The Official Irish Rugby Thread

[SASP]

Demented mole talking about Brad Thorn and Leinsters other locks.

http://dementedmole.com/2012/03/07/brad ... -leinster/

Another good blog. I remember comparing Toners age and starts to Nagles when the usual Munsterites were blowing smoke up Nagles hole last year.

And do you remember who Nagle is up against compared to Toner?
I'm really going to piss you off now,I know for a fact Toner was due to be called in to the Irish squad for the next 2 games( as a tackle bag holder), until PoC got injuried and Kidney had to change tack.

If Munster think so much of him he should have more games by now.

You're preaching to the converted here.

Then maybe they dont think that much of him?

[Nolanator]

Hold on, are we now saying that Toner should be in the Ireland team or something?
That's just stupid.

He's been going well this year and seems to be kicking on, but he's not going to add much to the national team at the moment.

[Mr. Very Popular]

Demented mole talking about Brad Thorn and Leinsters other locks.

http://dementedmole.com/2012/03/07/brad ... -leinster/

Another good blog. I remember comparing Toners age and starts to Nagles when the usual Munsterites were blowing smoke up Nagles hole last year.

And do you remember who Nagle is up against compared to Toner?
I'm really going to piss you off now,I know for a fact Toner was due to be called in to the Irish squad for the next 2 games( as a tackle bag holder), until PoC got injuried and Kidney had to change tack.

And Toner ?

He's been up against O'Kelly, Cullen, Hines and others since his first Leinster cap (age 19) in 2006.

Your point ?

Regarding Ireland, I await the post Kidney days when players will be selected on talent alone

My point-Nagle had 4 irish internationals in front of him all the time,4 players that the higher management would have been demanding gametime.
Toner had MoK as he began his decline,Hines is gone and Cullen is hardly in the same league as Munsters 2 starters,so that's really a position of 3 any year for 2 starting berths and 1 sub spot,compare it to 5 fighting it out in Munster.If Toner was with Munster he'd be in the exact same position as Nagle.

[Despot]

Hold on, are we now saying that Toner should be in the Ireland team or something?
That's just stupid.

He's been going well this year and seems to be kicking on, but he's not going to add much to the national team at the moment.

Yep, and in a few weeks time he will be holding the tackle bags for Brad and Leo.

[Nolanator]

If Toner was with Munster he'd be in the exact same position as Nagle.

I disagree. He'd certainly have fewer caps, but Cheika to a certain extent and Schmidt in a big way weren't afraid to use the younger guys so he wouldn't be in the same position as Nagle. He'd still have more appearances.
There's no doubting that having POC, DOC and MOD at their peaks is going to hinder a younger lock coming through, but Munster under Kidney in particular have shown a real aversion to trying guys out as much. I know there were plenty of league games with TOL on the wing and that Kiwi at OH etc, but they were space fillers, not selections with long term views in mind.

[Despot]

If Toner was with Munster he'd be in the exact same position as Nagle.

I disagree. He'd certainly have fewer caps, but Cheika to a certain extent and Schmidt in a big way weren't afraid to use the younger guys so he wouldn't be in the same position as Nagle. He'd still have more appearances.
There's no doubting that having POC, DOC and MOD at their peaks is going to hinder a younger lock coming through, but Munster under Kidney in particular have shown a real aversion to trying guys out as much. I know there were plenty of league games with TOL on the wing and that Kiwi at OH etc, but they were space fillers, not selections with long term views in mind.

Not sure that Murray, O'Dea, Foley, Holland, Earls,Coughlan (given chance despite age), O'Mahony and a few more would agree. It's one of the perceptions that is regularly trotted but net necessarilly true. But like Leinstter when the big games are there the tried and tested are used. eg for DOC/POC read BOD/D'Arcy. For all the young talent in Leinster when push comes to shove all the coaches have gone with the established pair.

In truth the provinces have done a good job with the talent available, it's just the vast majority of that talent is not quite good enough to make the final last step, or justify the risk in a tight competitive schedule, to international level.

[grimoald]

If Toner was with Munster he'd be in the exact same position as Nagle.

I disagree. He'd certainly have fewer caps, but Cheika to a certain extent and Schmidt in a big way weren't afraid to use the younger guys so he wouldn't be in the same position as Nagle. He'd still have more appearances.

Toner would have more appearances as he's 3 development years older. Where he from Munster he'd be 4th/5th choice but probably would have moved.

The fact is, Nagle is playing behind 3 current internationals and another guy who is the 'midweek' captain. Toner only ever had 2 internationals in front of him (MOK and Hines' Leinster careers didn't overlap) and was competing with the likes of Hogan and Jowitt for gametime. He was forced to play early because you had no depth in the position.

That doesn't mean most Munster fans are happy with the way Nagle has been treated though. Most would have had him playing every game ahead of MOD this season (and are pissed to fudge when Holland has been played ahead of him). Dave Foley is slightly different as he's had a couple of bad injuries, one kept him out most of last.

[massivepr1ck]

Hold on, are we now saying that Toner should be in the Ireland team or something?
That's just stupid.

He's been going well this year and seems to be kicking on, but he's not going to add much to the national team at the moment.

Nah he shouldnt be in the Ireland team. Although a Tuohy Ryan team with Toner on the bench would be an option, meaning that when ROG comes on we could play territory and attack lineouts. He is in great form this season in.fairness to him.

Someone suggesting that they have "insider knowledge" that Toner was going to be called into Carton House but then wasn't is a bit embarrassing if he's been there all along... And I'm pretty sure he has hasn't he? Would Thornley, who was at camp, predict someone who isn't there would be in the team?

[danthefan]

Toner had had the Leinster captain ahead of him too.

[SASP]

If Toner was with Munster he'd be in the exact same position as Nagle.

I disagree. He'd certainly have fewer caps, but Cheika to a certain extent and Schmidt in a big way weren't afraid to use the younger guys so he wouldn't be in the same position as Nagle. He'd still have more appearances.
There's no doubting that having POC, DOC and MOD at their peaks is going to hinder a younger lock coming through, but Munster under Kidney in particular have shown a real aversion to trying guys out as much. I know there were plenty of league games with TOL on the wing and that Kiwi at OH etc, but they were space fillers, not selections with long term views in mind.

Not sure that Murray, O'Dea, Foley, Holland, Earls,Coughlan (given chance despite age), O'Mahony and a few more would agree. It's one of the perceptions that is regularly trotted but net necessarilly true. But like Leinstter when the big games are there the tried and tested are used. eg for DOC/POC read BOD/D'Arcy. For all the young talent in Leinster when push comes to shove all the coaches have gone with the established pair.

In truth the provinces have done a good job with the talent available, it's just the vast majority of that talent is not quite good enough to make the final last step, or justify the risk in a tight competitive schedule, to international level.

Foley is only one year younger than Toner and has 7 pro appearances to Toners 89.

Edit. Was wrong. Foley is just shy of 2 years younger than Toner.
Carry on

[Mr. Very Popular]

If Toner was with Munster he'd be in the exact same position as Nagle.

I disagree. He'd certainly have fewer caps, but Cheika to a certain extent and Schmidt in a big way weren't afraid to use the younger guys so he wouldn't be in the same position as Nagle. He'd still have more appearances.
There's no doubting that having POC, DOC and MOD at their peaks is going to hinder a younger lock coming through, but Munster under Kidney in particular have shown a real aversion to trying guys out as much. I know there were plenty of league games with TOL on the wing and that Kiwi at OH etc, but they were space fillers, not selections with long term views in mind.

Problem there Nolan,Cheika and Joe were never Munster coaches,that's why I said if Toner was at Munster he'd have the same issue as Nagle.

[SASP]

On a lighter note.

Who thinks this must be high up in the list of ugliest front row in test history?



It could also be this.


Maybe I should start a thread

[anonymous_joe]

f**king love that Irish jersey.

[Mr. Very Popular]

On a lighter note.

Who thinks this must be high up in the list of ugliest front row in test history?



It could also be this.


Maybe I should start a thread

How dare you,3 fine limerick men in their prime,Gods,so they were....

[Conn]

On a lighter note.

Who thinks this must be high up in the list of ugliest front row in test history?



It could also be this.


Maybe I should start a thread

How dare you,3 fine limerick men in their prime,Gods,so they were....

Wood is from clare, isn't he?

[Hellraiser]

VP, Fester is from Killaloe.

[Mr. Very Popular]

VP, Fester is from Killaloe.

fudge that shit,born in limerick,schooled in limerick,learnt his rugby in limerick,got his first ride in limerick*,had business in Limerick.

He's one clare man we'll claim.




*this may or may not be true.

[Nolanator]

If Toner was with Munster he'd be in the exact same position as Nagle.

I disagree. He'd certainly have fewer caps, but Cheika to a certain extent and Schmidt in a big way weren't afraid to use the younger guys so he wouldn't be in the same position as Nagle. He'd still have more appearances.
There's no doubting that having POC, DOC and MOD at their peaks is going to hinder a younger lock coming through, but Munster under Kidney in particular have shown a real aversion to trying guys out as much. I know there were plenty of league games with TOL on the wing and that Kiwi at OH etc, but they were space fillers, not selections with long term views in mind.

Not sure that Murray, O'Dea, Foley, Holland, Earls,Coughlan (given chance despite age), O'Mahony and a few more would agree. It's one of the perceptions that is regularly trotted but net necessarilly true. But like Leinstter when the big games are there the tried and tested are used. eg for DOC/POC read BOD/D'Arcy. For all the young talent in Leinster when push comes to shove all the coaches have gone with the established pair.

In truth the provinces have done a good job with the talent available, it's just the vast majority of that talent is not quite good enough to make the final last step, or justify the risk in a tight competitive schedule, to international level.

Were these guys around when Kidney was selecting the Munster teams?
McGahan has brought in some new blood through necessity as the team was old. Kidney never did as much as McGahan as he had a load of players in their prime and never looked to build beyond them.

[Despot]

If Toner was with Munster he'd be in the exact same position as Nagle.

I disagree. He'd certainly have fewer caps, but Cheika to a certain extent and Schmidt in a big way weren't afraid to use the younger guys so he wouldn't be in the same position as Nagle. He'd still have more appearances.
There's no doubting that having POC, DOC and MOD at their peaks is going to hinder a younger lock coming through, but Munster under Kidney in particular have shown a real aversion to trying guys out as much. I know there were plenty of league games with TOL on the wing and that Kiwi at OH etc, but they were space fillers, not selections with long term views in mind.

Not sure that Murray, O'Dea, Foley, Holland, Earls,Coughlan (given chance despite age), O'Mahony and a few more would agree. It's one of the perceptions that is regularly trotted but net necessarilly true. But like Leinstter when the big games are there the tried and tested are used. eg for DOC/POC read BOD/D'Arcy. For all the young talent in Leinster when push comes to shove all the coaches have gone with the established pair.

In truth the provinces have done a good job with the talent available, it's just the vast majority of that talent is not quite good enough to make the final last step, or justify the risk in a tight competitive schedule, to international level.

Were these guys around when Kidney was selecting the Munster teams?
McGahan has brought in some new blood through necessity as the team was old. Kidney never did as much as McGahan as he had a load of players in their prime and never looked to build beyond them.

There were others brought in- two for example were TOL and Donnacha Ryan. My point is, and you help make it, is that there was an established team and it was very hard for anyone to break in- ask D Ryan- because the standard was v high. While there were some players that made it into the munster team when the internationals were away few if any were good enough to make the breakthrough. You got to recognise how high the bar is set, back in Munster then and in Leinster now. Very few will make it into the HEC squads, and fewer still onto international teams. That doesnt mean youth hasnt been given it's chance it has but it hasnt always lived up to expectations.
There is no doubt that Munster were slower in getting the academy up to speed and that is a black mark against their original set up.

[Mr. Very Popular]

If Toner was with Munster he'd be in the exact same position as Nagle.

I disagree. He'd certainly have fewer caps, but Cheika to a certain extent and Schmidt in a big way weren't afraid to use the younger guys so he wouldn't be in the same position as Nagle. He'd still have more appearances.
There's no doubting that having POC, DOC and MOD at their peaks is going to hinder a younger lock coming through, but Munster under Kidney in particular have shown a real aversion to trying guys out as much. I know there were plenty of league games with TOL on the wing and that Kiwi at OH etc, but they were space fillers, not selections with long term views in mind.

Not sure that Murray, O'Dea, Foley, Holland, Earls,Coughlan (given chance despite age), O'Mahony and a few more would agree. It's one of the perceptions that is regularly trotted but net necessarilly true. But like Leinstter when the big games are there the tried and tested are used. eg for DOC/POC read BOD/D'Arcy. For all the young talent in Leinster when push comes to shove all the coaches have gone with the established pair.

In truth the provinces have done a good job with the talent available, it's just the vast majority of that talent is not quite good enough to make the final last step, or justify the risk in a tight competitive schedule, to international level.

Were these guys around when Kidney was selecting the Munster teams?
McGahan has brought in some new blood through necessity as the team was old. Kidney never did as much as McGahan as he had a load of players in their prime and never looked to build beyond them.

Bullshit,McGahan inherited a team in its prime,built by Kidney,Kidney put a lot of work into the guys that ended up winning to HEC's and providing the guts of the pack that won the GS.
It's an absolute myth that Kidney didnt bring any players through.

[Armchair_Superstar]

To be fair to Munster, they have brought through some decent young players (and decent old players) in the past couple of seasons. They have had a bit of a lag in backs coming through the Academy and Holland has had problems with the backs, but they are giving youth a chance. I've no problem with any of the Munster youngsters that Kidney has brought into the squad, it is good to see youth being brought in.

I can understand the loyalty that the Munster fans have to Kidney, but some of them need to open their eyes and take a look at what he has achieved over the past couple of seasons. Some of the excuses being made for Kidney just don't stack up.

Foremost amongst these is that we just don't have the players, or that the fringe players don't have what it takes to step up to Test level. It is frustrating to hear this, when the incumbents are performing poorly on a consistent basis, and alternatives still aren't being explored.

This brings us along to the next excuse - "now is not the time to experiment". Lets face it, there isn't a good time to experiment at Test level. Also, it is incredibly frustrating to go through a 6 Nations campaign where you clearly have issues at lock and centre, and do nothing about either issue, whilst at the same time experimenting at scrum-half where you have a competent incumbent. When you end up with no chance of winning the tournament after 3 games, you've got to accept that you've missed a chance to improve the age profile of the side and experiment with new options.

[Hellraiser]

To be fair to Munster, they have brought through some decent young players (and decent old players) in the past couple of seasons. They have had a bit of a lag in backs coming through the Academy and Holland has had problems with the backs, but they are giving youth a chance. I've no problem with any of the Munster youngsters that Kidney has brought into the squad, it is good to see youth being brought in.

I can understand the loyalty that the Munster fans have to Kidney, but some of them need to open their eyes and take a look at what he has achieved over the past couple of seasons. Some of the excuses being made for Kidney just don't stack up.

Foremost amongst these is that we just don't have the players, or that the fringe players don't have what it takes to step up to Test level. It is frustrating to hear this, when the incumbents are performing poorly on a consistent basis, and alternatives still aren't being explored.

This brings us along to the next excuse - "now is not the time to experiment". Lets face it, there isn't a good time to experiment at Test level. Also, it is incredibly frustrating to go through a 6 Nations campaign where you clearly have issues at lock and centre, and do nothing about either issue, whilst at the same time experimenting at scrum-half where you have a competent incumbent. When you end up with no chance of winning the tournament after 3 games, you've got to accept that you've missed a chance to improve the age profile of the side and experiment with new options.

Which Munster supporters have been content that there has been no experimentation bar that forced by injury? I certainly am not and for several months I've said DOC shouldn't be in the squad let alone starting. Kidney is a conservative coach no doubt which plays it's part but I honestly don't think any Irish coach will ever be given the licence to experiment "in competition". There is a very firmly rooted idea that that is what Summer tours and AIs are for (and even in the latter not the big games). The last time an Irish coach experimented in a 6Ns match was over a decade ago and it was motivated as a desperate gamble to save his job that just happened to pay off. All that said I think the current coaching ticket has run it's course and new one should be brought in.

[LeinsterLion]

To be fair to Munster, they have brought through some decent young players (and decent old players) in the past couple of seasons. They have had a bit of a lag in backs coming through the Academy and Holland has had problems with the backs, but they are giving youth a chance. I've no problem with any of the Munster youngsters that Kidney has brought into the squad, it is good to see youth being brought in.

I can understand the loyalty that the Munster fans have to Kidney, but some of them need to open their eyes and take a look at what he has achieved over the past couple of seasons. Some of the excuses being made for Kidney just don't stack up.

Foremost amongst these is that we just don't have the players, or that the fringe players don't have what it takes to step up to Test level. It is frustrating to hear this, when the incumbents are performing poorly on a consistent basis, and alternatives still aren't being explored.

This brings us along to the next excuse - "now is not the time to experiment". Lets face it, there isn't a good time to experiment at Test level. Also, it is incredibly frustrating to go through a 6 Nations campaign where you clearly have issues at lock and centre, and do nothing about either issue, whilst at the same time experimenting at scrum-half where you have a competent incumbent. When you end up with no chance of winning the tournament after 3 games, you've got to accept that you've missed a chance to improve the age profile of the side and experiment with new options.

Which Munster supporters have been content that there has been no experimentation bar that forced by injury? I certainly am not and for several months I've said DOC shouldn't be in the squad let alone starting. Kidney is a conservative coach no doubt which plays it's part but I honestly don't think any Irish coach will ever be given the licence to experiment "in competition". There is a very firmly rooted idea that that is what Summer tours and AIs are for (and even in the latter not the big games). The last time an Irish coach experimented in a 6Ns match was over a decade ago and it was motivated as a desperate gamble to save his job that just happened to pay off. All that said I think the current coaching ticket has run it's course and new one should be brought in.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - playing form players, using the squad, encouraging competition and promoting youth is NOT experimentation. And this notion that the coach isn't "allowed" to do anything other than pick a conservative side is baseless nonsense.

[Armchair_Superstar]

To be fair to Munster, they have brought through some decent young players (and decent old players) in the past couple of seasons. They have had a bit of a lag in backs coming through the Academy and Holland has had problems with the backs, but they are giving youth a chance. I've no problem with any of the Munster youngsters that Kidney has brought into the squad, it is good to see youth being brought in.

I can understand the loyalty that the Munster fans have to Kidney, but some of them need to open their eyes and take a look at what he has achieved over the past couple of seasons. Some of the excuses being made for Kidney just don't stack up.

Foremost amongst these is that we just don't have the players, or that the fringe players don't have what it takes to step up to Test level. It is frustrating to hear this, when the incumbents are performing poorly on a consistent basis, and alternatives still aren't being explored.

This brings us along to the next excuse - "now is not the time to experiment". Lets face it, there isn't a good time to experiment at Test level. Also, it is incredibly frustrating to go through a 6 Nations campaign where you clearly have issues at lock and centre, and do nothing about either issue, whilst at the same time experimenting at scrum-half where you have a competent incumbent. When you end up with no chance of winning the tournament after 3 games, you've got to accept that you've missed a chance to improve the age profile of the side and experiment with new options.

Which Munster supporters have been content that there has been no experimentation bar that forced by injury? I certainly am not and for several months I've said DOC shouldn't be in the squad let alone starting. Kidney is a conservative coach no doubt which plays it's part but I honestly don't think any Irish coach will ever be given the licence to experiment "in competition". There is a very firmly rooted idea that that is what Summer tours and AIs are for (and even in the latter not the big games). The last time an Irish coach experimented in a 6Ns match was over a decade ago and it was motivated as a desperate gamble to save his job that just happened to pay off. All that said I think the current coaching ticket has run it's course and new one should be brought in.

I don't think anyone is actually content with the situation, although it is obviously easier for the Munster lads to stomach the selections because you have some promising youngsters getting the starts. What I am getting at is that there is an element of blame-shifting going on. Even in your post, you mention a "license to experiment". It shouldn't take a license to experiment to realise that DOC is giving you 8 tackles a game these days, and put him out to pasture because Ryan or Tuohy will probably give you 20-plus. Similarly, it wouldn't have required a license to experiment to acknowledge that D'Arcy is past it, and start to explore options. Given that the job description for our 12 is completely unchanged from 3 or 4 seasons ago, McFadden or one of the other kids could have been brought in last season and instructed to make his tackles and get the ball over the gainline. Not a big experiment.

Kidney has backed himself into a corner with the pace of change in the squad. When he has had everybody fit, he has played the old hands to chase results. Now he is in a very awkward situation because he failed to change from a position of strength last season, and he has lost his two key players. Eventually Kidney is going to have to carry the can for the fact that he hasn't delivered either in terms of win rate or in terms of developing the squad.

[grimoald]

Toner had had the Leinster captain ahead of him too.

Which is why when Cullen is back, Toner will likely be out of the team with Leo and Thorn starting. I think Cullen is miles past it and would start Toner ahead of him now, but I don't think it will happen.

[SASP]

Toner had had the Leinster captain ahead of him too.

Which is why when Cullen is back, Toner will likely be out of the team with Leo and Thorn starting. I think Cullen is miles past it and would start Toner ahead of him now, but I don't think it will happen.

We'll see on March 23rd I think. Leinsters next match. I think it is possible Toner will get rewarded for his efforts this season and will be picked with Thorn for that game.

[Mr. Very Popular]

Wally back
Nagle on the bech as well


Munster: F Jones, D Hurley, S Tokula, L Mafi, S Zebo; S Deasy, D Williams; W du Preez, M Sherry, S Archer; B Holland, M O'Driscoll capt; Dave O'Callaghan, T O'Donnell, P Butler. Replacements: D Fogarty, M Horan, BJ Botha, I Nagle, D Wallace, C Sheridan, I Keatley, L O'Dea.

[SASP]

Good to see Wally back.

[ellebelle]

Toner had had the Leinster captain ahead of him too.

Which is why when Cullen is back, Toner will likely be out of the team with Leo and Thorn starting. I think Cullen is miles past it and would start Toner ahead of him now, but I don't think it will happen.

We'll see on March 23rd I think. Leinsters next match. I think it is possible Toner will get rewarded for his efforts this season and will be picked with Thorn for that game.

Particulary if Leo is not back in full training right now would make sense to start Toner ahead of him. Either way looking forward to seeing our second row in the next few Leinster games.

[anonymous_joe]

Wally back
Nagle on the bech as well


Munster: F Jones, D Hurley, S Tokula, L Mafi, S Zebo; S Deasy, D Williams; W du Preez, M Sherry, S Archer; B Holland, M O'Driscoll capt; Dave O'Callaghan, T O'Donnell, P Butler. Replacements: D Fogarty, M Horan, BJ Botha, I Nagle, D Wallace, C Sheridan, I Keatley, L O'Dea.

That man is a god. Seriously, we need to breed those Wallace brothers quickly. Between them you could probably cover 9 or 10 positions if you got enough sons.

On a separate note, don't know if anyone listened to GT on Off teh Ball's football show last night, but football journo Gerry's an idealistic fan/journo who hates conservative coaches who play boring football and don't give youth a chance.

[binge90]

I'd just like to say fair f**king play to David Wallace. When that tackle went in I was distraught, because I said that that's his career done.

Shows how wrong I was to doubt the Cyborg. The man is a machine.

Fair play Wally.

[camroc1]

I'd just like to say fair f**king play to David Wallace. When that tackle went in I was distraught, because I said that that's his career done.

Shows how wrong I was to doubt the Cyborg. The man is a machine.

Fair play Wally.

+ 1

[MunsterMan!!!!!]

Wally back
Nagle on the bech as well


Munster: F Jones, D Hurley, S Tokula, L Mafi, S Zebo; S Deasy, D Williams; W du Preez, M Sherry, S Archer; B Holland, M O'Driscoll capt; Dave O'Callaghan, T O'Donnell, P Butler. Replacements: D Fogarty, M Horan, BJ Botha, I Nagle, D Wallace, C Sheridan, I Keatley, L O'Dea.

So very very happy Wally is back,

[ZappaMan]

Wally

[Hellraiser]

I have a full on erection right now. Getting some odd looks in the office.

[Nolanator]

Delighted for Wally. Really thought he was done for after that tackle. Was fairly upset after that England game.

Great to see him back.

[kerry_exile]

Wally. What a man. Great to see him back in the squad.

[CM11]

I'd just like to say fair f**king play to David Wallace. When that tackle went in I was distraught, because I said that that's his career done.

Shows how wrong I was to doubt the Cyborg. The man is a machine.

Fair play Wally.

+1 for not giving up but let's see him play before knowing if his Irish career is over. Hopefully it's not.

Re. Toner, what's happened elsewhere shouldn't detract from his achievement, which is damn good for his age. If you don't want to compare him to Nagle, how about POC who had made half as many appearances for Munster at the same age. Now I'm not for a second saying he's as good (I'm not that demented) while the fewer amount of games when POC started has to be taken into account but POC made his first Munster appearance nearly 2 years after Toner.

It is fashionable to not like Toner and he certainly has his negatives but IMO in the cameos he's had for Ireland he hasn't looked out of place while he rarely lets Leinster down. Given the age profile of our current locks and the lack of depth there it would be premature to write him off, especially given his experience to date and the steady improvement in his game.

I wouldn't be calling for him to start tomorrow but I disagree he would bring nothing and arguably a Ryan/Toner pairing would be a lot more balanced and worthwhile than DOC/Ryan even if there are better partners for Ryan before getting to Toner.

[MunsterMan!!!!!]

Wally back
Nagle on the bech as well


Munster: F Jones, D Hurley, S Tokula, L Mafi, S Zebo; S Deasy, D Williams; W du Preez, M Sherry, S Archer; B Holland, M O'Driscoll capt; Dave O'Callaghan, T O'Donnell, P Butler. Replacements: D Fogarty, M Horan, BJ Botha, I Nagle, D Wallace, C Sheridan, I Keatley, L O'Dea.

I've just realised that Murphy isn't there either hazzah,
IT is interesting that Jones is holding onto the FB position with Hurley going to the wing, also interesting that Deasy is starting what is Cathal Sheridan like?

[SASP]

I'd just like to say fair f**king play to David Wallace. When that tackle went in I was distraught, because I said that that's his career done.

Shows how wrong I was to doubt the Cyborg. The man is a machine.

Fair play Wally.

+1 for not giving up but let's see him play before knowing if his Irish career is over. Hopefully it's not.

Re. Toner, what's happened elsewhere shouldn't detract from his achievement, which is damn good for his age. If you don't want to compare him to Nagle, how about POC who had made half as many appearances for Munster at the same age. Now I'm not for a second saying he's as good (I'm not that demented) while the fewer amount of games when POC started has to be taken into account but POC made his first Munster appearance nearly 2 years after Toner.

It is fashionable to not like Toner and he certainly has his negatives but IMO in the cameos he's had for Ireland he hasn't looked out of place while he rarely lets Leinster down. Given the age profile of our current locks and the lack of depth there it would be premature to write him off, especially given his experience to date and the steady improvement in his game.

I wouldn't be calling for him to start tomorrow but I disagree he would bring nothing and arguably a Ryan/Toner pairing would be a lot more balanced and worthwhile than DOC/Ryan even if there are better partners for Ryan before getting to Toner.

Toner would probably play well with Tuohy.
Like wise Ryan and Tuohy would be my preffered pairing for Ireland.

As an Ulster man I can confirm that Toner is my favorite Leinster player.
Very underrated. Been excellent for his province in every game this season.