The Official Irish Rugby Thread

[DOB]

Murray has yet to approach competence in any of his outings for Ireland, and has mixed the pretty good with the downright awful for Munster this season.

[soyhmf]

There isn’t a hope of kidney dropping or rotating Heaslip. The last time he rested him against Scotland a few years back Heaslip went crying to the media and whinged for about two years. A couple of other Leinster players whinged about it too.
Looks like rotation is needed but only when a Leinster player benefits.

No munster fan can ever bring up whinging like a baby to the mejia after rog whinging his way into WC contention.

[SASP]

There isn’t a hope of kidney dropping or rotating Heaslip. The last time he rested him against Scotland a few years back Heaslip went crying to the media and whinged for about two years. A couple of other Leinster players whinged about it too.
Looks like rotation is needed but only when a Leinster player benefits.

Yeah sure. Cause players love being dropped. Like ROG took it well at the RWC didn't he?
Plus Heaslip said he felt he had something to prove when he came on in that game. If I remember correctly he collected a lineout at the tail, dropped it down to Stringer who made a great break and passed back to Heaslip who had followed and scored a match turning try.

I can't imagine ROG will still be whinging about it in two years time though. Or getting his mates do do the whinging for him!

Players need to understand that sometimes they will be rotated.

I think you are exaggerating Heaslips level of annoyance.

[Nolanator]

Oh FFS. The revisionism has started regarding Murray's performance. I don't get how people are making excuses to keep licking him.

He's seriously hamstringing the team and there's an alternative who's better than him there. Beggars belief.

Hopefully Murray can rise above the mediocrity.

That's all we've got to go on at the moment. Because it sure as hit isn't happening on the basis of form in Murray's case.

[binge90]

There isn’t a hope of kidney dropping or rotating Heaslip. The last time he rested him against Scotland a few years back Heaslip went crying to the media and whinged for about two years. A couple of other Leinster players whinged about it too.
Looks like rotation is needed but only when a Leinster player benefits.

Yeah sure. Cause players love being dropped. Like ROG took it well at the RWC didn't he?
Plus Heaslip said he felt he had something to prove when he came on in that game. If I remember correctly he collected a lineout at the tail, dropped it down to Stringer who made a great break and passed back to Heaslip who had followed and scored a match turning try.

I can't imagine ROG will still be whinging about it in two years time though. Or getting his mates do do the whinging for him!

Players need to understand that sometimes they will be rotated.

I think you are exaggerating Heaslips level of annoyance.

It's apurebellend. The most rabid of Munster trolls.

[camroc1]

Murray has yet to approach competence in any of his outings for Ireland, and has mixed the pretty good with the downright awful for Munster this season.

Very much this.

He is not, at the moment, anywhere near good enough.

[DOB]

Oh FFS. The revisionism has started regarding Murray's performance. I don't get how people are making excuses to keep licking him.

He's seriously hamstringing the team and there's an alternative who's better than him there. Beggars belief.

I don't get it either. And Reddan's actually from Munster. I mean, if Kearney was playing as ahit as Reddan, I'd want Felix Jones starting. I don't see what the problem is.

[harry 22]

And the alternatives to Healy were?

Tom Court was available and when picked at LH has been consistently better than Healy's worst days in the scrum.

Consider this, if any of the following three had turned out differently, we would have finished the 2010 6N with a triple crown.
a) Healy able to stop conceding penalties at the scrum
b) Best to throw the ball to a green jersey in the lineout
c) Sexton to kick his points.

However, picking Court would have been a desperately conservative selection and the time was invested in Healy because he was young with far higher potential that eventually got realised.

We know what Reddan brings to the table. He's had some good days for Ireland but mixed them with
woeful days. He's also going to be nearly 36 at the next world cup. Put it to you this way, Reddan is very unlikely to be a Lion next year but Murray might be. Gametime for Murray now is exactly what we should be doing and the ladyboys defended this policy when Healy was a beneficiary.

Cammy. It's not a troll. It's the truth.

defending Healy was due to the fact that we had poor scrummaging options. Court would have been a marginal upgrade at best in that dept. persevering with Healy was due to experience being vital to the development of a prop.

Murray is a scrum half, that is slow and ponderous at the breakdown. he will get better but there is no correlation to him developing a brain and playing game after game despite his form. His development will not be hindered by sitting for Ireland when he's not on form. he's getting plenty of experience playing scrum half with munster. In healys case he needed exposure against international scrummagers.

it's apples and oranges, so your point is sh!t

[CM11]

Reddan has been shit this season, utterly shit and has made a number of high profile brainfarts int he green jersey. He's safer on the bench as an 'impact' player.

As for Court, he's a great scrummager for Ulster and has handled many a fine TH this seaosn and battered them from LH. Some idiotic fans appear to be judging his ability solely from the TH side of the scrum and they are as I say IDIOTS.

and as for Healy being a good scrummager. PURLEASE. I'm just pleased he doesn't get his head shuffed up his arse nowadays in some matches.

Reddan has not been shit and certainly hasn't been 'utterly' shit. You're now becoming a parody of the parody of yourself you'd already become.

The thing about Reddan is that you know that he's capable of serious shitness at the drop of a hat.

I think it's time we accepted all our scrum halves are not great at this moment. Hopefully Murray can rise above the mediocrity.

Reddan hasn't been poor for well over a year now and has been at the heart of all our good performances in that period, whether it be from the bench or when starting.

Murray is a work in progress but I can't see how anyone can argue he's the better choice right now to get us playing as well as we can. Unfortunately he's playing in the most important position so he completely hampers our play.

[Massey Ferguson]

Oh FFS. The revisionism has started regarding Murray's performance. I don't get how people are making excuses to keep licking him.

He is dreamy.

[apurelegend]

Reddan has been shit this season, utterly shit and has made a number of high profile brainfarts int he green jersey. He's safer on the bench as an 'impact' player.

As for Court, he's a great scrummager for Ulster and has handled many a fine TH this seaosn and battered them from LH. Some idiotic fans appear to be judging his ability solely from the TH side of the scrum and they are as I say IDIOTS.

and as for Healy being a good scrummager. PURLEASE. I'm just pleased he doesn't get his head shuffed up his arse nowadays in some matches.

Reddan has not been shit and certainly hasn't been 'utterly' shit. You're now becoming a parody of the parody of yourself you'd already become.

The thing about Reddan is that you know that he's capable of serious shitness at the drop of a hat.

I think it's time we accepted all our scrum halves are not great at this moment. Hopefully Murray can rise above the mediocrity.

Reddan hasn't been poor for well over a year now and has been at the heart of all our good performances in that period, whether it be from the bench or when starting.

Murray is a work in progress but I can't see how anyone can argue he's the better choice right now to get us playing as well as we can. Unfortunately he's playing in the most important position so he completely hampers our play.

For clarification purposes I'm not arguing that Murray is any better. It's the usual thing with the scum halves on this bored.
When scrummies are on the bench their stock tends to rise in many people eyes. When an Irish player plays crap his bench replacement suddenly becomes world class. Like trimble for instance in the WC. By the end of the WC people were procaliming him as the next Campese. It's the same with Reddan. When he does get his start most people will realise again why he was on the bench in the first place and start calling for Murray to start.

[massivepr1ck]

Oh FFS. The revisionism has started regarding Murray's performance. I don't get how people are making excuses to keep licking him.

He's seriously hamstringing the team and there's an alternative who's better than him there. Beggars belief.

I don't get it either. And Reddan's actually from Munster. I mean, if Kearney was playing as ahit as Reddan, I'd want Felix Jones starting. I don't see what the problem is.

I was in CF for the ASM match last December and bumped into Don Reddan and Frank O'Driscoll (same hotel). Had a long chat about Kidney with Don Reddan. Seems he's had a personal problem with Jr. for years.

[CM11]

Reddan has been shit this season, utterly shit and has made a number of high profile brainfarts int he green jersey. He's safer on the bench as an 'impact' player.

As for Court, he's a great scrummager for Ulster and has handled many a fine TH this seaosn and battered them from LH. Some idiotic fans appear to be judging his ability solely from the TH side of the scrum and they are as I say IDIOTS.

and as for Healy being a good scrummager. PURLEASE. I'm just pleased he doesn't get his head shuffed up his arse nowadays in some matches.

Reddan has not been shit and certainly hasn't been 'utterly' shit. You're now becoming a parody of the parody of yourself you'd already become.

The thing about Reddan is that you know that he's capable of serious shitness at the drop of a hat.

I think it's time we accepted all our scrum halves are not great at this moment. Hopefully Murray can rise above the mediocrity.

Reddan hasn't been poor for well over a year now and has been at the heart of all our good performances in that period, whether it be from the bench or when starting.

Murray is a work in progress but I can't see how anyone can argue he's the better choice right now to get us playing as well as we can. Unfortunately he's playing in the most important position so he completely hampers our play.

For clarification purposes I'm not arguing that Murray is any better. It's the usual thing with the scum halves on this bored.
When scrummies are on the bench their stock tends to rise in many people eyes. When an Irish player plays crap his bench replacement suddenly becomes world class. Like trimble for instance in the WC. By the end of the WC people were procaliming him as the next Campese. It's the same with Reddan. When he does get his start most people will realise again why he was on the bench in the first place and start calling for Murray to start.

I don't get your logic. Last Jan everyone was saying Reddan. He eventually got his starts against Scotland and England (won't count Wales) and our play when was on the pitch was excellent. Indeed it was him going off against Scotland which led to the shaky finish which is probably why he stayed on for most of the English game. Fast forward to WC and he starts in another big win for Ireland while also playing well off the bench against Wales after Murray did the same thing he's done in all his starts. Fast forward again till last weekend and what you see is a pattern of Reddan being at the heart of all our good play for well over a year.

He wasn't great against South Africa with the obvious brainfart but got us playing very good attacking rugby against NZ. And that was when he was in poor form and most we're calling for him to be dropped. Since then he's ironed out all his major mistakes and doesn't make anywhere near the amount of errors that Murray does.

[Nolanator]

Oh FFS. The revisionism has started regarding Murray's performance. I don't get how people are making excuses to keep licking him.

He is dreamy.

As typos go, that one is quite unfortunate.

[apurelegend]

Scotland and England are useless though CM. Danthefan would do a job at scrum half against them, esepecially the way our forwards bossed England. I just reckon Reddan is a liability, but Murray aint much better/much worse.

I just think we need ROG back in........

[LeinsterLion]

Great, now this thread, one of the few threads making this place worthwhile anymore, is gone to shit, infested with mongs.

[Uncle Fester]

Great, now this thread, one of the few threads making this place worthwhile anymore, is gone to shit, infested with mongs.

Weren't you on my back for posting pretty much the same thing about a month ago?

[DOB]

He wasn't great against South Africa with the obvious brainfart but got us playing very good attacking rugby against NZ. And that was when he was in poor form and most we're calling for him to be dropped. Since then he's ironed out all his major mistakes and doesn't make anywhere near the amount of errors that Murray does.

Reddan's last brainfart for Ireland was in the South Africa game. D'Arcy was our best back in the subsequent NZ game.

But Reddan is too prone to brainfarts to play for Ireland. And D'Arcy has been kept in the team despite shite form for too long.


Something doesn't add up.

[apurelegend]

Great, now this thread, one of the few threads making this place worthwhile anymore, is gone to shit, infested with mongs.

Weren't you on my back for posting pretty much the same thing about a month ago?

He does it every few weeks.

[MunsterMan!!!!!]

So having not being on here in quiet sometime, and not read anything today I assume we are all happy and have a unite front against the frenchies?

[LeinsterLion]

Great, now this thread, one of the few threads making this place worthwhile anymore, is gone to shit, infested with mongs.

Weren't you on my back for posting pretty much the same thing about a month ago?

No, I was on your back for being one of the mongs. Instead of engaging you joined the idiots. There's even more dross now and, as I noted then, by just sinking to their level you are in fact part of the problem.

[Larry Murphy]

He wasn't great against South Africa with the obvious brainfart but got us playing very good attacking rugby against NZ. And that was when he was in poor form and most we're calling for him to be dropped. Since then he's ironed out all his major mistakes and doesn't make anywhere near the amount of errors that Murray does.

Lets clear something up - it was brainfarts. He threw the intercept for try number one and was badly duped for the Aplon try - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La3iYZFyzSg

I saw him come on against Montpellier a few weeks ago too and he was f**king hopeless, so it's not as if he was screaming to be picked prior to the 6N. That said, thought he deserved a start after his performance the last day.

[Uncle Fester]

Great, now this thread, one of the few threads making this place worthwhile anymore, is gone to shit, infested with mongs.

Weren't you on my back for posting pretty much the same thing about a month ago?

No, I was on your back for being one of the mongs. Instead of engaging you joined the idiots. There's even more dross now and, as I noted then, by just sinking to their level you are in fact part of the problem.

Out of curiosity, does not agreeing with you = being a mong?
I can't say I've ever noticed you managing to disagree amicably with folks on PR.

[LeinsterLion]

Great, now this thread, one of the few threads making this place worthwhile anymore, is gone to shit, infested with mongs.

Weren't you on my back for posting pretty much the same thing about a month ago?

No, I was on your back for being one of the mongs. Instead of engaging you joined the idiots. There's even more dross now and, as I noted then, by just sinking to their level you are in fact part of the problem.

Out of curiosity, does not agreeing with you = being a mong?
I can't say I've ever noticed you managing to disagree amicably with folks on PR.

On the first point, of course not. On the second, I can only assume you are mixing me up with someone else or paying little attention to me - neither is my issue nor does either bother me but there you go.

[TheBouncer]

Let's not kid ourselves... Reddan has served up some almighty dross very recently, Treviso, Cardiff, Glasgow and Montpellier all spring to mind...

I think I would have picked him for Saturday but the man is inconsistency personified....

[danthefan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTlHH3oA8O8

David Wallace only made like 2m carrying in that clip. He's shit.

[danthefan]

Oh FFS. The revisionism has started regarding Murray's performance. I don't get how people are making excuses to keep licking him.

He's seriously hamstringing the team and there's an alternative who's better than him there. Beggars belief.

Hopefully Murray can rise above the mediocrity.

That's all we've got to go on at the moment. Because it sure as hit isn't happening on the basis of form in Murray's case.

It began the second the final whistle blew. And now we have fuckwits talking about Healy's scrummaging back in 2010 as if it's somehow relevant.

[camroc1]

Let's not kid ourselves... Reddan has served up some almighty dross very recently, Treviso, Cardiff, Glasgow and Montpellier all spring to mind...

I think I would have picked him for Saturday but the man is inconsistency personified....

There is a lot of revisionism going on here. They are all matches Leinster won, some home, some away.

Reddan didn't start against Montpelier or Treviso.

[Uncle Fester]

If Schmidt won't pick Reddan to start away games, why should Kidney.

[LeinsterLion]

Let's not kid ourselves... Reddan has served up some almighty dross very recently, Treviso, Cardiff, Glasgow and Montpellier all spring to mind...

I think I would have picked him for Saturday but the man is inconsistency personified....

As has been pointed out repeatedly, no one is claiming Reddan is perfect or the answer to all our problems, merely the better option. Has been for some considerable time and been very badly treated imo. Flawed player though? Certainly.

[TheBouncer]

Let's not kid ourselves... Reddan has served up some almighty dross very recently, Treviso, Cardiff, Glasgow and Montpellier all spring to mind...

I think I would have picked him for Saturday but the man is inconsistency personified....

There is a lot of revisionism going on here. They are all matches Leinster won, some home, some away.

Reddan didn't start against Montpelier or Treviso.

He did start against Treviso..

Are you arguing that he played well in those games or not...?...

[binge90]

If McGahan won't pick DOC to start a HEC game, why should Kidney?

[TheBouncer]

Let's not kid ourselves... Reddan has served up some almighty dross very recently, Treviso, Cardiff, Glasgow and Montpellier all spring to mind...

I think I would have picked him for Saturday but the man is inconsistency personified....

As has been pointed out repeatedly, no one is claiming Reddan is perfect or the answer to all our problems, merely the better option. Has been for some considerable time and been very badly treated imo. Flawed player though? Certainly.

I reckon I would've started him...

We have to start rewarding form... It's frightening how little progression we see these days...

[danthefan]

If McGahan won't pick DOC to start a HEC game, why should Kidney?

Or Buckle or MOD or Stringer or Hayes in years past.

[camroc1]

If Schmidt won't pick Reddan to start away games, why should Kidney.

One of the games was a home game Fester; it's a combination of Leinster player rotation, and IRFU player management. Part of the reason we are 11 points clear in Por 12, and have a home qurter in the HEC.

[TheBouncer]

If McGahan won't pick DOC to start a HEC game, why should Kidney?

Or Buckle or MOD or Stringer or Hayes in years past.

Not even the DOC over Ryan comes close to Hayes being picked against Samoa a couple of years back....

That was a truly remarkable decision...

[camroc1]

Let's not kid ourselves... Reddan has served up some almighty dross very recently, Treviso, Cardiff, Glasgow and Montpellier all spring to mind...

I think I would have picked him for Saturday but the man is inconsistency personified....

There is a lot of revisionism going on here. They are all matches Leinster won, some home, some away.

Reddan didn't start against Montpelier or Treviso.

He did start against Treviso..

Are you arguing that he played well in those games or not...?...

The teams in the last Leinster -Treviso match. Leinster won 42 - 8.

LEINSTER SCORERS: I. Nacewa (1 try, 3 conversions and 3 penalties). I. Madigan (1 try and 1 conversion), R. Strauss (1 try), J. Cooney (1 try), F. Carr (1 try)

BENETTON TREVISO SCORERS: M. Muccignat (1 try), A. di Bernardo (1 drop goal)

LEINSTER:

15: Isa Nacewa (Fionn Carr, 75)
14: Darren Hudson
13: Brendan Macken
12: Colm O'Shea (Noel Reid, 68)
11: Fionn Carr (David Kearney, 64)
10: Ian Madigan
9: Isaac Boss (John Cooney, 70)

1: Heinke van der Merwe (Jack McGrath, 65)
2: Richardt Strauss (Tom Sexton, 70)
3: Nathan White (Jamie Hagan, 56)
4: Damian Browne (Mark Flanagan, 65)
5: Devin Toner
6: Kevin McLaughlin CAPTAIN
7: Shane Jennings
8: Leo Auva'a (Rhys Ruddock, 56)

BENETTON TREVISO: L Nitoglia; B de Jager, E Galon, A Pratichetti, B Williams; A di Bernardo, A Chillon; M Muccignat, E Ceccato, I Fernandez Rouyet, F Minto, V Bernabò CAPTAIN, G Padrò, B Vermaak, M Filippucci.

REPLACEMENTS: D Vidal, C Fazzari, P di Santo, M Fuser, E Pavanello, S Picone, G Garcia, T Iannone.

[TheBouncer]

Let's not kid ourselves... Reddan has served up some almighty dross very recently, Treviso, Cardiff, Glasgow and Montpellier all spring to mind...

I think I would have picked him for Saturday but the man is inconsistency personified....

There is a lot of revisionism going on here. They are all matches Leinster won, some home, some away.

Reddan didn't start against Montpelier or Treviso.

He did start against Treviso..

Are you arguing that he played well in those games or not...?...

The teams in the last Leinster -Treviso match. Leinster won 42 - 8.

LEINSTER SCORERS: I. Nacewa (1 try, 3 conversions and 3 penalties). I. Madigan (1 try and 1 conversion), R. Strauss (1 try), J. Cooney (1 try), F. Carr (1 try)

BENETTON TREVISO SCORERS: M. Muccignat (1 try), A. di Bernardo (1 drop goal)

LEINSTER:

15: Isa Nacewa (Fionn Carr, 75)
14: Darren Hudson
13: Brendan Macken
12: Colm O'Shea (Noel Reid, 68)
11: Fionn Carr (David Kearney, 64)
10: Ian Madigan
9: Isaac Boss (John Cooney, 70)

1: Heinke van der Merwe (Jack McGrath, 65)
2: Richardt Strauss (Tom Sexton, 70)
3: Nathan White (Jamie Hagan, 56)
4: Damian Browne (Mark Flanagan, 65)
5: Devin Toner
6: Kevin McLaughlin CAPTAIN
7: Shane Jennings
8: Leo Auva'a (Rhys Ruddock, 56)

BENETTON TREVISO: L Nitoglia; B de Jager, E Galon, A Pratichetti, B Williams; A di Bernardo, A Chillon; M Muccignat, E Ceccato, I Fernandez Rouyet, F Minto, V Bernabò CAPTAIN, G Padrò, B Vermaak, M Filippucci.

REPLACEMENTS: D Vidal, C Fazzari, P di Santo, M Fuser, E Pavanello, S Picone, G Garcia, T Iannone.

Sorry, I'm talking about the away game....

BENETTON TREVISO SCORERS: M. Vosawai (1 try), T. Botes (5 penalties)

LEINSTER SCORERS: L. Auva'a (1 try), F. Carr (1 try), E. O'Malley (1 try), F. McFadden (3 conversions, 3 penalties)

BENETTON TREVISO: L McLean; B de Jager, T Benvenuti, A Sgarbi, B Williams; K Burton, T Botes; M Rizzo, E Ceccato, L Cittadini, A Pavanello CAPTAIN, V Bernabò, P Derbyshire, A Zanni, R Barbieri.

REPLACEMENTS: F Sbaraglini, M Muccignat, I Fernandez Rouyet, B Vermaak, M Vosawai, F Minto, F Semenzato, A di Bernardo.

LEINSTER:

15: Luke Fitzgerald
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Eoin O'Malley
12: Gordon D'Arcy (Brendan Macken, 73)
11: Fionn Carr
10: Ian Madigan
9: Eoin Reddan (Isaac Boss, 64)

1: Cian Healy (Jack McGrath, 73)
2: Sean Cronin
3: Jamie Hagan (Nathan White, 62)
4: Damian Browne (Kevin McLaughlin, 64)
5: Devin Toner
6: Rhys Ruddock
7: Shane Jennings CAPTAIN
8: Leo Auva'a (Jamie Heaslip, 50)

REPLACEMENTS NOT USED: Aaron Dundon, Noel Reid.

[Uncle Fester]

Let's not kid ourselves... Reddan has served up some almighty dross very recently, Treviso, Cardiff, Glasgow and Montpellier all spring to mind...

I think I would have picked him for Saturday but the man is inconsistency personified....

As has been pointed out repeatedly, no one is claiming Reddan is perfect or the answer to all our problems, merely the better option. Has been for some considerable time and been very badly treated imo. Flawed player though? Certainly.

To be frank, I wouldn't have been too bothered if he was picked to start as I think we should be rotating players anyway (other than the likes of BOD & POC obviously) but it was interesting that only one of the pundits on Against The Head (Quinlan) preferred Reddan to start.

Lino
My point to you is that people are completely losing the plot over what are two somewhat marginal calls. Some are openly wanting Ireland to get beaten because they don't like the coach (and never have). At this stage, there's no one left to engage with bar trolls and crying girls screaming that we're doomed.

[Uncle Fester]

If McGahan won't pick DOC to start a HEC game, why should Kidney?

I'm baffled by that one to be honest but one possible explanation is that Ryan offers impact from the bench while DOC wouldn't really.