The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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redderneck
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by redderneck »

PornDog wrote:
bobbyfatfingers wrote:
Floppykid wrote:Earls isn't a centre and his career has suffered no end from him being shoe horned there.
has he not reportedly asked to be considered as a centre primarily?
Yes but he's obviously a f**king gobshite.

I truly believe that with regular gametime there he could be a great international winger. He'll never amount to more than a mediocre center, even at club level. Such a waste of talent.

Having said that, Munster haven't even had a mediocre center (before this season) to play instead of him so it did make sense for them to play him there (province before country - bastards!!!! :P )

I genuinely believe that his statements about playing in the center is him actually just trying to give himself the best chance of playing for Ireland. Seeing the growing competition for wing, and realising that BOD will soon be on his way out (and picking up more injuries) he went after the soon to be vacant position. And decided to take a leaf out of ROG's book x( and make that play through the media.

Like I said, f**king gobshite!!!
I preferred you with your old avatar.
etherman
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by etherman »

NineInchNile wrote:Dropping BOD as captain was probably the right decision. He is perennially injured, coming into his final year/s, and is living off reputation rather than form. Earls' showings in the 6N were of a similar standard to anything BOD has showed in green since 2009; he was solid with some nice touches. BOD shouldn't be guaranteed his spot in the team, and being removed as captain reflects that. Although i'd have some issues about Heaslip's ability as captain, he is probably the only player with decent captaincy experience who is guaranteed his place in the squad.
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NineInchNile
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by NineInchNile »

etherman wrote:
NineInchNile wrote:Dropping BOD as captain was probably the right decision. He is perennially injured, coming into his final year/s, and is living off reputation rather than form. Earls' showings in the 6N were of a similar standard to anything BOD has showed in green since 2009; he was solid with some nice touches. BOD shouldn't be guaranteed his spot in the team, and being removed as captain reflects that. Although i'd have some issues about Heaslip's ability as captain, he is probably the only player with decent captaincy experience who is guaranteed his place in the squad.
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I'd prefer Best to be captain and think he should be guaranteed his starting spot, but Kidney mightn't see it that way.
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earl the beaver
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by earl the beaver »

That Ulster selection looks like we'llbe going for a faster game and drag the Castres pack about, the front 5 while all big men gave good engines, Best, Afoa and Stevenson in particular. Marshall at 9 will be under orders to get there and chuck it to Pienaar as quick as humanly possibly, not going to be much tactical kicking from the back 3 either.

Feel for Jackson he's never really had a chance to recover form after getting the knock a while back,but he provides some impact on the bench, as does Henderson and that's good, considering the injuries we have it's a bloody good side.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by etherman »

soyhmf wrote:
camroc1 wrote:Leinster team :

Leinster: Rob Kearney; Isa Nacewa, Brian O’Driscoll, Gordon D’Arcy, Luke Fitzgerald; Jonathan Sexton, Eoin Reddan; Cian Healy, Richardt Strauss, Mike Ross; Leo Cullen, Devin Toner; Kevin McLaughlin, Sean O'Brien, Jamie Heaslip. Replacements: Sean Cronin, Heinke van der Merwe, Michael Bent, Rhys Ruddock, Shane Jennings, Isaac Boss, Ian Madigan, Fergus McFadden.

I like it.
Strong bench too! Fergus McFadden will be disappointed...
Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
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Uncle Fester
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Uncle Fester »

bobbyfatfingers wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
bobbyfatfingers wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:Talking of BOD, would his form prior to injury merit inclusion in the team? He really wasn't very good. Other more ruthless nations would be cutting him for that alone.

And yes, I know Earls has been ropey too.

Munster revisionism

i suppose you've forgotten his hattrick against France, you wanker
I remember it like it was current form bobby.
right, well, what about that try for the Lions in Australia?

typical short memory if deccie says he's shit he's shit brown nosing from a fellow cork man
And his first ever game against Munster for Leinster in Temple Hill, attended by 3 men and a dog. We were training on the side pitch so we ambled over to have a look. He made a break from his own 22 to the Munster 22.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

Uncle Fester wrote:Talking of BOD, would his form prior to injury merit inclusion in the team? He really wasn't very good. Other more ruthless nations would be cutting him for that alone.

And yes, I know Earls has been ropey too.
Other ruthless nations would be dropping other whiney feckers as well :P

I have no issue with Heaslip taking over as captain let BOD hopefully regain his form. He still has the skills but doesn't threaten ball in hand like he used to. Earls skills are sadly lacking but prob bigger threat ball in hand.
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camroc1
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by camroc1 »

Toulon have picked a near full strength side for the Montpelier match. Good.

L'équipe toulonnaise :
15.Delon ARMITAGE ; 14.Rudi WULF, 13.Maxime MERMOZ, 12.Matt GITEAU, 11.Alexis PALISSON ; 10.Jonny WILKINSON (cap), 9.Frédéric MICHALAK ; 8.Chris MASOE, 7.Steffon ARMITAGE, 6.Pierrick GUNTHER ; 5.Jocelino SUTA, 4.Simon SHAW ; 3.Davit KUBRIASHVILI, 2.Mickaël IVALDI, 1.Andrew SHERIDAN.
Les remplaçants :
16.Jean-Charles ORIOLI, 17.Gethin JENKINS, 18.Carl HAYMAN, 19.Nick KENNEDY, 20.Mathieu BASTAREAUD, 21.Juan-Martin FERNANDEZ LOBBE, 22.Vincent MARTIN, 23.Joe VAN NIEKERK.
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danthefan
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by danthefan »

BOD hasn't played much this season and he did have some good games before he was injured.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by MunsterMan!!!!! »

camroc1 wrote:Toulon have picked a near full strength side for the Montpelier match. Good.

L'équipe toulonnaise :
15.Delon ARMITAGE ; 14.Rudi WULF, 13.Maxime MERMOZ, 12.Matt GITEAU, 11.Alexis PALISSON ; 10.Jonny WILKINSON (cap), 9.Frédéric MICHALAK ; 8.Chris MASOE, 7.Steffon ARMITAGE, 6.Pierrick GUNTHER ; 5.Jocelino SUTA, 4.Simon SHAW ; 3.Davit KUBRIASHVILI, 2.Mickaël IVALDI, 1.Andrew SHERIDAN.
Les remplaçants :
16.Jean-Charles ORIOLI, 17.Gethin JENKINS, 18.Carl HAYMAN, 19.Nick KENNEDY, 20.Mathieu BASTAREAUD, 21.Juan-Martin FERNANDEZ LOBBE, 22.Vincent MARTIN, 23.Joe VAN NIEKERK.

Look at the bench :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by NineInchNile »

danthefan wrote:BOD hasn't played much this season and he did have some good games before he was injured.
He was good in the game he got injured in, but he was poor for Leinster otherwise. He was also poor-to-average in NZ. He was also the man to lead us to our worst ever defeat in the final NZ test. Its understandable he was stripped of his captaincy.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

NineInchNile wrote:
danthefan wrote:BOD hasn't played much this season and he did have some good games before he was injured.
He was good in the game he got injured in, but he was poor for Leinster otherwise. He was also poor-to-average in NZ. He was also the man to lead us to our worst ever defeat in the final NZ test. Its understandable he was stripped of his captaincy.
I presume you use the same standard when evaluating every player involved in the Irish squad
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

redderneck wrote:
Hellraiser wrote:I really wish the media would get people other than former teammates/mates of current players to talk about things like the captaincy issue. Quinny is trying to be objective but Shaggy is being really over-emotive about the whole thing.
Listened to that last night and thought the same. Shaggy let himself down a bit - for the right reasons though.

The thing that struck me as perhaps most worth debating about the whole Captaincy issue was utterly ignored.

There are reasons for and against BOD retaining the job/it being handed over. But for me the core consideration should be that if it is given elsewhere, that the receiver is up to the task - and sorry; Heaslip leaves me hugely underwhelmed. That, for me would have been worth debating a bit. Rory Best? Between injuries, form of other hookers etc, might not be 'guaranteed' a straight 6N run. I'd guess that 'most likely to' have a straight run through figured high in Kidney's mind.

Regardless: Kidney needs to realise that he needs to be a bit more forthcoming with his reasoning - not full disclosure or anything like it - but he can't expect the media or fans to lap up his line of cliche/platitudes and like it.

I suspect Kidney has reached a point where he couldn't be bothered changing his ways, as he knows he's not there for much longer regardless.

But Shaggy came across as the best friend of the dumped boyfriend arguing the case with the ex-girlfriend. Bit wet. :blush:
I don't understand why Heaslip could possibly leave anyone underwhelmed at this stage. His record as captain for Leinster and Ireland is something like won 15, lost 1 and he has always been a strong character.

It just seems like writing someone off before giving them a chance. It's going to be very hard to win any of his detractors over at this stage because the media seems to be gunning for him already and will keep up the perception that he's doing a poor job even if he isn't.

It reminds me of how he had a huge amount of detractors before he made it into the first choice Irish side with people point blank refusing to acknowledge his massive workrate and obvious all round play.

EDIT: Btw, redder, not saying the last paragraph applies to you nor most of the 2nd paragraph.
Last edited by CM11 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Luckycharmer »

CM11 wrote:
redderneck wrote:
Hellraiser wrote:I really wish the media would get people other than former teammates/mates of current players to talk about things like the captaincy issue. Quinny is trying to be objective but Shaggy is being really over-emotive about the whole thing.
Listened to that last night and thought the same. Shaggy let himself down a bit - for the right reasons though.

The thing that struck me as perhaps most worth debating about the whole Captaincy issue was utterly ignored.

There are reasons for and against BOD retaining the job/it being handed over. But for me the core consideration should be that if it is given elsewhere, that the receiver is up to the task - and sorry; Heaslip leaves me hugely underwhelmed. That, for me would have been worth debating a bit. Rory Best? Between injuries, form of other hookers etc, might not be 'guaranteed' a straight 6N run. I'd guess that 'most likely to' have a straight run through figured high in Kidney's mind.

Regardless: Kidney needs to realise that he needs to be a bit more forthcoming with his reasoning - not full disclosure or anything like it - but he can't expect the media or fans to lap up his line of cliche/platitudes and like it.

I suspect Kidney has reached a point where he couldn't be bothered changing his ways, as he knows he's not there for much longer regardless.

But Shaggy came across as the best friend of the dumped boyfriend arguing the case with the ex-girlfriend. Bit wet. :blush:
I don't understand why Heaslip could possibly leave anyone underwhelmed at this stage. His record as captain for Leinster and Ireland is something like won 15, lost 1 and he has always been a strong character.

It just seems like writing someone off before giving them a chance. It's going to be very hard to win any of his detractors over at this stage because the media seems to be gunning for him already and will keep up the perception that he's doing a poor job even if he isn't.

It reminds me of how he had a huge amount of detractors before he made it into the first choice Irish side with people point blank refusing to acknowledge his massive workrate and obvious all round play.
He just needs to get Frankie as his agent to "Promote" him on TV
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Rabulah Conundrum
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Rabulah Conundrum »

Ah, never mind Heaslip's actual playing record - he wears flashy boots, listens to music on those big Dr. Dre ear yokes (music, for fudge's sake) and celebrated that try against Scotland before even grounding the ball. A preening dilettante like that can't be trusted with the captaincy of our proud nation.

:roll:
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by MunsterMan!!!!! »

CM11 wrote:
redderneck wrote:
Hellraiser wrote:I really wish the media would get people other than former teammates/mates of current players to talk about things like the captaincy issue. Quinny is trying to be objective but Shaggy is being really over-emotive about the whole thing.
Listened to that last night and thought the same. Shaggy let himself down a bit - for the right reasons though.

The thing that struck me as perhaps most worth debating about the whole Captaincy issue was utterly ignored.

There are reasons for and against BOD retaining the job/it being handed over. But for me the core consideration should be that if it is given elsewhere, that the receiver is up to the task - and sorry; Heaslip leaves me hugely underwhelmed. That, for me would have been worth debating a bit. Rory Best? Between injuries, form of other hookers etc, might not be 'guaranteed' a straight 6N run. I'd guess that 'most likely to' have a straight run through figured high in Kidney's mind.

Regardless: Kidney needs to realise that he needs to be a bit more forthcoming with his reasoning - not full disclosure or anything like it - but he can't expect the media or fans to lap up his line of cliche/platitudes and like it.

I suspect Kidney has reached a point where he couldn't be bothered changing his ways, as he knows he's not there for much longer regardless.

But Shaggy came across as the best friend of the dumped boyfriend arguing the case with the ex-girlfriend. Bit wet. :blush:
I don't understand why Heaslip could possibly leave anyone underwhelmed at this stage. His record as captain for Leinster and Ireland is something like won 15, lost 1 and he has always been a strong character.

It just seems like writing someone off before giving them a chance. It's going to be very hard to win any of his detractors over at this stage because the media seems to be gunning for him already and will keep up the perception that he's doing a poor job even if he isn't.

It reminds me of how he had a huge amount of detractors before he made it into the first choice Irish side with people point blank refusing to acknowledge his massive workrate and obvious all round play.

While there is no doubt some absolute wankers that don't want Heaslip because he is not their sort of guy, unfortunately small-mindness is a big problem in Ireland.

I would have rather Best as my captain as over the last few years I think he has better than Heaslip and have more experinece at captaincy that Heaslip with his province.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by waguser »

I hope Heaslip makes a great captain

(he needs to get rid of the white boots. For good.)

this isn't about heaslip

it's about Bod

and he has been treated appallingly by Kidney

appallingly
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DOB
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

waguser wrote:I hope Heaslip makes a great captain

(he needs to get rid of the white boots. For good.)

this isn't about heaslip

it's about Bod

and he has been treated appallingly by Kidney

appallingly
How so, though?

He's been Ireland captain for 10 years now, and he's not the player he once was. Kidney decides to give the captaincy to a younger player (who is himself a senior player at this stage). I don't see what the fuss is.

As for suggestions that this might cost BOD the Lions captaincy, people tend to forget that Johnson wasn't England captain in '97. He didn't even get the England job until Dayglo's tabloid adventures.

There's plenty to give Kidney shit about. Taking the captaincy from a 33 (soon to be 34) year old centre and giving it to a 29 year old number 8 is not it.


Edit to add; I'll be seriously pissed off if Earls gets picked at 13 against Wales, but that's a separate issue to BOD and the captaincy.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by camroc1 »

I agree with DOB.

It's BODs last season - time to blood a new captain.

I did have nightmares last night about that 9 - 10 -12 - 13 combination though.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

I also agree that Best is unlucky to be passed over for the job, but he and Heaslip were the 2 obvious next-in-lines, and it is, after all, Kidney's decision to make. He's probably "known Jamie for a long time" etc etc.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by danthefan »

DOB wrote:I also agree that Best is unlucky to be passed over for the job, but he and Heaslip were the 2 obvious next-in-lines, and it is, after all, Kidney's decision to make. He's probably "known Jamie for a long time" etc etc.
Did he coach Heaslip on the successful U19 side from years back?
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by alliswell »

Best doesn't have a huge amount more experience of captaincy than Heaslip. It's a couple of years since he was Ulster captain.
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DOB
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

danthefan wrote:
DOB wrote:I also agree that Best is unlucky to be passed over for the job, but he and Heaslip were the 2 obvious next-in-lines, and it is, after all, Kidney's decision to make. He's probably "known Jamie for a long time" etc etc.
Did he coach Heaslip on the successful U19 side from years back?
The year Heaslip played on the U20s, Kidney was either coaching Munster, or had recently taken the Ireland assistant job under Eddie.

If they had any dealings prior to Deccie taking over from Eddie, it was when Heaslip was involved with the Leinster squad, but still finishing his degree so not focussing on rugby 100%. The following year (Vic retired, Cheika came in) he became Leinster no8.
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waguser
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by waguser »

Shane Horgan said it last night

Deccie has no reason to fire BOD
he did so against BODS wishes and without bods agreement

the only possible reason is that deccie is going to drop him
probably for keet.
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

DOB wrote:
danthefan wrote:
DOB wrote:I also agree that Best is unlucky to be passed over for the job, but he and Heaslip were the 2 obvious next-in-lines, and it is, after all, Kidney's decision to make. He's probably "known Jamie for a long time" etc etc.
Did he coach Heaslip on the successful U19 side from years back?
The year Heaslip played on the U20s, Kidney was either coaching Munster, or had recently taken the Ireland assistant job under Eddie.

If they had any dealings prior to Deccie taking over from Eddie, it was when Heaslip was involved with the Leinster squad, but still finishing his degree so not focussing on rugby 100%. The following year (Vic retired, Cheika came in) he became Leinster no8.
It was U21s at the time and it was 2004, when Ireland reached the WC final.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Loving the Leinster team, btw. First choice bar 2nd row (and even then it could be argued that's first choice). I guess Browne's injured? Denton has either completely underwhelmed or is injured too.

That's definitely a team and bench that can get the required result. Just hope it matters.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by danthefan »

CM11 wrote:Loving the Leinster team, btw. First choice bar 2nd row (and even then it could be argued that's first choice). I guess Browne's injured? Denton has either completely underwhelmed or is injured too.

That's definitely a team and bench that can get the required result. Just hope it matters.
The second row is pants but apart from that it's a damn good side. If they click, who knows?

I know we've seen fudge all of him but I wish Roux was fit.
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DOB
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

waguser wrote:Shane Horgan said it last night

Deccie has no reason to fire BOD
he did so against BODS wishes and without bods agreement


the only possible reason is that deccie is going to drop him
probably for keet.
BOD has to be replaced at some stage. It might as well be now, when he's just back from injury and we don't know if he'll earn his place in the team.

"Without BOD's agreement"? I'm quite sure BOD didn't agree that he should step down as skipper. That's beside the point, though, isn't it. Sexton's starting, without ROG's agreement. It doesn't mean ROG has any right to complain that he isn't starting.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by thekingsnotdead »

So foreigners in this year:

Michael Bent, Tom Denton, Quinn Roux, Andrew Goodman, CJ Stander, Casey Laulala, Nick Williams

Who are the hits and who are the misses?
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anonymous_joe
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by anonymous_joe »

Nick Williams has done well.

So has Stander.
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waguser
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by waguser »

DOB wrote:
waguser wrote:Shane Horgan said it last night

Deccie has no reason to fire BOD
he did so against BODS wishes and without bods agreement


the only possible reason is that deccie is going to drop him
probably for keet.
BOD has to be replaced at some stage. It might as well be now, when he's just back from injury and we don't know if he'll earn his place in the team.

"Without BOD's agreement"? I'm quite sure BOD didn't agree that he should step down as skipper. That's beside the point, though, isn't it. Sexton's starting, without ROG's agreement. It doesn't mean ROG has any right to complain that he isn't starting.
Well at least that's an argument and if Deccie believes that he should have the balls to say it

but instead he is full of shit.

I actually disagree with you

I think BOD is way way way better than any other Irish 13.

The point though
is that Deccie didn't have the balls to say it.
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DOB
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

waguser wrote:
DOB wrote:
waguser wrote:Shane Horgan said it last night

Deccie has no reason to fire BOD
he did so against BODS wishes and without bods agreement


the only possible reason is that deccie is going to drop him
probably for keet.
BOD has to be replaced at some stage. It might as well be now, when he's just back from injury and we don't know if he'll earn his place in the team.

"Without BOD's agreement"? I'm quite sure BOD didn't agree that he should step down as skipper. That's beside the point, though, isn't it. Sexton's starting, without ROG's agreement. It doesn't mean ROG has any right to complain that he isn't starting.
Well at least that's an argument and if Deccie believes that he should have the balls to say it

but instead he is full of shit.

I actually disagree with you

I think BOD is way way way better than any other Irish 13.

The point though
is that Deccie didn't have the balls to say it.
I think BOD at his best was the best no13 Ireland has ever produced. It's clear he's a long way short of that standard right now, but most would agree he's still slightly ahead of the other contenders. But it's close enough now that "who's BOD's replacement" is a conversation worth having. Personally I think Cave is an excellent 13 and would be quite happy to see him get some game time in the 6N.

Deccie's never been the type to talk players down so he's never going to say "Brian's gotten a bit shit so we're taking the captaincy from him."

If Earls starts at 13 against Wales, I'll be pissed off at Kidney then. But until I see that teamsheet, I'll hold off on the criticism.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by thekingsnotdead »

BOD is still the captain of my heart.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Armchair_Superstar »

Heaslip is the incumbent and the only recent captain with a decent run of games under his belt. O'Driscoll has been a good captain, Best did well last year, but both of them are coming back from injury. I really don't think it matters a shite, we're lucky to have some very strong characters in the team.

I have a suspicion the backs will go shite in the 6 Nations, it would be good to see Luke Marshall and BOD in the centre and some pace out wide but I doubt it'll happen.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by anonymous_joe »

thekingsnotdead wrote:BOD is still the captain of my heart.
Always. :lol:

With D'Arcy alongside him, flanked by Shaggy and Hickie, Girve behind. Fitz and Kearny on the bench to come in...
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DOB
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

anonymous_joe wrote:
thekingsnotdead wrote:BOD is still the captain of my heart.
Always. :lol:

With D'Arcy alongside him, flanked by Shaggy and Hickie, Girve behind. Fitz and Kearny on the bench to come in...
And Felipe... always with Felipe...
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by thekingsnotdead »

Jesus, Dr Phil v Sexton and Kearney v Girve in a all time Leinster XV would be a very hard choice
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by anonymous_joe »

DOB wrote:
anonymous_joe wrote:
thekingsnotdead wrote:BOD is still the captain of my heart.
Always. :lol:

With D'Arcy alongside him, flanked by Shaggy and Hickie, Girve behind. Fitz and Kearny on the bench to come in...
And Felipe... always with Felipe...
Does it even need to be said.

The scrum-half needs to be shit too.

Edit: Bommer.
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danthefan
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by danthefan »

thekingsnotdead wrote:Jesus, Dr Phil v Sexton and Kearney v Girve in a all time Leinster XV would be a very hard choice
Would have to go for Sexton anyway. His 10/11 season was as good as any 10 has had in the HEC.
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waguser
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by waguser »

thekingsnotdead wrote:Jesus, Dr Phil v Sexton and Kearney v Girve in a all time Leinster XV would be a very hard choice
sexton 10 Dr Phil 12

(sorry d'arcy)
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