Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:58 am
Ricardo Menéndez March is ten times the Kiwi Santa will ever be.
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NZ Politics Thread
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Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:30 am
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:54 am
More able to do national law changes with one person than the entire Labour Party
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:56 am
Brownlee was never going to go.Gordon Bennett wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:32 am Collins, Brownlee and Nick Smith all staying on then. Not much chance of a refresh of the Party. Seem to be putting their head in the sand regarding the message from the election.
Mind you, if special votes break against Shane Reti in Whangarei and against the Nats in general, Smith could still be toast.
Only humorous interesting person at question time who can take the piss out of Mallardm as they are actually mates
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:57 am
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:18 am
Newshub reporting there will be no formal coalition with the greens.
Still doesn't mean they will use them as ministers.
Did see interesting point made about how a lot of the labour mps this time around were raw because of the pastings they had copped previously. Hopefully they are more effective this term
National could now be on the same boat, will they be able to hang onto their younger talent so they are effective either in 2023 or 26 when they get back in.
Still doesn't mean they will use them as ministers.
Did see interesting point made about how a lot of the labour mps this time around were raw because of the pastings they had copped previously. Hopefully they are more effective this term
National could now be on the same boat, will they be able to hang onto their younger talent so they are effective either in 2023 or 26 when they get back in.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:21 am
Which comes first: conversion therapy legislation or house building? Under Labour they will likely affect the same number of people so it could be a draw.Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:30 amRicardo Menéndez March is ten times the Kiwi Santa will ever be.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:22 am
I’m aware hanging on to Brownlee ( let alone as deputy ) is peak stupidity .
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:23 am
I can sum up ACT in one word. Bimboman.
Bimboman represents everything you need to know about the ACT party of New Zealand.
The name comes from the initials of the Association of Consumers and Taxpayers.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:26 am
After getting an absolute shafting these guys seem to have learned absolutely nothing. They come out of their dumb caucus meeting doubling down and still ranting about how great they are.
Here's an example. They still believe it was the leaking which led to their catastrophic loss. Newsflash, it's because they and their policies are a bunch of utter plum. Interesting watch this press conference...the Nats have a long, long way to go before they are out of the woods and Darth Ju is most certainly not the person the lead them there.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics ... akers.html
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:40 am
The Greens claim cracked me up.
Most diverse party
10 MPs
70% female and 30% male
40% LGBT compared to out of NZ stats 3.5% population
Yeah massively diverse, unless you aren't a woke, easily triggered bunch of idiots.
Most diverse party
10 MPs
70% female and 30% male
40% LGBT compared to out of NZ stats 3.5% population
Yeah massively diverse, unless you aren't a woke, easily triggered bunch of idiots.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:41 am
Should probably call themselves the "Straight dudes are bad Party) and make up t-shirts"
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:15 am
The Gnats were cold beans on toast the minute they shafted Muller & Keay and reverted to anti-cannabis sentiment.Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:26 amAfter getting an absolute shafting these guys seem to have learned absolutely nothing. They come out of their dumb caucus meeting doubling down and still ranting about how great they are.
Here's an example. They still believe it was the leaking which led to their catastrophic loss. Newsflash, it's because they and their policies are a bunch of utter plum. Interesting watch this press conference...the Nats have a long, long way to go before they are out of the woods and Darth Ju is most certainly not the person the lead them there.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics ... akers.html
The rot started with their support for the firearms fiasco - drain of votes to ACT
then shrieking the death cult capitalism lines about the economy and the urgency of opening NZ up during lockdown
final straw was Mrs Wong Tung [ whom everyone knows will be going thru the VIP entrance to hades] praying to all the media in a carefully chosen church.
The huge Labour party vote in Rural electorates confirms their loathing of hypocrites and a high percentage YES vote for Cannabis reform.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:22 am
I look at the picture of the Labour MPs and two words spring to mind: Alamein Kopu.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:29 am
That's how I see it too Grouch. By supporting the Firearms legislation post Chch it signalled the beginning of a new era for National however they got cold feet and couldn't maintain the facade. They never in hell had a snowballs chance of winning this election once Bridges & Bennett chose to take an oppositional stance on Covid and Cannabis. Had they swallowed their tongues and embraced being a progressive centre right party they might have had a chance at this election and would be in a much better position for 2023 but their poor showing here has most likely blown that too. All hail Queen Jacinda
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:31 am
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:37 am
I'm fine. I'm worried about New Zealand. An inexperienced and largely operationally incompetent government has just been elected and given the power to act pretty well unilaterally, at a time when a steady hand and cool headed competence is urgently needed. That has largely been brought about by an opposition that itself is devastatingly incompetent. Shockingly so. National is still the party of Hooten and Farrar and those guys do not have a clue about the new political currents or realignments.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:44 am
It'll be Ok, worst comes to worst we'll just end up being a vassal state of the next great superpower
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:56 am
I don’t think you need to be too concerned, Ardern is showing the benefits of her three years as PM and understands acutely the benefit of maintaining a centralist approach and the importance of preserving her personal brand over ideologically driven agendas.Santa wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:37 amI'm fine. I'm worried about New Zealand. An inexperienced and largely operationally incompetent government has just been elected and given the power to act pretty well unilaterally, at a time when a steady hand and cool headed competence is urgently needed. That has largely been brought about by an opposition that itself is devastatingly incompetent. Shockingly so. National is still the party of Hooten and Farrar and those guys do not have a clue about the new political currents or realignments.
This may be the most conservation administration we have seen for some time.
Ardern appears to have taken to heart the enormous swing of centre and centre-right voters to Labour, which could be a problem for the Greens. When asked whether the Labour-Green victory was a progressive victory, she demurred.
“I think last night’s vote was a vote of confidence in the plan we have around Covid response and recovery.
“That, for me, was a very clear mandate and that is as well what was shared with me through the course of the campaign,” Ardern said.
She even alluded to the fact New Zealand could still be a progressive country under a centre-right government, something that will sound alarm bells for the Greens, who are worried about the effect of the swing of former National voters to Labour.
“I’d like to think NZ has always been a relatively progressive country, even at times when you may have had a centre right government you still see some of those conscience issues coming through,” Ardern said.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:30 pm
Santa said:
When did they ever?
The Gnats current demise is the inevitable consequence of their toxic and destructive 9 years of government.
Their dirty tricks machine and total control of the media systematically removed the competent and ideologically driven from labour & Greens and what remains is basically ass wipes & sycophants with minimal real world experience.
The 'new political currents' are in fact a desperate need for radical reform in all areas of the economy and society and a ,steady as she goes ,neo-liberal approach is a recipe for permanent disaster.
We can agree on the likelihood of a Cabinet chosen from the available pool of troughers and non-relevant academics achieving what the country needs is somewhere between bugger-all and zero .
The most I can muster in the way of enthusiasm is that I can now be sure that one of the planks of a post-covid recovery won't be building more prisons and incarceration for profit.
I'm fine. I'm worried about New Zealand. An inexperienced and largely operationally incompetent government has just been elected and given the power to act pretty well unilaterally, at a time when a steady hand and cool headed competence is urgently needed. That has largely been brought about by an opposition that itself is devastatingly incompetent. Shockingly so. National is still the party of Hooten and Farrar and those guys do not have a clue about the new political currents or realignments.
When did they ever?
The Gnats current demise is the inevitable consequence of their toxic and destructive 9 years of government.
Their dirty tricks machine and total control of the media systematically removed the competent and ideologically driven from labour & Greens and what remains is basically ass wipes & sycophants with minimal real world experience.
The 'new political currents' are in fact a desperate need for radical reform in all areas of the economy and society and a ,steady as she goes ,neo-liberal approach is a recipe for permanent disaster.
We can agree on the likelihood of a Cabinet chosen from the available pool of troughers and non-relevant academics achieving what the country needs is somewhere between bugger-all and zero .
The most I can muster in the way of enthusiasm is that I can now be sure that one of the planks of a post-covid recovery won't be building more prisons and incarceration for profit.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:49 pm
I'm not convinced that the Nats narrative that they lost the election as voters swung to Labour to lock out the Greens makes much sense.
Firstly, if that were the case, then it shouldn't have had an effect on constituency MPs. You're hardly going to vote out Gerry Brownlee or Herete Hipango in order to lock out the Greens. That's non-sensical. Sure, some of the constituency swings were vastly lower than the party vote swing (e.g. Hutt South, Maungakiekie) but to me that looks to be a function of the candidate rather than the party.
The argument also ignores the principle that a number of Labour voters voted Green to ensure there wasn't a lost left-vote of significant proportions. If rural Nats voters veered Labour, then the same principle naturally applies to Labour voters wanting to ensure that the Greens are not lost.
Personally, I just think this kind of Machiavellian voter is a massive minority.
Equally likely is that liberal National supporters veered away from their previous political home as Judith Collins' brand is toxic to centrist/liberal voters.
The problem for National is that if they hang on to this narrative they seem to have latched onto, its another negative starting point for their term in opposition.
Firstly, if that were the case, then it shouldn't have had an effect on constituency MPs. You're hardly going to vote out Gerry Brownlee or Herete Hipango in order to lock out the Greens. That's non-sensical. Sure, some of the constituency swings were vastly lower than the party vote swing (e.g. Hutt South, Maungakiekie) but to me that looks to be a function of the candidate rather than the party.
The argument also ignores the principle that a number of Labour voters voted Green to ensure there wasn't a lost left-vote of significant proportions. If rural Nats voters veered Labour, then the same principle naturally applies to Labour voters wanting to ensure that the Greens are not lost.
Personally, I just think this kind of Machiavellian voter is a massive minority.
Equally likely is that liberal National supporters veered away from their previous political home as Judith Collins' brand is toxic to centrist/liberal voters.
The problem for National is that if they hang on to this narrative they seem to have latched onto, its another negative starting point for their term in opposition.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:24 pm
Gerry , take the hint !
Christchurch doesn’t want a bar of you .
Christchurch doesn’t want a bar of you .
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:46 pm
Agreed - it's a political spin to try and make the hurt seem less.Personally, I just think this kind of Machiavellian voter is a massive minority.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:22 am
It's far simpler IMO.Gordon Bennett wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:49 pm I'm not convinced that the Nats narrative that they lost the election as voters swung to Labour to lock out the Greens makes much sense.
Firstly, if that were the case, then it shouldn't have had an effect on constituency MPs. You're hardly going to vote out Gerry Brownlee or Herete Hipango in order to lock out the Greens. That's non-sensical. Sure, some of the constituency swings were vastly lower than the party vote swing (e.g. Hutt South, Maungakiekie) but to me that looks to be a function of the candidate rather than the party.
The argument also ignores the principle that a number of Labour voters voted Green to ensure there wasn't a lost left-vote of significant proportions. If rural Nats voters veered Labour, then the same principle naturally applies to Labour voters wanting to ensure that the Greens are not lost.
Personally, I just think this kind of Machiavellian voter is a massive minority.
Equally likely is that liberal National supporters veered away from their previous political home as Judith Collins' brand is toxic to centrist/liberal voters.
The problem for National is that if they hang on to this narrative they seem to have latched onto, its another negative starting point for their term in opposition.
The anti-cannabis parties [ Gnats & NZF ] got caned , particularly in Rural NZ where cannabis use/tolerance is far higher than the policy wonks/spindoctors/lobbyists that infest Wellington and the perpetually dis-informed urbanites elsewhere can comprehend.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:28 am
A massive minority would be 49.9%, I assume he meant a tiny minority. That ruined the entire post for me. I’ve had to put Gordo on ignore to try and get over it.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:40 am
Can't believe how many of the new MPs are lawyers and/or academics. Most have never had a real job.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:16 am
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:21 am
and to be clear, I agree with your point. If anything I suspect any strategic voting probably reduced the Labour party vote as some punted on the Greens being able to wag the tail and drive a more progressive agenda.Gordon Bennett wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:16 am
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:52 am
So, 25 more cases of covid today, most coming from Ukraine and Russia. A bunch of imported fishermen. WTF is this bullshit?
You can't tell me that they can't find Kiwis to crew these boats, or others to operate agricultural machinery. The only reason for imports from Russia and the Ukraine would be Sealord not wanting to pay a decent wage.
As for not filling positions by kiwis in the short term, this has been going on for 25 years. How short term is that? Sealords boats should be tied up until Kiwis are employed. Instead they are out their raping our seas of fish without employing Kiwis.
Sealord is taking the piss, aided and abetted by our politicians. This stinks, and it doesn't smell like rotten fish.
You can't tell me that they can't find Kiwis to crew these boats, or others to operate agricultural machinery. The only reason for imports from Russia and the Ukraine would be Sealord not wanting to pay a decent wage.
As for not filling positions by kiwis in the short term, this has been going on for 25 years. How short term is that? Sealords boats should be tied up until Kiwis are employed. Instead they are out their raping our seas of fish without employing Kiwis.
Sealord is taking the piss, aided and abetted by our politicians. This stinks, and it doesn't smell like rotten fish.
Yesterday 11 fishermen tested positive out of 237 crew who arrived on a flight from Moscow and landed in Christchurch last week.
Last month the Government announced border exceptions for foreign workers, including 30 veterinarians, 570 deep-sea fishing crew, and 210 agricultural and horticultural mobile plant operators.
Shortages in deep-sea fishing workers could not be filled by Kiwis in the short-term, Immigration Minister Kris Faafoi said at the time.
"In exchange for the border exception, the fishing industry has committed to removing barriers to employing New Zealanders, including reviewing pay structures and business models, and investing significantly in training and education." so said Sealord chief executive Doug Paulin. Paulin said the fishing vessels had 100 per cent foreign crew and it had been that way for 25 years.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:57 am
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:01 am
Those are not just boats they have out there. They are ships. They are not pulling fish up on a hand line. And Kiwis have to pay 50 bucks for a kilo of snapper.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:03 am
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:15 am
You might be right but I'm not sure a do nothing approach is the right one in the current circumstances. There have to be some properly bold and well thought through moves I think. No idea what they might be though.Mr Mike wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:56 amI don’t think you need to be too concerned, Ardern is showing the benefits of her three years as PM and understands acutely the benefit of maintaining a centralist approach and the importance of preserving her personal brand over ideologically driven agendas.Santa wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:37 amI'm fine. I'm worried about New Zealand. An inexperienced and largely operationally incompetent government has just been elected and given the power to act pretty well unilaterally, at a time when a steady hand and cool headed competence is urgently needed. That has largely been brought about by an opposition that itself is devastatingly incompetent. Shockingly so. National is still the party of Hooten and Farrar and those guys do not have a clue about the new political currents or realignments.
This may be the most conservation administration we have seen for some time.
Ardern appears to have taken to heart the enormous swing of centre and centre-right voters to Labour, which could be a problem for the Greens. When asked whether the Labour-Green victory was a progressive victory, she demurred.
“I think last night’s vote was a vote of confidence in the plan we have around Covid response and recovery.
“That, for me, was a very clear mandate and that is as well what was shared with me through the course of the campaign,” Ardern said.
She even alluded to the fact New Zealand could still be a progressive country under a centre-right government, something that will sound alarm bells for the Greens, who are worried about the effect of the swing of former National voters to Labour.
“I’d like to think NZ has always been a relatively progressive country, even at times when you may have had a centre right government you still see some of those conscience issues coming through,” Ardern said.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:20 am
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:22 am
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:30 am
Oh please. Labour got back in because they basically did nothing (their utter appaling treatment of partnership schools aside showing that they are more concerned with helping out their mates than NZ's most vulnerable)grouch wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:30 pm Santa said:I'm fine. I'm worried about New Zealand. An inexperienced and largely operationally incompetent government has just been elected and given the power to act pretty well unilaterally, at a time when a steady hand and cool headed competence is urgently needed. That has largely been brought about by an opposition that itself is devastatingly incompetent. Shockingly so. National is still the party of Hooten and Farrar and those guys do not have a clue about the new political currents or realignments.
When did they ever?
The Gnats current demise is the inevitable consequence of their toxic and destructive 9 years of government.
Their dirty tricks machine and total control of the media systematically removed the competent and ideologically driven from labour & Greens and what remains is basically ass wipes & sycophants with minimal real world experience.
The 'new political currents' are in fact a desperate need for radical reform in all areas of the economy and society and a ,steady as she goes ,neo-liberal approach is a recipe for permanent disaster.
We can agree on the likelihood of a Cabinet chosen from the available pool of troughers and non-relevant academics achieving what the country needs is somewhere between bugger-all and zero .
The most I can muster in the way of enthusiasm is that I can now be sure that one of the planks of a post-covid recovery won't be building more prisons and incarceration for profit.
This election was a vote for the status quoe. If Labour go hard out in the direction the likes of Mutton wants them to go they'll be out on their ear next time round.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:36 am
Fair.All I'm saying is her small target strategy of say nothing, promise nothing, plan nothing will likely lead to doing nothing and doing it incoherently, and that trajectory will leave NZ without a first world economy in 10 years. Are there any big vision intellectuals in the Labour party. What does Jacinda actually want New Zealand to look like other than nicer? Big government or small? Lots of SMEs or big public employers? What about the 50% low IQ people being edged out of work as everything becomes computer-based? Do they even think about these things? What actually is their, or her, political philosophy? Do they or she even have one? Nobody knows.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:51 am
Jacinda is basically John Key 2.0 but without the nouce. Smile and wave and get nothing done. And thank the Good Lord for that, God help us if she drops the populism and actually tries to drive change.Santa wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:36 am
All I'm saying is her small target strategy of say nothing, promise nothing, plan nothing will likely lead to doing nothing and doing it incoherently, and that trajectory will leave NZ without a first world economy in 10 years. Are there any big vision intellectuals in the Labour party. What does Jacinda actually want New Zealand to look like other than nicer? Big government or small? Lots of SMEs or big public employers? What about the 50% low IQ people being edged out of work as everything becomes computer-based? Do they even think about these things? What actually is their, or her, political philosophy? Do they or she even have one? Nobody knows.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:58 am
They're not. They're mostly practising lawyers and doctors (including a practising midwife). There are now 14 lawyers in the labour caucus. I'd have thought lawyers were the best people to write the laws.
Re: NZ Politics Thread
Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:04 am