The Official Irish Rugby Thread

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DOB
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

Won the game because Hogg dropped the ball over the line.
Couple of things on this, as I’ve seen it said a few times.

Hogg dropped the ball in the corner. No guarantees Hastings makes that kick.

Scotland had a penalty advantage, which Hastings did kick over from in front. So the maximum difference the try would have made is 4 points, and possibly only 2.

Ireland scored 2 more penalties after that, and still repelled the on-the-line final assault from Scotland. And won by 7. I know some feel differently, but I never felt the result was in doubt on Saturday, and I think most of the reaction is an overreaction to us not beating Scotland by as much as some people expected us to.

I’m a lot more concerned that the gameplan hasn’t changed, than by anything performance related from the weekend.
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Duff Paddy
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Duff Paddy »

DOB wrote:
Won the game because Hogg dropped the ball over the line.
Couple of things on this, as I’ve seen it said a few times.

Hogg dropped the ball in the corner. No guarantees Hastings makes that kick.

Scotland had a penalty advantage, which Hastings did kick over from in front. So the maximum difference the try would have made is 4 points, and possibly only 2.

Ireland scored 2 more penalties after that, and still repelled the on-the-line final assault from Scotland. And won by 7. I know some feel differently, but I never felt the result was in doubt on Saturday, and I think most of the reaction is an overreaction to us not beating Scotland by as much as some people expected us to.

I’m a lot more concerned that the gameplan hasn’t changed, than by anything performance related from the weekend.
It must have looked very different on tv... we were lucky
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Trostan »

Salanya wrote:
CM11 wrote:Gatland tried a lot of young players. Some hit, some missed. He had some fallow 6N too.

Really think it's a bit stupid to be going after Farrell after one game. Chillax.
I think it's wrong to go after Farrell in his first Six Nations, and the talk of Lancaster taking over at this stage is just silly.

But I think it is fair to express concern or disappointment with the selections so far. The 2019 trend of sticking with the seniors and not rewarding form is continuing.

Just one token call would have satisfied me, for example Cooney ahead of Murray, or Deegan instead of POM.
We just need to see a hint of change. Perhaps the team will show this on the field this weekend, but last Saturday's performance hasn't induced much optimism.
I don't think fans are going after Farrell after one game.
It's like, look at Sinn Fein in the polls, because people are frustrated by the status quo.
I think there is an apprehension that all we are going to get is more of the same.
And we need to take the future on, not create it from the past.
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DOB
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

And let’s be clear about another thing;
Last year was perhaps the most disastrous in Irish rugby for over twenty years.
2019 was not more disastrous than 1999.

Or 2008

Or 2013 when we lost to Italy, ffs.

Last year was a drop off after the high of 2018, but apart from ‘99, the other previous lows were drop offs too.
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

I was at the game and would have same view as DOB. I was never worried about a loss although, as you do when your team are playing shit, I thought we might give up a cheap score near the end for the draw.

The game was so flat for me with very little zip or energy. Like the Italy games of old.
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Duff Paddy
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Duff Paddy »

DOB wrote:And let’s be clear about another thing;
Last year was perhaps the most disastrous in Irish rugby for over twenty years.
2019 was not more disastrous than 1999.

Or 2008

Or 2013 when we lost to Italy, ffs.

Last year was a drop off after the high of 2018, but apart from ‘99, the other previous lows were drop offs too.
You’d have Japan above Italy, who were decent at the time? Interesting
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by camroc1 »

CM11 wrote:I was at the game and would have same view as DOB. I was never worried about a loss although, as you do when your team are playing shit, I thought we might give up a cheap score near the end for the draw.

The game was so flat for me with very little zip or energy. Like the Italy games of old.
This was what was disappointing.

Also the try we scored was good, and it seemed we could score a few more.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Ulsters Red Hand »

Bit of an over reaction here imo

Yes it's not a great team but he's handed out 3 debuts so far in 2 games and has given four young lads a taste of senior training. In the Scotland game perhaps but it would be ridiculous against Wales to start handing out new caps all over the shop. Let's wait until the summer tour but for me he's at least shown that there are places up for grabs and if it wasn't for Doris' concussion, he would be in there too - so really, POM isn't really first choice all things being equal. It's not like he's been head coach for a year and we've seen nothing new

It could be worse, Kearney could be at 15
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Duff Paddy
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Duff Paddy »

CM11 wrote:I was at the game and would have same view as DOB. I was never worried about a loss although, as you do when your team are playing shit, I thought we might give up a cheap score near the end for the draw.

The game was so flat for me with very little zip or energy. Like the Italy games of old.
You were never worried about a loss? Why not? It’s not like we were dominant and miles ahead on the scoreboard. Bizarre. We started strongly so that might have lulled people into a false sense of security but rugby is about momentum. Hogg scores that, we are in big trouble.
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Duff Paddy wrote:
CM11 wrote:I was at the game and would have same view as DOB. I was never worried about a loss although, as you do when your team are playing shit, I thought we might give up a cheap score near the end for the draw.

The game was so flat for me with very little zip or energy. Like the Italy games of old.
You were never worried about a loss? Why not? It’s not like we were dominant and miles ahead on the scoreboard. Bizarre. We started strongly so that might have lulled people into a false sense of security but rugby is about momentum. Hogg scores that, we are in big trouble.
Because I thought we were marginally less shit than Scotland and would do enough to stay ahead. Also felt things settled into stalemate with our bench on, nothing spectacular but no major risk of Scotland creating much.
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DOB
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

It must have looked very different on tv... we were lucky
We weren’t. We were poor. Scotland were worse. We had more line breaks, won more turnovers, their best try chance came from an interception thrown by our worst player. I don’t think we could complain if we had lost, but we were good enough in the final quarter to make sure we didn’t.
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DOB
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by DOB »

Duff Paddy wrote:
DOB wrote:And let’s be clear about another thing;
Last year was perhaps the most disastrous in Irish rugby for over twenty years.
2019 was not more disastrous than 1999.

Or 2008

Or 2013 when we lost to Italy, ffs.

Last year was a drop off after the high of 2018, but apart from ‘99, the other previous lows were drop offs too.
You’d have Japan above Italy, who were decent at the time? Interesting
Yes, I’d have the current Japan team (who were hosts last year, don’t forget) over 2013 Italy.

And while we were well beat by NZ in the quarter final, it was a lot better than losing 60-0.
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

DOB wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
DOB wrote:And let’s be clear about another thing;
Last year was perhaps the most disastrous in Irish rugby for over twenty years.
2019 was not more disastrous than 1999.

Or 2008

Or 2013 when we lost to Italy, ffs.

Last year was a drop off after the high of 2018, but apart from ‘99, the other previous lows were drop offs too.
You’d have Japan above Italy, who were decent at the time? Interesting
Yes, I’d have the current Japan team (who were hosts last year, don’t forget) over 2013 Italy.

And while we were well beat by NZ in the quarter final, it was a lot better than losing 60-0.
60-0 was 2012.

2013 as a whole probably was better because there was a lot of optimism by the end of it.
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Duff Paddy
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Duff Paddy »

Yeah he said 20 years to exclude 1999, and his point stands
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Despot
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Despot »

By 5pm saturday doris, Deegan and kelleher will be capped. Cooney will have the guts of an hour's play done. That's change. Not revolution but change. Revolution was never going to happen.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Ulsters Red Hand »

Despot wrote:By 5pm saturday doris, Deegan and kelleher will be capped. Cooney will have the guts of an hour's play done. That's change. Not revolution but change. Revolution was never going to happen.
100% this
It's faux outrage that we don't see wholesale changes when not even the AB's, who are streets ahead development wise, and have a higher quality player pool, do it often/to a huge degree unless forced
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Brian9848 »

Christ, we won. We should not underestimate that we found a way to win when we werent playing that well. Again, it's Farrell/Catt's first game, and our play will evolve. Aside form Italy, any win in the 6N's is hard-earned.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Flametop »

NZ don’t need to drop lots of players.
The real threat of being dropped if you play badly makes players think twice before playing badly.
Ireland players know it’s harder to get dropped than blooded.

Completely different mindset.
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Flametop wrote:NZ don’t need to drop lots of players.
The real threat of being dropped if you play badly makes players think twice before playing badly.
Ireland players know it’s harder to get dropped than blooded.

Completely different mindset.
Who, apart from Murray, deserved to be dropped but wasn't?
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Brian9848 »

Wales have shown this past year that, currently, they are just a better team than us. Can we expect a win against them will be accompanied by a chorus of whinging if the full 80 minute performance isn't sufficiently thrilling?
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Adetroy »

Duff Paddy wrote:Yeah he said 20 years to exclude 1999, and his point stands
More to the point, we went from being genuine World Cup contenders to a implosion in form almost with precedence in modern rugby history. Nobody took us seriously in 1999 or 2009. Not the case this time.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Flametop »

CM11 wrote:
Flametop wrote:NZ don’t need to drop lots of players.
The real threat of being dropped if you play badly makes players think twice before playing badly.
Ireland players know it’s harder to get dropped than blooded.

Completely different mindset.
Who, apart from Murray, deserved to be dropped but wasn't?
Sexton shouldn’t be captain (Ryan), POM should be dropped, Earls should be dropped, actually we should just go with Leinster against Wales.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Ulsters Red Hand »

Flametop wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Flametop wrote:NZ don’t need to drop lots of players.
The real threat of being dropped if you play badly makes players think twice before playing badly.
Ireland players know it’s harder to get dropped than blooded.

Completely different mindset.
Who, apart from Murray, deserved to be dropped but wasn't?
Sexton shouldn’t be captain (Ryan), POM should be dropped, Earls should be dropped, actually we should just go with Leinster against Wales.
POM is clearly only there because of injury
There is a valid train of thought for Sexton to be captain, you may not agree but it is there. Saying that he isn't the long term captain and I think it will be 1-2 years before we see Ryan take that role on
Earls I agree with you on him but I can live with him off the bench, glad he isn't starting
Last edited by Ulsters Red Hand on Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Flametop wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Flametop wrote:NZ don’t need to drop lots of players.
The real threat of being dropped if you play badly makes players think twice before playing badly.
Ireland players know it’s harder to get dropped than blooded.

Completely different mindset.
Who, apart from Murray, deserved to be dropped but wasn't?
Sexton shouldn’t be captain (Ryan), POM should be dropped, Earls should be dropped, actually we should just go with Leinster against Wales.
Earls has been dropped. POM has been dropped. Ryan is fine for another half season as part of the leadership group without having to deal with the media.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Brian9848 »

CM11 wrote:
Flametop wrote:NZ don’t need to drop lots of players.
The real threat of being dropped if you play badly makes players think twice before playing badly.
Ireland players know it’s harder to get dropped than blooded.

Completely different mindset.
Who, apart from Murray, deserved to be dropped but wasn't?
One player whose selection seemed to disappoint many, Stander, eneded up being the best Irish player on the field. Nothing wrong challenging selections and approach, especially on a forum like this and also after Joe's orthodoxy remained mainly unchallenged for years (for pretty good reasons). But expectations seem a little unrealistic and it seems that no faith will be extended to the current coaching set-up and confidence in them will only be had by winning AND playing in an attractive style.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by grimoald »

The state of anyone who thinks Luke McGrath provides quicker and more accurate service than Murray :uhoh:

Oh but here is a random video of the odd bit of quick ball when Leinster forwards are dominating collisions against lesser sides. :roll:
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Duff Paddy »

That says as much about how the rest of the pack played to be fair.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Duff Paddy »

grimoald wrote:The state of anyone who thinks Luke McGrath provides quicker and more accurate service than Murray :uhoh:

Oh but here is a random video of the odd bit of quick ball when Leinster forwards are dominating collisions against lesser sides. :roll:
Did anyone suggest that? The argument is for Cooney. But like Marmion before him, Murray appears to be untouchable
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by grimoald »

CM11 wrote:Quibbles over 12 but other than Cooney for Murray, what team would everyone have picked for Scotland? Kelleher?
Based on post last week, at least a dozen on here would have picked Ruddock over Stander. Of course they're silent on that now.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Armchair_Superstar »

Scotland have had a real chip about us in recent years and they were smarting after the RWC. The comment from the players was that it was a very physical Test and Farrell wasn’t really trying to hide his relief at the win.

The line break stats were decent and Scotland were handy enough at playing the French ref to slow things back down. Add in a new shape and injuries to two key players and a bit of bother getting organised is probably to be expected.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Mr. Very Popular »

Maybe AF is trying to change and develop our style and wants to keep changes to an minimum, mad I know.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by paddyor »

CM11 wrote:Gatland tried a lot of young players. Some hit, some missed. He had some fallow 6N too.

Really think it's a bit stupid to be going after Farrell after one game. Chillax.
Yeah, there’s a bit to be unhappy about even in the so called “positive” play but passing judgement on the entire ticket after a game seems OTT.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by paddyor »

Adetroy wrote:What is really concerning is that Farrell is either ignoring or misreading the public mood. Last year was perhaps the most disastrous in Irish rugby for over twenty years. The gap between November 2018 and 2019 was genuinely shocking. And we have been here before, with Kidney doing the exact same as Joe and kept picking a raft of players clearly past it or out of form. When you currently have the best team in Europe (Leinster) and another clearly undergoing significant improvement (Ulster) and others near the top of the league (Munster), you should have 5-10 newish players knocking on the door. AND WE DO!! Part of me is thinking that getting a beating from Wales may now be the best thing. FFS. Joe blew it because he bottled selection, but at least he had earned the right as the greatest coach in Irish History to feck up on his own terms. Farrell needs to recognise that Irish supporters are in no mood for November 2018 and 2019 Mark II.
No, it was not the most disastrous year in Irish rugby. Kidney took over from EOS and won a slam with pretty much the same team. Farrell’s job isn’t to worry about the mood of the Irish public. Gatland never gave 2 shites about the Welsh public even when they were playing terribly.

I thought the narrative was Schmidt blew it because he botched the game plan? I’m not sure if you change 2 or 3 players results change that much for us in 2019.
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by paddyor »

feckwanker wrote:
Adetroy wrote:What is really concerning is that Farrell is either ignoring or misreading the public mood. Last year was perhaps the most disastrous in Irish rugby for over twenty years. The gap between November 2018 and 2019 was genuinely shocking. And we have been here before, with Kidney doing the exact same as Joe and kept picking a raft of players clearly past it or out of form. When you currently have the best team in Europe (Leinster) and another clearly undergoing significant improvement (Ulster) and others near the top of the league (Munster), you should have 5-10 newish players knocking on the door. AND WE DO!! Part of me is thinking that getting a beating from Wales may now be the best thing. FFS. Joe blew it because he bottled selection, but at least he had earned the right as the greatest coach in Irish History to feck up on his own terms. Farrell needs to recognise that Irish supporters are in no mood for November 2018 and 2019 Mark II.
Farrell's job is top pick the best players he think will fit his gameplan and win the game based on our perceived strengths and our oppositions perceived weaknesses- not select a populist team chosen on Facebook by mouth- breathers.
:thumbup:
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Jim Lahey
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Jim Lahey »

CM11 wrote:
Flametop wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Flametop wrote:NZ don’t need to drop lots of players.
The real threat of being dropped if you play badly makes players think twice before playing badly.
Ireland players know it’s harder to get dropped than blooded.

Completely different mindset.
Who, apart from Murray, deserved to be dropped but wasn't?
Sexton shouldn’t be captain (Ryan), POM should be dropped, Earls should be dropped, actually we should just go with Leinster against Wales.
Earls has been dropped. POM has been dropped. Ryan is fine for another half season as part of the leadership group without having to deal with the media.
I thought Earls was down as injured for last week?
Either way he should be nowhere near the 23 jersey given his form over the last year. Addison, Daverage or even Baloucoune would be far better choices.
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Jim Lahey wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Flametop wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Flametop wrote:NZ don’t need to drop lots of players.
The real threat of being dropped if you play badly makes players think twice before playing badly.
Ireland players know it’s harder to get dropped than blooded.

Completely different mindset.
Who, apart from Murray, deserved to be dropped but wasn't?
Sexton shouldn’t be captain (Ryan), POM should be dropped, Earls should be dropped, actually we should just go with Leinster against Wales.
Earls has been dropped. POM has been dropped. Ryan is fine for another half season as part of the leadership group without having to deal with the media.
I thought Earls was down as injured for last week?
Either way he should be nowhere near the 23 jersey given his form over the last year. Addison, Daverage or even Baloucoune would be far better choices.
You do know Earls isn't starting this week either?
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Jim Lahey
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by Jim Lahey »

Try reading my post again, particularly the second sentence.
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

Jim Lahey wrote:Try reading my post again, particularly the second sentence.
I've read it. It doesn't make Earls less dropped.

Do we know if Addison is fit?
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by paddyor »

Addison is injured according to Farrell. The Earls selection makes sense because he covers centre .
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CM11
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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Post by CM11 »

paddyor wrote:Addison is injured according to Farrell. The Earls selection makes sense because he covers centre .
Now you've gone and done it.
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