Page 462 of 1317

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:53 am
by Dark
Meanwhile our global leader and beacon of "kindness" is still having staff abused in her office.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics ... affer.html
Exclusive: Labour forced to review investigation into bullying, sexual assault allegations against staffer

Newshub can reveal the Labour Party has been forced to review an internal investigation into bullying, sexual harassment and sexual assault by a Labour staffer.

It follows complaints the investigation process was botched and traumatising for the alleged victims. At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their membership as a result.

The complainants say the party's done nothing to improve its processes since the sexual harassment allegations at last year's Young Labour summer camp.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is aware of the allegations. Finance Minister Grant Robertson also knows some details, so do two other Labour MPs.

Following the Young Labour summer camp allegations in 2018 of sexual assault, underage drinking, bullying and harassment, Labour Seven party members and officials laid complaints this year accusing a senior Labour staffer of unacceptable behaviour ranging from bullying and intimidation to sexual harassment and sexual assault.it would do better.

The Prime Minister said in August last year, "We need to do things differently".

An inquiry by lawyer Maria Austen recommended sweeping changes including to the party's bullying, sexual harassment and assault policies.

But Newshub has spoken to five people who say nothing has changed since then.

When asked if the Prime Minister has lived up to her promise, one of the complainants said: "Not at all."

Their complaints were investigated in March and no disciplinary action was taken. The man's lawyer says the allegations were untrue.

But after concerns were raised about the investigation, the party is now reviewing its processes - but not the outcome.

One of the complainants told Newshub they were "disappointed" with the Labour Party since "no action" had been taken.

"I'm really just disappointed that even though they were aware, there was no action taken, and it seems like this is happening over and we're going through the trauma of it again."

The complainant added: "I really don't have much faith that the party will do something."

Complainants have spoken of panic attacks, vomiting and having to take days off work because they were so scared of the staffer.

At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their Labour membership.

"We consider these people our family, our whānau, and it's really disappointing to see how we've been treated," the complainant said.

"You would hope that your family would look out for you and I've really been let down by it."

As far back as August 2018, Labour Party president Nigel Haworth was informed the staffer told a woman she was elected within the party because she "would be nice to sleep with".

He was also told a senior ministerial staffer had warned an alleged victim that if she told anyone about the staffer's behaviour she would be shut-down.

"It's really disappointing to see the Prime Minister's Office standing by," the complainant said. "They all knew and nothing's happening."

Newshub can reveal the Labour Party has been forced to review an internal investigation into bullying, sexual harassment and sexual assault by a Labour staffer.

It follows complaints the investigation process was botched and traumatising for the alleged victims. At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their membership as a result.



Seven party members and officials laid complaints this year accusing a senior Labour staffer of unacceptable behaviour ranging from bullying and intimidation to sexual harassment and sexual assault.

Their complaints were investigated in March and no disciplinary action was taken. The man's lawyer says the allegations were untrue.

But after concerns were raised about the investigation, the party is now reviewing its processes - but not the outcome.

One of the complainants told Newshub they were "disappointed" with the Labour Party since "no action" had been taken.

"I'm really just disappointed that even though they were aware, there was no action taken, and it seems like this is happening over and we're going through the trauma of it again."

The complainant added: "I really don't have much faith that the party will do something."

Complainants have spoken of panic attacks, vomiting and having to take days off work because they were so scared of the staffer.

At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their Labour membership.

"We consider these people our family, our whānau, and it's really disappointing to see how we've been treated," the complainant said.

"You would hope that your family would look out for you and I've really been let down by it."

As far back as August 2018, Labour Party president Nigel Haworth was informed the staffer told a woman she was elected within the party because she "would be nice to sleep with".

He was also told a senior ministerial staffer had warned an alleged victim that if she told anyone about the staffer's behaviour she would be shut-down.

"It's really disappointing to see the Prime Minister's Office standing by," the complainant said. "They all knew and nothing's happening."


Interviews took place on 9 March and the investigation wrapped up on 21 May. In June, the complainants say they were called about the outcome.

It wasn't until July 5 when the party president emailed complainants explaining that no action would be taken and that "there is no appeal process".

Leaked party emails show the alleged victims felt "left in the dark" from between the interviews and the conclusion.

"We've just lost hope," the complainant said.

Newshub has been investigating this story for nearly a month. The list of complaints about the party's process include:
  • -a lack of communication
    -complainants weren't shown transcripts of their testimonies to check for accuracy before they went to the alleged perpetrator, outing their names to him
    -the length of time to reply to complainants was "unacceptable", in some cases they got no response
    -concerns the internal party process could mean undue influence


Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:43 am
by grouch
Dark wrote:Meanwhile our global leader and beacon of "kindness" is still having staff abused in her office.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics ... affer.html
Exclusive: Labour forced to review investigation into bullying, sexual assault allegations against staffer

Newshub can reveal the Labour Party has been forced to review an internal investigation into bullying, sexual harassment and sexual assault by a Labour staffer.

It follows complaints the investigation process was botched and traumatising for the alleged victims. At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their membership as a result.

The complainants say the party's done nothing to improve its processes since the sexual harassment allegations at last year's Young Labour summer camp.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is aware of the allegations. Finance Minister Grant Robertson also knows some details, so do two other Labour MPs.

Following the Young Labour summer camp allegations in 2018 of sexual assault, underage drinking, bullying and harassment, Labour Seven party members and officials laid complaints this year accusing a senior Labour staffer of unacceptable behaviour ranging from bullying and intimidation to sexual harassment and sexual assault.it would do better.

The Prime Minister said in August last year, "We need to do things differently".

An inquiry by lawyer Maria Austen recommended sweeping changes including to the party's bullying, sexual harassment and assault policies.

But Newshub has spoken to five people who say nothing has changed since then.

When asked if the Prime Minister has lived up to her promise, one of the complainants said: "Not at all."

Their complaints were investigated in March and no disciplinary action was taken. The man's lawyer says the allegations were untrue.

But after concerns were raised about the investigation, the party is now reviewing its processes - but not the outcome.

One of the complainants told Newshub they were "disappointed" with the Labour Party since "no action" had been taken.

"I'm really just disappointed that even though they were aware, there was no action taken, and it seems like this is happening over and we're going through the trauma of it again."

The complainant added: "I really don't have much faith that the party will do something."

Complainants have spoken of panic attacks, vomiting and having to take days off work because they were so scared of the staffer.

At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their Labour membership.

"We consider these people our family, our whānau, and it's really disappointing to see how we've been treated," the complainant said.

"You would hope that your family would look out for you and I've really been let down by it."

As far back as August 2018, Labour Party president Nigel Haworth was informed the staffer told a woman she was elected within the party because she "would be nice to sleep with".

He was also told a senior ministerial staffer had warned an alleged victim that if she told anyone about the staffer's behaviour she would be shut-down.

"It's really disappointing to see the Prime Minister's Office standing by," the complainant said. "They all knew and nothing's happening."

Newshub can reveal the Labour Party has been forced to review an internal investigation into bullying, sexual harassment and sexual assault by a Labour staffer.

It follows complaints the investigation process was botched and traumatising for the alleged victims. At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their membership as a result.



Seven party members and officials laid complaints this year accusing a senior Labour staffer of unacceptable behaviour ranging from bullying and intimidation to sexual harassment and sexual assault.

Their complaints were investigated in March and no disciplinary action was taken. The man's lawyer says the allegations were untrue.

But after concerns were raised about the investigation, the party is now reviewing its processes - but not the outcome.

One of the complainants told Newshub they were "disappointed" with the Labour Party since "no action" had been taken.

"I'm really just disappointed that even though they were aware, there was no action taken, and it seems like this is happening over and we're going through the trauma of it again."

The complainant added: "I really don't have much faith that the party will do something."

Complainants have spoken of panic attacks, vomiting and having to take days off work because they were so scared of the staffer.

At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their Labour membership.

"We consider these people our family, our whānau, and it's really disappointing to see how we've been treated," the complainant said.

"You would hope that your family would look out for you and I've really been let down by it."

As far back as August 2018, Labour Party president Nigel Haworth was informed the staffer told a woman she was elected within the party because she "would be nice to sleep with".

He was also told a senior ministerial staffer had warned an alleged victim that if she told anyone about the staffer's behaviour she would be shut-down.

"It's really disappointing to see the Prime Minister's Office standing by," the complainant said. "They all knew and nothing's happening."


Interviews took place on 9 March and the investigation wrapped up on 21 May. In June, the complainants say they were called about the outcome.

It wasn't until July 5 when the party president emailed complainants explaining that no action would be taken and that "there is no appeal process".

Leaked party emails show the alleged victims felt "left in the dark" from between the interviews and the conclusion.

"We've just lost hope," the complainant said.

Newshub has been investigating this story for nearly a month. The list of complaints about the party's process include:
  • -a lack of communication
    -complainants weren't shown transcripts of their testimonies to check for accuracy before they went to the alleged perpetrator, outing their names to him
    -the length of time to reply to complainants was "unacceptable", in some cases they got no response
    -concerns the internal party process could mean undue influence

:shock:
Apalling , has Jamie Lee been asked to comment?

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:15 am
by brat
@boojiboy

Because that statement can be taken in more than one way - especially if you don’t read the first post

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:17 am
by Dark
grouch wrote:
Dark wrote:Meanwhile our global leader and beacon of "kindness" is still having staff abused in her office.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics ... affer.html
Exclusive: Labour forced to review investigation into bullying, sexual assault allegations against staffer

Newshub can reveal the Labour Party has been forced to review an internal investigation into bullying, sexual harassment and sexual assault by a Labour staffer.

It follows complaints the investigation process was botched and traumatising for the alleged victims. At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their membership as a result.

The complainants say the party's done nothing to improve its processes since the sexual harassment allegations at last year's Young Labour summer camp.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is aware of the allegations. Finance Minister Grant Robertson also knows some details, so do two other Labour MPs.

Following the Young Labour summer camp allegations in 2018 of sexual assault, underage drinking, bullying and harassment, Labour Seven party members and officials laid complaints this year accusing a senior Labour staffer of unacceptable behaviour ranging from bullying and intimidation to sexual harassment and sexual assault.it would do better.

The Prime Minister said in August last year, "We need to do things differently".

An inquiry by lawyer Maria Austen recommended sweeping changes including to the party's bullying, sexual harassment and assault policies.

But Newshub has spoken to five people who say nothing has changed since then.

When asked if the Prime Minister has lived up to her promise, one of the complainants said: "Not at all."

Their complaints were investigated in March and no disciplinary action was taken. The man's lawyer says the allegations were untrue.

But after concerns were raised about the investigation, the party is now reviewing its processes - but not the outcome.

One of the complainants told Newshub they were "disappointed" with the Labour Party since "no action" had been taken.

"I'm really just disappointed that even though they were aware, there was no action taken, and it seems like this is happening over and we're going through the trauma of it again."

The complainant added: "I really don't have much faith that the party will do something."

Complainants have spoken of panic attacks, vomiting and having to take days off work because they were so scared of the staffer.

At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their Labour membership.

"We consider these people our family, our whānau, and it's really disappointing to see how we've been treated," the complainant said.

"You would hope that your family would look out for you and I've really been let down by it."

As far back as August 2018, Labour Party president Nigel Haworth was informed the staffer told a woman she was elected within the party because she "would be nice to sleep with".

He was also told a senior ministerial staffer had warned an alleged victim that if she told anyone about the staffer's behaviour she would be shut-down.

"It's really disappointing to see the Prime Minister's Office standing by," the complainant said. "They all knew and nothing's happening."

Newshub can reveal the Labour Party has been forced to review an internal investigation into bullying, sexual harassment and sexual assault by a Labour staffer.

It follows complaints the investigation process was botched and traumatising for the alleged victims. At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their membership as a result.



Seven party members and officials laid complaints this year accusing a senior Labour staffer of unacceptable behaviour ranging from bullying and intimidation to sexual harassment and sexual assault.

Their complaints were investigated in March and no disciplinary action was taken. The man's lawyer says the allegations were untrue.

But after concerns were raised about the investigation, the party is now reviewing its processes - but not the outcome.

One of the complainants told Newshub they were "disappointed" with the Labour Party since "no action" had been taken.

"I'm really just disappointed that even though they were aware, there was no action taken, and it seems like this is happening over and we're going through the trauma of it again."

The complainant added: "I really don't have much faith that the party will do something."

Complainants have spoken of panic attacks, vomiting and having to take days off work because they were so scared of the staffer.

At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their Labour membership.

"We consider these people our family, our whānau, and it's really disappointing to see how we've been treated," the complainant said.

"You would hope that your family would look out for you and I've really been let down by it."

As far back as August 2018, Labour Party president Nigel Haworth was informed the staffer told a woman she was elected within the party because she "would be nice to sleep with".

He was also told a senior ministerial staffer had warned an alleged victim that if she told anyone about the staffer's behaviour she would be shut-down.

"It's really disappointing to see the Prime Minister's Office standing by," the complainant said. "They all knew and nothing's happening."


Interviews took place on 9 March and the investigation wrapped up on 21 May. In June, the complainants say they were called about the outcome.

It wasn't until July 5 when the party president emailed complainants explaining that no action would be taken and that "there is no appeal process".

Leaked party emails show the alleged victims felt "left in the dark" from between the interviews and the conclusion.

"We've just lost hope," the complainant said.

Newshub has been investigating this story for nearly a month. The list of complaints about the party's process include:
  • -a lack of communication
    -complainants weren't shown transcripts of their testimonies to check for accuracy before they went to the alleged perpetrator, outing their names to him
    -the length of time to reply to complainants was "unacceptable", in some cases they got no response
    -concerns the internal party process could mean undue influence

:shock:
Apalling , has Jamie Lee been asked to comment?
Yes

He said "wibble" and put pencils up his nose

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:29 am
by deadduck
booji boy wrote:
WTF? By 'misplaced soaring ambition' I assumed Seneca was talking about people that get filled with grandiose ideas and delusions of grandeur that they will never be able to fulfill and you come up with two of the 20th century's most powerful dictators and a billionaire businessman who's also president of the United States. WTAF has that got to do with Jacindamania?
Elizabeth Holmes is perhaps a more relevant example

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:32 am
by Mr Mike
deadduck wrote:
booji boy wrote:
WTF? By 'misplaced soaring ambition' I assumed Seneca was talking about people that get filled with grandiose ideas and delusions of grandeur that they will never be able to fulfill and you come up with two of the 20th century's most powerful dictators and a billionaire businessman who's also president of the United States. WTAF has that got to do with Jacindamania?
Elizabeth Holmes is perhaps a more relevant example
“The Dropout” is a good listen if anyone has an interest in Holmes.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:38 pm
by Kahu
Piggymana upping the ante tonight at Ihumātao. Funny how they can send a hundred officers to a peaceful protest but early hours of Sunday morning when my dickhead neighbour is bashing his Mrs they're understaffed and say to lay a complaint in the morning and to call back if the violence escalates

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:22 pm
by booji boy
deadduck wrote:
booji boy wrote:
WTF? By 'misplaced soaring ambition' I assumed Seneca was talking about people that get filled with grandiose ideas and delusions of grandeur that they will never be able to fulfill and you come up with two of the 20th century's most powerful dictators and a billionaire businessman who's also president of the United States. WTAF has that got to do with Jacindamania?
Elizabeth Holmes is perhaps a more relevant example
But examples like her are surely rare. It takes a rare and exceptional talent to dupe normally circumspect investors out of billions of dollars. Perhaps it was just the smile, blonde hair and blue eyes that duped those dirty old white men into backing her? We can all be taken in like that to a certain extent I guess but the deep, put on voice would have been a deal killer for me. :thumbdown: x(

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:58 pm
by grouch
Dark wrote:
grouch wrote:
Dark wrote:Meanwhile our global leader and beacon of "kindness" is still having staff abused in her office.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics ... affer.html
Exclusive: Labour forced to review investigation into bullying, sexual assault allegations against staffer

Newshub can reveal the Labour Party has been forced to review an internal investigation into bullying, sexual harassment and sexual assault by a Labour staffer.

It follows complaints the investigation process was botched and traumatising for the alleged victims. At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their membership as a result.

The complainants say the party's done nothing to improve its processes since the sexual harassment allegations at last year's Young Labour summer camp.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is aware of the allegations. Finance Minister Grant Robertson also knows some details, so do two other Labour MPs.

Following the Young Labour summer camp allegations in 2018 of sexual assault, underage drinking, bullying and harassment, Labour Seven party members and officials laid complaints this year accusing a senior Labour staffer of unacceptable behaviour ranging from bullying and intimidation to sexual harassment and sexual assault.it would do better.

The Prime Minister said in August last year, "We need to do things differently".

An inquiry by lawyer Maria Austen recommended sweeping changes including to the party's bullying, sexual harassment and assault policies.

But Newshub has spoken to five people who say nothing has changed since then.

When asked if the Prime Minister has lived up to her promise, one of the complainants said: "Not at all."

Their complaints were investigated in March and no disciplinary action was taken. The man's lawyer says the allegations were untrue.

But after concerns were raised about the investigation, the party is now reviewing its processes - but not the outcome.

One of the complainants told Newshub they were "disappointed" with the Labour Party since "no action" had been taken.

"I'm really just disappointed that even though they were aware, there was no action taken, and it seems like this is happening over and we're going through the trauma of it again."

The complainant added: "I really don't have much faith that the party will do something."

Complainants have spoken of panic attacks, vomiting and having to take days off work because they were so scared of the staffer.

At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their Labour membership.

"We consider these people our family, our whānau, and it's really disappointing to see how we've been treated," the complainant said.

"You would hope that your family would look out for you and I've really been let down by it."

As far back as August 2018, Labour Party president Nigel Haworth was informed the staffer told a woman she was elected within the party because she "would be nice to sleep with".

He was also told a senior ministerial staffer had warned an alleged victim that if she told anyone about the staffer's behaviour she would be shut-down.

"It's really disappointing to see the Prime Minister's Office standing by," the complainant said. "They all knew and nothing's happening."

Newshub can reveal the Labour Party has been forced to review an internal investigation into bullying, sexual harassment and sexual assault by a Labour staffer.

It follows complaints the investigation process was botched and traumatising for the alleged victims. At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their membership as a result.



Seven party members and officials laid complaints this year accusing a senior Labour staffer of unacceptable behaviour ranging from bullying and intimidation to sexual harassment and sexual assault.

Their complaints were investigated in March and no disciplinary action was taken. The man's lawyer says the allegations were untrue.

But after concerns were raised about the investigation, the party is now reviewing its processes - but not the outcome.

One of the complainants told Newshub they were "disappointed" with the Labour Party since "no action" had been taken.

"I'm really just disappointed that even though they were aware, there was no action taken, and it seems like this is happening over and we're going through the trauma of it again."

The complainant added: "I really don't have much faith that the party will do something."

Complainants have spoken of panic attacks, vomiting and having to take days off work because they were so scared of the staffer.

At least four people have resigned from official party roles and cancelled their Labour membership.

"We consider these people our family, our whānau, and it's really disappointing to see how we've been treated," the complainant said.

"You would hope that your family would look out for you and I've really been let down by it."

As far back as August 2018, Labour Party president Nigel Haworth was informed the staffer told a woman she was elected within the party because she "would be nice to sleep with".

He was also told a senior ministerial staffer had warned an alleged victim that if she told anyone about the staffer's behaviour she would be shut-down.

"It's really disappointing to see the Prime Minister's Office standing by," the complainant said. "They all knew and nothing's happening."


Interviews took place on 9 March and the investigation wrapped up on 21 May. In June, the complainants say they were called about the outcome.

It wasn't until July 5 when the party president emailed complainants explaining that no action would be taken and that "there is no appeal process".

Leaked party emails show the alleged victims felt "left in the dark" from between the interviews and the conclusion.

"We've just lost hope," the complainant said.

Newshub has been investigating this story for nearly a month. The list of complaints about the party's process include:
  • -a lack of communication
    -complainants weren't shown transcripts of their testimonies to check for accuracy before they went to the alleged perpetrator, outing their names to him
    -the length of time to reply to complainants was "unacceptable", in some cases they got no response
    -concerns the internal party process could mean undue influence

:shock:
Apalling , has Jamie Lee been asked to comment?
Yes

He said "wibble" and put pencils up his nose
:lol:

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:08 pm
by grouch
Kahu wrote:Piggymana upping the ante tonight at Ihumātao. Funny how they can send a hundred officers to a peaceful protest but early hours of Sunday morning when my dickhead neighbour is bashing his Mrs they're understaffed and say to lay a complaint in the morning and to call back if the violence escalates
Do you think if Mr dickhead neighbour was posting intent on social media they'd be less 'risk averse' ?

My sympathies for you , mrs dickhead neighbour and the [imo] slightly misguided SOUL protestors

BUT
hopefully the blatant ignore of stated government protocols by the police will result in some serious hatchet work on their over-politicised management and we may actually get to see what is going on behind closed doors in the Royal commission enquiry into the Christchurch Massacre.

IMO the secrecy in which this enquiry is operating is the greatest political scandal in my lifetime.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:41 am
by jono45
brat wrote:
booji boy wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Tehui wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:Young women all over the world are infected with Jacindamania at the moment, and there are Joan of Arc LARPers popping up faster than the media can cover them. This trend has a fair way to run yet, as the various waves of post-modern feminism continue to flow through western education systems, and young girls are pumped full of grandiose ideas.
It's called ambition bro. Leave them to it. They're not taking anything away from you.
You say some really dumb things at times.

EDIT: You know what, I will rescind that comment. It was unnecessary. However I do find it frustrating that a go-to response from some of you guys is often along the lines of 'nothing really matters, and it's really uncool to think anything does.' It's hard to think of anything that has more of an impact on the lives of ordinary people than misplaced soaring ambition. That's one thing history tells us.
Really? Interesting. Please tell us more?
Hitler, Stalin?, now possibly trump
Prince Philip sprung to mind

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:19 am
by Dark
Winston points out to Labour who is actually running the country again.

:lol:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12256174
NZ First blindsides Andrew Little with talk of abortion referendum

New Zealand First has blindsided Justice Minister Andrew Little by suggesting it may call for a referendum on abortion law reform.

The Government this week unveiled its bill for an overhaul of abortion laws, with the legislation to go to its first reading in Parliament on Thursday.

The bill went through extensive talks with NZ First before being announced to improve its chances of passing, but MP Clayton Mitchell on Tuesday told reporters the party was likely to call for a referendum.

"We've had a good discussion about that at the moment and we're working through it but it's something NZ First believes should probably be a binding referendum issue," he said.

That came after NZ First MP and Minister Tracey Martin earlier in the day told Radio NZ there were no plans for a referendum - and after a meeting of the party's caucus.

NZ First leader Winston Peters wouldn't rule out calling for a referendum.

"This is on-going work and we'll let you know on Thursday when the vote happens," he told reporters.

"Referendums are what New Zealand First has stood for a long time when it comes to conscience issues. We don't have to raise it earlier. Everyone who has been dealing with us knows that."

But it was news to Little, who has been leading the reforms.

"In all the extensive discussions we've had it's never been raised with me," he said.

"It's a bit unusual it gets raised at this point. We've got the bill drafted as a result of the consultations we've had with them. I'm proceeding what we've got at the moment."

Little said he did not believe abortion was a referendum issue.

Martin, who has been speaking for NZ First on the legislation, denied the party had misled Little.

"It was never discussed so it wasn't an opportunity to mislead him," she said.

"It had never been discussed with me or by the New Zealand First caucus themselves during the whole negotiations, therefore it was never raised with Andrew Little."

Prior to this term in Government, NZ First and Martin said abortion could be a referendum issue.

It's not the first time Little has been taken by surprise by NZ First.

He also believed he had their support to repeal three-strikes criminal legislation, only to find out, at the last minute, he didn't.

National's Amy Adams, who has been working with Little to get support for the changes among Opposition MPs, was critical of the call for a referendum.

"I think if you're in Parliament, govern," she told reporters.

"Don't be cowards and send everything to referendums."

The bill is expected to pass when it goes to its first reading on Thursday, with some conservative MPs such as National leader Simon Bridges, saying they'd be willing to let a Select Committee consider it.

It is being held as a conscience vote, with MPs voting individually, rather than along party lines.

The most significant change in the law would see the current requirement for women trying to get abortions to get clearance from two doctors on physical or mental health grounds dropped, in favour of open access until 20 weeks' pregnancy.

After 20 weeks, the medical practitioner performing the procedure will have to give approval.

New Zealand First is also insisting on a referendum on David Seymour's End of Life Choice bill, which would legalise assisted dying for terminally ill adults.

A referendum is already being held at next year's election on recreational marijuana legalisation.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:51 am
by Auckman
Unemployment at an 11-year low - 3.9% and wages the highest rise in over a decade (4.4% boost).

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12256230

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:02 am
by MungoMan
Auckman wrote:Unemployment at an 11-year low - 3.9% and wages the highest rise in over a decade (4.4% boost).

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12256230
Talk me throught what you are doing wrong

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:46 am
by Auckman
MungoMan wrote:
Auckman wrote:Unemployment at an 11-year low - 3.9% and wages the highest rise in over a decade (4.4% boost).

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12256230
Talk me throught what you are doing wrong
The right-wing media say 3.9% unemployment is really a bad thing.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:01 am
by Auckman
Seneca of the Night wrote:
No, how about employers start making the adjustment to a higher wage economy.
:thumbup:

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:26 am
by sonic_attack
A lower unemployment rate will do it. Even then it will take some convincing.

The Kiwifruit industry a good example. They offer minimum wage, no job security, casual hours with no guarantee, and if accommodation is offered it costs a fortune, and they wonder why they have a staff shortage and run to the government screaming no one wants to pick kiwifruit. f**king pay more you cheap wit kant and folk will turn up, that's how a free market economy is supposed to work.

But we allow them to do it. Throw their hands up in the air and cry "No one want's minimum wage" and bail them out with Polynesian labour...

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:32 am
by Dark
sonic_attack wrote:A lower unemployment rate will do it. Even then it will take some convincing.

The Kiwifruit industry a good example. They offer minimum wage, no job security, casual hours with no guarantee, and if accommodation is offered it costs a fortune, and they wonder why they have a staff shortage and run to the government screaming no one wants to pick kiwifruit. f**king pay more you cheap plum and folk will turn up, that's how a free market economy is supposed to work.

But we allow them to do it. Throw their hands up in the air and cry "No one want's minimum wage" and bail them out with Polynesian labour...
Meanwhile back in 2019

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:48 am
by Dark
Tauranga, Bay of Plenty
$30,000 - $40,000 a year
We have permanent, positions available for orchard hands who are physically fit, enthusiastic, driven and passionate about growing kiwi fruit industry and are keen to be part of a motivated team.

Ideally the successful applicants will have :

Experience in Thinning, Pruning, Tree Planting and Harvesting OR experience in orchard equipment maintenance and repair
Grow safe certification would be an advantage
Have good general knowledge of tractors, sprayers and all other orchard machinery.
Experience is desired but we will offer ongoing development and training, a great company culture and the feel good factor of knowing you’re working for a company that genuinely cares for the environment, its community and its people.

We also welcome applications from candidates who want to take their first step into the Horticulture sector. We can offer ongoing training, which can lead into formal qualifications and a long and rewarding career in this exciting industry.

Applicants for this position should have NZ residency or a valid NZ work visa.

Duties include:

Picking,summer work and winter pruning
Stock management tasks
General warehouse tasks
What you'll have:

No previous experience required as full training will be given prior to your shift
Good numeracy skills
You will need to be physically fit as heavy lifting will be required as part of your duties
Ability to work at a consistently good pace
'Can do' attitude
Job Type: Full-time

Salary: $30,000.00 to $40,000.00 /year

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:56 am
by Dark
guy smiley wrote:Oh, a job ad. That must mean something, then.

Spoken to anyone who has any experience in the industry, at all?
It is more to go on than your opinion on an anonymous internet forum

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:02 am
by Ted.
Dark wrote:Labour shit themselves, after the Nat's cancer announcement and actually do something, how ever not what they promised.

Pretty funny

One of those things that really annoy me, cancer policy. If there was one thing you would think should be bi-partisan and just get together and formulate an agreed plan rather than playing politics, you would think cancer would be sitting at the toppish.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12255486

You mean poor old Soiman went into a fug when he realised that HE had nothing to counteract the long in the planning cancer policy that was about to be announced, so instead of settling back and picking it off bit by bit, HE shit himself and the bed with a half arsed, hurriedly slapped together, copycat policy. Well done simple.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:04 am
by Dark
guy smiley wrote:
Dark wrote:
guy smiley wrote:Oh, a job ad. That must mean something, then.

Spoken to anyone who has any experience in the industry, at all?
It is more to go on than your opinion on an anonymous internet forum
I worked in a packing shed near Tauranga for laughs this last season.

What would you like to know?

Not a lot. I did fruit picking when I was young. Pay was pretty crap, but it was years ago.

Times and needs change when you can't find many kiwis to pull finger.

Wages and conditions tend to go up.

Unless you are saying the Ardern govt is letting people work for less than minimum wage, in shit conditions and aren't doing anything about it?

This is a shocking revelation

And the Greens support them?

What is going on with this lot?

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:05 am
by deadduck
$30k-$40k per year is f*ck all really. Btw, a "fulltime" job paying only $30k per year is below minimum wage.

But you know, it's a fact of a primary industry based economy almost entirely reliant on exports, that if the industry wamts to be price competitive in overseas markets they have to keep costs down.

In kiwifruit for example, NZ is competing against the likes of Chile, a country with more favourable growing climate and lower wages for the pickers.

Getting the balance wrong with commodity prices vs production costs can drive farmers to change to more productive products - hence the epidemic of dairy conversions in the last 20 years. My uncle who used to be a kiwifruit grower ditched it ages ago, now his farm is a free-range pork farm.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:13 am
by Dark
Full time is anything 30 hours a week or over, so it is over the minimum, but just under 20 bucks an hour.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:11 pm
by sonic_attack
I'm talking about the harvest. Not a full time orchard job.

I did it too when I was 16-17 in BOP for a season. Was fine at that age because we just smoked pot and har ested gold tops. As an adult though it's a bit of a stretch to drop whatever you're doing to go chase minimum wage for the work you do in a short time frame of roughly 8-10 weeks if you're able to get work right through.

Not that you would expect to be making millions, but really they can do better than offer minimum for the scale and conditions on offer. Just for that particular industry alone given the scale of it.

If you need labour to bring your product to market, but don't offer a wage that folk find attractive enough to drop what they're doing and help you harvest and your fruit rots on the vine, that's pretty much your own fault and you have an unsustainable business model.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:16 pm
by Dark
guy smiley wrote:
Dark wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Dark wrote:
guy smiley wrote:Oh, a job ad. That must mean something, then.

Spoken to anyone who has any experience in the industry, at all?
It is more to go on than your opinion on an anonymous internet forum
I worked in a packing shed near Tauranga for laughs this last season.

What would you like to know?

Not a lot. I did fruit picking when I was young. Pay was pretty crap, but it was years ago.

Times and needs change when you can't find many kiwis to pull finger.

Wages and conditions tend to go up.

Unless you are saying the Ardern govt is letting people work for less than minimum wage, in shit conditions and aren't doing anything about it?

This is a shocking revelation

And the Greens support them?

What is going on with this lot?
Saying you’re a silly cnut is too kind.
I'm not the one making shit up about employee conditions with zero evidence.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:18 pm
by Dark
sonic_attack wrote:I'm talking about the harvest. Not a full time orchard job.

I did it too when I was 16-17 in BOP for a season. Was fine at that age because we just smoked pot and har ested gold tops. As an adult though it's a bit of a stretch to drop whatever you're doing to go chase minimum wage for the work you do in a short time frame of roughly 8-10 weeks if you're able to get work right through.

Not that you would expect to be making millions, but really they can do better than offer minimum for the scale and conditions on offer. Just for that particular industry alone given the scale of it.

If you need labour to bring your product to market, but don't offer a wage that folk find attractive enough to drop what they're doing and help you harvest and your fruit rots on the vine, that's pretty much your own fault and you have an unsustainable business model.
That is fine and I tend to agree, but it means these businesses need off shore labour if kiwis don't think pretty much 20 bucks an hour is worth it.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:24 pm
by sonic_attack
He just said he worked in a packhouse the season just gone. That gives him at least an insight and probably more knowledge than the average cabbage.

If imported labour with guaranteed hours at the expense of locals who are offered casual employment with no guarantee, it does kind of make a mockery of the system we exist in.

It seems there's a cop-out clause to maintain low wages.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:25 pm
by Mr Mike
Dark wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:I'm talking about the harvest. Not a full time orchard job.

I did it too when I was 16-17 in BOP for a season. Was fine at that age because we just smoked pot and har ested gold tops. As an adult though it's a bit of a stretch to drop whatever you're doing to go chase minimum wage for the work you do in a short time frame of roughly 8-10 weeks if you're able to get work right through.

Not that you would expect to be making millions, but really they can do better than offer minimum for the scale and conditions on offer. Just for that particular industry alone given the scale of it.

If you need labour to bring your product to market, but don't offer a wage that folk find attractive enough to drop what they're doing and help you harvest and your fruit rots on the vine, that's pretty much your own fault and you have an unsustainable business model.
That is fine and I tend to agree, but it means these businesses need off shore labour if kiwis don't think pretty much 20 bucks an hour is worth it.
yep. As long as there aren’t artificial import barriers then the market should react logically to reward any comparative advantage places like Chile enjoy to produce kiwi fruit (or other goods and services at a lower opportunity cost) than NZ. As long as you don’t own a farm, work on one or supply goods or services to related markets, then it’s all upside you can enjoy cheaper vitamin C rich Chinese Gooseberries from Chile.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:36 pm
by sonic_attack
Dark wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:I'm talking about the harvest. Not a full time orchard job.

I did it too when I was 16-17 in BOP for a season. Was fine at that age because we just smoked pot and har ested gold tops. As an adult though it's a bit of a stretch to drop whatever you're doing to go chase minimum wage for the work you do in a short time frame of roughly 8-10 weeks if you're able to get work right through.

Not that you would expect to be making millions, but really they can do better than offer minimum for the scale and conditions on offer. Just for that particular industry alone given the scale of it.

If you need labour to bring your product to market, but don't offer a wage that folk find attractive enough to drop what they're doing and help you harvest and your fruit rots on the vine, that's pretty much your own fault and you have an unsustainable business model.
That is fine and I tend to agree, but it means these businesses need off shore labour if kiwis don't think pretty much 20 bucks an hour is worth it.
No. It means the pay doesn't reflect the work and work conditions to attract labour.

Saying "this is what I'm paying" and having no one show up to accept it doesn't give reason to seek a cheap labour source specifically for your unsustainable business model.

Rob Muldoon isn't prime minister. Its not 1983. There's no price or wage freeze. NZ labour had unions and collective bargaining taken from them in place of a free market economy and individual employment contracts. We either have a free market economy or we don't.

The whole idea is supply and demand. When the demand is there and supply is short, then the price rises. Its the same for wages.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:36 pm
by Dark
sonic_attack wrote:He just said he worked in a packhorse the season just gone. That gives him at least an insight and probably more knowledge than the average cabbage.

If imported labour with guaranteed hours at the expense of locals who are offered casual employment with no guarantee, it does kind of make a mockery of the system we exist in.

It seems there's a cop-out clause to maintain low wages.

And if you could just provide evidence of these one off contracts to off shore workers guaranteeing hours, while avoiding actual kiwi equivalent workers who you know you can actually keep as a long term employee, I will admit I am wrong in a heart beat.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:55 pm
by Dark
guy smiley wrote:
Dark wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:He just said he worked in a packhorse the season just gone. That gives him at least an insight and probably more knowledge than the average cabbage.

If imported labour with guaranteed hours at the expense of locals who are offered casual employment with no guarantee, it does kind of make a mockery of the system we exist in.

It seems there's a cop-out clause to maintain low wages.

And if you could just provide evidence of these one off contracts to off shore workers guaranteeing hours, while avoiding actual kiwi equivalent workers who you know you can actually keep as a long term employee, I will admit I am wrong in a heart beat.
Well, I basically told you that was the case outside Tauranga just a few months ago...

Because I was there and I saw it.

What sonic said, by the way. We hear about the ‘market’ all the time but somehow, labour is placed outside that and wages never reflect demand.
Ok.

I am willing to accept you saw this in one situation. Sounds like a nasty employer.

But unless the govt is ignoring an entire industry screwing workers that is what it was.

Given the govt have done zero with immigration (even though Winston wanted to drop it to 10k and Labour promised to drop it by 30k and neither have ever mentioned it again), I am guessing it isn't an industry wide issue.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:59 pm
by sonic_attack
Dark wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:He just said he worked in a packhorse the season just gone. That gives him at least an insight and probably more knowledge than the average cabbage.

If imported labour with guaranteed hours at the expense of locals who are offered casual employment with no guarantee, it does kind of make a mockery of the system we exist in.

It seems there's a cop-out clause to maintain low wages.

And if you could just provide evidence of these one off contracts to off shore workers guaranteeing hours, while avoiding actual kiwi equivalent workers who you know you can actually keep as a long term employee, I will admit I am wrong in a heart beat.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12053443
The Government's Recognised Seasonal Employer (RSE) scheme allows the horticulture and viticulture industries to recruit workers from overseas for seasonal work when there are not enough New Zealand workers. The programme caps RSE places each year. Immigration New Zealand reports the cap started at 5000 in 2007 and was increased to 11,100 in December 2017.

Langi Fatanitavake from Tonga is one of the team leaders at Trevelyan's. For the past 11 years, he's spent six months working the apple crop in Hawke's Bay under the RSE programme. Trevelyan's asked his other employer, Mr Apple, if they'd send a crew north for five or six weeks when apple season finished.

This is Fatanitavake's first year working kiwifruit. He says he sends home $500 each week for his wife and child, and makes enough money in New Zealand in seven months to last all year.

"In Tonga, it's very hard, the work in Tonga. I like to help my family and my team. It's a better job and I'm very happy and enjoy the job and the boys is coming to work and the boys are very happy to be here."

Trevelyan's had employees from 42 countries last year, and expects similar numbers this year.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:04 pm
by Dark
sonic_attack wrote:
Dark wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:He just said he worked in a packhorse the season just gone. That gives him at least an insight and probably more knowledge than the average cabbage.

If imported labour with guaranteed hours at the expense of locals who are offered casual employment with no guarantee, it does kind of make a mockery of the system we exist in.

It seems there's a cop-out clause to maintain low wages.

And if you could just provide evidence of these one off contracts to off shore workers guaranteeing hours, while avoiding actual kiwi equivalent workers who you know you can actually keep as a long term employee, I will admit I am wrong in a heart beat.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12053443
The Government's Recognised Seasonal Employer (RSE) scheme allows the horticulture and viticulture industries to recruit workers from overseas for seasonal work when there are not enough New Zealand workers. The programme caps RSE places each year. Immigration New Zealand reports the cap started at 5000 in 2007 and was increased to 11,100 in December 2017.

Langi Fatanitavake from Tonga is one of the team leaders at Trevelyan's. For the past 11 years, he's spent six months working the apple crop in Hawke's Bay under the RSE programme. Trevelyan's asked his other employer, Mr Apple, if they'd send a crew north for five or six weeks when apple season finished.

This is Fatanitavake's first year working kiwifruit. He says he sends home $500 each week for his wife and child, and makes enough money in New Zealand in seven months to last all year.

"In Tonga, it's very hard, the work in Tonga. I like to help my family and my team. It's a better job and I'm very happy and enjoy the job and the boys is coming to work and the boys are very happy to be here."

Trevelyan's had employees from 42 countries last year, and expects similar numbers this year.
Not sure how that shows they were by-passing kiwis wanting the jobs.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:05 pm
by Dark
guy smiley wrote:
Dark wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Dark wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:He just said he worked in a packhorse the season just gone. That gives him at least an insight and probably more knowledge than the average cabbage.

If imported labour with guaranteed hours at the expense of locals who are offered casual employment with no guarantee, it does kind of make a mockery of the system we exist in.

It seems there's a cop-out clause to maintain low wages.

And if you could just provide evidence of these one off contracts to off shore workers guaranteeing hours, while avoiding actual kiwi equivalent workers who you know you can actually keep as a long term employee, I will admit I am wrong in a heart beat.
Well, I basically told you that was the case outside Tauranga just a few months ago...

Because I was there and I saw it.

What sonic said, by the way. We hear about the ‘market’ all the time but somehow, labour is placed outside that and wages never reflect demand.
Ok.

I am willing to accept you saw this in one situation. Sounds like a nasty employer.

But unless the govt is ignoring an entire industry screwing workers that is what it was.

Given the govt have done zero with immigration (even though Winston wanted to drop it to 10k and Labour promised to drop it by 30k and neither have ever mentioned it again), I am guessing it isn't an industry wide issue.
Yeah. Because saying you’re a silly cnut would be too kind.
You can't have it both ways Sherlock

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:43 pm
by sonic_attack
It's not the government turning a blind eye to an industry. It's the government being complicit and content to allow the path they created 40 years ago to continue without intervention, or driving a path out of it.

Low wages are good for business. Shows better productivity and profitability. That's good for investment when NZ needed it. What it also shows is the gulfing chasm of divide it creates in apportioning the wealth created, and how detrimental that is to society overall.

When a low wage economy is created, the only way out that causes the least harm overall is the competition for labour in an environment where Labour is in short supply.

Allowing cheap labour to be imported just keeps the cycle going. In a higher wage economy obviously business profit is lower overall but more people are happy and healthy.

At the far end of this experiment NZ has been running for 35 years is a violent slum, when people get desperate. We see the transition there already, not visually but it's behind the front door in communities already.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:20 pm
by Mr Mike
guy smiley wrote:What sonic said, by the way. We hear about the ‘market’ all the time but somehow, labour is placed outside that and wages never reflect demand.
however there is also a supply side discussion concerning the distortion of the labor market resulting from barriers to the free movement of labor.

The questions isn’t whether we will accept distortion of the market, it is simply which ones do we want to accept for a particular “greater good”?

Preservation of some local primary industries has been seen as a compelling rationale for some distortion, both to provide returns for owners and to provide employment for otherwise “uncompetitive” unskilled locals by maintaining labor practices which limit the market for workers to locals or strongly regulated imported labor.

Market purists would want both distortions abandoned.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:56 pm
by Kahu
grouch wrote:
Kahu wrote:Piggymana upping the ante tonight at Ihumātao. Funny how they can send a hundred officers to a peaceful protest but early hours of Sunday morning when my dickhead neighbour is bashing his Mrs they're understaffed and say to lay a complaint in the morning and to call back if the violence escalates
Do you think if Mr dickhead neighbour was posting intent on social media they'd be less 'risk averse' ?

My sympathies for you , mrs dickhead neighbour and the [imo] slightly misguided SOUL protestors

BUT
hopefully the blatant ignore of stated government protocols by the police will result in some serious hatchet work on their over-politicised management and we may actually get to see what is going on behind closed doors in the Royal commission enquiry into the Christchurch Massacre.

IMO the secrecy in which this enquiry is operating is the greatest political scandal in my lifetime.
Hmm I'll reserve judgement for now but I think it is concerning, as is the alleged use of phone blocking equipment at Ihumātao.

Open and most transparent government? Seems like it is anything but

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:13 am
by farmerdave
Quite happy to pay millions for orchards but the idea of paying a couple of dollars above minimum wage is just plan stupid.
I've worked in the industry and it's very similar to dairy farming, screw the wages down, aim for capital gain as it's tax free. Easy to understand philosophy really. Complete bollocks long term.

Re: NZ Politics Thread

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:41 am
by grouch
Dark wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:I'm talking about the harvest. Not a full time orchard job.

I did it too when I was 16-17 in BOP for a season. Was fine at that age because we just smoked pot and har ested gold tops. As an adult though it's a bit of a stretch to drop whatever you're doing to go chase minimum wage for the work you do in a short time frame of roughly 8-10 weeks if you're able to get work right through.

Not that you would expect to be making millions, but really they can do better than offer minimum for the scale and conditions on offer. Just for that particular industry alone given the scale of it.

If you need labour to bring your product to market, but don't offer a wage that folk find attractive enough to drop what they're doing and help you harvest and your fruit rots on the vine, that's pretty much your own fault and you have an unsustainable business model.
That is fine and I tend to agree, but it means these businesses need off shore labour if kiwis don't think pretty much 20 bucks an hour is worth it.
Who pays $20 /hour?