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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:46 pm 
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Flametop wrote:
WRT Best, it’s amazing that each time a player has a birthday he gets one year older.
There are some things that a coach can plan for and others are not.

Not making succession plan for a player and captain reaching 37 before a RWC is one of the most obvious mistakes that Joe has made.
You can argue all you like about nobody else putting their hand up properly but nobody has been given a proper chance. Cronin has been poorly man managed.
The bottom line is that nobody can play worse than Best has been playing for quite some time, so you might as well have backed a younger player a year or more ago.

Plenty of other players past their prime also.

Too much loyalty and the unintended consequences of central congrats.



Cronin isn't an international standard hooker. He simply cannot perform the basics of his position at the highest level. Whatever his other qualities as a rugby player, both Scannell and Herring are better hookers than him.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:52 pm 
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Scannell had that injury a year or 18 months ago and hasnt quite hit the same heights. Prior to that I think he was well on course to displace Best.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:04 pm 
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DiscoHips D'Arcy wrote:
Scannell had that injury a year or 18 months ago and hasnt quite hit the same heights. Prior to that I think he was well on course to displace Best.


Yeah, that's fair I think. We have had our share of injuries disrupting things - as have others.

The one which has long wrecked my head in terms of the why the feck have we not pulled the screen around a long time ago, is Kearney. We have had options but between selection and injuries we have contrived not to bed them in. We've halfarsed it and returned to the safe option too often. Sadly, I think I'm forced to accept that POM is now in that bracket.

They can drag our the odd big one, oppo-dependant, but really folks, we are all looking at the same evidence. :blush:

Being held on to primarily because we've not PROPERLY blooded the next generation of leaders. They are being picked because they are experienced.

Rephrase it, starkly:

They are being picked because they are old. And age brings its own limitations.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:18 pm 
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Hellraiser wrote:
I see Jake thinks he's being clever changing the name of the thread.


What a strange thing to do, eh? Such a creepy cunt is Jake


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:33 pm 
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Conan to 8. Stander to 6. Brief Stander to tackle himself to a standstill and hit shit. Rotate Stander and Ruddock in that role, keeping both fresh and edgy. Flog Conan at 8.

Pray decades to the blessed virgin Mary, in the mosque in Clonskeagh if we have to, to ensure VDF stays healthy.

That would go a long way to sorting back row balance. What's in front of them is another matter.

I go quite literally Anyone But Best/Cronin at 2 and that is fcuking sad, especially for Bestie, but he's done.

Props I'll leave to better qualified to judge. Except one of them shouldn't be Jack McGrath, sadly.

Second rows. Christ. By now we really ought to have found a way past needing Toner, but we have not. Kleyn might be an answer but it'll be for a different coach than Joe. Just too soon/too late for this RWC. Whatever the role for Henderson, it cannot be one which requires him to get out of bed in the morning and think as well.

I'd prefer halves to be Murray and McGrath but howsever.

Tens. It should be Carbery with Jonny the steady the ship off the bench option, minimising stress on his ageing frame as he winds down, but we're so far away from that that it doesn't bear thinking about. Just a clusterfcuk. Not, TBF, for want of effort from Joe, Nucifora and assorted backrooms.

I'd have Farrell in the centre rather than Aki. Ringrose needs a kick in the hole. Playing Farrell at thirteen might be that kick.

Conway at FB. Any day of any week of any of the last two years for me. Earls on one wing and Larmour on the other.

I think it's pretty clear his own teammates have limited trust in Stockdale's defence. Compounded by Kearney's continuing presence. When teams run at us, we are shitting the bed. You might carry one weak defender - might - but two; Jaysus no. Which means alarm bells go off FAR too often in our midfield. Maybe it's the system they don't trust/believe in. Either way it screams no trust/belief and if this is not fixed PDQ we could be staring at the worst group performance ever by an Irish side.

I actually think our back row and defence issues can be resolved given the existing squad personnel.

We've run out of time to expect much attacking systems wise to change however.

Which is a shame, because of these personnel changes had been made and committed to sooner, then we could be refining a much more fluid attacking game by now.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:36 pm 
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Jumper wrote:
That performance was worse that anything under Kidney including the 60-0 against the All Blacks.

60-0 was the worst Irish performance I have ever witnessed, along with the twickenham game in 2011 or whenever when Ross cried off injured after 5 minutes. :thumbdown:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:37 pm 
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Agree with pretty much all of that but it’s not gonna happen. Joe has made his bed


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:38 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Flametop wrote:
That was a complete systems failure but especially so in defence.
It appears that we are implementing a rush-drift defence.
The inside backs are rushing up (often off first phase) to double tackle leaving overlaps and dog legs out wide.

We have learned nothing in the last four years about defending too narrowly.
Yesterday was like the 2015 Argentina match but worse.
Couldn’t even blame Stockdale or Larmour for biting in this time.
They were often marking four players on their own.

We should be pushing the big runners back infield towards traffic and our forwards.
Instead we are pushing them out towards our smaller backs and leaving them with tons of space to run full tilt at them.

Andy Farrell will be a disaster if allowed to become head coach.

Yes and no, it does feel like we might be changing our defensive set up (we surely have to be - as yesterday was nothing) but even at that you would still bring linespeed.

Even simple things, for their first try we have left Larmour defending a blindside for no reason (you have the (9/6/8) and their winger was in. So he has to sprint and has no hope of stopping Cokansinga. In reality he should be lined up either in the 10 channel or behind the 10 as a 2nd layer before 15

Then on his 2nd try, it is just a simple pull back to blindside winger, it wasn’t even particularly well disguised, the screen over ran it.

Basic rugby stuff...3 tries off first phase


I think the reason Larmour and Murray moved towards the blindside initially was because Billy V shaped to carry blind before passing the other way.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:46 pm 
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First try Murray also went blindside and couldn't then sweep.

Third try May had rendered Murray hors de combat, so again we had no sweeper.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:49 pm 
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Not sure there's much to be done about Best but hope for the best. Cronin's got the same throwing issues and doesn't have the tight game to prosper in Schmidt's gameplan. Scannell could be an option but seems to doubt himself quite a lot, which isn't what you need in a team lacking confidence. Herring? Maybe, I dunno.

It's not just the hooker, obviously. There's never been the same deception and movement to get jumpers up unopposed (which takes pressure off the hooker) since Plumtree left.

I think they should look to get the ball in quickly, so there's not time for the hooker to overthink.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:59 pm 
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It's one thing to know how critical Murray sweeping is to our defence , another to be quick and accurate enough to exploit it when he's absent, or luckily or deliberately taken out of the next phase.

The core of the defence problems are more simple. Arguably your best defender one on one should be your FB. It is not arguable IMHO that he shouldn't at very least be one of your best. And if the ball is put in the air and the only decision Snr has to make is to catch it before it bounces or an oppo gets to it; or not, then all is right with this world.

Shit starts to unravel when Snr is faced with more than one decision to make and little time to process. I'm being kind.

He is a roaring liability unless it's aerial bombardment time.

The smartest thing Eddie Jones has done ever for England in an Irish context, was to roll out the aerial guns in Kearney's absence last 6N. Bought Kearney his RWC ticket and now he will be mercilessly targeted on the ground.

Drop him. Get it fcuking done already.


Last edited by redderneck on Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:01 pm 
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RichieRich89 wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Flametop wrote:
That was a complete systems failure but especially so in defence.
It appears that we are implementing a rush-drift defence.
The inside backs are rushing up (often off first phase) to double tackle leaving overlaps and dog legs out wide.

We have learned nothing in the last four years about defending too narrowly.
Yesterday was like the 2015 Argentina match but worse.
Couldn’t even blame Stockdale or Larmour for biting in this time.
They were often marking four players on their own.

We should be pushing the big runners back infield towards traffic and our forwards.
Instead we are pushing them out towards our smaller backs and leaving them with tons of space to run full tilt at them.

Andy Farrell will be a disaster if allowed to become head coach.

Yes and no, it does feel like we might be changing our defensive set up (we surely have to be - as yesterday was nothing) but even at that you would still bring linespeed.

Even simple things, for their first try we have left Larmour defending a blindside for no reason (you have the (9/6/8) and their winger was in. So he has to sprint and has no hope of stopping Cokansinga. In reality he should be lined up either in the 10 channel or behind the 10 as a 2nd layer before 15

Then on his 2nd try, it is just a simple pull back to blindside winger, it wasn’t even particularly well disguised, the screen over ran it.

Basic rugby stuff...3 tries off first phase


I think the reason Larmour and Murray moved towards the blindside initially was because Billy V shaped to carry blind before passing the other way.

Irrelevant what Vunipola did or didn't do. The set up was wrong. On a blindside that narrow

If 9 is going to put pressure on 8/9 and stay blindside (not whip after put in), then blind side winger lines up near 10 channel.
9/6/8 cover off in a step trio that as you are numbers equal and the blindside winger can cover flag to his corner if needs be. May was lined up near their 12. Larmour is a non functioning defender there.

Regardless getting beaten off first phase with nothing more than a screen and loop is shite.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:02 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
First try Murray also went blindside and couldn't then sweep.

Third try May had rendered Murray hors de combat, so again we had no sweeper.

Correct... Murray should hold blindside there.

Larmour has no business lining up there with his winger in open field and the narrowness of the blindside.

Basic stuff


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:04 pm 
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redder

Going forward, your post is pretty much spot on bar some minor quibbles. However, Sexton is absolutely vital for the WC. He's our only chance of the backline being fixed because his reading of the game and his ability to communicate same is second to none in the current squad. It'd be great if someone else could provide an option or the rest of the team were able to compensate but that's where we're at.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:09 pm 
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Willie Falloon wrote:
Jumper wrote:
That performance was worse that anything under Kidney including the 60-0 against the All Blacks.

60-0 was the worst Irish performance I have ever witnessed, along with the twickenham game in 2011 or whenever when Ross cried off injured after 5 minutes. :thumbdown:

:lol:

Been a while since we had the "Ross dropped Court in the shit".


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:11 pm 
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Given the 6 nations and now yesterdays match, I think Joe has lost the dressing room.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:15 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
EverReady wrote:
I see we have moved seamlessly into the 'well I think we are going to win you negative cünts' phase. I would like it noted I still think we will lose maybe even to Russia


Correctomondo. Big reality check coming tomorrow. Ross Byrne and Kleyn :lol: we are so f**ked. Even after the inevitable drubbing tomorrow the blatantly obvious will still elude the faithful on here. It’s heart breaking but it’s a big of comedy on here every 4 years at least


Pages 9807-9809 make for great comedy reading if anyone needs cheering up


We were so right 8) Not that I am going to lord it over people


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
First try Murray also went blindside and couldn't then sweep.

Third try May had rendered Murray hors de combat, so again we had no sweeper.

Correct... Murray should hold blindside there.

Larmour has no business lining up there with his winger in open field and the narrowness of the blindside.

Basic stuff


Larmour has a long way to go - at the moment he’s still a player in development


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:21 pm 
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Stone wrote:
Given the 6 nations and now yesterdays match, I think Joe has lost the dressing room.


:lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:24 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
redder

Going forward, your post is pretty much spot on bar some minor quibbles. However, Sexton is absolutely vital for the WC. He's our only chance of the backline being fixed because his reading of the game and his ability to communicate same is second to none in the current squad. It'd be great if someone else could provide an option or the rest of the team were able to compensate but that's where we're at.


Couple of points here.

Firstly never say the words “going forward” ever again

Secondly sexton is the boss and he scares the young lads Roy Keane style. While carbs is now a better outhalf the team has been made around sexton so this close to a World Cup we are stuck with him. Murray was poor yesterday which was worrying. Also miscommunication leading to him getting back on the pitch :lol: gimme a break it was a disgrace


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:26 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
First try Murray also went blindside and couldn't then sweep.

Third try May had rendered Murray hors de combat, so again we had no sweeper.

Correct... Murray should hold blindside there.

Larmour has no business lining up there with his winger in open field and the narrowness of the blindside.

Basic stuff


Larmour has a long way to go - at the moment he’s still a player in development

For sure and his level of attacking talent is quality. But this was under 18 blindside wing defence stuff

No one in front of me, the 9 can take the 8. Move out


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:26 pm 
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alliswell wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
The Toner/Hendo debate has been completely divorced from reality. Hendo was one of the only forwards who gave England any bother and produced two turnovers in the first 20. The lineout continued to deteriorate when Toner came in. He just can’t compete in contact with those English forwards, he gets folded over and he can’t blow them out of a ruck.

It's not really. Toner not starting correlates with our bigger lineout malfunctions. We know what Henderson brings and we know what Toner brings. We need the lineout to function and Toner can usually compensate for his relative lack of physicality pretty well.


Toner started against Italy and the first throw nearly hit him in the forehead, he collapsed into two rucks and got absolutely smoked for one of their linebreaks. He came on yesterday and achieved precisely nothing.

The lineout problems are obviously way beyond personnel now anyway because England and Wales have it on toast every time. England were so confident of their reading of the calls that they were regularly getting their jumpers up before ours, on our ball.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:27 pm 
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Stone wrote:
Given the 6 nations and now yesterdays match, I think Joe has lost the dressing room.

Nonsense

I do fear a little we are nearly too pre programmed and nearly afraid to act on instinct in attack and d.

A win next week with a better performance can hopefully loosen up the pressure


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:31 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
First try Murray also went blindside and couldn't then sweep.

Third try May had rendered Murray hors de combat, so again we had no sweeper.

Correct... Murray should hold blindside there.

Larmour has no business lining up there with his winger in open field and the narrowness of the blindside.

Basic stuff


Larmour has a long way to go - at the moment he’s still a player in development

For sure and his level of attacking talent is quality. But this was under 18 blindside wing defence stuff

No one in front of me, the 9 can take the 8. Move out


He hasn’t really done the business yet. He runs sideways a lot. We just lack pace so we see him and cream ourselves but really he’s like a 7’s player out there. He’ll need a lot of work to become a test level back 3 player


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:49 pm 
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Location: Over the hills and far away...
I was thinking of the positives - first proper run out for most guys against a very tough team, peak planned for 4 weeks' time etc. Obviously Sexton hasn't played yet - fingers crossed he's finding some form at least on the training field.


Comments about lack of options are fair, whether they were due to injuries or coaches' conservatism.
One of the places where we do have a bit of depth is the backrow, though obviously SOB and Leavy out has hurt that. But we have options here, and hopefully yesterday's defeat will put on the pressure here at least. POM has a higher ceiling than Ruddock, but he only reaches 100% once every 5 or 6 matches or so and barely makes 50% in the other matches, whereas Ruddock will never dip below 75%.

Not sure what the issues are with Stander, but he's lost all impact as a sole carrier in the backrow. We should see him in combination with either Ruddock or Conan to see if we can solve this.

On the pessimistic side: if Best and Cronin after 15-20 years of playing hooker and throwing line-outs still haven't worked out how to throw a straight ball, there's no point hoping they'll manage it in 4 weeks. Putting Toner in stiletto boots won't help them if they throw it directly to the opposition. Though perhaps as they were so bad, it was a ruse?? :uhoh:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
CM11 wrote:
redder

Going forward, your post is pretty much spot on bar some minor quibbles. However, Sexton is absolutely vital for the WC. He's our only chance of the backline being fixed because his reading of the game and his ability to communicate same is second to none in the current squad. It'd be great if someone else could provide an option or the rest of the team were able to compensate but that's where we're at.


Couple of points here.

Firstly never say the words “going forward” ever again

Secondly sexton is the boss and he scares the young lads Roy Keane style. While carbs is now a better outhalf the team has been made around sexton so this close to a World Cup we are stuck with him. Murray was poor yesterday which was worrying. Also miscommunication leading to him getting back on the pitch :lol: gimme a break it was a disgrace


No and glad you agree. :P


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:25 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
alliswell wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
The Toner/Hendo debate has been completely divorced from reality. Hendo was one of the only forwards who gave England any bother and produced two turnovers in the first 20. The lineout continued to deteriorate when Toner came in. He just can’t compete in contact with those English forwards, he gets folded over and he can’t blow them out of a ruck.

It's not really. Toner not starting correlates with our bigger lineout malfunctions. We know what Henderson brings and we know what Toner brings. We need the lineout to function and Toner can usually compensate for his relative lack of physicality pretty well.


Toner started against Italy and the first throw nearly hit him in the forehead, he collapsed into two rucks and got absolutely smoked for one of their linebreaks. He came on yesterday and achieved precisely nothing.

The lineout problems are obviously way beyond personnel now anyway because England and Wales have it on toast every time. England were so confident of their reading of the calls that they were regularly getting their jumpers up before ours, on our ball.

In the recent Italy game we won 9 and lost 1 lineout. Without Toner in the six nations we won 15 and lost 5.
Against England in the 6 nations we won 11, lost 1.
Yesterday we won 10, lost 5.
Against Wales in the 6 nations we won 15, lost 2.
These number don't tally with that statement.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:32 pm 
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alliswell wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
alliswell wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
The Toner/Hendo debate has been completely divorced from reality. Hendo was one of the only forwards who gave England any bother and produced two turnovers in the first 20. The lineout continued to deteriorate when Toner came in. He just can’t compete in contact with those English forwards, he gets folded over and he can’t blow them out of a ruck.

It's not really. Toner not starting correlates with our bigger lineout malfunctions. We know what Henderson brings and we know what Toner brings. We need the lineout to function and Toner can usually compensate for his relative lack of physicality pretty well.


Toner started against Italy and the first throw nearly hit him in the forehead, he collapsed into two rucks and got absolutely smoked for one of their linebreaks. He came on yesterday and achieved precisely nothing.

The lineout problems are obviously way beyond personnel now anyway because England and Wales have it on toast every time. England were so confident of their reading of the calls that they were regularly getting their jumpers up before ours, on our ball.

In the recent Italy game we won 9 and lost 1 lineout. Without Toner in the six nations we won 15 and lost 5.
Against England in the 6 nations we won 11, lost 1.
Yesterday we won 10, lost 5.
Against Wales in the 6 nations we won 15, lost 2.
These number don't tally with that statement.


These numbers don’t tally with much, because a considerable amount of ‘won’ ball is scrappy or slapped back in the general direction of 9.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:33 pm 
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Why throw long?

That’s what confused me. 5 six nations Games and yesterday we can’t control our own line out. But we repeatedly throw long. At key defensive line outs. And in great attacking positions. Long Fail. Long Fail. On and on. FFS.

My irish team would be

Healy, Scannell, Furlong
Ryan, Toner,
Beirne/Ruddock/ Conan/JVDF

Marmion, Sexton, earls, Farrell, Ringrose, Conway, Carbery


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:36 pm 
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I would be checking for bugs in the telephone as Itoje looked like he knew our calls. He was imperious


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:42 pm 
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We should forget about tweaking the attack, it's too late. The concern is the defense. Wales won the grand slam scoring just 10 tries. Defense is going to win this World Cup and right now ours is looking every bit as headless as the 2015 QF.

Last year our defense was the envy of the world and we kept the ABs try less. If we can get back to close that level, fix the line out and dominate possession like before we'll be no worse than last year, our attack wasn't great then and it didn't need to be.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:45 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
alliswell wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
alliswell wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
The Toner/Hendo debate has been completely divorced from reality. Hendo was one of the only forwards who gave England any bother and produced two turnovers in the first 20. The lineout continued to deteriorate when Toner came in. He just can’t compete in contact with those English forwards, he gets folded over and he can’t blow them out of a ruck.

It's not really. Toner not starting correlates with our bigger lineout malfunctions. We know what Henderson brings and we know what Toner brings. We need the lineout to function and Toner can usually compensate for his relative lack of physicality pretty well.


Toner started against Italy and the first throw nearly hit him in the forehead, he collapsed into two rucks and got absolutely smoked for one of their linebreaks. He came on yesterday and achieved precisely nothing.

The lineout problems are obviously way beyond personnel now anyway because England and Wales have it on toast every time. England were so confident of their reading of the calls that they were regularly getting their jumpers up before ours, on our ball.

In the recent Italy game we won 9 and lost 1 lineout. Without Toner in the six nations we won 15 and lost 5.
Against England in the 6 nations we won 11, lost 1.
Yesterday we won 10, lost 5.
Against Wales in the 6 nations we won 15, lost 2.
These number don't tally with that statement.


These numbers don’t tally with much, because a considerable amount of ‘won’ ball is scrappy or slapped back in the general direction of 9.

Interestingly in Henderson's last 4 starts the % lineouts won are 67% against England, 94% against France, 75% against the USA and 77% against Argentina.
You can't deny that our lineout is significantly better with Toner in it. Sure we can discuss the weaknesses in the rest of his play but you have to acknowledge his obvious advantages.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:47 pm 
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Irish wrote:
Why throw long?

That’s what confused me. 5 six nations Games and yesterday we can’t control our own line out. But we repeatedly throw long. At key defensive line outs. And in great attacking positions. Long Fail. Long Fail. On and on. FFS.

My irish team would be

Healy, Scannell, Furlong
Ryan, Toner,
Beirne/Ruddock/ Conan/JVDF

Marmion, Sexton, earls, Farrell, Ringrose, Conway, Carbery


England had a backrow that couldn’t jump so it made sense on paper but yes if you can’t f**king do it just stop


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:16 pm 
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Interestingly, Toner has played in 2 matches this season and the best argument anyone can make for his inclusion is that he might possibly shore up the lineout somehow, even if he will be bang average at everything else.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:17 pm 
It's not really. Toner not starting correlates with our bigger lineout malfunctions. We know what Henderson brings and we know what Toner brings. We need the lineout to function and Toner can usually compensate for his relative lack of physicality pretty well.[/quote]

Toner started against Italy and the first throw nearly hit him in the forehead, he collapsed into two rucks and got absolutely smoked for one of their linebreaks. He came on yesterday and achieved precisely nothing.

The lineout problems are obviously way beyond personnel now anyway because England and Wales have it on toast every time. England were so confident of their reading of the calls that they were regularly getting their jumpers up before ours, on our ball.[/quote]
In the recent Italy game we won 9 and lost 1 lineout. Without Toner in the six nations we won 15 and lost 5.
Against England in the 6 nations we won 11, lost 1.
Yesterday we won 10, lost 5.
Against Wales in the 6 nations we won 15, lost 2.
These number don't tally with that statement.[/quote]

These numbers don’t tally with much, because a considerable amount of ‘won’ ball is scrappy or slapped back in the general direction of 9.[/quote]
Interestingly in Henderson's last 4 starts the % lineouts won are 67% against England, 94% against France, 75% against the USA and 77% against Argentina.
You can't deny that our lineout is significantly better with Toner in it. Sure we can discuss the weaknesses in the rest of his play but you have to acknowledge his obvious advantages.[/quote]

Yes he is a tall plum. Great stuff.
How did we survive before him. Lads still managed to catch a ball. He has been too much of a comfort blanket for best.
The lineout isnt just about toner.
Whats easterby at?
Its hilarious seeing the excuses about how we are just trying to peak for 4 weeks time. What a load of bollix. Will you people ever learn.
I still refer back to the 07 wc and argentinas warm up games. They played a belgium select for fudge sake.
Schmidts conservative gameplan has been found out. Just like it had for EOS and Kidney.
I blame the IRFU. Win at all costs. Money, money , money.
We should start using these WC's as a building exercise for the 6 nations. Thats where the irfu earn the money.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:21 pm 
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The Ulster lads and Toner :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:23 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
The Ulster lads and Toner :lol:


Leinster lads watching him get folded in two every carry and still wanting him picked anyway :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:25 pm 
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Yeah. It’s the craziness of not throwing to 2 in the lineout , when it’s in bits. just to secure it.

Ireland have a maul. We should use it.

Anyway things can only get better.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:26 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
danthefan wrote:
The Ulster lads and Toner :lol:


Leinster lads watching him get folded in two every carry and still wanting him picked anyway :lol:


Silly. Just silly. Now is when we should be pulling together one nation walking toget...nah


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:28 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
Interestingly, Toner has played in 2 matches this season and the best argument anyone can make for his inclusion is that he might possibly shore up the lineout somehow, even if he will be bang average at everything else.

Eh, he will shore up the lineout. That's why he gets selected. It's really odd that you won't even acknowledge that. I admit the rest of his game is fairly middle of the road.


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