NZ Politics Thread

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Enzedder
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Fiscally neutral would mean that the margins would probably increase by $1000 is we're lucky and $500m spread over the rest of us is bugger all.

Yep - the 39% is purely political and a drop in the bucket, I agree. I wonder why it was dropped in the first place? :roll:
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:43 am Fiscally neutral would mean that the margins would probably increase by $1000 is we're lucky and $500m spread over the rest of us is bugger all.

Yep - the 39% is purely political and a drop in the bucket, I agree. I wonder why it was dropped in the first place? :roll:
You know the answer.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:39 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:14 am Whilst I'm very happy with that one change that won't affect the majority af taxpayers and only slightly impact the majority of taxpayers who are affected (if that makes sense) it does call into question the value of the tax working group. I know CGT was ruled out by Jacinda but I thought there might be a host of other taxes they would look to introduce.

But no. Turns out the TWG was just another waste of taxpayer money that lead to no significant change.
It turns out that Covid erases all the bets though
What do you mean by that? That covid has erased other options so they are sticking with just a relatively minor change? Or that covid will give them the option to make more radical changes later?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

You know the answer :P

(But I meant that now is not the time to muck around too much with taxes as we have no certainty of how long the current situation will last)
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:54 am You know the answer :P

(But I meant that now is not the time to muck around too much with taxes as we have no certainty of how long the current situation will last)
Right.

What I meant above is that we changed from a Labour to a National Govt so the top rate dropped from 33 to 39. But I'm sure you knew that. Fair play to Jacinda. She promised no tax increases in her first term and was true to her word.

It's also great to have Grant Robertson with such a steady hand on the tiller. ;)
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Brabus »

booji boy wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:02 am
Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:54 am You know the answer :P

(But I meant that now is not the time to muck around too much with taxes as we have no certainty of how long the current situation will last)
Right.

What I meant above is that we changed from a Labour to a National Govt so the top rate dropped from 33 to 39. But I'm sure you knew that. Fair play to Jacinda. She promised no tax increases in her first term and was true to her word.

It's also great have Grant Robertson with such a steady hand on the tiller. ;)
Not exactly, excise is still a tax no matter what semantic games are played.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:24 am
deadduck wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:19 am
Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:09 am Labour Party announces 39% income tax for over $180,000
It's a neat trick. Now people who have peen paying the top two bands despite a mediocre income will feel a bit better about being ripped off after their income is taxed based on what a salary was worth 10 years ago.
It is neat eh? National are going to do exactly the same without this extra band.

Do you honestly feel that now is the time to reduce taxes?
The tax brackets should imho move automatically in line with inflation. Otherwise we will eventually end up with even those on the lowest incomes paying high tax rates. Which means their spending power is going down in real terms.

Edit: fat fingers.
Last edited by Fat Old Git on Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by deadduck »

The 39c band was dropped by the Nats to align the personal income tax rates with the trustee tax rate.
People who would have paid the 39c rate would be able to avoid it by diverting their income through trusts

I wonder how many people were straight on the phone with their accountants after this announcement
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:58 am
Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:24 am
deadduck wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:19 am
Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:09 am Labour Party announces 39% income tax for over $180,000
It's a neat trick. Now people who have peen paying the top two bands despite a mediocre income will feel a bit better about being ripped off after their income is taxed based on what a salary was worth 10 years ago.
It is neat eh? National are going to do exactly the same without this extra band.

Do you honestly feel that now is the time to reduce taxes?
The tax brackets should imho move automatically in line with inflation. Otherwise we will eventually end up with even those on the lowest incomes paying high tax rates. Which means there spending power is going down in real terms.
Agree

It is almost as if a party when in with that with the last election and Labour called it tax cuts to the rich
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:58 am
Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:24 am
Do you honestly feel that now is the time to reduce taxes?
The tax brackets should imho move automatically in line with inflation. Otherwise we will eventually end up with even those on the lowest incomes paying high tax rates. Which means their spending power is going down in real terms.

Edit: fat fingers.
Agree that is what should have happened but we all fell asleep and let it creep. I still feel that now isn't the time though (and it appears the main parties agree with me)
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:19 am
Fat Old Git wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:58 am
Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:24 am
Do you honestly feel that now is the time to reduce taxes?
The tax brackets should imho move automatically in line with inflation. Otherwise we will eventually end up with even those on the lowest incomes paying high tax rates. Which means their spending power is going down in real terms.

Edit: fat fingers.
Agree that is what should have happened but we all fell asleep and let it creep. I still feel that now isn't the time though (and it appears the main parties agree with me)
We're not doing pay rises this year either, and I can understand why. The cost of living never seems to take pause though, and we never seem to get back what was lost when good conditions return.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Noticed Winston has said ignore anything labour said today if he gets back in
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by jambanja »

Dark wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:06 am Noticed Winston has said ignore anything labour said today if he gets back in
If Labour can’t rule on their own it means they really have shit the bed so regardless of whether he does, by something only Winnie can pull off, get in, it doesn’t matter as they probably won’t need him
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

jambanja wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:31 am
Dark wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:06 am Noticed Winston has said ignore anything labour said today if he gets back in
If Labour can’t rule on their own it means they really have shit the bed so regardless of whether he does, by something only Winnie can pull off, get in, it doesn’t matter as they probably won’t need him

No chance. Daddy Winston runs the place.

He says jump Ardern asks in which direction sir?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Eugenius »

deadduck wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:00 am The 39c band was dropped by the Nats to align the personal income tax rates with the trustee tax rate.
People who would have paid the 39c rate would be able to avoid it by diverting their income through trusts

I wonder how many people were straight on the phone with their accountants after this announcement

We’ve worked out that it’s going to lose us bugger all - certainly not enough to go hide it in trust unless you are seriously mental .
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Mr Mike »

Eugenius wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:08 am
deadduck wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:00 am The 39c band was dropped by the Nats to align the personal income tax rates with the trustee tax rate.
People who would have paid the 39c rate would be able to avoid it by diverting their income through trusts

I wonder how many people were straight on the phone with their accountants after this announcement

We’ve worked out that it’s going to lose us bugger all - certainly not enough to go hide it in trust unless you are seriously mental .
That should probably be the biggest objection of all to the policy, it’s craven tokenism. It will only properly impact those lower wage earners closer to the $180k threshold who have more conventional sources of income and fewer cost effective options. As usual, people earning more significant incomes will have more options to manage their exposure and greater incentives to do so. As a policy it does nothing meaningful to address growing income or wealth inequalities and is a declaration of surrender on those issues.

I like it.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Mr Mike wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:38 am
Eugenius wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:08 am
deadduck wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:00 am The 39c band was dropped by the Nats to align the personal income tax rates with the trustee tax rate.
People who would have paid the 39c rate would be able to avoid it by diverting their income through trusts

I wonder how many people were straight on the phone with their accountants after this announcement

We’ve worked out that it’s going to lose us bugger all - certainly not enough to go hide it in trust unless you are seriously mental .
That should probably be the biggest objection of all to the policy, it’s craven tokenism. It will only properly impact those lower wage earners closer to the $180k threshold who have more conventional sources of income and fewer cost effective options. As usual, people earning more significant incomes will have more options to manage their exposure and greater incentives to do so. As a policy it does nothing meaningful to address growing income or wealth inequalities and is a declaration of surrender on those issues.

I like it.
:lol: Me too!

I can sleep soundly at night knowing another 3 years of Jacinda and Grant doesn't mean a myriad of new taxes. After all the speculation no CGT, no stamp duty, no wealth tax etc.

The Greens must be livid, after all 'tax is love'. :lol:

Still makes me wonder what Cullen and his cronies on the Tax Working Group did to earn their $1,000 a day? 🤔
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

You delete your post Enz? A pity. I had a masterful response prepared. :)
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Enzedder »

booji boy wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:22 pm You delete your post Enz? A pity. I had a masterful response prepared. :)

Yeah, I'm going to give it up. Not worth it when two different parties can do the same thing but one is childish and one is masterful. I can get better insight from Mike Hosking I think.

Edit: And you guys could listen in to quite a few commentators to hear my viewpoints.
Last edited by Enzedder on Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Eugenius »

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2020/08/munted/

‘We’re going to fix New Zealand like we fixed Christchurch’.

The party of competence strikes again !
Last edited by Eugenius on Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:36 pm
booji boy wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:22 pm You delete your post Enz? A pity. I had a masterful response prepared. :)

Yeah, I'm going to give it up. Not worth it when two different parties can do the same thing but one is childish and one is masterful. I can get better insight from Mike Hosking I think.
It's a strange one. If Labour had applied the 39c rate to earnings at say $90k it would bring in significantly more cash to the Govt coffers and TBH is what I was expecting but would bring a lot more criticism from the Nats and possibly affect swinging voters. Instead they bring it in at $180k, which brings in significantly less, the Nats still complain because it's a tax increase, the Greens are not happy because they want higher taxes and more comprehensive structural change and even Winston is criticizing it. How do Labour stalwarts feel about it?

As a Nat I'm pretty happy with it. 8)
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Jay Cee Gee »

booji boy wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:43 pm
Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:36 pm
booji boy wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:22 pm You delete your post Enz? A pity. I had a masterful response prepared. :)

Yeah, I'm going to give it up. Not worth it when two different parties can do the same thing but one is childish and one is masterful. I can get better insight from Mike Hosking I think.
It's a strange one. If Labour had applied the 39c rate to earnings at say $90k it would bring in significantly more cash to the Govt coffers and TBH is what I was expecting but would bring a lot more criticism from the Nats and possibly affect swinging voters. Instead they bring it in at $180k, which brings in significantly less, the Nats still complain because it's a tax increase, the Greens are not happy because they want higher taxes and more comprehensive structural change and even Winston is criticizing it. How do Labour stalwarts feel about it?

As a Nat I'm pretty happy with it. 8)
Yeah, it's clearly designed to not get offside with middle & upper middle class types. Labour know the Greens have no choice but support them anyway. National can complain but the vast majority of the voters don't care cause it doesn't affect them. And Labour know Winston says any old shit to get elected so they won't worry about that.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

jambanja wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:31 am
Dark wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:06 am Noticed Winston has said ignore anything labour said today if he gets back in
If Labour can’t rule on their own it means they really have shit the bed so regardless of whether he does, by something only Winnie can pull off, get in, it doesn’t matter as they probably won’t need him
I wouldn't surprise me if Labour could rule on their own. Just about the only thing National are really offering is that they are not Labour. Which tbf, will be enough for some people. But their journey of self destruction since the last election has been ongoing and their policies don't inspire a lot of confidence.

Mind you, the thought of a return to one party being totally in charge might frighten a few voters back towards some minor parties that they might perceive as being a handbrake on the extremes. Winnie is probably the most likely beneficiary if that happens.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Jacinda is in my hometown (Taupo) for a few photo opportunities today. Opening the Great Lake Walkway a $3-$4m project that was rushed through by council as it was required in order to host the Ironman 70.3 World Champs in November. That of course has been cancelled but might be hosted in 2021 depending on the global situation re covid. In fact Taupo hosted the last Ironman in March just weeks prior to lockdown. The last Ironman event run globally I believe.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by brat »

Is anyone else disillusioned with nz politics at the moment ?

Both of the main parties are incredibly weak on talent and there’s bugger all good policy being proposed - although nationals meth policy sounds promising

This election looks to be a forgone conclusion with labour getting in on Covid response and bugger all else - meh

David Seymour /act is sounding more appealing by comparison atm..I’m in the Epsom electorate and thinking I might vote for them to get them over the line as national seem doomed anyway
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Santa »

brat wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:49 am Is anyone else disillusioned with nz politics at the moment ?

Both of the main parties are incredibly weak on talent and there’s bugger all good policy being proposed - although nationals meth policy sounds promising

This election looks to be a forgone conclusion with labour getting in on Covid response and bugger all else - meh

David Seymour /act is sounding more appealing by comparison atm..I’m in the Epsom electorate and thinking I might vote for them to get them over the line as national seem doomed anyway
Yes. It is the worst.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Are Dark and Muttonbird having the day off?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

booji boy wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:52 am Are Dark and Muttonbird having the day off?
We should be so lucky.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

This thread has gone very quiet. Labours tax policy taken the wind out of both sides sails? :P
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Fat Old Git »

booji boy wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:44 pm This thread has gone very quiet. Labours tax policy taken the wind out of both sides sails? :P
I think the usual suspects talking smack across each other has probably had a greater affect.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Gordon Bennett »

brat wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:49 am
David Seymour /act is sounding more appealing by comparison atm..I’m in the Epsom electorate and thinking I might vote for them to get them over the line as national seem doomed anyway
Do you actually support ACT's policies though?

A friend of mine said he was going to vote ACT because he's a gun owner and they support guns. I then read him a list of their other policies from their own website and the fact that they seem to have been courting the anti-1080 vote and he looked crestfallen.

Much like some people would love the so-called "blue-green" party, I reckon there's a huge block of people who would vote for a Centrist Pro-Gun party if such a thing existed.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Muttonbirds »

There's about a million things more important that the right to own an AK47. :?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Eugenius »

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-quarter-of ... or-collins

Who says money can’t buy you love ?
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Brabus »

Eugenius wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:58 pm https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-quarter-of ... or-collins

Who says money can’t buy you love ?
When it comes to love It can't buy it but it can get your foot in the door 😉

It is well documented in this country however that money can't buy elections.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by booji boy »

Eugenius wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:58 pm https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-quarter-of ... or-collins

Who says money can’t buy you love ?
You mean 'likes'.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Tehui »

Wignu wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:37 am
booji boy wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:52 am Are Dark and Muttonbird having the day off?
We should be so lucky.
They're a package deal. You should see their ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdximU6Ao00
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Dark »

Eugenius wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:58 pm https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-quarter-of ... or-collins

Who says money can’t buy you love ?
I have always found it funny when it comes to the jealousy of Labour supporters over their lack of ability to get donations.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Monkey Magic »

The more the campaign rolls on the less inspiring things get.

National dont seem to be offering anything we urgently need that labour aren't promising and both main parties seem to have 6 good MPs and then an absolute talent vacuum.

ACT get a boost as Seymour is staring to come across well and is picking up disaffected national voters, but having seen some of their policies and heard a few interviews with the no2 I dread to think of the quality of MP they would bring in.

At the moment I'm not keen on a National/Act government so guess I'll be voting whichever way avoids that. If labour look like being able to go alone I'll potentially switch to Greens as I really don't think it's healthy long term to lose a minor party like them.

If the threshold was only 3% I'd probably vote TOP
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by Wignu »

Tehui wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:12 am
Wignu wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:37 am
booji boy wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:52 am Are Dark and Muttonbird having the day off?
We should be so lucky.
They're a package deal. You should see their ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdximU6Ao00
Hahaha :lol:
Eugenius wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:58 pm https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-quarter-of ... or-collins

Who says money can’t buy you love ?
Well to be fair she's such an unlikable person she'd need to buy friends/likes. Interesting how they're trying to concentrate on her and not the party, an attempt to nullify Adern which is failing miserably, they should try combating Labour via policy instead of insinuation.
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Re: NZ Politics Thread

Post by MungoMan »

Jay Cee Gee wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:19 pm
booji boy wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:43 pm
Enzedder wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:36 pm
booji boy wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:22 pm You delete your post Enz? A pity. I had a masterful response prepared. :)

Yeah, I'm going to give it up. Not worth it when two different parties can do the same thing but one is childish and one is masterful. I can get better insight from Mike Hosking I think.
It's a strange one. If Labour had applied the 39c rate to earnings at say $90k it would bring in significantly more cash to the Govt coffers and TBH is what I was expecting but would bring a lot more criticism from the Nats and possibly affect swinging voters. Instead they bring it in at $180k, which brings in significantly less, the Nats still complain because it's a tax increase, the Greens are not happy because they want higher taxes and more comprehensive structural change and even Winston is criticizing it. How do Labour stalwarts feel about it?

As a Nat I'm pretty happy with it. 8)
Yeah, it's clearly designed to not get offside with middle & upper middle class types. Labour know the Greens have no choice but support them anyway. National can complain but the vast majority of the voters don't care cause it doesn't affect them. And Labour know Winston says any old shit to get elected so they won't worry about that.
I was wondering how NZ's current pay-as-you-earn marginal income tax regime compared to Straya's, so I did a (very) rough calculation.

Leaving aside rebates, deductions etc, Kiwis on $90,000 pa would be paying c.$20,620 in income tax whereas Strayans on the same wicket would be paying $20,797.

This is squarely in bee's dick territory and I am assuming this is not by accident.
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