The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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DOB
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

dameshirleybassey wrote:
Mulleh wrote:After watching Henshaw going through the system he wasn't all that great before he got his first Connacht cap. Looked good at club level for his age but nobody thought he had this sort of potential.

He absolutely exploded onto the team and has become on of our most exciting prospects! It's nuts, he was playing for bucs this time last year
Ahem... He was actually playing schools rugby for the Marist this time last season. Hopefully he'll have an Ireland start by the end of June as the earlier they get into the team the better. BOD is proof of this.

The likes of Nagle should be overlooked at this stage imo. He has missed the boat through his own unwillingness to insist on game time, either at Munster or in the UK. Ireland need their locks to be able to complete with the likes of Joe Launchbury who is way ahead of Nagle and 4 years his junior.
But then D'Arcy would be an example of someone who was better off for having a couple of seasons not involved with Ireland.

There's no need for the IRFU or Ireland management to get involved with what Nagle is or isn't doing. That's for himself and his province, or whichever club he moves to next, to determine. If he doesn't make it into a first team somewhere, then maybe he just isn't good enough.
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binge90
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by binge90 »

Griffin is Darren Cave with pace.
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

DOB wrote:
dameshirleybassey wrote:
Mulleh wrote:After watching Henshaw going through the system he wasn't all that great before he got his first Connacht cap. Looked good at club level for his age but nobody thought he had this sort of potential.

He absolutely exploded onto the team and has become on of our most exciting prospects! It's nuts, he was playing for bucs this time last year
Ahem... He was actually playing schools rugby for the Marist this time last season. Hopefully he'll have an Ireland start by the end of June as the earlier they get into the team the better. BOD is proof of this.

The likes of Nagle should be overlooked at this stage imo. He has missed the boat through his own unwillingness to insist on game time, either at Munster or in the UK. Ireland need their locks to be able to complete with the likes of Joe Launchbury who is way ahead of Nagle and 4 years his junior.
But then D'Arcy would be an example of someone who was better off for having a couple of seasons not involved with Ireland.

There's no need for the IRFU or Ireland management to get involved with what Nagle is or isn't doing. That's for himself and his province, or whichever club he moves to next, to determine. If he doesn't make it into a first team somewhere, then maybe he just isn't good enough.
Ah now, how is D'Arcy a good example? I'm gutted we never got to see him play (properly) till 2004. If someone doesn't have their head screwed on then leave them out but for anyone who does it makes no sense for them to delay their Irish career, especially for a back.

I'd certainly have preferred D'Arcy to have been a regular since 2000 and retired 2-3 years ago than what we got.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

binge90 wrote:Griffin is Darren Cave with pace.
I'm not fully up to date with your view on Cave. Is that a compliment? It is using my opinion of Cave anyway!
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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CM11 wrote:
DOB wrote:
dameshirleybassey wrote:
Mulleh wrote:After watching Henshaw going through the system he wasn't all that great before he got his first Connacht cap. Looked good at club level for his age but nobody thought he had this sort of potential.

He absolutely exploded onto the team and has become on of our most exciting prospects! It's nuts, he was playing for bucs this time last year
Ahem... He was actually playing schools rugby for the Marist this time last season. Hopefully he'll have an Ireland start by the end of June as the earlier they get into the team the better. BOD is proof of this.

The likes of Nagle should be overlooked at this stage imo. He has missed the boat through his own unwillingness to insist on game time, either at Munster or in the UK. Ireland need their locks to be able to complete with the likes of Joe Launchbury who is way ahead of Nagle and 4 years his junior.
But then D'Arcy would be an example of someone who was better off for having a couple of seasons not involved with Ireland.

There's no need for the IRFU or Ireland management to get involved with what Nagle is or isn't doing. That's for himself and his province, or whichever club he moves to next, to determine. If he doesn't make it into a first team somewhere, then maybe he just isn't good enough.
Ah now, how is D'Arcy a good example? I'm gutted we never got to see him play (properly) till 2004. If someone doesn't have their head screwed on then leave them out but for anyone who does it makes no sense for them to delay their Irish career, especially for a back.

I'd certainly have preferred D'Arcy to have been a regular since 2000 and retired 2-3 years ago than what we got.
Ok, maybe not D'Arcy. Or at least, maybe D'Arcy but for different reasons. But Hickie, Bowe, Shane Williams, to name 3 off the top of my head, are examples of players who had some time out in the cold away from the national team, worked on their game, and came back better players as a result. Heaslip and Wallace similarly weren't in the Ireland team and had to work their arses off to finally earn their spot (when injuries let them in). Whereas someone like O'Gara has been in the Ireland matchday squad for every game for 13 years and so never seen a need to improve some of the glaring flaws in his game.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Floppykid »

Cave's a great footballer and defender. He can marshal the Ulster backline excellently.
He lacks the pace and acceleration to be a real threat to the line at international level though.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

Floppykid wrote:Cave's a great footballer and defender. He can marshal the Ulster backline excellently.
He lacks the pace and acceleration to be a real threat to the line at international level though.
Meh. So does nearly anyone who's played midfield for Ireland this millenium. The most significant excpetion to that rule being Keet, who pretty much proves the need for picking the likes of Darren Cave in the Irish midfield.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by binge90 »

CM11 wrote:
binge90 wrote:Griffin is Darren Cave with pace.
I'm not fully up to date with your view on Cave. Is that a compliment? It is using my opinion of Cave anyway!
Yes it is. I rate Griffin very highly too, as you can glean from that.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Floppykid »

DOB wrote:
Floppykid wrote:Cave's a great footballer and defender. He can marshal the Ulster backline excellently.
He lacks the pace and acceleration to be a real threat to the line at international level though.
Meh. So does nearly anyone who's played midfield for Ireland this millenium. The most significant excpetion to that rule being Keet, who pretty much proves the need for picking the likes of Darren Cave in the Irish midfield.
I'd have him over Earls at 13 every day of the week, and I wouldn't mind seeing him get caps in the post BOD interim. I'm waiting on one of the new centres to really hit their straps though.
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DOB
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

Floppykid wrote:
DOB wrote:
Floppykid wrote:Cave's a great footballer and defender. He can marshal the Ulster backline excellently.
He lacks the pace and acceleration to be a real threat to the line at international level though.
Meh. So does nearly anyone who's played midfield for Ireland this millenium. The most significant excpetion to that rule being Keet, who pretty much proves the need for picking the likes of Darren Cave in the Irish midfield.
I'd have him over Earls at 13 every day of the week, and I wouldn't mind seeing him get caps in the post BOD interim. I'm waiting on one of the new centres to really hit their straps though.
Ditto.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Brumby_in_Vic »

Griffin looks very similar to a young Clyde Rathbone with his running style and being prone to injuries. O'Hallaron is being a bit of a crock too. Whenever I see him play he has pulled up with some injury.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by overthehillprop »

Willie won't be happy about the half backs taking up foreign games.

Image
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Boxcar Ira »

tazman77 wrote:
Brumby_in_Vic wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
Brumby_in_Vic wrote:There is depth coming through in the pack. Kilcoyne, R Strauss, Henderson, O'Mahony have been added to the pack then you have younger players coming through like O'Donnell, Jordi Murphy, McKeon, Nagle. The issue his tight head and lock depth but that will come when youngsters get time to develop. The talent is fine it's just the coaching is the biggest problem.
O'Donnell is almost 26. Youngster my arse. :lol:

Nagle aint a kid either. By the time Henderson is 24 I hope he is world class. Ferris was at that age.
26 is nothing for a backrower with little miles on the clock. Same goes for Nagle at lock, given the age that locks are retiring at these days.
Nagle is miles off......anywhere really.
Could follow a similar career path to Donncha Ryan. Arrive on the scene to a fanfare of hype. Spend early to mid 20's behind a mixture of international and journeyman locks before establishing himself as a quality player in his mid to late 20's.

Not ideal career path but better than completely wasted talent.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by earl the beaver »

Have to say I'm in the same camp as Willie wrt Griffin, never really seen him do much and a lot of hype seems based on hope and expectation more than he's actually offered in the pro game.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Boxcar Ira »

earl the beaver wrote:Have to say I'm in the same camp as Willie wrt Griffin, never really seen him do much and a lot of hype seems based on hope and expectation more than he's actually offered in the pro game.
In genuine shock here.
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earl the beaver
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by earl the beaver »

Ignore the rest why don't you
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Boxcar Ira »

earl the beaver wrote:Ignore the rest why don't you
It's probably best I do.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DiscoHips D'Arcy »

What age is Griffin? He is being talked up a bit but then I have seen him have great games at HEC (quins away last season). He has stalled a bit through injury and other factors IMO but then that will happen. Luke Marshall has a shocker season last year through injury and also McLaughlins insistence on playing Spence out of position at the start of the year, which looks foolish given marshalls progress with gametime.

Griffin is only about 24 though so there is plenty of time. I wouldn't be righting off TOD either at 25/26. Chris Henry is the perfect example of someone who can make a real name for themselves as a late bloomer.

Cave would be a good option if we want an interim 13 until the Henshaws/Farrells step up but given the way Zebo, Gilroy and Marshall have responded to being thrown in I wouldn't be averse to going with one of the younger options early.

Quick word on Healy, I think kidney and whoever was involved in the case played a blinder asking for clarification as to whether Healy could play for leinster the first week. By saying he couldn't the initial disciplinary panel really left themselves with no leg to stand on
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Boxcar Ira »

He'd be less than 24. Probably only 2 seasons beyond under 20???

Yeah he's had some really good games but stalled a bit this season it seems.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DiscoHips D'Arcy »

Boxcar Ira wrote:He'd be less than 24. Probably only 2 seasons beyond under 20???

Yeah he's had some really good games but stalled a bit this season it seems.
24 was a guess. Certainly wouldn't be more than that.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Boxcar Ira »

Just checked - 22. And a half.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Yer Man »

Boxcar Ira wrote:He'd be less than 24. Probably only 2 seasons beyond under 20???

Yeah he's had some really good games but stalled a bit this season it seems.
He's 25. Born October '87

edit, my bad. he's 22.

where the hell did I get that birth date from?
Last edited by Yer Man on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DOB
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

Cave would be a good option if we want an interim 13 until the Henshaws/Farrells step up but given the way Zebo, Gilroy and Marshall have responded to being thrown in I wouldn't be averse to going with one of the younger options early.
I like what ive seen of Griffin, he has some nice touches, but with his injuries I haven't actually seen all that much of him.

I'd like Henshaw to play 13 a bit for his province before we throw him in there for Ireland. Any chance we could see an Ireland backline one day with Zebo at 15, McFadden 14, Henshaw 13, and all playing 11, 12, 15 respectively for their provinces? (I realise McFadden's the least likely of the 3, but threw him in there to complete the set).
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by David Holwell »

No. There's no chance.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DiscoHips D'Arcy »

DOB wrote:
Cave would be a good option if we want an interim 13 until the Henshaws/Farrells step up but given the way Zebo, Gilroy and Marshall have responded to being thrown in I wouldn't be averse to going with one of the younger options early.
I like what ive seen of Griffin, he has some nice touches, but with his injuries I haven't actually seen all that much of him.

I'd like Henshaw to play 13 a bit for his province before we throw him in there for Ireland. Any chance we could see an Ireland backline one day with Zebo at 15, McFadden 14, Henshaw 13, and all playing 11, 12, 15 respectively for their provinces? (I realise McFadden's the least likely of the 3, but threw him in there to complete the set).
At 22 Griffin has plenty of time. Zebo to 15 is worth looking at and I would like to see either him or Henshaw in a position to put serious pressure on Kearney
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Hellraiser »

Griffin has had big problems with his hammys up until this season so it's not surprising people haven't seen much of him.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by camroc1 »

Who's the young back at Leinster great things are expected of ? Byrne ?
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DOB
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

Great things are expected of all of them, every time they don the blue tunic of affluence.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by anonymous_joe »

DOB wrote:Great things are expected of all of them, every time they don the blue tunic of affluence.
Amen, brother.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by redrebel »

DOB wrote:Great things are expected of all of them, every time they don the blue tunic of affluence.
Just not qualification to the knockout stages of the HEC. :blush:
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by anonymous_joe »

redrebel wrote:
DOB wrote:Great things are expected of all of them, every time they don the blue tunic of affluence.
Just not qualification to the knockout stages of the HEC. :blush:
An indulgent siesta of a season.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by SASP »

Just had a thought.

Domingo V Ross x(
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Al Davis »

camroc1 wrote:Who's the young back at Leinster great things are expected of ? Byrne ?
Adam Byrne, recently signed a academy deal. From the Youths/Section A Schools contingent (CBS Naas).
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Yer Man »

Whilst the bit at the top is hardly news (Ferris having another operation), there's a fair bit of interesting news on central / provincal contact developments...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 04884.html

Quick summary:
- Ferris out of Lions tour after ankle operation
- contract negotiations on a new deal on hold until post-op medical report is available
- Ferris still expected to be given a new central contract (!!!), despite number of contracts being trimmed from over 30 to under 20
- new criteria for central contract is that a player (when fit) must be guaranteed starter, provinces to cover the rest
- talks ongoing between Fitzgerald and Leinster
- Paddy Wallace out for 6 months, coming off central contract, seeking 1 year deal with Ulster
- Trimble coming off central contract, seeking 2 year deal with Ulster
- Leinster looking for NIQ out-half, which is good news for O'Gara because Munster would be blocked from making a similar signing and therefore be compelled to retain ROG (who has yet to sign a new deal with Munster)
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

Munster have Keatley and Hanrahan who are better 10s than O'Gara right now, and I'm sure I heard about another young lad knocking about their squad. They don't need Radge next season, no matter how many foreign 10s are signed wherever.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Yer Man wrote:Whilst the bit at the top is hardly news (Ferris having another operation), there's a fair bit of interesting news on central / provincal contact developments...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 04884.html

Quick summary:
- Ferris out of Lions tour after ankle operation
- contract negotiations on a new deal on hold until post-op medical report is available
- Ferris still expected to be given a new central contract (!!!), despite number of contracts being trimmed from over 30 to under 20
- new criteria for central contract is that a player (when fit) must be guaranteed starter, provinces to cover the rest
- talks ongoing between Fitzgerald and Leinster
- Paddy Wallace out for 6 months, coming off central contract, seeking 1 year deal with Ulster
- Trimble coming off central contract, seeking 2 year deal with Ulster
- Leinster looking for NIQ out-half, which is good news for O'Gara because Munster would be blocked from making a similar signing and therefore be compelled to retain ROG (who has yet to sign a new deal with Munster)
There is no way there should be 20 guaranteed starters at any one time. Certainly predicting 20 guaranteed starters 2 years down the line is impossible and ties the coaches hands too much.

Of the current team the only guaranteed starter I'd pick for 2 years time is SOB. Healy at a stretch. I'd make a stab at a few others but between age and form I wouldn't be able to say for sure they should be starting in 2015.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by camroc1 »

Yer Man wrote:Whilst the bit at the top is hardly news (Ferris having another operation), there's a fair bit of interesting news on central / provincal contact developments...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 04884.html

Quick summary:
- Ferris out of Lions tour after ankle operation
- contract negotiations on a new deal on hold until post-op medical report is available
- Ferris still expected to be given a new central contract (!!!), despite number of contracts being trimmed from over 30 to under 20
- new criteria for central contract is that a player (when fit) must be guaranteed starter, provinces to cover the rest
- talks ongoing between Fitzgerald and Leinster
- Paddy Wallace out for 6 months, coming off central contract, seeking 1 year deal with Ulster
- Trimble coming off central contract, seeking 2 year deal with Ulster
- Leinster looking for NIQ out-half, which is good news for O'Gara because Munster would be blocked from making a similar signing and therefore be compelled to retain ROG (who has yet to sign a new deal with Munster)
Leinster have reportedly been sniffing around Jimmy Gopperth.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

DOB wrote:Munster have Keatley and Hanrahan who are better 10s than O'Gara right now, and I'm sure I heard about another young lad knocking about their squad. They don't need Radge next season, no matter how many foreign 10s are signed wherever.
If ROG is retained it'll be a Munster contract and they won't be in any way forced to pick him so they may yet hold on to him for a year as 3rd choice.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by MunsterMan!!!!! »

DOB wrote:Munster have Keatley and Hanrahan who are better 10s than O'Gara right now, and I'm sure I heard about another young lad knocking about their squad. They don't need Radge next season, no matter how many foreign 10s are signed wherever.

Exactly, plus both given Madigan and Jackson's current standing, wont be involved to any great degree with the international set up, unless JJ rips it up in the very very near future.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Yer Man »

Oh, and someone a the times has developed a sense of humour recently...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/spo ... 04853.html

Deccie gets some consolatory messages on his answerphone...

“Declan, it’s Eddie O’Sullivan here, it’s been a while, but I just thought I’d let you know you have my full support after the disaster on Sunday. I’ve been on the receiving end a couple of times, well obviously not as bad as THAT, but . . . actually I don’t think I’ve ever had as bad a result as that, come to think of it, but you know, you can’t make an omelette in a cheese-grater.
“What I mean by that is you can’t make a toasted sandwich in a trouser-press, you know? But if I was in your shoes, (and maybe I should be) I’d just batten down the hatches, stand back and let the man see the rabbit, ’cause otherwise you won’t be able to see the woods from the trees.”

DK: “Holy God, what’s he on?”

Depressing match

Things were bad enough in Murrayfield at the end of the most depressing match involving Ireland, possibly since the loss to Argentina in the ’07 World Cup, or hang on, maybe the 60-0 in Hamilton was worse, although the defeat to England last year was a bit of a shambles, no wait, Wales in the 2011 World Cup took the biscuit . . . hmm, there have been a few come to think of it
As expected, the level of vitriol aimed at Kidney by the online brigade has been a tad disproportionate. He is not a member of al-Qaeda or the Anglo Five, as far as I’m aware. He might have taken the captaincy from the “chosen one” and given it to Jamie “Buzzin Man” Heaslip, but that’s not a criminal offence . . . yet.

And as for Wayne Barnes...

“If the indiscipline continues I may have to escalate”. You could see Brown with his large blood-stained hooter (it’s okay to play on while a river of claret gushes from an orifice now, apparently) trotting confusedly away, probably wondering whether he should feel chastised or flattered. “Escalate? What the f***’s he talking abute?”

We’ll have to endure another instalment of “Escalater” when he takes charge of Italy-Ireland in Rome on St Patrick’s weekend. The luck of the Irish, eh? Lucky there’s nothing riding on it.

As for France? Let’s hope against Ireland, Philippe Saint- Andre continues the policy of taking off all his best players and replacing them with all his worst players.
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