Planet Rugby Forum

grouch wrote:

Dark wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:I'm talking about the harvest. Not a full time orchard job.

I did it too when I was 16-17 in BOP for a season. Was fine at that age because we just smoked pot and har ested gold tops. As an adult though it's a bit of a stretch to drop whatever you're doing to go chase minimum wage for the work you do in a short time frame of roughly 8-10 weeks if you're able to get work right through.

Not that you would expect to be making millions, but really they can do better than offer minimum for the scale and conditions on offer. Just for that particular industry alone given the scale of it.

If you need labour to bring your product to market, but don't offer a wage that folk find attractive enough to drop what they're doing and help you harvest and your fruit rots on the vine, that's pretty much your own fault and you have an unsustainable business model.

That is fine and I tend to agree, but it means these businesses need off shore labour if kiwis don't think pretty much 20 bucks an hour is worth it.

Who pays $20 /hour?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farmin ... 50-an-hour

But the person in the article wouldn't sleep in a tent, so said it wasn't worth it.

Is this the sort of behaviour we can expect from the "most open and transparent government"?

Ombudsman to investigate Julie Anne Genter's refusal to release letter to Transport Minister Phil Twyford

City councillors claim Green Party agreement used as leverage to get agreement on Let's Get Wellington Moving

Dark wrote:

grouch wrote:

Dark wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:I'm talking about the harvest. Not a full time orchard job.

I did it too when I was 16-17 in BOP for a season. Was fine at that age because we just smoked pot and har ested gold tops. As an adult though it's a bit of a stretch to drop whatever you're doing to go chase minimum wage for the work you do in a short time frame of roughly 8-10 weeks if you're able to get work right through.

Not that you would expect to be making millions, but really they can do better than offer minimum for the scale and conditions on offer. Just for that particular industry alone given the scale of it.

If you need labour to bring your product to market, but don't offer a wage that folk find attractive enough to drop what they're doing and help you harvest and your fruit rots on the vine, that's pretty much your own fault and you have an unsustainable business model.

That is fine and I tend to agree, but it means these businesses need off shore labour if kiwis don't think pretty much 20 bucks an hour is worth it.

Who pays $20 /hour?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farmin ... 50-an-hour

But the person in the article wouldn't sleep in a tent, so said it wasn't worth it.

Counter quote

While a kiwifruit industry group said its surveying showed an expected average picking rate this season of $23.50 an hour, a worker advocate disputed this, saying that as picking was often at piece rates some slower pickers were falling below minimum wage.

And even this is slanted towards the employer line in the rest of the article.

The truth is , it's poorly paid piece work and has depended on illegal foreign labour who accept living in sub-standard and over-crowded accommodation because it's better than sh*thole they were recruited from or they're eurotrash 'freedom' camping in BS self-contained vans sleeping in public places and using ratepayer provided public amenities or defecating in the shrubbery.

I can cherry pick articles too.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farmin ... eason?rm=a

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49238749

The more and more that article gets repeated, and keeps getting repeated, and keeps getting repeated, and the longer it gets ignored, and the longer we don't do anything about looking at an escape route with this industry propping up practically the entire country...

My fear is, eventually, before we transition or make an attempt to be less reliant on dairy or stock, it's all going to crash in a heap. It's entirely possible that we will walk into a time where beef and lamb aren't as popular as they are now. It's entirely possible that down the track folk will look at these in an entirely different light and it'll all be worth nothing.
I personally reckon it's a slippery slope. Science agree's. I love steak, dairy and lamb, I eat the stuff all the time. I'm convinced though, down the line, the calls to stop will come and they'll come louder and louder, that whole gig of diet V planet is pretty shaky IMO.

When the population of the planet start looking harder and harder, and we have a nation buried neck deep in dairy and dry stock there could be trouble for everyone.

So now we've got Genter lying about letters and refusing to make them public; Cabinet appearing to ignore TEC advice on the proposed centralisation programme; Winston undermining Little and questioning Labour's good faith; and apparently Labour advising women to not frequent certain parts of Parliament as a response to the bad touching scandal.

This is undoubtedly a shit government. That have achieved nothing other than lurching from one incompetent episode to another. They've got a lot of goodwill to burn since there was such a huge move against National, and boy are they burning it. But I'm starting to wonder if they're doing such a poor job that they're setting themselves for another 3 terms in Opposition when they finally get the boot.

It is a shambles.

sonic_attack wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49238749

The more and more that article gets repeated, and keeps getting repeated, and keeps getting repeated, and the longer it gets ignored, and the longer we don't do anything about looking at an escape route with this industry propping up practically the entire country...

My fear is, eventually, before we transition or make an attempt to be less reliant on dairy or stock, it's all going to crash in a heap. It's entirely possible that we will walk into a time where beef and lamb aren't as popular as they are now. It's entirely possible that down the track folk will look at these in an entirely different light and it'll all be worth nothing.
I personally reckon it's a slippery slope. Science agree's. I love steak, dairy and lamb, I eat the stuff all the time. I'm convinced though, down the line, the calls to stop will come and they'll come louder and louder, that whole gig of diet V planet is pretty shaky IMO.

When the population of the planet start looking harder and harder, and we have a nation buried neck deep in dairy and dry stock there could be trouble for everyone.

In all the doom and gloom, there is an opportunity to corner the market on low-carbon protein with the right technological breakthroughs. Not that addressing methane emissions will be a panacea for beef and sheep farming, but it will go a long way to mitigating the carbon emissions associated with dairy, beef, and sheep meat. The right cattle genetics will start to be a value-add right through to the checkout if consumers start buying with a preference for low-carbon products.

If I have to choose between bacon and the planet, bacon is going to win.

I'm sorry, but that is just the way it is.

Fat Old Git wrote:If I have to choose between bacon and the planet, bacon is going to win.

I'm sorry, but that is just the way it is.

Is that how Muldoon got in?

Tehui wrote:

Fat Old Git wrote:If I have to choose between bacon and the planet, bacon is going to win.

I'm sorry, but that is just the way it is.

Is that how Muldoon got in?

Hard to tell. Was he the bacon or a small planet?

guy smiley wrote:

deadduck wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49238749

The more and more that article gets repeated, and keeps getting repeated, and keeps getting repeated, and the longer it gets ignored, and the longer we don't do anything about looking at an escape route with this industry propping up practically the entire country...

My fear is, eventually, before we transition or make an attempt to be less reliant on dairy or stock, it's all going to crash in a heap. It's entirely possible that we will walk into a time where beef and lamb aren't as popular as they are now. It's entirely possible that down the track folk will look at these in an entirely different light and it'll all be worth nothing.
I personally reckon it's a slippery slope. Science agree's. I love steak, dairy and lamb, I eat the stuff all the time. I'm convinced though, down the line, the calls to stop will come and they'll come louder and louder, that whole gig of diet V planet is pretty shaky IMO.

When the population of the planet start looking harder and harder, and we have a nation buried neck deep in dairy and dry stock there could be trouble for everyone.

In all the doom and gloom, there is an opportunity to corner the market on low-carbon protein with the right technological breakthroughs. Not that addressing methane emissions will be a panacea for beef and sheep farming, but it will go a long way to mitigating the carbon emissions associated with dairy, beef, and sheep meat. The right cattle genetics will start to be a value-add right through to the checkout if consumers start buying with a preference for low-carbon products.

The overall damage that livestock farming causes will likely tip the scales towards plant based protein sources if we do start moving towards market driven type scenarios, surely? The amount of land needed for intensive high yield type cropping is far less than equivalent livestock while there’s no waste run off to contend with. NZ has an opportunity to dive into that type of farming now and set up a more sustainable food production industry... but the dominant voices in the sector can only complain about not having the tools.

I don't think there is ever going to be one single solution. Farmers will have to think about how to best utilise the land that they have appropriately.

Not all land is economical or practical for cropping. Plenty of farmland in NZ falls into that category. Similarly, there's plenty of farmland that probably shouldn't be used for grazing and should be cropped.

Yup. Some point of difference anyway. That's why I mention Organic a few pages back, it wouldn't do much for the methane emissions but it can be passed as a sustainable model of best intention, probably debatable if there's value added in that, I believe so but would probably be an easy answer for Hareway. If there are other possibilities then look at everything.

Either way, its time for a good look at what we're doing. Having the conversation at least, and planning an exit route.

The comment GS makes is one we all know about, you have to assume the rest of the world will learn it at some stage too.

I have a client that grows "micro greens" in his backyard of traditional old 1/4 acre. Garnish on plates for the restaurant industry.

Cost of startup practically zilch. He just grows under those pvc half round tunnels.

Organic farming isn't necessarily any more sustainable than non-organic farming.

deadduck wrote:Organic farming isn't necessarily any more sustainable than non-organic farming.

There's definitely some benefit. They probably aren't coating the place in nitrogen for starters. I think it'd be hard to argue organic farming is as destructive or doesn't make a difference to the carbon footprint of the intensive dairy farming we're into currently. Could you offset the argument of greenhouses gas emissions of dairy farming / dry stock by producing an organic product? I reckon it'd be a lot easier to convince a skeptical population eating an organic product is better than a GE cow produced in a lab grown on GE modified grasses, but that's just me.

sonic_attack wrote:

deadduck wrote:Organic farming isn't necessarily any more sustainable than non-organic farming.

There's definitely some benefit. They probably aren't coating the place in nitrogen for starters. I think it'd be hard to argue organic farming is as destructive or doesn't make a difference to the carbon footprint of the intensive dairy farming we're into currently. Could you offset the argument of greenhouses gas emissions of dairy farming / dry stock by producing an organic product? I reckon it'd be a lot easier to convince a skeptical population eating an organic product is better than a GE cow produced in a lab grown on GE modified grasses, but that's just me.

I mean right now people actively look for organic produce to live on. Did the world even have an organic industry in the 1950's?

Not saying organic is the answer, I don't know enough, but I know folk are looking at it. I do and I was practically born on a dairy farm.

sonic_attack wrote:

deadduck wrote:Organic farming isn't necessarily any more sustainable than non-organic farming.

There's definitely some benefit. They probably aren't coating the place in nitrogen for starters. I think it'd be hard to argue organic farming is as destructive or doesn't make a difference to the carbon footprint of the intensive dairy farming we're into currently. Could you offset the argument of greenhouses gas emissions of dairy farming / dry stock by producing an organic product? I reckon it'd be a lot easier to convince a skeptical population eating an organic product is better than a GE cow produced in a lab grown on GE modified grasses, but that's just me.

It's pretty obvious if you compare a small organic farm to a huge dairy farm that of course the larger, more intensive farm raising animals will have a larger impact on the environment. But an organic farm is not innately better for the environment than an equivalent non-organic farm just because it uses "naturally" sourced fertilisers, herbicides and pesticides. I put "naturally" in brackets because these guys are putting stuff like guano on their fields instead of superphosphate, which is made from fossilised guano, and fishmeal instead of ammonium nitrate etc, which is converted by the plants and soil into nitrates so it all comes out the same anyway.

Both will leach nitrogen and to a smaller degree phosphorus if they're not carefully managed. It's an inescapable fact that crops need nitrogen and phosphorus to grow, and they are gradually depleted from the soil over time. You can reduce the use of fertiliser with some clever crop rotations but you'll need some eventually otherwise you'll end up with barren land. The expectation that an organic conversion will solve all of the water problems is misplaced, I reckon there is much more to be gained by cleverer farm, pasture and water management and that's the area the likes of Fonterra have had by far the most success in in the last 15 years in terms of reducing the impact of dairying on water quality.

On a completely different “political” topic...

I’m off to Japan to play in the New Zealand Parliamentary Rugby World Cup!

Congrats, not much beats that really. Presumably you get a seat at all the All Black games?

sonic_attack wrote:Congrats, not much beats that really. Presumably you get a seat at all the All Black games?

Alas only the opening game v Boks....have to get back home for work the next day.

kiweez wrote:On a completely different “political” topic...

I’m off to Japan to play in the New Zealand Parliamentary Rugby World Cup!

Nice!

Lot of interest over the ditch in the .5% rate drop . Basically feel that its an unfair start in the race to the bottom f or currencies . With the need for 4 -5% of drops to restart an economy out of recession looks like NZ will be QEing, running negative interest rates and bail ins with the best of them. Australia to follow.

Brenton Tarrants hateful letter.
Just to confirm the construe of what hateful reaches to.

Hardly the call to arms some commentators have been making it out to be.

It would be nice to see him cut off completely and starved of oxygen but then you'd have the human rights lawyers crawling all over it and he would probably end up getting even more publicity.

deadduck wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:

deadduck wrote:Organic farming isn't necessarily any more sustainable than non-organic farming.

There's definitely some benefit. They probably aren't coating the place in nitrogen for starters. I think it'd be hard to argue organic farming is as destructive or doesn't make a difference to the carbon footprint of the intensive dairy farming we're into currently. Could you offset the argument of greenhouses gas emissions of dairy farming / dry stock by producing an organic product? I reckon it'd be a lot easier to convince a skeptical population eating an organic product is better than a GE cow produced in a lab grown on GE modified grasses, but that's just me.

It's pretty obvious if you compare a small organic farm to a huge dairy farm that of course the larger, more intensive farm raising animals will have a larger impact on the environment. But an organic farm is not innately better for the environment than an equivalent non-organic farm just because it uses "naturally" sourced fertilisers, herbicides and pesticides. I put "naturally" in brackets because these guys are putting stuff like guano on their fields instead of superphosphate, which is made from fossilised guano, and fishmeal instead of ammonium nitrate etc, which is converted by the plants and soil into nitrates so it all comes out the same anyway.

Both will leach nitrogen and to a smaller degree phosphorus if they're not carefully managed. It's an inescapable fact that crops need nitrogen and phosphorus to grow, and they are gradually depleted from the soil over time. You can reduce the use of fertiliser with some clever crop rotations but you'll need some eventually otherwise you'll end up with barren land. The expectation that an organic conversion will solve all of the water problems is misplaced, I reckon there is much more to be gained by cleverer farm, pasture and water management and that's the area the likes of Fonterra have had by far the most success in in the last 15 years in terms of reducing the impact of dairying on water quality.

Riparian planting- but Fonterra et al don't want to know about it.

Fascism Today:

How many Judicial procedures are currently being held in "secret" , whereby the Public interest /"right to know' about "Crimes" and how our system of Justice and Governance is investigating and applying the laws of the land for the benefit of society.

I'm deeply concerned that a Royal Commission of Enquiry into the circumstances leading up to and the responses to the tragic massacre in Christchurch are being conducted beyond public scrutiny.

More on this later.

Of more immediate interest is the utterly bizarre circumstances surrounding the Police and their investigation into Hager/Whaleoil etc and their obtaining of an individuals bank records without search warrant or legal production order.

Currently , Martin Bradbury , Journalist is challenging the legal veracity of the Tribunal investigating the alleged breach , which is conducting the investigation in secrecy and is prepared to hear "secret" evidence from the Police/Crown which they are refusing to reveal to Bradbury and his counsel .

As a consequence Bradbury/Counsel have no means to present a counter submission /argument as they are completely unaware of what facts/allegations the Crown is making.

It's complex, and like many I'm not a 100% supporter of Martin Bradbury, but he is a journalist many years experience and he , like the rest of his trade have an important role in our society.

If it looks like, smells like , tastes like Fascism can the case be made that we are rapidly becoming a society without checks and balances to ensure that individual rights are not completely erased.

The Police have submitted secret evidence to the Human Rights Review Tribunal in pre-hearing papers, neither I nor my Lawyer Graeme Edgeler were aware of this, so before the hearing into not allowing the Police to hold a secret trial with secret evidence, Crown Law would like to brief the Tribunal with their secret Police evidence.

I know.

Somewhere Kafka is laughing.

The Tribunal are struggling with the Crown Law request.

If they allow the Police to present their secret evidence at the hearing to decide whether or not the Police can hold a secret trial with secret evidence, then what the hell are all doing here?

The Tribunal decide that they will hear the argument about whether or not the Police can gain the powers of a medieval feudal lord before the Police can impact that hearing with their secret evidence. It is put aside and sealed.

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/08/14/k ... et-trials/

Maniototo Man wrote:Hardly the call to arms some commentators have been making it out to be.

It would be nice to see him cut off completely and starved of oxygen but then you'd have the human rights lawyers crawling all over it and he would probably end up getting even more publicity.

I refuse to read it. Glad it's spoilered and a shame it was posted here at all, quite frankly.

Bradbury a journalist of many years? What publications has he written for other than blogs? Rip it Up magazine The one they used to give out free at McDonalds...

To be fair, Ripitup was a decent mag back in the day. Just got ruined with the internet and they turned to advertising to try rescue the collapse, which just aided in sending it further off the edge.

That was back when "The Listener" was a thing, covering X3 TV channels

deadduck wrote:Bradbury a journalist of many years? What publications has he written for other than blogs? Rip it Up magazine The one they used to give out free at McDonalds...

So if it's not written on paper it's not journalism?

Regardless of his Journalistic qualities or qualifications , he is most definitely an integral part of the 4th estate in NZ .

It wouldn't matter if he was flipping burgers at Mcdonalds , what he is going through in the absurd machinations of spook law is not to be ignored or dismissed.

Maniototo Man wrote:Hardly the call to arms some commentators have been making it out to be.

It would be nice to see him cut off completely and starved of oxygen but then you'd have the human rights lawyers crawling all over it and he would probably end up getting even more publicity.

These people speak in codes. A lot of that letter seems pretty stock standard "how is your day" stuff but I'm willing to bet there is some mild coded language in there that only those terrorists understand. The last line is not even disguised as apparently it is a "call to arms" to white supremacists globally.

deadduck wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49238749

The more and more that article gets repeated, and keeps getting repeated, and keeps getting repeated, and the longer it gets ignored, and the longer we don't do anything about looking at an escape route with this industry propping up practically the entire country...

My fear is, eventually, before we transition or make an attempt to be less reliant on dairy or stock, it's all going to crash in a heap. It's entirely possible that we will walk into a time where beef and lamb aren't as popular as they are now. It's entirely possible that down the track folk will look at these in an entirely different light and it'll all be worth nothing.
I personally reckon it's a slippery slope. Science agree's. I love steak, dairy and lamb, I eat the stuff all the time. I'm convinced though, down the line, the calls to stop will come and they'll come louder and louder, that whole gig of diet V planet is pretty shaky IMO.

When the population of the planet start looking harder and harder, and we have a nation buried neck deep in dairy and dry stock there could be trouble for everyone.

In all the doom and gloom, there is an opportunity to corner the market on low-carbon protein with the right technological breakthroughs. Not that addressing methane emissions will be a panacea for beef and sheep farming, but it will go a long way to mitigating the carbon emissions associated with dairy, beef, and sheep meat. The right cattle genetics will start to be a value-add right through to the checkout if consumers start buying with a preference for low-carbon products.

Most drystock farms sequesters at least double the carbon from the atmosphere than they produce....so we can expect to be paid for this i presume .
Farming is an easy target but if you start to mention the massive damage being done by Air Travel the room goes a bit quiet , cant miss out on our holidays ...

Hareaway wrote:

deadduck wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49238749

The more and more that article gets repeated, and keeps getting repeated, and keeps getting repeated, and the longer it gets ignored, and the longer we don't do anything about looking at an escape route with this industry propping up practically the entire country...

My fear is, eventually, before we transition or make an attempt to be less reliant on dairy or stock, it's all going to crash in a heap. It's entirely possible that we will walk into a time where beef and lamb aren't as popular as they are now. It's entirely possible that down the track folk will look at these in an entirely different light and it'll all be worth nothing.
I personally reckon it's a slippery slope. Science agree's. I love steak, dairy and lamb, I eat the stuff all the time. I'm convinced though, down the line, the calls to stop will come and they'll come louder and louder, that whole gig of diet V planet is pretty shaky IMO.

When the population of the planet start looking harder and harder, and we have a nation buried neck deep in dairy and dry stock there could be trouble for everyone.

In all the doom and gloom, there is an opportunity to corner the market on low-carbon protein with the right technological breakthroughs. Not that addressing methane emissions will be a panacea for beef and sheep farming, but it will go a long way to mitigating the carbon emissions associated with dairy, beef, and sheep meat. The right cattle genetics will start to be a value-add right through to the checkout if consumers start buying with a preference for low-carbon products.

Most drystock farms sequesters at least double the carbon from the atmosphere than they produce....so we can expect to be paid for this i presume .
Farming is an easy target but if you start to mention the massive damage being done by Air Travel the room goes a bit quiet , cant miss out on our holidays ...

Basically anything that'll deny us convenience.
It's easy to argue for both too. Dairy and meat is our diet, and planes are how we get to spend 3 weeks in Indonesia instead of 3 weeks getting there on a boat.

sonic_attack wrote:Brenton Tarrants hateful letter.

Spoiler: show

Hello Alan, 04/07/19

Thank you greatly for sending the letter, it must have cost you a lot of rubles to send it all the way from Russia.
In the future if you wish to write or contact me you can just email the prison. It's a lot faster and a hell of a lot cheaper. Though I will still have to reply by regular mail, which takes a long time.

Thanks for the postage stamps as well, they are the only two pieces of color in my otherwise gray cell. I will havet o hide from the guards. I think I can recognize the landmarks on the stamps. One is of the Kremlin in Moscow. Oh wait I just realized the name of the place its at.
The top of the postage stamp, written in cyrillic. I am such an idiot haha. Sometimes I forget how to read cyrilic, its been nearly 4 years since I visited Russia and my memory is failing.

Lets talk about Russia for a bit, as it is one of my favourite countries.
I visited Russia for 1 month in september 2015. I think you can still find some of the photographs I uploaded to facebook, though you will have to google search for an archived or saved version of my facebook page as facebook deleted my profile.
I traveled from st. petersburg through Moscow then around the "golden circle" tourist trail around Moscow. I also have stopped halfway between Moscow and st.petersburg in a small city with a fort with red walls and a golden monument at the center of the fort, but I cannot remember the name of the city.
The Russian people I met were great and once they found I was a tourist and from Australia they became very welcoming. Though the babushkas at the museums still scare me, one of them caught me taking a photo of the artwork and berated me so fiercely in Russian that I can still feel the shame to this very day haha.

My three favourite places were:
1. st.peterburg as it is the most beautiful city in Europe, even more so than Porto in Portugal or Prague in Czechia.
2. The view from a church on the hillside of Moscow of the new business district, amazing view, very "cyberpunk" if you understand what I mean.
3. A monastery that was about 3 kilometers walk from a small town, beautiful design and the walk there was very scenic past dachas(village homes), lakes, ponds and farmland. Very idealistic.
My three favourite Russian songs are "Kotysha" the Cossack song "when were at war", there is a great version of this song that went viral, russian female solider singing in the classroom, i think you the one, the last song is very different, and a bit crazy, especially the music video. It's name is toxin by dirty ramirez, I think its spelled Tokcnb in Russian. I hope you are old enough to watch it haha.
I wish I could visit Russia again someday, but oh well, life isn't about travelling.

My political and social views are mainly based on a mix of ideas from platos "the republic", Richard Dawkins idea of the cultural evolution by memetics, Carl G. Jung views on inherited racial conscious and unconscious as well as belief in nature and the natural hierarchy above all.
My views are most like Sir Oswald Mosley (the historical leader). To understand some of my views on race you should google "haplogroups and human inherited instincts and behaviors". This will give you a broad overview.

I'm not doing much at the moment, just speaking with lawyers and preparing for my trial. I cannot go into any great detail about regrets or feelings as the guards will confiscate my letter if I do(to use as evidence). But I can tell you I have no concern about my self and I only worry for the Europe's future.
I believe there is a great conflict on the horizon and unfortunately there will likely be a great amount of bloodshed. Though that's nothing Russia hasn't survived before, right? Haha - I only hope our people can survive the coming demographic shift.

I hope this letter finds you well and that you are enjoying Russia and all its beauty.
Enjoy life, but do not forget about your duty to your people.
Brenton Tarrant
BT.

Just to confirm the construe of what hateful reaches to.

I decoded it.

Russia will fall in September leading to a war led by Australian Isis and a great crazy, dirty but beautiful muslim Australian/Russian broad.

Aka Rita Panahi

Hareaway wrote:

deadduck wrote:

sonic_attack wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49238749

The more and more that article gets repeated, and keeps getting repeated, and keeps getting repeated, and the longer it gets ignored, and the longer we don't do anything about looking at an escape route with this industry propping up practically the entire country...

My fear is, eventually, before we transition or make an attempt to be less reliant on dairy or stock, it's all going to crash in a heap. It's entirely possible that we will walk into a time where beef and lamb aren't as popular as they are now. It's entirely possible that down the track folk will look at these in an entirely different light and it'll all be worth nothing.
I personally reckon it's a slippery slope. Science agree's. I love steak, dairy and lamb, I eat the stuff all the time. I'm convinced though, down the line, the calls to stop will come and they'll come louder and louder, that whole gig of diet V planet is pretty shaky IMO.

When the population of the planet start looking harder and harder, and we have a nation buried neck deep in dairy and dry stock there could be trouble for everyone.

In all the doom and gloom, there is an opportunity to corner the market on low-carbon protein with the right technological breakthroughs. Not that addressing methane emissions will be a panacea for beef and sheep farming, but it will go a long way to mitigating the carbon emissions associated with dairy, beef, and sheep meat. The right cattle genetics will start to be a value-add right through to the checkout if consumers start buying with a preference for low-carbon products.

Most drystock farms sequesters at least double the carbon from the atmosphere than they produce....so we can expect to be paid for this i presume .
Farming is an easy target but if you start to mention the massive damage being done by Air Travel the room goes a bit quiet , cant miss out on our holidays ...

Pretty sure air travel is more environmentally friendly than seafaring

Gordon Bennett wrote:

Maniototo Man wrote:Hardly the call to arms some commentators have been making it out to be.

It would be nice to see him cut off completely and starved of oxygen but then you'd have the human rights lawyers crawling all over it and he would probably end up getting even more publicity.

I refuse to read it. Glad it's spoilered and a shame it was posted here at all, quite frankly.

I know everyone is getting a tad "sensitive" these day, but why?

It is pretty tame tbf

Letter probably should have been blocked, but she is hardly call to arms

Kahu wrote:Pretty sure air travel is more environmentally friendly than seafaring

Looked but can't see any trustworthy data

Personally would say airlines would be worse as last time I looked a few years ago, the contributed 4% to emissions

NZ as a whole country is 0.17%

I'm no scientist but with the exception of sailing I'd imagine the fact the only resistance aeroplanes encounter is air would make them far more fuel efficient than ships.

Kahu wrote:I'm no scientist but with the exception of sailing I'd imagine the fact the only resistance aeroplanes encounter is air would make them far more fuel efficient than ships.

Yeah probably

I did look, but can see airlines compared to cars, but no real reliable airlines v shipping that doesn't appear slightly dodge

Kahu wrote:I'm no scientist but with the exception of sailing I'd imagine the fact the only resistance aeroplanes encounter is air would make them far more fuel efficient than ships.

So that you can sleep soundly at night you should cancel your air ticket knowing you've done your bit to reduce carbon emissions (safe in the knowledge that plane will still fly with an empty seat or somebody else sitting in the seat you gave up).