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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:28 pm 
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alliswell wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
Interestingly, Toner has played in 2 matches this season and the best argument anyone can make for his inclusion is that he might possibly shore up the lineout somehow, even if he will be bang average at everything else.

Eh, he will shore up the lineout. That's why he gets selected. It's really odd that you won't even acknowledge that. I admit the rest of his game is fairly middle of the road.


How did the shoring up process go yesterday?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:35 pm 
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Didn't see the match yesterday, after seeing the score avoided the highlights... stupidly opened this thread and read some of it... some amount of spoofers in this thread, especially the ones who never played rugby :lol: :lol: :lol: :nod:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:35 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
alliswell wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
Interestingly, Toner has played in 2 matches this season and the best argument anyone can make for his inclusion is that he might possibly shore up the lineout somehow, even if he will be bang average at everything else.

Eh, he will shore up the lineout. That's why he gets selected. It's really odd that you won't even acknowledge that. I admit the rest of his game is fairly middle of the road.


How did the shoring up process go yesterday?

Yeah there isn't much point in having him on the bench.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:36 pm 
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Toner doesn't always shore up recieving throwing quite as much as made out. It's the maul where he's really felt.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:49 pm 
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Hellraiser wrote:
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WRT Best, it’s amazing that each time a player has a birthday he gets one year older.
There are some things that a coach can plan for and others are not.

Not making succession plan for a player and captain reaching 37 before a RWC is one of the most obvious mistakes that Joe has made.
You can argue all you like about nobody else putting their hand up properly but nobody has been given a proper chance. Cronin has been poorly man managed.
The bottom line is that nobody can play worse than Best has been playing for quite some time, so you might as well have backed a younger player a year or more ago.

Plenty of other players past their prime also.

Too much loyalty and the unintended consequences of central congrats.



Cronin isn't an international standard hooker. He simply cannot perform the basics of his position at the highest level. Whatever his other qualities as a rugby player, both Scannell and Herring are better hookers than him.

Scannell and Herring are plodders. Not the answer at all.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:54 pm 
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redderneck wrote:
Conan to 8. Stander to 6. Brief Stander to tackle himself to a standstill and hit shit. Rotate Stander and Ruddock in that role, keeping both fresh and edgy. Flog Conan at 8.

Pray decades to the blessed virgin Mary, in the mosque in Clonskeagh if we have to, to ensure VDF stays healthy.

That would go a long way to sorting back row balance. What's in front of them is another matter.

I go quite literally Anyone But Best/Cronin at 2 and that is fcuking sad, especially for Bestie, but he's done.

Props I'll leave to better qualified to judge. Except one of them shouldn't be Jack McGrath, sadly.

Second rows. Christ. By now we really ought to have found a way past needing Toner, but we have not. Kleyn might be an answer but it'll be for a different coach than Joe. Just too soon/too late for this RWC. Whatever the role for Henderson, it cannot be one which requires him to get out of bed in the morning and think as well.

I'd prefer halves to be Murray and McGrath but howsever.

Tens. It should be Carbery with Jonny the steady the ship off the bench option, minimising stress on his ageing frame as he winds down, but we're so far away from that that it doesn't bear thinking about. Just a clusterfcuk. Not, TBF, for want of effort from Joe, Nucifora and assorted backrooms.

I'd have Farrell in the centre rather than Aki. Ringrose needs a kick in the hole. Playing Farrell at thirteen might be that kick.

Conway at FB. Any day of any week of any of the last two years for me. Earls on one wing and Larmour on the other.

I think it's pretty clear his own teammates have limited trust in Stockdale's defence. Compounded by Kearney's continuing presence. When teams run at us, we are shitting the bed. You might carry one weak defender - might - but two; Jaysus no. Which means alarm bells go off FAR too often in our midfield. Maybe it's the system they don't trust/believe in. Either way it screams no trust/belief and if this is not fixed PDQ we could be staring at the worst group performance ever by an Irish side.

I actually think our back row and defence issues can be resolved given the existing squad personnel.

We've run out of time to expect much attacking systems wise to change however.

Which is a shame, because of these personnel changes had been made and committed to sooner, then we could be refining a much more fluid attacking game by now.

Stander for POM! Jesus wept. Stander was one of the few more anonymous than 1 tackle Pete yesterday. Also did you see the lineout? If you want that to improve you'll need lineout forwards. If anyone comes in for POM it'll be Beirne or possibly Ruddock.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:09 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
danthefan wrote:
The Ulster lads and Toner :lol:


Leinster lads watching him get folded in two every carry and still wanting him picked anyway :lol:


I suppose with Henderson calling and Best throwing yesterday you have to go on the attack, no choice really. Good effort.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:13 pm 
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I prefer "Tackle of the Year" O'Mahoney to One Tackle Pete, gotta say.

Kleyn isn't worth the poach cap, regardless of coach.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:16 pm 
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hermie wrote:
Hellraiser wrote:
Flametop wrote:
WRT Best, it’s amazing that each time a player has a birthday he gets one year older.
There are some things that a coach can plan for and others are not.

Not making succession plan for a player and captain reaching 37 before a RWC is one of the most obvious mistakes that Joe has made.
You can argue all you like about nobody else putting their hand up properly but nobody has been given a proper chance. Cronin has been poorly man managed.
The bottom line is that nobody can play worse than Best has been playing for quite some time, so you might as well have backed a younger player a year or more ago.

Plenty of other players past their prime also.

Too much loyalty and the unintended consequences of central congrats.



Cronin isn't an international standard hooker. He simply cannot perform the basics of his position at the highest level. Whatever his other qualities as a rugby player, both Scannell and Herring are better hookers than him.

Scannell and Herring are plodders. Not the answer at all.

Scannell could have been something, Herring has never had it to be Best's replacement.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:20 pm 
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https://twitter.com/Teddybreath/status/ ... 79808?s=19


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:21 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
https://twitter.com/Teddybreath/status/1165510604620279808?s=19


Fair. It was filthy


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:24 pm 
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Munster U19 14-49 Leinster U19

Leinster U18 Clubs 31 Ulster U18 Clubs 12
Munster U18 Clubs 36 Connacht 10
Ulster U18 schools 48 IQ Rugby 10


Last edited by irishrugbyua on Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:25 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
danthefan wrote:
https://twitter.com/Teddybreath/status/1165510604620279808?s=19


Fair. It was filthy


A citing could be just the catalyst we need to get Conway into the 15 jersey


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:35 pm 
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CARDIFF BLUES ‘A’ 28 LEINSTER RUGBY ‘A’ 47

TRIES: Dan Sheehan, Cormac Foley 3, Liam Turner, Penalty try, Jack Kelly; CONS: Conor Kelly 5, Pen try con


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:36 pm 
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CANADA 35 LEINSTER RUGBY 38

TRIES: Max Deegan 3, Bryan Byrne, Josh Murphy, Hugo Keenan; CONS: Ciaran Frawley 2, Harry Byrne 2


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:38 pm 
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Beating countries and all. Joe should be calling up Max Deegan


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:40 pm 
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irishrugbyua wrote:
CANADA 35 LEINSTER RUGBY 38

TRIES: Max Deegan 3, Bryan Byrne, Josh Murphy, Hugo Keenan; CONS: Ciaran Frawley 2, Harry Byrne 2


Was good craic that match.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:53 pm 
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EverReady wrote:
Beating countries and all. Joe should be calling up Max Deegan


Best result Leinster have ever had against an international side :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:54 pm 
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sewa wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Beating countries and all. Joe should be calling up Max Deegan


Best result Leinster have ever had against an international side :thumbup:


We should get Roddy Doyle to write a shite play and maybe an opera


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:55 pm 
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Was in at that Leinster and Munster U19s game. My word were Leinster clinical.

Very impressive.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:01 pm 
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EverReady wrote:
sewa wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Beating countries and all. Joe should be calling up Max Deegan


Best result Leinster have ever had against an international side :thumbup:


We should get Roddy Doyle to write a shite play and maybe an opera

Don't think Canada A is quiet at that level mate


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:05 pm 
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sewa wrote:
EverReady wrote:
sewa wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Beating countries and all. Joe should be calling up Max Deegan


Best result Leinster have ever had against an international side :thumbup:


We should get Roddy Doyle to write a shite play and maybe an opera

Don't think Canada A is quiet at that level mate


Rugby was for spackers in the 70's. The Munster lad who made that Guinness ad tackle looks like Jimmy Savilles agent


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:11 pm 
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Here sewa I think this is footage of that savage Kiwi team

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:24 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
https://twitter.com/Teddybreath/status/1165510604620279808?s=19


That’s absolutely filthy.
He should cop a long ban for that.
Our luck might have changed.
Joe is going to be forced to pick a better player at 15

I tell you, we are going to win the RWC.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:24 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
I think the biggest concern for me is not the score line, obviously its manure, but I am not fully buying the “they are match sharp” its a factor but should have seen us burn out from 60 min on and if anything they had two physical games and we should be that bit fresher.

Notwithstanding these aren’t systems errors, just raw rugby errors. 34 missed tackles,unable to read a screen pass inbehind to a blindside winger, constant soak tackles.

It’s not the apocalypse but our lack of go forward in the Backrow is central to everything , have to look at Conan/Ruddock as a first choice or at least see what Beirne can do at 6 from the off, cause if we cant slow teams down, and we aren’t doing that, then we are in trouble too

Re the centers, and not trying to stir it, but Ringrose has been pretty bitty all year, needs a big game or two to steady the ship.

There's too many guys playing shit. Buck stops at the top.

That was an Italy level performance.
Seven of that starting team featured in a Heineken cup final. Another four in the semi final. They should be capable of better.
They should not be playing like Italy FFS.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:33 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
https://twitter.com/Teddybreath/status/1165510604620279808?s=19


Nothing in that


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:38 pm 
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EverReady wrote:
sewa wrote:
EverReady wrote:
sewa wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Beating countries and all. Joe should be calling up Max Deegan


Best result Leinster have ever had against an international side :thumbup:


We should get Roddy Doyle to write a shite play and maybe an opera

Don't think Canada A is quiet at that level mate


Rugby was for spackers in the 70's. The Munster lad who made that Guinness ad tackle looks like Jimmy Savilles agent

We beat Oz and lost to the All Blacks by a kick in the last decade. I don't think there is a play though


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:39 pm 
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I remember. You had that many islanders they had their own haka


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:40 pm 
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Ruddock and Conan have to start.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:47 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Ruddock and Conan have to start.


Of course they do ..... plus a few more, including Conway, Earls, Farrell/Henshaw, Scanell/Herring, Sexton and Ryan.

That’s at least 8 tactical changes, plus we’ll need porter/kilcoyne in place of the injured Healey too


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:54 pm 
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While it’s disspaointing to see such a poor performance, getting truly blown out like that might be better than a scrappy 15 point loss.
There’ll be no illusion in camp as to how far behind they are and the level they have to reach. England are favorites to win the comp imo, so better to experience that humiliation now, and not in a months time.

England ruthlessly exposed things that Schmidt must be already aware of. I pray he realizes that loyalty to certain players won’t get him the results. He must know now that the 2019 six nations is not just s blip for certain payers, and they won’t turn it around for the rwc.
He must know now that continueing to pick best will lead to more disasters at the line out, picking Pom and stander will result in us getting blown away at the breakdown.


Schmidt needs to take a leaf out of gatlands book: Time to be ruthless.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:55 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Ruddock and Conan have to start.

Absolutely, leave as many of the Munster lads out of this disaster as possible. As the only competent hooker Scannell could end up going :((


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:57 pm 
camroc1 wrote:
Ruddock and Conan have to start.


Conan maybe. Ruddock is overrated. For a lad his size. Should be doin alot more.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:57 pm 
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Irish wrote:
Yeah. It’s the craziness of not throwing to 2 in the lineout , when it’s in bits. just to secure it.

Ireland have a maul. We should use it.

Anyway things can only get better.


POM is as good a jumper at 2 as anyone in the world. His speed into the air guarantees ball at the front.

The issue is that Henderson continually calls a terrible lineout for Ireland. When things start to go wrong with the throwing - as often happens with Best - Henderson looks to fix things by making more complex calls with more moving parts and longer throws. Expectedly, things then go from bad to worse and the setpiece completely falls apart.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:05 pm 
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I do wonder if there's a tendency to go for players who make an "impact." Not solid, industrious players doing the work. POM and Stander have, in the past, made big marks on games, but they've been given the freedom to do so either by the players around them, by playing at lower levels where dazzle can make a difference, or against poorer opposition at international level where there's a lower intensity game.

It's obvious from comments you see after games that viewers notice the parts of the game where something is changed, a big run, a big turnover. Absent of that, even when the stats show the impact someone has had, people often deny their effect on the game because there was no flash from them. Joe seems to be sticking with players who are solid in certain positions that need the flash, while going with the occasionally flashy players where the solidity is needed. He's looking for a basic grinding game, but filling the positions where that game can be implemented and exploited backwards in what's necessary.

It's like we haven't fulfilled the basic necessities to grind out the game before going for the killer blow. No amount of grinding out in the 22 as practice can make up for the lack of balance.


Last edited by CarrotGawks on Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:06 pm 
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rageagainstthemachine wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Ruddock and Conan have to start.


Conan maybe. Ruddock is overrated. For a lad his size. Should be doin alot more.


More than 1 tackle?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:16 pm 
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boringperson12 wrote:
Didn't see the match yesterday, after seeing the score avoided the highlights... stupidly opened this thread and read some of it... some amount of spoofers in this thread, especially the ones who never played rugby :lol: :lol: :lol: :nod:


I played loads of rugby, I also watched the game. Stop being a moron


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:23 pm 
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sewa wrote:
boringperson12 wrote:
Didn't see the match yesterday, after seeing the score avoided the highlights... stupidly opened this thread and read some of it... some amount of spoofers in this thread, especially the ones who never played rugby :lol: :lol: :lol: :nod:


I played loads of rugby, I also watched the game. Stop being a moron


The spoofers are the people who watch matches because if you played rugby you can intuit all possibilities of a game through the cosmic strings that tie your mud-stained shorts together.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:23 pm 
danthefan wrote:
rageagainstthemachine wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Ruddock and Conan have to start.


Conan maybe. Ruddock is overrated. For a lad his size. Should be doin alot more.


More than 1 tackle?


That 1 tackle wont go away will it. Im talking going forward. Ruddock should be doing alot more for a lad his size in attack. No where near a ferris, walliace type player.
Our backrow stocks have went to shit since wally/ ferris/leamy/ heaslip/obrien etc. Vdf is nowhere near their level. And ive never rated POM. Tough bollix no doubt but i wouldnt have him up there with our top backrows over the years. same goes for stander.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
Interestingly, Toner has played in 2 matches this season and the best argument anyone can make for his inclusion is that he might possibly shore up the lineout somehow, even if he will be bang average at everything else.


He's below the rest of the guys in terms of dynamism and power, but he's far from bang average at it.


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