Planet Rugby Forum

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:26 pm A reminder of what situations arose in earlier days:

Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:53 am

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:26 pm A reminder of what situations arose in earlier days:

I vaguely remember a little of that, but the oil shocks were much more impactful.

You also need to consider that during the 50s, 60s, 70s and even the the 80s, we were still madly building our infrastructure up to keep up with post war demand. That included leading edge work at Manapouri and Wairakei. These projects were carried out as public works, though companies such as Downers were heavily involved, under the guidance of the Ministry of Works and the Electricity Department. Publicly funded, designed, built and successfully operated.

However, nothing of substance gas been done since Clyde in the 80s. No private company has stepped up to the plate. In fact, it's pretty safe to say that privatisation of the generation, distribution and retailing of electricity in New Zealand has been an abject failure for the vast majority on New Zealanders and that failure will only compound if the market remains unchanged.

So taking a snap shot of a period in time when there was great change in the world to prove a specious point, is more than a little disingenuous.

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:56 am

Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:53 am

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:26 pm A reminder of what situations arose in earlier days:

I vaguely remember a little of that, but the oil shocks were much more impactful.

You also need to consider that during the 50s, 60s, 70s and even the the 80s, we were still madly building our infrastructure up to keep up with post war demand. That included leading edge work at Manapouri and Wairakei. These projects were carried out as public works, though companies such as Downers were heavily involved, under the guidance of the Ministry of Works and the Electricity Department. Publicly funded, designed, built and successfully operated.

However, nothing of substance gas been done since Clyde in the 80s. No private company has stepped up to the plate. In fact, it's pretty safe to say that privatisation of the generation, distribution and retailing of electricity in New Zealand has been an abject failure for the vast majority on New Zealanders and that failure will only compound if the market remains unchanged.

So taking a snap shot of a period in time when there was great change in the world to prove a specious point, is more than a little disingenuous.

What specious point did I claim to prove?

Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:10 am

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:56 am

Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:53 am

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:26 pm A reminder of what situations arose in earlier days:

I vaguely remember a little of that, but the oil shocks were much more impactful.

You also need to consider that during the 50s, 60s, 70s and even the the 80s, we were still madly building our infrastructure up to keep up with post war demand. That included leading edge work at Manapouri and Wairakei. These projects were carried out as public works, though companies such as Downers were heavily involved, under the guidance of the Ministry of Works and the Electricity Department. Publicly funded, designed, built and successfully operated.

However, nothing of substance gas been done since Clyde in the 80s. No private company has stepped up to the plate. In fact, it's pretty safe to say that privatisation of the generation, distribution and retailing of electricity in New Zealand has been an abject failure for the vast majority on New Zealanders and that failure will only compound if the market remains unchanged.

So taking a snap shot of a period in time when there was great change in the world to prove a specious point, is more than a little disingenuous.

What specious point did I claim to prove?

That this is normal service because back in the day this and that happened. I could add that, back in the day these publicly run entities performed even worse than the commercial entities do today.

Of course you might gave a different spin on what you were cryptically conveying. But then we would gave to ask, what was the flipping point if that?

Currently the wholesale market is prioritised to reduce investment in new generation to a minimum, as the market’s failure on Monday night showed.

The market structure’s focus on marginal pricing to maximise marginal profit came home to roost on its basic flaw: its inability to create affordable and secure new generation capacity that is renewable. It has led to one million tonnes of coal being burned over the last year.

This fact cited by the EA’s MDAG stood out like the proverbial red alert:

“Since the New Zealand wholesale electricity market began operating in October 1996, around 1600 MW of new renewable generation has been built in this country, and around 1500 MW of existing thermal generation has been retired. Projections generally suggest that new renewable generation will need to be built at a rate materially faster than the industry achieved over the market’s first 15 years.” EA MDAG

In other words, there has been virtually no net renewable generation capacity created in 25 years. As this chart from the EA in its submission to the Climate Commission shows, the largest amount of new generation added since 1996 was from coal and gas. It’s the light blue band. The green, yellow and blue bars are wind, hydro and solar. The grey is Geothermal, which is a large emitter of climate emissions too… ie less than half the new generation capacity added in the last 25 has been renewable. More than half was gas and coal. The amount of solar added was pitiful.

(The) ACT leader...wants border restrictions to begin easing at the start of next year, even if rates of vaccination aren't high enough.

"If we can't have risk proportional safe reopening, with antigen testing, rapid testing, with good contact tracing and isolation – if all of that requires vaccination and if vaccination doesn't work then we're isolated forever, so clearly we have to have a <b>plan B</b> from vaccination being the endgame. And if we're not prepared to do it at the start of next year, then when are we prepared to do it?"

Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:10 am

That this is normal service because back in the day this and that happened. I could add that, back in the day these publicly run entities performed even worse than the commercial entities do today.

Of course you might gave a different spin on what you were cryptically conveying. But then we would gave to ask, what was the flipping point if that?

Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:36 am

Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:10 am

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:56 am

Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:53 am

Sonny Blount wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:26 pm A reminder of what situations arose in earlier days:

I vaguely remember a little of that, but the oil shocks were much more impactful.

You also need to consider that during the 50s, 60s, 70s and even the the 80s, we were still madly building our infrastructure up to keep up with post war demand. That included leading edge work at Manapouri and Wairakei. These projects were carried out as public works, though companies such as Downers were heavily involved, under the guidance of the Ministry of Works and the Electricity Department. Publicly funded, designed, built and successfully operated.

However, nothing of substance gas been done since Clyde in the 80s. No private company has stepped up to the plate. In fact, it's pretty safe to say that privatisation of the generation, distribution and retailing of electricity in New Zealand has been an abject failure for the vast majority on New Zealanders and that failure will only compound if the market remains unchanged.

So taking a snap shot of a period in time when there was great change in the world to prove a specious point, is more than a little disingenuous.

What specious point did I claim to prove?

That this is normal service because back in the day this and that happened. I could add that, back in the day these publicly run entities performed even worse than the commercial entities do today.

Of course you might gave a different spin on what you were cryptically conveying. But then we would gave to ask, what was the flipping point if that?

Re generating capacity: I haven't checked out the link but I imagine it is cheery picked. Manapouri alone, NZs largest hydro generator (850mw), was commissioned in the early 70s and; Clyde at 465mw was only commissioned in the early 90s, and Tokaanu, of the so called weed infested intake, commissioned in the 70s, and; Huntly with a combined total of 950mw, NZ's largest single generation site, commissioned in 83, 2004 and 2007.

Sure, as I mentioned previously, fvck all has been done to increase capacity since the generation and market was privatised, which along with gross lack of maintenance was my point re the failings of the private sector in a markets like NZ.

So thank you, once again, for the opportunity.

Edit:

But wait, there's more, lots more.

Extract

Currently the wholesale market is prioritised to reduce investment in new generation to a minimum, as the market’s failure on Monday night showed.

The market structure’s focus on marginal pricing to maximise marginal profit came home to roost on its basic flaw: its inability to create affordable and secure new generation capacity that is renewable. It has led to one million tonnes of coal being burned over the last year.

This fact cited by the EA’s MDAG stood out like the proverbial red alert:

“Since the New Zealand wholesale electricity market began operating in October 1996, around 1600 MW of new renewable generation has been built in this country, and around 1500 MW of existing thermal generation has been retired. Projections generally suggest that new renewable generation will need to be built at a rate materially faster than the industry achieved over the market’s first 15 years.” EA MDAG

In other words, there has been virtually no net renewable generation capacity created in 25 years. As this chart from the EA in its submission to the Climate Commission shows, the largest amount of new generation added since 1996 was from coal and gas. It’s the light blue band. The green, yellow and blue bars are wind, hydro and solar. The grey is Geothermal, which is a large emitter of climate emissions too… ie less than half the new generation capacity added in the last 25 has been renewable. More than half was gas and coal. The amount of solar added was pitiful.

Thank you very much Mr Guy Smiley for posting the article from which the above extract was lifted. I can't recall the author, but I don't think it was Richard Prebble.

Snooze wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:50 pm booji, sorry you were caught up in it. on one of the coldest nights too I believe. I was just reading about the lack of communication. Everyone affected should get a free month of power from them.

booji boy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:54 am

Snooze wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:50 pm booji, sorry you were caught up in it. on one of the coldest nights too I believe. I was just reading about the lack of communication. Everyone affected should get a free month of power from them.

Yeah it was f**king cold. Fortunately we have gas heating so our heating wasn't affected. The extreme cold was one of the reasons for the shortage of supply. Massive demand due to high usage of heaters and heat pumps to warm our homes. Definitely felt like the coldest night of the year to me, at least in Taupo.

guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:44 am So it turns out Transpower made an error in asking for the wrong load shedding numbers and only 1000 or so homes could have been cut off instead of, what was it, about 17000?

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:16 am Level 4 lockdown coming up soon methinks. The language has certainly changed in the last day or two.

Muttonbirds wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:16 am Level 4 lockdown coming up soon methinks. The language has certainly changed in the last day or two.

guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:17 am https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/126037 ... huge-error

Hamilton-based lines company Wel Networks says it was erroneously instructed by Transpower to make massive cuts to the load on its network of “more than 20 per cent” on Monday night.

Information provided by Wel indicated that if Transpower had not made the error, it would only have needed to cut off 1373 homes from power, instead of cutting power to a total of 17,752 homes as it did.

Transpower chief executive Alison Andrew acknowledged on Wednesday that the national grid operator had made an error when translating a 1 per cent load cut into individual ‘megawatt’ allocations that lines companies were told not to exceed on Monday night.

However, the scale of the error claimed by Wel had not been made clear before Wel’s statement, which appears to highlight Transpower’s culpability for the power cuts.

Transpower also asked other lines companies to make deeper cuts or smaller cuts than necessary, but Andrew said in some other cases its error was picked up before the cuts were made.


***************************

“Under government regulation we must adhere to instruction from the system operator in an emergency and that is exactly what we did,” Dibley said.

“It should be noted that we were instructed to act with immediate effect and did not have visibility of the deficit in generation that Transpower was trying to manage or what has been requested of others,” he added.

Dibley said Wel Networks “repeatedly questioned” Transpower regarding the volume of the load it had instructed the company to drop.

“However, Transpower was insistent on the volume,” he said.

Transpower earlier sidestepped questions on whether it expected Genesis Energy to turn on the third coal-fired turbine at its Huntly power station when it asked generators to increase their energy offers on Monday afternoon.


Wel’s revelation came as recriminations continued to rage on over the power cuts that left about 20,000 homes in the central and eastern North Island without electricity on Monday evening, when a forecast cold snap coincided with an unplanned outage of Genesis’ Tokaanu hydro power station on the Tongariro River.

Transpower first warned at 6.42am on Monday of a possible power shortage between 5.30pm and 8.30pm that evening, but it was not until 1.02pm that the grid operator issued another amber warning specifically requesting generators “increase their energy offers”.

Genesis said its Rankine unit takes “more than six hours” and usually closer to 8½ hours to generate a “meaningful amount” of energy, and “up to 10 hours” to reach full capacity.

Transpower declared a grid emergency at 5.10pm though it was not until 6.47pm that it ordered lines companies to make 1 per cent cuts, triggering the rolling outages.

Transpower spokeswoman Deborah Gray would not say on Wednesday whether Transpower had expected Genesis would fire-up its Rankine unit as a result of its 1.02pm notice, or why – if it did have that expectation – it did not communicate that directly to Genesis.

Enzedder wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:34 am I'm washing my hair

guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:24 pm https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/44 ... p-aotearoa

live streaming the PM's announcement of plans to come out of this current phase of Covid management

guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:54 pm

Kiwias wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:45 pm

guy smiley wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:24 pm https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/44 ... p-aotearoa

live streaming the PM's announcement of plans to come out of this current phase of Covid management

A small step closer to being able to visit my family and grandkids at some time in the sort-of near future.

Slow small steps mate..

a brief outline;

aiming for fully vaccinated population of those who want it by end of year.. some small adjustments underway to that process but proceeding to plan, their aim is to avoid having pockets of mass unvaccinated people, going for an even spread,

early in the new year staged border openings will begin, with employer involvement at first with trials of vaccinated people travelling and returning. Some ideas around rapid testing technology coming online as appropriate along with models for isolating including home iso and shorter periods... this is contingent on enough people being vaccinated.

Later travel will open as other countries are identified as reasonable risk and added to a list and some sort of vaccine pass is available. MOH is working towards having an online portal for prospective arrivals to use to document their vaccine history and travel movements, that will be a manual process at first.

Elimination strategy remains the guiding principle as that has allowed greater options than other countries who have chosen a different pathway... the aim is to eventually open up again and the exact nature of how that will work is still too hard to predict with certainty.

guy smiley wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:10 am We are a long way from any sort of 'normal' yet but it is good to note there is a desire to open and a plan being formed, bearing in mind the uncertainty around covid variants...

Kiwias wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:29 am

guy smiley wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:10 am We are a long way from any sort of 'normal' yet but it is good to note there is a desire to open and a plan being formed, bearing in mind the uncertainty around covid variants...

Very much this.

Kiwias wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:46 am I just listened to the PM's full address on the plans for reopening the borders and just need to say that NZ is bloody lucky to have this PM. There has been nothing even remotely similar to this from anyone high up in the Japanese government throughout the entire duration of the pandemic.

FFS, I still don't know whether my permanent residence remains valid if I leave Japan for any period of time.

Auckman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:53 am Agreed. Especially in light of the cluster NSW has got itself into. Most people Ive come across here in Sydney want Pfizer but Canberra has a vested interest in promoting AstraZeneca due to some manufacturing deal.

Auckman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:53 am Anyway, NZ has made a great decision to go only with Pfizer straight off the bat. A decision it made early in the piece.

kiap wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 4:04 am

Auckman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:53 am Agreed. Especially in light of the cluster NSW has got itself into. Most people Ive come across here in Sydney want Pfizer but Canberra has a vested interest in promoting AstraZeneca due to some manufacturing deal.

No, that's assigning them too much credit. Canberra fvcked up on securing Pfizer. They know it too, but won't admit it. The AZ deal was (and still is) okay but they put too many eggs in that basket.

Auckman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:53 am Anyway, NZ has made a great decision to go only with Pfizer straight off the bat. A decision it made early in the piece.

NZ do get more credit - but for elimination strategy more than on vaccines. Could still be last out of the gate within the OECD.

JB1981 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:40 am Have any other Wellington based posters seen the Portlander’s burger for Wellington on a Plate?

The Übermensch .

https://www.portlander.co.nz/specials/w ... bermensch/

Ted. wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:57 am

JB1981 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:40 am Have any other Wellington based posters seen the Portlander’s burger for Wellington on a Plate?

The Übermensch .

https://www.portlander.co.nz/specials/w ... bermensch/

Nah, but that's a date.

Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:14 am Glad they've adapted the plan and have the resource to open up vaccine for all over 16. Interesting they've pushed the 3 week gap to a recommendation of 6 weeks for second jab, assume that means they would have more resources available to get first jabs into more people.

Wife must be in a target group as she was offered to do it this weekend, unfortunately I'm away so can't get mine done at the same time.

Tehui wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:47 am

Ted. wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:57 am

JB1981 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:40 am Have any other Wellington based posters seen the Portlander’s burger for Wellington on a Plate?

The Übermensch .

https://www.portlander.co.nz/specials/w ... bermensch/

Nah, but that's a date.

Yeah, I'll have to give it a go too. For research purposes.

booji boy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:39 am

Tehui wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:47 am

Ted. wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:57 am

JB1981 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:40 am Have any other Wellington based posters seen the Portlander’s burger for Wellington on a Plate?

The Übermensch .

https://www.portlander.co.nz/specials/w ... bermensch/

Nah, but that's a date.

Yeah, I'll have to give it a go too. For research purposes.

Looks scrumptious.

Speaking of burgers I'm flying to Queenstown Monday night and figure now must be the best time ever to get a Ferg's Burger with the lack of international tourists.

Fat Old Git wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:59 am

booji boy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:39 am

Tehui wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:47 am

Ted. wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:57 am

JB1981 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:40 am Have any other Wellington based posters seen the Portlander’s burger for Wellington on a Plate?

The Übermensch .

https://www.portlander.co.nz/specials/w ... bermensch/

Nah, but that's a date.

Yeah, I'll have to give it a go too. For research purposes.

Looks scrumptious.

Speaking of burgers I'm flying to Queenstown Monday night and figure now must be the best time ever to get a Ferg's Burger with the lack of international tourists.

They still had long queues when we were there a month ago. But you can do a phone order and then just turn up at the window. Although they didn't answer their phone the first night we were there. So we skipped it and had them for lunch the best day instead when they were picking up.

Kiwias wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:29 am

guy smiley wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:10 am We are a long way from any sort of 'normal' yet but it is good to note there is a desire to open and a plan being formed, bearing in mind the uncertainty around covid variants...

Very much this.

booji boy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:35 am

Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:14 am Glad they've adapted the plan and have the resource to open up vaccine for all over 16. Interesting they've pushed the 3 week gap to a recommendation of 6 weeks for second jab, assume that means they would have more resources available to get first jabs into more people.

Wife must be in a target group as she was offered to do it this weekend, unfortunately I'm away so can't get mine done at the same time.

My wife has had both hers and tried to book mine this weekend. The only time available was 12.30 Saturday but I'm playing golf then next week I'm away skiing ⛷so I have booked the day I get back 25th August. It feels good to finally have my first jab booked. Second jab on 6th October.

Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:48 pm

booji boy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:35 am

Monkey Magic wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:14 am Glad they've adapted the plan and have the resource to open up vaccine for all over 16. Interesting they've pushed the 3 week gap to a recommendation of 6 weeks for second jab, assume that means they would have more resources available to get first jabs into more people.

Wife must be in a target group as she was offered to do it this weekend, unfortunately I'm away so can't get mine done at the same time.

My wife has had both hers and tried to book mine this weekend. The only time available was 12.30 Saturday but I'm playing golf then next week I'm away skiing ⛷so I have booked the day I get back 25th August. It feels good to finally have my first jab booked. Second jab on 6th October.

Yeah Ive got golf this weekend, but while her invite said bring any of your whanau, technically I can't start making my own booking until 1st September. Maybe she's just been lying to me for nearly 20 years and she's over 50

booji boy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:01 pm

Fat Old Git wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:59 am

booji boy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:39 am

Tehui wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:47 am

Ted. wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:57 am

Nah, but that's a date.

Yeah, I'll have to give it a go too. For research purposes.

Looks scrumptious.

Speaking of burgers I'm flying to Queenstown Monday night and figure now must be the best time ever to get a Ferg's Burger with the lack of international tourists.

They still had long queues when we were there a month ago. But you can do a phone order and then just turn up at the window. Although they didn't answer their phone the first night we were there. So we skipped it and had them for lunch the best day instead when they were picking up.

Was the Trans Tasman bubble still open then?