Page 8202 of 13133

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:36 am
by FravBront
I'm a huge fan of Henshaw, but I think its Aki and Ringrose first choice at the moment.

I'm not sure where that leaves him really, as I'd rather someone like Larmour at 23 (hopefully hes starting 15 before too long).

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:38 am
by CM11
Duff Paddy wrote:The scoreline really flattered us.
Our pack is very good, with good depth.
Leavy played well but got absolutely left for dead early in the second half - and it happened against Wales as well.
Ringrose was the best player on the pitch.
Kearney man of the match was bizarre.
Our backs looked so blunt compared to Scotland, we really need some pace from full back.
Stockdale is a serious liability in defence, he needs to improve there.
Yet they made more linebreaks, beat more defenders, ran for more metres and scored more tries.

We choose to attack a certain way, for sure a Hogg type player would give us more options but I wouldn't be confusing choosing to be methodical with not being able to attack through the backs. We don't (off setpiece) do it as much because it's a higher risk play that we don't need to engage in. Scotland don't have that luxury. Once their initial attempts to create space off setpiece is halted, they become just as blunt. They just look a bit fancier getting nowhere.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:40 am
by CM11
Yer Man wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:Even in the backs we have good depth in a load of positions. Moving forward, if all 3 are fit it’ll be interesting to see who’s going to be first choice 13. My money is on Ringrose but I hope we see Aki partnered with him, though I don’t think we lose a lot if it’s Henshaw or Farrell being first choice. Hopefully the Henshaw at 12 thing has been done now
Ringrose is just a different class.

Has genuine pace - forces teams to respect that, or cuts them open if they don't.
And lovely hands, beautiful execution on the runaround for the 2nd try.
Don't forget his balance. He has that low centre of gravity BOD had making it easier to stay on his feet or get back up quickly while still being able to step.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:43 am
by CM11
FravBront wrote:I'm a huge fan of Henshaw, but I think its Aki and Ringrose first choice at the moment.

I'm not sure where that leaves him really, as I'd rather someone like Larmour at 23 (hopefully hes starting 15 before too long).
I'd definitely have Henshaw on the bench if he wasn't starting. Probably wouldn't have Aki there though if Henshaw was starting.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:50 am
by Yer Man
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
Diego wrote:Henshaw will be playing 12 for Leinster so they'll get a lot of chances to perform together.
Aki was seriously impressive all tournament, if both fit it’ll take a lot for Henshaw to be first choice 12 again imo
Not in his handling.

Actually the soft return pass to Ringrose was the first nice pass I can remember him making.
Too often the hands aren't quick enough or good enough.

edit:

But we are at the "French Oral" stage of marking someone down from 100 and only picking his faults.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:53 am
by CM11
Yer Man wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
Diego wrote:Henshaw will be playing 12 for Leinster so they'll get a lot of chances to perform together.
Aki was seriously impressive all tournament, if both fit it’ll take a lot for Henshaw to be first choice 12 again imo
Not in his handling.

Actually the soft return pass to Ringrose was the first nice pass I can remember him making.
Too often the hands aren't quick enough or good enough.
I think there's room for Aki to get better. He's playing in a Connacht side who aren't firing on all cylinders and aren't playing at the highest level in Europe. It's his rookie season at international level don't forget. I would like to see better ball handling from him all round though next season.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:57 am
by Diego
So do we make any changes for next week? Hendo to start maybe? I've a strange feeling he may start McGrath too. Conway will probably take the 23 shirt if he's fit.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:00 am
by Nolanator
Duff Paddy wrote: Leavy played well but got absolutely left for dead early in the second half - and it happened against Wales as well.
The one yesterday he made a bad read. He bit down on dummy runners but Scotland threw a screen pass behind them and he was left trying to catch up

The Wales one was worse IMO. I this case he made a bad read, against Wales he was just caught napping on the outside.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:01 am
by Ulsters Red Hand
CM11 wrote:
FravBront wrote:I'm a huge fan of Henshaw, but I think its Aki and Ringrose first choice at the moment.

I'm not sure where that leaves him really, as I'd rather someone like Larmour at 23 (hopefully hes starting 15 before too long).
I'd definitely have Henshaw on the bench if he wasn't starting. Probably wouldn't have Aki there though if Henshaw was starting.
I disagree. Can’t imagine Joe would put Henshaw on at 15 if someone got injured given he hasnt played there for Ireland before, so youre going to have to shuffle the back line mid game. Put someone like Conway or Larmour there who can cover back three and, in Larmours case, at 13. Agreed on Aki though

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:09 am
by CM11
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
CM11 wrote:
FravBront wrote:I'm a huge fan of Henshaw, but I think its Aki and Ringrose first choice at the moment.

I'm not sure where that leaves him really, as I'd rather someone like Larmour at 23 (hopefully hes starting 15 before too long).
I'd definitely have Henshaw on the bench if he wasn't starting. Probably wouldn't have Aki there though if Henshaw was starting.
I disagree. Can’t imagine Joe would put Henshaw on at 15 if someone got injured given he hasnt played there for Ireland before, so youre going to have to shuffle the back line mid game. Put someone like Conway or Larmour there who can cover back three and, in Larmours case, at 13. Agreed on Aki though
Schmidt talked about Henshaw as an option at FB during the AIs. I think he'd probably need to see him there a couple of times alright but it has been considered.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:15 am
by Ulsters Red Hand
CM11 wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
CM11 wrote:
FravBront wrote:I'm a huge fan of Henshaw, but I think its Aki and Ringrose first choice at the moment.

I'm not sure where that leaves him really, as I'd rather someone like Larmour at 23 (hopefully hes starting 15 before too long).
I'd definitely have Henshaw on the bench if he wasn't starting. Probably wouldn't have Aki there though if Henshaw was starting.
I disagree. Can’t imagine Joe would put Henshaw on at 15 if someone got injured given he hasnt played there for Ireland before, so youre going to have to shuffle the back line mid game. Put someone like Conway or Larmour there who can cover back three and, in Larmours case, at 13. Agreed on Aki though
Schmidt talked about Henshaw as an option at FB during the AIs. I think he'd probably need to see him there a couple of times alright but it has been considered.
He shouldnt really be anything more than a break glass option there. Assuming Zebo has gone we’ve got

1. Kearney
2. Conway

And then, in some order, 3rd-5th choice of Carbery, Larmour and then Earls or Stockdale moving in

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:17 am
by Jumper
Willie Falloon wrote:
Diego wrote:
Floppykid wrote:https://youtu.be/mgoxs0cXhAk?t=5m29s

Gotta love that step.
Anyone who says Ringer should have passed that is talking out their hoop. Everyone is marked.

Sexton and Earls cleaning Watson out of the ruck though :thumbup:
Only Jumper is saying that.
And Ringrose himself...

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:18 am
by CM11
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
CM11 wrote:
FravBront wrote:I'm a huge fan of Henshaw, but I think its Aki and Ringrose first choice at the moment.

I'm not sure where that leaves him really, as I'd rather someone like Larmour at 23 (hopefully hes starting 15 before too long).
I'd definitely have Henshaw on the bench if he wasn't starting. Probably wouldn't have Aki there though if Henshaw was starting.
I disagree. Can’t imagine Joe would put Henshaw on at 15 if someone got injured given he hasnt played there for Ireland before, so youre going to have to shuffle the back line mid game. Put someone like Conway or Larmour there who can cover back three and, in Larmours case, at 13. Agreed on Aki though
Schmidt talked about Henshaw as an option at FB during the AIs. I think he'd probably need to see him there a couple of times alright but it has been considered.
He shouldnt really be anything more than a break glass option there. Assuming Zebo has gone we’ve got

1. Kearney
2. Conway

And then, in some order, 3rd-5th choice of Carbery, Larmour and then Earls or Stockdale moving in
As starters, absolutely, but there's a lot to be said for someone who can adequately cover the entire set of outside backs, particularly given his experience.

And actually, Carbery might cover FB first anyway.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:22 am
by Lenny
Nolanator wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote: Leavy played well but got absolutely left for dead early in the second half - and it happened against Wales as well.
The one yesterday he made a bad read. He bit down on dummy runners but Scotland threw a screen pass behind them and he was left trying to catch up

The Wales one was worse IMO. I this case he made a bad read, against Wales he was just caught napping on the outside.
I agree about the read, which is what created the space, but of real concern is that he was desperately slow in turning and chasing back, and he got similarly left for dead against Wales. He has been excellent otherwise this 6ns, and is a real warrior, but I’m sure other sides will have noted his weakness and will look to exploit it.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:24 am
by Bullettyme
Floppykid wrote:https://youtu.be/mgoxs0cXhAk?t=5m29s

Gotta love that step.
The line Ryan takes just after that is brilliant, sets it up very nicely.

I don't think the pass to Earls was on really.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:25 am
by CM11
Leavy looks chunky enough but clearly isn't naturally big when you look at him from a few years back. He's been covering 6 a lot for Leinster and there might be room for some weight loss to give him extra agility if he's going to concentrate on 7.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:31 am
by Mullet 2
CM11 wrote:Leavy looks chunky enough but clearly isn't naturally big when you look at him from a few years back. He's been covering 6 a lot for Leinster and there might be room for some weight loss to give him extra agility if he's going to concentrate on 7.

And have the bored luminaries peg him as "Too light" in the way they do VDF?


You can't have it all lads.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:33 am
by Lenny
Bullettyme wrote:
Floppykid wrote:https://youtu.be/mgoxs0cXhAk?t=5m29s

Gotta love that step.
The line Ryan takes just after that is brilliant, sets it up very nicely.

I don't think the pass to Earls was on really.
Earls was covered imo, and probably would have been tackled as soon as he got the ball. He had made a great supporting run, but I thought he was just in Ringrose’s blindspot. Looking left might have been a better option but neither side offered an easy pass, and I think there was probably a very high chance of a turnover if he had attempted one.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:36 am
by CM11
Actually, if the Leinster stats are to be believed, Leavy is pretty much at fighting weight for a 7. Apparently less than 2kg between himself and VDF.

Leavy's weight bizarrely measured to two decimal points! 105.91kgs.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:48 am
by harry 22
Mullet 2 wrote:
CM11 wrote:Leavy looks chunky enough but clearly isn't naturally big when you look at him from a few years back. He's been covering 6 a lot for Leinster and there might be room for some weight loss to give him extra agility if he's going to concentrate on 7.

And have the bored luminaries peg him as "Too light" in the way they do VDF?


You can't have it all lads.

I think its more an engine issue as opposed to a speed issue with leavy. Its happened in 3 games now including Italy where there's times he just looks gassed, losing concentration and getting caught in the outside channel

he's been quality, but definitely needs to either work on conditioning or more likely being more selective when he attacks a breakdown in defence.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:52 am
by Duff Paddy
CM11 wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:The scoreline really flattered us.
Our pack is very good, with good depth.
Leavy played well but got absolutely left for dead early in the second half - and it happened against Wales as well.
Ringrose was the best player on the pitch.
Kearney man of the match was bizarre.
Our backs looked so blunt compared to Scotland, we really need some pace from full back.
Stockdale is a serious liability in defence, he needs to improve there.
Yet they made more linebreaks, beat more defenders, ran for more metres and scored more tries.

We choose to attack a certain way, for sure a Hogg type player would give us more options but I wouldn't be confusing choosing to be methodical with not being able to attack through the backs. We don't (off setpiece) do it as much because it's a higher risk play that we don't need to engage in. Scotland don't have that luxury. Once their initial attempts to create space off setpiece is halted, they become just as blunt. They just look a bit fancier getting nowhere.
What! They were a final pass away from scoring two beautiful tries.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:53 am
by CM11
Lenny wrote:
Bullettyme wrote:
Floppykid wrote:https://youtu.be/mgoxs0cXhAk?t=5m29s

Gotta love that step.
The line Ryan takes just after that is brilliant, sets it up very nicely.

I don't think the pass to Earls was on really.
Earls was covered imo, and probably would have been tackled as soon as he got the ball. He had made a great supporting run, but I thought he was just in Ringrose’s blindspot. Looking left might have been a better option but neither side offered an easy pass, and I think there was probably a very high chance of a turnover if he had attempted one.
Just looked at Ringrose's comments and the break again properly. There wasn't a pass on. Sexton might have been annoyed but when he looks at the video review, he'll realise it's himself he should be annoyed with. He was actually marginally ahead of Ringrose when calling for the pass but was never better than flat with him. Even if Ringrose got away with the pass being forward and Sexton got over the line, it'd be ruled out on review.

If Earls had pulled slightly right there was a gap to play him into but I think he would have been caught anyway.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:55 am
by camroc1
Duff Paddy wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:The scoreline really flattered us.
Our pack is very good, with good depth.
Leavy played well but got absolutely left for dead early in the second half - and it happened against Wales as well.
Ringrose was the best player on the pitch.
Kearney man of the match was bizarre.
Our backs looked so blunt compared to Scotland, we really need some pace from full back.
Stockdale is a serious liability in defence, he needs to improve there.
Yet they made more linebreaks, beat more defenders, ran for more metres and scored more tries.

We choose to attack a certain way, for sure a Hogg type player would give us more options but I wouldn't be confusing choosing to be methodical with not being able to attack through the backs. We don't (off setpiece) do it as much because it's a higher risk play that we don't need to engage in. Scotland don't have that luxury. Once their initial attempts to create space off setpiece is halted, they become just as blunt. They just look a bit fancier getting nowhere.
What! They were a final pass away from scoring two beautiful tries.
And couldn't execute under pressure.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:57 am
by CM11
Duff Paddy wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:The scoreline really flattered us.
Our pack is very good, with good depth.
Leavy played well but got absolutely left for dead early in the second half - and it happened against Wales as well.
Ringrose was the best player on the pitch.
Kearney man of the match was bizarre.
Our backs looked so blunt compared to Scotland, we really need some pace from full back.
Stockdale is a serious liability in defence, he needs to improve there.
Yet they made more linebreaks, beat more defenders, ran for more metres and scored more tries.

We choose to attack a certain way, for sure a Hogg type player would give us more options but I wouldn't be confusing choosing to be methodical with not being able to attack through the backs. We don't (off setpiece) do it as much because it's a higher risk play that we don't need to engage in. Scotland don't have that luxury. Once their initial attempts to create space off setpiece is halted, they become just as blunt. They just look a bit fancier getting nowhere.
What! They were a final pass away from scoring two beautiful tries.
And we didn't create space?

Which tries are you attributing, btw? Hogg pass into touch and the obvious one? One off setpiece and the other off a quick throw. How does that counter my point?

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:00 pm
by Mullet 2
Lads, does the idea the idea of continuous slow-motion examination of a break from a camera mounted half-way up the stand to determine whether you believe a lad should have passed not strike you as a little ridiculous?

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:01 pm
by Boxcar Ira
Duff Paddy wrote:The scoreline really flattered us.
Our pack is very good, with good depth.
Leavy played well but got absolutely left for dead early in the second half - and it happened against Wales as well.
Ringrose was the best player on the pitch.
Kearney man of the match was bizarre.
Our backs looked so blunt compared to Scotland, we really need some pace from full back.
Stockdale is a serious liability in defence, he needs to improve there.
Not much to argue with there, but I do think that while Leavy looks gassed after however many minutes, he does gain a second wind. I thought he was gone when he was burnt in the build up to the POM tackle and turnover but he finished strongly after that.

He wasn't the only player that looked out of puff at times. The pace was frantic.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:04 pm
by danthefan
Boxcar Ira wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:The scoreline really flattered us.
Our pack is very good, with good depth.
Leavy played well but got absolutely left for dead early in the second half - and it happened against Wales as well.
Ringrose was the best player on the pitch.
Kearney man of the match was bizarre.
Our backs looked so blunt compared to Scotland, we really need some pace from full back.
Stockdale is a serious liability in defence, he needs to improve there.
Not much to argue with there
So much edge right here from the lads.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:05 pm
by CM11
Mullet 2 wrote:Lads, does the idea the idea of continuous slow-motion examination of a break from a camera mounted half-way up the stand to determine whether you believe a lad should have passed not strike you as a little ridiculous?
Less an examination of error and more an examination of how good a chance it was. And on examination it panned out, initially, as best as it could. It was disappointing it didn't yield any points though.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:13 pm
by ZuLu
danthefan wrote:
Boxcar Ira wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:The scoreline really flattered us.
Our pack is very good, with good depth.
Leavy played well but got absolutely left for dead early in the second half - and it happened against Wales as well.
Ringrose was the best player on the pitch.
Kearney man of the match was bizarre.
Our backs looked so blunt compared to Scotland, we really need some pace from full back.
Stockdale is a serious liability in defence, he needs to improve there.
Not much to argue with there
So much edge right here from the lads.
I'm with him too tbf Dan, the backs do look a bit one-dimensional at times, Aki especially, but it's the gameplan

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:13 pm
by danthefan
What do we expect for next weekend, Henderson to come back in and as you were otherwise? There were no injuries right?

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:15 pm
by camroc1
danthefan wrote:What do we expect for next weekend, Henderson to come back in and as you were otherwise? There were no injuries right?
I'd expect Toner to start, and for us to attack their scrum from the word go.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:16 pm
by Boxcar Ira
danthefan wrote:
Boxcar Ira wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:The scoreline really flattered us. - Yep. Scotland butchered one or two.
Our pack is very good, with good depth. Yep.
Leavy played well but got absolutely left for dead early in the second half - and it happened against Wales as well. Yep. But I argued it happens to all.
Ringrose was the best player on the pitch. Yep
Kearney man of the match was bizarre. Bizarre might be a stretch as he played very well but there were quite a few better
Our backs looked so blunt compared to Scotland, we really need some pace from full back. Yep - it is their strength tbf but forwards win matches and they created a much better platform for our backs.
Stockdale is a serious liability in defence, he needs to improve there. Yep - cant argue that there is room to improve surely?
Not much to argue with there
So much edge right here from the lads.
So not much to argue with.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:17 pm
by CM11
There weren't any injuries reported. Not quite the same as saying there were no injuries! I'd have my doubts about POM in particular.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:20 pm
by rfurlong
Everyone who claims that Ireland don't attack with vim and creativity, is missing a key point.

Wales and Scotland HAD TO attack us, while we were totally comfortable in slowly strangling them to death. Both Wales and Scotland HAD TO play on the counter-attack, as we were denying them the ball for vast swathes of each game.

I'd much prefer an orthodox (even boring) attack due to us owning the pill, rather than some sort of helter skelter, wide-wide, sevens style attack due to us having to chase the match like Wales and Scotland had to.

Some people need to get a bit of perspective I think

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:23 pm
by Willie Falloon
camroc1 wrote:
danthefan wrote:What do we expect for next weekend, Henderson to come back in and as you were otherwise? There were no injuries right?
I'd expect Toner to start, and for us to attack their scrum from the word go.
The commentator said that it was pretty common knowledge that Henderson was on the bench to save himself for England this week.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:24 pm
by danthefan
Willie Falloon wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
danthefan wrote:What do we expect for next weekend, Henderson to come back in and as you were otherwise? There were no injuries right?
I'd expect Toner to start, and for us to attack their scrum from the word go.
The commentator said that it was pretty common knowledge that Henderson was on the bench to save himself for England this week.
Well if the commentator said so :lol:

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:24 pm
by Willie Falloon
rfurlong wrote:Everyone who claims that Ireland don't attack with vim and creativity, is missing a key point.

Wales and Scotland HAD TO attack us, while we were totally comfortable in slowly strangling them to death. Both Wales and Scotland HAD TO play on the counter-attack, as we were denying them the ball for vast swathes of each game.

I'd much prefer an orthodox (even boring) attack due to us owning the pill, rather than some sort of helter skelter, wide-wide, sevens style attack due to us having to chase the match like Wales and Scotland had to.

Some people need to get a bit of perspective I think
Yep, like when Ulster play anyone and teams s the ABs.

The Irish pack is so good that most teams prefer a wider game.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:25 pm
by hermie
CM11 wrote:There weren't any injuries reported. Not quite the same as saying there were no injuries! I'd have my doubts about POM in particular.
Healy looked injured, no?

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:25 pm
by Willie Falloon
danthefan wrote:
Willie Falloon wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
danthefan wrote:What do we expect for next weekend, Henderson to come back in and as you were otherwise? There were no injuries right?
I'd expect Toner to start, and for us to attack their scrum from the word go.
The commentator said that it was pretty common knowledge that Henderson was on the bench to save himself for England this week.
Well if the commentator said so :lol:

:uhoh:

He was obviously told.

Anyway, time will tell.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:26 pm
by Mullet 2
Amazing that our blunt attack has 3 try bonus points.