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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:28 am 
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Could be something naval as well.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:34 am 
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True Blue wrote:
Could be something naval as well.


I heard a guy on talkback radio claiming a big portion of it is for salary/ recruitment. Reckons they don't have enough personnel to man the meagre equipment they already have. Don't know if accurate but wouldn't surprise me. :?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:36 am 
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booji boy wrote:
True Blue wrote:
Could be something naval as well.


I heard a guy on talkback radio claiming a big portion of it is for salary/ recruitment. Reckons they don't have enough personnel to man the meagre equipment they already have. Don't know if accurate but wouldn't surprise me. :?


Yeah wouldn't surprise me either. Would be hard to have good morale in a military that is constantly on a shoe-string.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:42 am 
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True Blue wrote:
booji boy wrote:
True Blue wrote:
Could be something naval as well.


I heard a guy on talkback radio claiming a big portion of it is for salary/ recruitment. Reckons they don't have enough personnel to man the meagre equipment they already have. Don't know if accurate but wouldn't surprise me. :?


Yeah wouldn't surprise me either. Would be hard to have good morale in a military that is constantly on a shoe-string.


We lived in an "incredibly benign strategic environment" so no need to spend money on defence. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:23 am 
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I would hardly call it a priority...


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:26 am 
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booji boy wrote:
True Blue wrote:
booji boy wrote:
True Blue wrote:
Could be something naval as well.


I heard a guy on talkback radio claiming a big portion of it is for salary/ recruitment. Reckons they don't have enough personnel to man the meagre equipment they already have. Don't know if accurate but wouldn't surprise me. :?


Yeah wouldn't surprise me either. Would be hard to have good morale in a military that is constantly on a shoe-string.


We lived in an "incredibly benign strategic environment" so no need to spend money on defence. :roll:



It is kind of funny

I think from memory the Nats announced 10 bill' over 10 years or so on defence and Labour cancelled it when they got in.

Will try to find the announcment


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:28 am 
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Well that didn't take long

20 billion actually over 13 years in 2017

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politi ... ence-spend

Coalition killed it dead and now Winston is pretending to suddenly give a shit


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:38 am 
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Interesting, Treasury is suggesting it was hacked.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/113077002/budget-leak-referred-to-police-after-treasury-finds-evidence-of-hacking

I guess we can rule out Trevor Mallard shifting the heat.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:43 am 
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Probably Russia. Again.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:08 am 
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Getting a bit weird

Apparently Treasury pre-uploaded them to their site, in what is not what to do on a govt website 101

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12235239


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:27 am 
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Dark wrote:
Getting a bit weird

Apparently Treasury pre-uploaded them to their site, in what is not what to do on a govt website 101

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12235239


Genuine question, how so?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:45 am 
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Wilderbeast wrote:
Dark wrote:
Getting a bit weird

Apparently Treasury pre-uploaded them to their site, in what is not what to do on a govt website 101

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12235239


Genuine question, how so?



If you upload pages onto a public website they are in effect publicly available.

All you need to get to them is obviously the exact url

In this case I would guess the nats wouldn't be able to guess the urls, but if they are there it is fair game if someone finds them

It would be a bit like me owning planet rugby forum and creating a page that just says "Dark is a prick" and not expecting someone to find it.


How it normally works is treasury would have a test and staging web server which is internal and would get them uploaded there, which is the same environment to make sure it looks classy and flash and then push it to the publish/live/production webserver on the day.

Basically if this is what has happened and someone has pushed it to prod' someone should be badly reprimanded and it is their fault, no one elses


It is a bit like the Labour not turning on the security of their servers years ago and then blaming other people for hacking open shit


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:10 pm 
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Dark wrote:
It is a bit like the Labour not turning on the security of their servers years ago and then blaming other people for hacking open shit



I was just thinking, hasn't this kind of thing happened before?

Someone at Treasury should take responsibility for this, even if they were "hacked", it's up to them to have the security necessary in place to prevent that from happening.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:19 pm 
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You plum need to get out more. I seriously mean that.

"Could be something naval as well"

Yeah gazing maybe.


Last edited by RuggaBugga on Tue May 28, 2019 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:20 pm 
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deadduck wrote:
Dark wrote:
It is a bit like the Labour not turning on the security of their servers years ago and then blaming other people for hacking open shit



I was just thinking, hasn't this kind of thing happened before?

Someone at Treasury should take responsibility for this, even if they were "hacked", it's up to them to have the security necessary in place to prevent that from happening.



I think it happened to Labours servers a few years ago when they didn't have proper security set on their servers so anyone could browse their drives and this looks like it is basic publishing to a live public web server pre deadline (like 2 days before).

Don't get me wrong. Stuff like this happens all the time, but they aren't half making a habit of it.

The only difference is the stuff accidently pushed to prod' no one cares about normally


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Dark wrote:
deadduck wrote:
Dark wrote:
It is a bit like the Labour not turning on the security of their servers years ago and then blaming other people for hacking open shit



I was just thinking, hasn't this kind of thing happened before?

Someone at Treasury should take responsibility for this, even if they were "hacked", it's up to them to have the security necessary in place to prevent that from happening.



I think it happened to Labours servers a few years ago when they didn't have proper security set on their servers so anyone could browse their drives and this looks like it is basic publishing to a live public web server pre deadline (like 2 days before).

Don't get me wrong. Stuff like this happens all the time, but they aren't half making a habit of it.

The only difference is the stuff accidently pushed to prod' no one cares about normally


So it's cool for the opposition to shit the details of the budget all over the media because something something pushed to prod?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:30 pm 
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I think it was the standard blog site that effectively had the back door open.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:38 pm 
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RuggaBugga wrote:
Dark wrote:
deadduck wrote:
Dark wrote:
It is a bit like the Labour not turning on the security of their servers years ago and then blaming other people for hacking open shit



I was just thinking, hasn't this kind of thing happened before?

Someone at Treasury should take responsibility for this, even if they were "hacked", it's up to them to have the security necessary in place to prevent that from happening.



I think it happened to Labours servers a few years ago when they didn't have proper security set on their servers so anyone could browse their drives and this looks like it is basic publishing to a live public web server pre deadline (like 2 days before).

Don't get me wrong. Stuff like this happens all the time, but they aren't half making a habit of it.

The only difference is the stuff accidently pushed to prod' no one cares about normally


So it's cool for the opposition to shit the details of the budget all over the media because something something pushed to prod?



Well yes

Having said that, I find it hard to believe that the Nats new all these specific URLs for each item as it would probably not be basic pages, but xml feeds etc which create random stuff, so I would guess that the nats just got feed actual documents and paper, by someone

We will tell when treasury actually publishes then on thursday.


If the url to the pages is just http blah blah bah poverty.aspx they might have guessed

If it is http blah blah blah budget/898624089632068763248763287346 then we know they had the paper


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:45 pm 
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Dark wrote:
RuggaBugga wrote:
Dark wrote:
deadduck wrote:
Dark wrote:
It is a bit like the Labour not turning on the security of their servers years ago and then blaming other people for hacking open shit



I was just thinking, hasn't this kind of thing happened before?

Someone at Treasury should take responsibility for this, even if they were "hacked", it's up to them to have the security necessary in place to prevent that from happening.



I think it happened to Labours servers a few years ago when they didn't have proper security set on their servers so anyone could browse their drives and this looks like it is basic publishing to a live public web server pre deadline (like 2 days before).

Don't get me wrong. Stuff like this happens all the time, but they aren't half making a habit of it.

The only difference is the stuff accidently pushed to prod' no one cares about normally


So it's cool for the opposition to shit the details of the budget all over the media because something something pushed to prod?



Well yes

Having said that, I find it hard to believe that the Nats new all these specific URLs for each item as it would probably not be basic pages, but xml feeds etc which create random stuff, so I would guess that the nats just got feed actual documents and paper, by someone

We will tell when treasury actually publishes then on thursday.


If the url to the pages is just http blah blah bah poverty.aspx they might have guessed

If it is http blah blah blah budget/898624089632068763248763287346 then we know they had the paper


Just because you leave your briefcase at a bus stop does not make the rummaging through and distribution of the contents legal. Whether than notion translates to this matter, we will have to wait and see, but it shows political expediency above honesty. i.e. this has Simon Bridges' smarmy mo all over it to a T.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:47 pm 
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The URLs can be something simple
Last year's for example were of this style
Code:
https://treasury.govt.nz/publications/budgets/economic-development-and-infrastructure-sector-estimates-appropriations-government-new-zealand-year-ending-30-june-2019


David Farrar reckons he's on occasion found unpublished documents simply by copying an old URL and changing the year.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:54 pm 
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Ted. wrote:
Dark wrote:
RuggaBugga wrote:

So it's cool for the opposition to shit the details of the budget all over the media because something something pushed to prod?



Well yes

Having said that, I find it hard to believe that the Nats new all these specific URLs for each item as it would probably not be basic pages, but xml feeds etc which create random stuff, so I would guess that the nats just got feed actual documents and paper, by someone

We will tell when treasury actually publishes then on thursday.


If the url to the pages is just http blah blah bah poverty.aspx they might have guessed

If it is http blah blah blah budget/898624089632068763248763287346 then we know they had the paper


Just because you leave your briefcase at a bus stop does not make the rummaging through and distribution of the contents legal. Whether than notion translates to this matter, we will have to wait and see, but it shows political expediency above honesty. i.e. this has Simon Bridges' smarmy mo all over it to a T.


You can take that view

Or you can take the view any member of the public could access is from the time it was uploaded.

As I have said. Personally think it is probably a cop out and no one could guess the urls and it was just leaked on paper to the nats by some rogue coalition MP


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:56 pm 
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Dark wrote:
RuggaBugga wrote:
Dark wrote:
deadduck wrote:
Dark wrote:
It is a bit like the Labour not turning on the security of their servers years ago and then blaming other people for hacking open shit



I was just thinking, hasn't this kind of thing happened before?

Someone at Treasury should take responsibility for this, even if they were "hacked", it's up to them to have the security necessary in place to prevent that from happening.



I think it happened to Labours servers a few years ago when they didn't have proper security set on their servers so anyone could browse their drives and this looks like it is basic publishing to a live public web server pre deadline (like 2 days before).

Don't get me wrong. Stuff like this happens all the time, but they aren't half making a habit of it.

The only difference is the stuff accidently pushed to prod' no one cares about normally


So it's cool for the opposition to shit the details of the budget all over the media because something something pushed to prod?



Well yes
...


Why?

Do you really believe that if the opposition discover the details of the budget early (by whatever means) then they should start leaking it to the media?

Furthermore do you think that non uber-partisan hacks, such as yourself, would see this as a positive development in regard to the state of our democracy?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:58 pm 
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deadduck wrote:
The URLs can be something simple
Last year's for example were of this style
Code:
https://treasury.govt.nz/publications/budgets/economic-development-and-infrastructure-sector-estimates-appropriations-government-new-zealand-year-ending-30-june-2019


David Farrar reckons he's on occasion found unpublished documents simply by copying an old URL and changing the year.


And?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:59 pm 
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deadduck wrote:
The URLs can be something simple
Last year's for example were of this style
Code:
https://treasury.govt.nz/publications/budgets/economic-development-and-infrastructure-sector-estimates-appropriations-government-new-zealand-year-ending-30-june-2019


David Farrar reckons he's on occasion found unpublished documents simply by copying an old URL and changing the year.

That is actually quite stupid


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:03 pm 
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RuggaBugga wrote:
Dark wrote:
RuggaBugga wrote:
Why?

Do you really believe that if the opposition discover the details of the budget early (by whatever means) then they should start leaking it to the media?

Furthermore do you think that non uber-partisan hacks, such as yourself, would see this as a positive development in regard to the state of our democracy?


Why do you believe they shouldn't?

If they disagree with the govts direction?

Do you not hang ten for a second and actually ask what sort of "Stable" govt leaks their biggest thing of the year and ask what maybe wrong?

Or does this come as a complete "Who cares" to you?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:44 pm 
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Dark wrote:
RuggaBugga wrote:
Dark wrote:
RuggaBugga wrote:
Why?

Do you really believe that if the opposition discover the details of the budget early (by whatever means) then they should start leaking it to the media?

Furthermore do you think that non uber-partisan hacks, such as yourself, would see this as a positive development in regard to the state of our democracy?


Why do you believe they shouldn't?

If they disagree with the govts direction?


Do you not hang ten for a second and actually ask what sort of "Stable" govt leaks their biggest thing of the year and ask what maybe wrong?

Or does this come as a complete "Who cares" to you?


Because they're the opposition not a f**king tabloid newspaper?

Look mate, I'm pretty much done with you because it's clear you're a partisan idiot. I don't engage in this thread all that often but read it avidly and I can categorically state that it has gone downhill since you stuck your head back above the parapet.

I mean who could argue with this level of discourse displayed here:

Dark wrote:
RuggaBugga wrote:
Dark wrote:
deadduck wrote:
Dark wrote:
It is a bit like the Labour not turning on the security of their servers years ago and then blaming other people for hacking open shit



I was just thinking, hasn't this kind of thing happened before?

Someone at Treasury should take responsibility for this, even if they were "hacked", it's up to them to have the security necessary in place to prevent that from happening.



I think it happened to Labours servers a few years ago when they didn't have proper security set on their servers so anyone could browse their drives and this looks like it is basic publishing to a live public web server pre deadline (like 2 days before).

Don't get me wrong. Stuff like this happens all the time, but they aren't half making a habit of it.

The only difference is the stuff accidently pushed to prod' no one cares about normally


So it's cool for the opposition to shit the details of the budget all over the media because something something pushed to prod?



Well yes

Having said that, I find it hard to believe that the Nats new all these specific URLs for each item as it would probably not be basic pages, but xml feeds etc which create random stuff, so I would guess that the nats just got feed actual documents and paper, by someone

We will tell when treasury actually publishes then on thursday.


If the url to the pages is just http blah blah bah poverty.aspx they might have guessed

If it is http blah blah blah budget/898624089632068763248763287346 then we know they had the paper


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:39 pm 
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RuggaBugga wrote:
You plum need to get out more. I seriously mean that.


Says the man with 11,200 posts. :lol:

Dark 2,140
Wilderbeast 3,469
Brat 3,658
Deadduck 5,156
JB1981 5,339
Auckman 6,879
Booji 6,445
True Blue 10,888

Or are you having a crack at these chaps?

Enzedder 16,821
Guy Smiley 31,023 :lol:

Agreed. They definitely need to get out more. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:02 pm 
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If they thought the government was or had been misleading the public they might feel that it was their duty to inform the public once they had come into procession of info that shows that.

At least that's how stuff like this should happen in politics where the opposition is one of the checks and balances to help keep governments open and honest. But unfortunately we just seem to get points scoring attempts more often than not.

Although that might just be the price of it occasionally working as intended.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:51 pm 
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Quote:
Or are you having a crack at these chaps?

Enzedder 16,821
Guy Smiley 31,023 :lol:

Agreed. They definitely need to get out more.


oi - we've BEEN out more but are now taking it a lot easier and winding up the young pricks like TMA ...., sorry, Dork.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:39 pm 
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I just watched Paula Bennett and Shane Jones on Breakfast.... jammed together at one desk :lol:

It's the first time I've watched a head to head of NZ pollies like that. First time I've watched Paula Bennett's hair in action.

She's actually claiming that National's reputation is being damaged through these 'accusations' of hacking.

She's a genuine slapper :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:43 pm 
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Scary to think she's one of their better ones.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:55 pm 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Scary to think she's one of their better ones.


Yeah. That lack of quality isn't limited to one side of politics here, either. Jesus, what a shitshow.

I'm gonna call it. This 'leak' is dirty politics.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:59 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
I just watched Paula Bennett and Shane Jones on Breakfast.... jammed together at one desk :lol:

It's the first time I've watched a head to head of NZ pollies like that. First time I've watched Paula Bennett's hair in action.

She's actually claiming that National's reputation is being damaged through these 'accusations' of hacking.

She's a genuine slapper :lol:


But Mallard's a standup bloke, right Guy. :thumbup: ;)


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:59 pm 
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booji boy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
I just watched Paula Bennett and Shane Jones on Breakfast.... jammed together at one desk :lol:

It's the first time I've watched a head to head of NZ pollies like that. First time I've watched Paula Bennett's hair in action.

She's actually claiming that National's reputation is being damaged through these 'accusations' of hacking.

She's a genuine slapper :lol:


But Mallard's a standup bloke, right Guy. :thumbup: ;)


That's not what I said, is it?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:04 pm 
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Enzedder wrote:
Quote:
Or are you having a crack at these chaps?

Enzedder 16,821
Guy Smiley 31,023 :lol:

Agreed. They definitely need to get out more.


oi - we've BEEN out more but are now taking it a lot easier and winding up the young pricks like TMA ...., sorry, Dork.


You're alright mate. You have both eyes open and will call BS as you see it from any party. Unlike your Canterbury buddy who is as one eyed in his political support of Labour as he is in support of his rugby team.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:06 pm 
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guy smiley wrote:
booji boy wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
I just watched Paula Bennett and Shane Jones on Breakfast.... jammed together at one desk :lol:

It's the first time I've watched a head to head of NZ pollies like that. First time I've watched Paula Bennett's hair in action.

She's actually claiming that National's reputation is being damaged through these 'accusations' of hacking.

She's a genuine slapper :lol:


But Mallard's a standup bloke, right Guy. :thumbup: ;)


That's not what I said, is it?


You seem to be particularly harsh on MPs from the other side of the house. If she was Labour would you really be making petty comments about Bennett's hair?


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:16 pm 
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booji boy wrote:

You seem to be particularly harsh on MPs from the other side of the house.



Do I?

Are you sure it's not more likely that you're particularly sensitive to criticsm of your chosen ones? Don't you think you're scrabbling for any scrap you can grab to distract from that?

As for TMAB's claim that Treasury mistakenly published material...

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/39 ... ent-attack

Quote:
Budget information taken from Treasury's website came under attack 2000 times over 48 hours, the Treasury Secretary says.

Treasury is rushing to beef up security for all Budget documents as the police try to find out who hacked into the department's IT system.

Last night Treasury said in a statement it had gathered enough evidence that its systems had been "deliberately and systematically hacked". It had referred the matter to police, on the advice of the National Cyber Security Centre, and taken steps to increase the security of all Budget-related information.

"We identified multiple and persistent attempts to gain unauthorised access to our systems, and specifically budget related information," Treasury Secretary Gabriel Makhlouf told Morning Report.

Someone tried 2000 times over 48 hours to access Budget related information, he said.

It started around midnight on Sunday and ended when Treasury discovered it and shut everything down yesterday.

"Like the rest of the country we discovered on the news that some information - obviously not the whole Budget - but some information was being published."

There were safeguards in place but someone had found a weakness in the system.

"Somebody managed to penetrate and get some, not the whole Budget, some information."

The information released by National would appear to be the data taken from Treasury, but he was not accusing National of taking it nor saying that the two were connected.

"I have no evidence that tells me that the two are related," he said.

He was letting police work out what happened.

"I'm not going to speak to the National Party about information. It's up to the police to decide what they want to do."

He said no documents were put on Treasury's website accidentally. "This was a deliberate and systematic attempt to gain access to information that wasn't ready for public release."


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:33 pm 
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Location: NZ
This is probably going to sound odd, but is true

A govt site having being hit on it 2000 times in 48 hours is not odd.

It is normal

And probably unrelated


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:42 pm 
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Dark wrote:
This is probably going to sound odd, but is true

A govt site having being hit on it 2000 times in 48 hours is not odd.

It is normal

And probably unrelated


You think Gabs is intentionally misleading the public? There’s a clear implication this is above average.


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 Post subject: Re: NZ Politics Thread
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:44 pm 
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Dark wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Dark wrote:
RuggaBugga wrote:

So it's cool for the opposition to shit the details of the budget all over the media because something something pushed to prod?



Well yes

Having said that, I find it hard to believe that the Nats new all these specific URLs for each item as it would probably not be basic pages, but xml feeds etc which create random stuff, so I would guess that the nats just got feed actual documents and paper, by someone

We will tell when treasury actually publishes then on thursday.


If the url to the pages is just http blah blah bah poverty.aspx they might have guessed

If it is http blah blah blah budget/898624089632068763248763287346 then we know they had the paper


Just because you leave your briefcase at a bus stop does not make the rummaging through and distribution of the contents legal. Whether than notion translates to this matter, we will have to wait and see, but it shows political expediency above honesty. i.e. this has Simon Bridges' smarmy mo all over it to a T.


You can take that view

Or you can take the view any member of the public could access is from the time it was uploaded.

As I have said. Personally think it is probably a cop out and no one could guess the urls and it was just leaked on paper to the nats by some rogue coalition MP


The law takes that view. Dishonest people will not take that view, or will choose to ignore it.

However the information/loot comes to be in someone's possession makes a difference to whether it is possessed legally or not. If something is clearly not yours to have but comes your way in error, it is still not yours to possess.

It seems, Dark, that your moral and ethical compass is awry.


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