Widerbeast - that would be like the flag referendum - pseudoephedrine is best gone with the dinosaurs


Yes, even forbid we have cold and flu meds that actually work.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 1:05 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Tehui wrote:

My main worry about legalising cannabis is that capitalism & profit-seeking takes over the product. You only need to look at the history of the tobacco industry to see how much capitalism cares about public harm.


My first reaction is to agree with you, but where are we at now with it? Overall, I think we're better off going down the road of regulating the product... even talking about that is a quantum leap from a couple of years back when mere decriminalisation was a step too far for public discourse.


Maybe. I'll need to see some evidence-based studies on other international jurisdictions that have legalised cannabis.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 7:12 am 
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Tehui wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Tehui wrote:

My main worry about legalising cannabis is that capitalism & profit-seeking takes over the product. You only need to look at the history of the tobacco industry to see how much capitalism cares about public harm.


My first reaction is to agree with you, but where are we at now with it? Overall, I think we're better off going down the road of regulating the product... even talking about that is a quantum leap from a couple of years back when mere decriminalisation was a step too far for public discourse.


Maybe. I'll need to see some evidence-based studies on other international jurisdictions that have legalised cannabis.


Just broad general statements but gives a vague idea

On that note kiwis are generally more irresponsible around alcohol so I can see that being replicated a bit here with cannabis- at least initially

Quote:
Uruguay

We begin with the tiny South American nation, as they became the first country in the modern era to legalise recreational use of cannabis in 2013.

The legislation came into being in an effort to combat drug-related organised crimes and health issues.

Legal marijuana is now carefully controlled by a small number of chemists who distribute an affordable high quality product which is said to provide an excellent high.

Sales of the drug remain frustrated by banks’ fear of handling money from marijuana-related accounts, as the drug largely remains illegal across the globe.

Portugal

Portugal effectively decriminalised possession of any drug in 2001, even heroin and cocaine, so long as the amount does not exceed a ten-day personal supply.

Since then, drug issues in the country have been treated more as medical concerns than a criminal justice issue.

Since the law took effect, HIV infections have fallen dramatically and drug-related deaths have decreased to among the lowest in the EU.

Among Portuguese adults, there are three drug overdose deaths for every 1,000,000 citizens.

Comparable numbers in other countries range from 10.2 per million in the Netherlands to 44.6 per million in the UK, all the way up to 126.8 per million in Estonia. The EU average is 17.3 per million.

In addition, the country has among the world’s lowest use of substances such as “synthetic” marijuana, “bath salts” and “spice”.

Spain

Next door, Spain has also adopted a fairly liberal attitude to the personal consumption of marijuana.

It remains illegal to sell it for commercial purposes, but since the 1990s the drug has been decriminalised and it may be grown on private property for use in a private space.

Non-profit-making cannabis clubs are a popular means of growing and smoking cannabis in Spain.

In Catalonia, the regional government has launched a limited programme to allow prescriptions of Sativex to sufferers of multiple sclerosis and cancer.

Medical marijuana programmes do not exist elsewhere in the country.

Switzerland

Possession of personal supplies of cannabis was decriminalised to a flat fine of 100 Swiss francs in 2012, and following the rule change some regions began to permit the cultivation and use of cannabis.

However, the fine system has almost stopped, as last year the federal court ruled the law had been wrongly administered.

As a consequence, regional police departments have begun stopping prosecuting people for possession of small quantities of the drug.

USA

medical-marijuana.jpg
The US 'war on drugs' has cost in excess of a trillion dollars (Getty)
In 1969, the then-US president, Richard Nixon, formally announced a “war on drugs” designed to eradicate drugs and imprison offenders.

After almost 50 years and well over $1trn spent on anti-drug efforts, some US states have made efforts to relax cannabis laws.

Medical cannabis is now legal in some form in at least 29 states – with California leading the way in 1996.

Despite state rulings, federal crackdowns punctuated the Clinton, Bush and Obama administrations.

Since 2014, states which have legalised medical cannabis have received a degree of protection at federal government level after an amendment prevented the US Justice Department from spending funds on interfering with state medical cannabis laws.

As of 2018, eight US states have adopted laws to legalise recreational use of marijuana. They are: Maine, Massachusetts, Colorado, Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada and Alaska.

Earlier this year, sales of the drug for recreational use began in California, with Massachusetts set to follow in July.

Netherlands

In the Netherlands, cannabis remains illegal, but was decriminalised for personal use in 1953.

Since 1976, the drug has been available for recreational use in coffee shops, and possession of up to five grams for personal use was decriminalised, though police may still confiscate it. This often happens at border checks.

There are five varieties of medical cannabis available through pharmacies in the Netherlands and it is regulated by a branch of the government - the Office for Medicinal Cannabis.

Official crime figures for the Netherlands show a downward trend, however this year the Dutch Police union warned the country was beginning to resemble a “narco-state,” as organised crime has increased.

Norway

Recent changes in Norway have seen significant relaxing of laws pertaining to both medical and recreational cannabis.

In 2016. medical cannabis became available through special approval in Norway.

Though the drug remains illegal except for medical purposes, in 2017, the Norwegian parliament announced cannabis would be decriminalised for personal use.

In addition, the government has said it would provide medical treatment to users rather than fines and imprisonment.

Despite being decriminalised, those caught with up to 15 grams – the amount considered to be for personal use – receive a fine. Those caught with more than one kilo can expect serious jail terms.

Sweden

Cannabis in Sweden is illegal, and currently the drug has no recognised medical usage.

Canada

Canada has provided access to legal medical cannabis since 1999.

Current laws allow licensed producers to grow, manufacture and sell cannabis products for medical use, and individuals may also grow their own cannabis for medical purposes.

Over 200,000 Canadians are registered as users of medical marijuana.

The Canadian market for medical cannabis is projected to exceed a value of C$1bn (£570m).

In 2017, legislation to legalise the drug for recreational use was passed by Canada's House of Commons, then the Senate in March 2018.

When the law comes into effect later this year, the sale of the drug will be taxed and provinces will have the power to regulate means of sales. Annual sales are estimated to be C$4bn (£2.29bn).

France

Along with the UK, France has among the strictest laws on Cannabis in western Europe. This week, the French government has cracked down on sales of what is essentially hemp, after a legal loophole allowed shops to start selling THC-free strains of the drug. Long queues formed outside recently set-up shops, prompting the government to take action.

Limited prescriptions for medical cannabis derivatives have been available since 2013, and can only be supplied when all other medications have failed.



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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 7:52 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Medicinal Marijuana shouldn't even be a question while medicinal morphine & cocaine exist (fun fact, I was prescribed cocaine when I had an op for a deviated septum).


Who was it with - can you remember?

It would’ve just been used surgically as a vasoconstrictor.. not used that often now-especially in Nz- more effective vasoconstrictors around with less potential side effects


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 11:51 pm 
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Tehui wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Tehui wrote:

My main worry about legalising cannabis is that capitalism & profit-seeking takes over the product. You only need to look at the history of the tobacco industry to see how much capitalism cares about public harm.


My first reaction is to agree with you, but where are we at now with it? Overall, I think we're better off going down the road of regulating the product... even talking about that is a quantum leap from a couple of years back when mere decriminalisation was a step too far for public discourse.


Maybe. I'll need to see some evidence-based studies on other international jurisdictions that have legalised cannabis.


Announced this morning... a key that may address your concerns Tehui, is the ban on advertising proposed.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:59 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Tehui wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Tehui wrote:

My main worry about legalising cannabis is that capitalism & profit-seeking takes over the product. You only need to look at the history of the tobacco industry to see how much capitalism cares about public harm.


My first reaction is to agree with you, but where are we at now with it? Overall, I think we're better off going down the road of regulating the product... even talking about that is a quantum leap from a couple of years back when mere decriminalisation was a step too far for public discourse.


Maybe. I'll need to see some evidence-based studies on other international jurisdictions that have legalised cannabis.


Announced this morning... a key that may address your concerns Tehui, is the ban on advertising proposed.


I'll likely vote for change.


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