NZ Politics Thread

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UncleFB
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by UncleFB »

Dark wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Tehui wrote:Interesting to read the reaction from some of the boardies about the intention to charge fees for the 14-day period re-entering NZ. I would have thought those on the Right would be supportive of it. I'm still trying to figure out whether your disagreement is due to the actual policy, or due to the team making the political decisions.
Yeah, it’s odd that righties are complaining about the lefties instituting a user pays system.

It isn't a user pays system
Jesus, I didn't think I'd set off a fucking semantic debate.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

UncleFB wrote:
Dark wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Tehui wrote:Interesting to read the reaction from some of the boardies about the intention to charge fees for the 14-day period re-entering NZ. I would have thought those on the Right would be supportive of it. I'm still trying to figure out whether your disagreement is due to the actual policy, or due to the team making the political decisions.
Yeah, it’s odd that righties are complaining about the lefties instituting a user pays system.

It isn't a user pays system
Jesus, I didn't think I'd set off a fucking semantic debate.
It isn't a fucking semantic debate.
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Monkey Magic
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Monkey Magic »

Enzedder wrote:I will never vote National again - and ACT is not on my landscape.

Winnie is spent and the Greens are nutter.

No-one left so labour wins my vote and I think in Ardern/Robertson they have the right philosophy for what is needed.
If you thought TOP would make 5% (or if threshold was lower), would they be more to your liking?

They strike me as a party that seem to have a dogma about using proven policy vs a left right shtick.
Jay Cee Gee
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

Dark wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Dark wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Tehui wrote:Interesting to read the reaction from some of the boardies about the intention to charge fees for the 14-day period re-entering NZ. I would have thought those on the Right would be supportive of it. I'm still trying to figure out whether your disagreement is due to the actual policy, or due to the team making the political decisions.
Yeah, it’s odd that righties are complaining about the lefties instituting a user pays system.

It isn't a user pays system
Jesus, I didn't think I'd set off a fucking semantic debate.
It isn't a fucking semantic debate.
How would you describe it then? I'd say that phrase sums it up pretty well.
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Enzedder
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Wilderbeast wrote:Tbf, policy isn’t everything. A lot of people voting for Ardern would be doing so for her leadership In times of crisis (Chch, White Island, covid-19).
Very much so - but in my case, Key. x( x( x(
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Enzedder
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Go Waitaki
"I'm not going to give any speeches, I don't want to tell people what to do. I want them to tell me what to do," Shand told the Herald.
Image
If you're tired of election candidates that over-promise and under-deliver, then you may very well wish you lived in the Waitaki electorate so you could vote for Daniel Shand.

The candidate, whose first billboard has gone up in Wānaka this weekend, says he doesn't know anything about politics but is keen to give it a go.

In a letter to the Waitaki electorate, which has also been posted on the "Vote Daniel Shand" Facebook page, the candidate says he doesn't currently have any positions.

"I'll make something up later. Politicians don't normally do what they say anyway," he wrote.

"Ring me up and tell me what you want and I'll probably just do that," the aspiring MP added.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Dark wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Dark wrote:

It isn't a user pays system
Jesus, I didn't think I'd set off a fucking semantic debate.
It isn't a fucking semantic debate.
How would you describe it then? I'd say that phrase sums it up pretty well.
Not user pays if they start charging kiwis who come back, who left prior to Covid
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

If anything it is user gets benefit for free.
Wilderbeast
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wilderbeast »

If Daniel Shand doesn’t get a huge number of votes I’ll be disappointed.
Santa
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

If people are voting for Ardern just because and pay no heed to policy then NZ is well and truly f**ked. Policy, in other words what the government actually does, is really rather important. Policy can make a things better or worse. Is a good leader implementing a load of bad policies a good leader?

Also re 'user pays', that is an actual thing, and if you use the term to describe a thing that is not user pays then it is perfectly reasonable to point the error out. Its not user pays. Easy.

Christ, what is going on with New Zealanders?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

One last word on the fee amount. I'm pretty sure its the Public Finance Act that prevents regulatory fees from being profit making (e.g. cost recovery only) because taxes may only be levied under parliamentary authority. In this instance the fee may actually be a tax since I believe it will be enacted under legislation. So the Act prevents entities with devolved powers to set fee amounts to set them above cost recovery.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

But the fees being charged are well below the actual costs of each quarantinee.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

Enzedder wrote:But the fees being charged are well below the actual costs of each quarantinee.
Yes. That has already been covered.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Enzedder wrote:But the fees being charged are well below the actual costs of each quarantinee.
And the reason for this is?..............Because the current govt is forcing them to be housed in some of the most expensive hotels in the country?

With free food and a bottle of house wine a day.
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Enzedder
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Dark wrote:
Enzedder wrote:But the fees being charged are well below the actual costs of each quarantinee.
And the reason for this is?..............Because the current govt is forcing them to be housed in some of the most expensive hotels in the country?

With free food and a bottle of house wine a day.

What's your plan (in a place where they can be kept together, fed and have access to top medical care)?
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Kahu
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Kahu »

Dark wrote:
Enzedder wrote:But the fees being charged are well below the actual costs of each quarantinee.
And the reason for this is?..............Because the current govt is forcing them to be housed in some of the most expensive hotels in the country?

With free food and a bottle of house wine a day.
You have to pay for the wine. At least you do at the Crowne
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Enzedder wrote:
Dark wrote:
Enzedder wrote:But the fees being charged are well below the actual costs of each quarantinee.
And the reason for this is?..............Because the current govt is forcing them to be housed in some of the most expensive hotels in the country?

With free food and a bottle of house wine a day.

What's your plan (in a place where they can be kept together, fed and have access to top medical care)?
A military base. With a load of self contained campervans, as the other lot did originally

Perfect security, separate toilets, cooking staff to deliver. Open excersize areas
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Enzedder
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Dark wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
Dark wrote:
Enzedder wrote:But the fees being charged are well below the actual costs of each quarantinee.
And the reason for this is?..............Because the current govt is forcing them to be housed in some of the most expensive hotels in the country?

With free food and a bottle of house wine a day.

What's your plan (in a place where they can be kept together, fed and have access to top medical care)?
A military base. With a load of self contained campervans, as the other lot did originally

Perfect security, separate toilets, cooking staff to deliver. Open excersize areas
This is from early last month
On Friday, the Ministry of Health revealed there are 5202 people currently in quarantine around the country and thousands more are expected to begin their mandatory 14 days over the next week.
While I think you are onto something, we don't have anything near those numbers - and remember it's the middle of winter so leave out Waiouru please

I think they have limited the numbers but not sure if its 150 per day or a little higher
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guy smiley
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Zero tourism so utilising hotels, already set up to manage inmate/guests in efficient housing seems a no brainer from a simple economic management perspective...

as does the provision of a user pays aspect to the isolation policy.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

At the end of the day if there really is no alternative this govt can come up with, then they might as well just pay it all, as the tiny amount the govts proposed rules are going to bring in for who qualifies as having to pay will probably cost more to administer than its worth worrying about.

But politics and looks will prevail probably
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

$10m income against $497m expenditure.. Is. Not. User. Pays. It is user doesn't pay.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Santa wrote:$10m income against $497m expenditure.. Is. Not. User. Pays. It is user doesn't pay.
Exactly

User/benefiter- Community healthiness of kiwis

Payer of it in some few cases the govt has dreamed up to satisfy the pitchfork bunch - A tiny percentage of kiwi travelers.

Other benefiter - all the lawyers when it turns out it breaks human rights
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Tehui
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Tehui »

UncleFB wrote:
Dark wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Tehui wrote:Interesting to read the reaction from some of the boardies about the intention to charge fees for the 14-day period re-entering NZ. I would have thought those on the Right would be supportive of it. I'm still trying to figure out whether your disagreement is due to the actual policy, or due to the team making the political decisions.
Yeah, it’s odd that righties are complaining about the lefties instituting a user pays system.

It isn't a user pays system
Jesus, I didn't think I'd set off a fucking semantic debate.
No, you've started a semi-semantic debate.
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terangi48
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by terangi48 »

Sounds like you guys want all returnees put into tramping huts on their return...........

What are you trying to prove by being so miserable......?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by JPNZ »

Not surprisingly the "trans-tasman bubble" has been abandoned for what could be well into 2021
Speaking to RNZ, Ardern said outbreak was a “major step back for trans-Tasman travel.” “Obviously this is going to be some time away now,” Ardern said.

She expanded on The AM Show, saying Australia would need to be free of unknown locally acquired cases – community transmission – for at least 28 days.

“Anywhere where we have Covid-free travel they have to be free of community transmision for a period of time - that will be some time for Australia,” Ardern said.

“It will be on the backburner for several months.”

She said based on her understanding Victoria could be some months away from that, but the harsher lockdown could speed that up. The Government has earlier mused about the possibility of opening up to Australia state-by-state, as many states are in a much better position than Victoria. This would have to be approved by the Australian national cabinet however, and New Zealand would also need to be satisfied that restrictions on interstate travel were very strict. It appears that this strategy has been abandoned for the time being.
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EverReady
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by EverReady »

How long does she think she can keep this up? Not trolling it just doesn't seem feasible to keep the country walled off this way
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

EverReady wrote:How long does she think she can keep this up? Not trolling it just doesn't seem feasible to keep the country walled off this way
Till the election.

She is riding the Covid wave and I doubt she wants any thing to happen to risk her falling off the surfboard beforehand.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

EverReady wrote:How long does she think she can keep this up? Not trolling it just doesn't seem feasible to keep the country walled off this way
Feasibility is a challenging term right now. From the outside it seems that remaining closed off is not only doable economically (the economy is taking a massive hit of course, but not nosediving into disaster) but popular with casual polls revealing strong support and official polls showing incredible levels of support for the Labour Party who could govern alone on current polling, if not a first under MMP then certainly rare.

‘She’ can certainly stay the course until after the election in September. After that it’s a fair bet to suggest they will continue in govt and the policy of health before all else will continue.

Feasibility should include, after all, the health of the electorate. Business minds seem to struggle with that concept at times.

From my perspective, the Aus situation is a shitshow. I’m in South Australia... no community transmission for two months. Limited interstate travel has been underway for some time but the resurgence in Vic and NSW suggests none of us are out of the woods yet and the NZ govt’s position is understandable and reasonable. The Aus govt have decided to do nothing and delegate management of the country to a bunch of miners. If I was Ardern I’d stay right away as well.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by JPNZ »

EverReady wrote:How long does she think she can keep this up? Not trolling it just doesn't seem feasible to keep the country walled off this way
To support what Guy said, the actual feeling out in public in NZ is that yes the economy is coping with no International travel (although the longer it goes on the harder it will be for business) but everyone seems to be happy to be closed off and keep covid out.

I haven't had a single person mention to me that we should open the borders and things like Australia's current situation just reinforce peoples resolve. I would be surprised if we have any open travel internationally before Christmas time.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Feasibility should include, after all, the health of the electorate. Business minds seem to struggle with that concept at times.
Reading between the lines you can see some national fans almost wanting a further outbreak just to "knock her off her perch".

I am waiting for the 'myxomatosis' release
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

JPNZ wrote:
EverReady wrote:How long does she think she can keep this up? Not trolling it just doesn't seem feasible to keep the country walled off this way
To support what Guy said, the actual feeling out in public in NZ is that yes the economy is coping with no International travel (although the longer it goes on the harder it will be for business) but everyone seems to be happy to be closed off and keep covid out.

I haven't had a single person mention to me that we should open the borders and things like Australia's current situation just reinforce peoples resolve. I would be surprised if we have any open travel internationally before Christmas time.
While I agree, I have a feeling this could change when the wage and unfair unemployment covid finances cut off fairly shortly (unless the extend them)
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

I am sure there will be no negative health impact from the economic consequence of having a closed border.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Santa wrote:I am sure there will be no negative health impact from the economic consequence of having a closed border.

And I am sure that your eyebrows were raised when you wrote that. The skill is in finding a viable balance without doing a Victoria
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by guy smiley »

Santa wrote:I am sure there will be no negative health impact from the economic consequence of having a closed border.
How sure are you that opening the border now would save the economy?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by JPNZ »

Dark wrote:
While I agree, I have a feeling this could change when the wage and unfair unemployment covid finances cut off fairly shortly (unless the extend them)
That has already been ruled out, the government doesn't have enough money to keep propping up the economy.
The Covid-19 wage subsidy scheme that has supported nearly 2 million jobs will end in September, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said.

The $11.9 billion scheme has been in place since March, and has helped insulate 1.7 million workers and their employers from some of the economic affects of the coronavirus pandemic.

On Sunday, Adern confirmed that the scheme, already extended to September, will not continue.

“We've clearly signal that a wage subsidy is not something that can continue on in the never-never,” she said.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by shanky »

guy smiley wrote:
EverReady wrote:How long does she think she can keep this up? Not trolling it just doesn't seem feasible to keep the country walled off this way
Feasibility is a challenging term right now. From the outside it seems that remaining closed off is not only doable economically (the economy is taking a massive hit of course, but not nosediving into disaster) but popular with casual polls revealing strong support and official polls showing incredible levels of support for the Labour Party who could govern alone on current polling, if not a first under MMP then certainly rare.

‘She’ can certainly stay the course until after the election in September. After that it’s a fair bet to suggest they will continue in govt and the policy of health before all else will continue.

Feasibility should include, after all, the health of the electorate. Business minds seem to struggle with that concept at times.

From my perspective, the Aus situation is a shitshow. I’m in South Australia... no community transmission for two months. Limited interstate travel has been underway for some time but the resurgence in Vic and NSW suggests none of us are out of the woods yet and the NZ govt’s position is understandable and reasonable. The Aus govt have decided to do nothing and delegate management of the country to a bunch of miners. If I was Ardern I’d stay right away as well.
Oh hi Muttonbird

There's what, a million Kiwis stuck in this-here shitshow? Sooner or later, they're going to want to see their families.
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Dark
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

JPNZ wrote:
Dark wrote:
While I agree, I have a feeling this could change when the wage and unfair unemployment covid finances cut off fairly shortly (unless the extend them)
That has already been ruled out, the government doesn't have enough money to keep propping up the economy.
The Covid-19 wage subsidy scheme that has supported nearly 2 million jobs will end in September, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said.

The $11.9 billion scheme has been in place since March, and has helped insulate 1.7 million workers and their employers from some of the economic affects of the coronavirus pandemic.

On Sunday, Adern confirmed that the scheme, already extended to September, will not continue.

“We've clearly signal that a wage subsidy is not something that can continue on in the never-never,” she said.
Cheers

:thumbup:

This is when things are going to get a bit more real then tbf
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Flockwitt »

JPNZ wrote:
EverReady wrote:How long does she think she can keep this up? Not trolling it just doesn't seem feasible to keep the country walled off this way
To support what Guy said, the actual feeling out in public in NZ is that yes the economy is coping with no International travel (although the longer it goes on the harder it will be for business) but everyone seems to be happy to be closed off and keep covid out.

I haven't had a single person mention to me that we should open the borders and things like Australia's current situation just reinforce peoples resolve. I would be surprised if we have any open travel internationally before Christmas time.
Fair enough too. With Covid vaccines in the news everyday there looks to be a genuine chance that something will come available in a manageable time frame and the longer we can hold out the better the chance. That and the fact everybody is aware how damaging a second lock down would be. Reduced business is far better than no business and ruined stock.
Last edited by Flockwitt on Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Santa
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that business travel without a 2 week quarantine will be necessary for NZ's economic revival.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Muttonbirds »

shanky wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
EverReady wrote:How long does she think she can keep this up? Not trolling it just doesn't seem feasible to keep the country walled off this way
Feasibility is a challenging term right now. From the outside it seems that remaining closed off is not only doable economically (the economy is taking a massive hit of course, but not nosediving into disaster) but popular with casual polls revealing strong support and official polls showing incredible levels of support for the Labour Party who could govern alone on current polling, if not a first under MMP then certainly rare.

‘She’ can certainly stay the course until after the election in September. After that it’s a fair bet to suggest they will continue in govt and the policy of health before all else will continue.

Feasibility should include, after all, the health of the electorate. Business minds seem to struggle with that concept at times.

From my perspective, the Aus situation is a shitshow. I’m in South Australia... no community transmission for two months. Limited interstate travel has been underway for some time but the resurgence in Vic and NSW suggests none of us are out of the woods yet and the NZ govt’s position is understandable and reasonable. The Aus govt have decided to do nothing and delegate management of the country to a bunch of miners. If I was Ardern I’d stay right away as well.
Oh hi Muttonbird

There's what, a million Kiwis stuck in this-here shitshow? Sooner or later, they're going to want to see their families.
They should have thought of that before moving to Australia. Poor life choices.
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