PornDog wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:59 pm
SFBB wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:31 pm
PornDog wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:13 pm
SFBB wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:10 pm
PornDog wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:48 pm
Nah not having that. The Vunipolas, Itoje, Farrell and Daly are most likely paid a good chunk more by Saracens alone than the likes of Sexton and Furlong are earning from their Ireland contracts. I'd be surprised if any of the other pay tiers had a larger Leinster average salary than their Sarries equivalent as well.
Maybe if Leinster's squad is significantly bigger than Sarries one we might start getting somewhere, but most of that extra depth is coming in at the bottom of the pay scale - how much are any of the O'Briens really earning for instance?
That's not to say I don't agree with your point that any conjoined competition would have to have a level financial playing field - of course it would. I don't think it would be as big an obstacle as you're making out though. Obviously the central contract system would have to be abandoned (which has its detractors anyway) and an International pay structure somewhat similar to England's would have to be brought in, but that's not a big thing really so long as there is a lead time to organise it all.
To pay those guys what they are worth they had to actively breech their 7m salary cap plus two uncounted marquee players. For argument sake 8.5m as Farrell appears to be on 750k by all accounts. If their 6 England players play 12 games a year at 25k per game, thats another 1.8m. 10.3m total
IRFU spends about 35m pounds a year on pro players, which Leinster get more than 1/4 because of their density of central contracts. I found an estimate for the cost of the Leinster squad at between 11-13m which is pretty much bang on what Saracens should have paying without their shenanigans.
€35M (that's Euro), to run 5 teams which also includes all coaching staff salaries for those 5 teams.
Even if you suppose the coaches work for free, that's an average of €7M per team. Okay lets add 30% for Leinster being awesome and deserving it, and another €500k from donors - its still well under €10M (realistically it will be closer to €8M than it will be to €9M).
Ignoring Sarries cheating, that £7M cap gets 2 high end exceptions (probably ~£1.5M in total) plus their England and Academy credits and they (and most other top Prem teams) would be over £9M legally.
And obviously Sarries are a poor comparison to make because they did cheat like fudge!
No, it's 40m euro. 35m sterling. Leinster get a lot of money from the IRFU but also raise funds themselves, bringing their player budget to the 11-13m euro mark as I've suggested above. It's roughly in line with top English club budgets, within a margin of error.
I wont argue the topline figure with you - I can't be arsed digging out the report and its possible I'm recalling one from a few years ago.
I also don't take issue with you saying that Leinster's budget is roughly in line with top English club budgets - I took issue with you saying it was comparable to Sarries - which is a completely different comparison. For what its worth, I reckon it would in reality be about 10% lower, but as you say that's getting into margin of error territory - there's a lot of guesswork that goes on with these figures.
Are you including what players get paid for Ireland in your €11m-€13m figure, because I don't see how you can get to that without it? Even with a larger topline figure, I can't see Leinster's player budget approaching €10M.
With regard to Leinster raising money separately, I was under the impression that the IRFU accounts included the provincial accounts in them. So in that case the only "external" revenues would be the likes of the contributions from your DOBs, JPs and McIlroys - likely to be well less than €1M per year in total across the board (probably less than €500k pa).
Like I said above I agree with your central point of a level financial playing field, just taking issue with what I feel is an over egged comparison.
The 18/19 IRFU accounts include a figure of € 45.6m under professional games cost. However they are very opaque about what is included in that, and it would be prudent to include all costs associated with professional mens rugby on the island.
Taking Leinster :
They have 47 in their squad ranging from first year professionals to old heads like Toner etc. Of that 47, four (Bent, Fardy, G-P and Lowe) are from overseas, and two (Cronin, Henshaw) from other provinces. So 41 of the squad are home developed.
They have an Academy squad of 18.
They have 5 coaches (Cullen, Lancaster, Contepomi, Farrell and McBryde).
They have 29 other backroom staff (that does not include any admin staff), ranging from kit man to team doctor, and everything in between.
That's a total of 101 mouths to feed from Academy level right up to Sexton/Furlong level.
And that's just salary costs, and doesn't include any rental(offices/pitch) costs; or indeed any travel/hotel costs, which in 18/19 included to SA.
Doing some basic arithmetic:
€ 45.6m /4 = € 11.4m/province;
€ 11.4m/101 = (approx) € 113 k av. salary per employee
That suggests that most of the playing, academy, and backroom staff are earning considerably less than the figures you see bandied about.