Planet Rugby Forum

Will be interesting to see if Farrell brings a new approach to Ireland. We've been worked out and need something different. Cian Healy is the only player who is currently in their 30s I'd be keeping about the squad.

We peaked a year too early.

NZ were excellent and we couldn't live with them.

Hopefully Farrell is allowed build a new team now, in his own likeness.

Man am I glad I passed out and slept through that.

I know nothing other than we were hammered and I don't have the desire to watch it.

Depressing. Embarrassing end to a dreadful tournament.

camroc1 wrote:We peaked a year too early.

NZ were excellent and we couldn't live with them.

Hopefully Farrell is allowed build a new team now, in his own likeness.

It was his defence that got, I'm presuming based on the score, eviscerated out there.
I hope he gets an attack coach at least.

Jim Lahey wrote:

unseenwork wrote:You wonder what'll happen when Baloucoune comes back for Ulster, how sure Stockdale can be of his place with these defensive woes.

Ive hope for Stockdale moving to 15 at Ulster with Balacoune and Lyttle on the wings.

I don't think he has the decision making ability for it. He may develop more nous in time but I would be surprised. He's an instinctive finisher and a bloody good one - I think his best role is and will always be on the wing.

Floppykid wrote:

camroc1 wrote:We peaked a year too early.

NZ were excellent and we couldn't live with them.

Hopefully Farrell is allowed build a new team now, in his own likeness.

It was his defence that got, I'm presuming based on the score, eviscerated out there.
I hope he gets an attack coach at least.

The team just didn't fire against a Kiwi team that did from the first minute.

It's difficult to blame either defence or attack or individual players. We just didn't show up.

And I am prepared to give Farrell the benefit of the doubt until we see what HIS team does.

Mullet 2 wrote:I just don't know anymore.

I'm too depressed to see the future. But I stand by it, every position come February should so on current form.

Literally as long as I can remember it's been harder to get off this team than get on it.

It seems to be with every coach as well. Perhaps questions need to start being asked about the structures and influences around the head coaches because the same mistakes keep getting repeated.

Joe Schmidt played some of the most expansive and exciting rugby Europe has ever seen with Clermont and then Leinster. Gets the Irish job and immediately entrenches himself in dour, conservative and yes at times, effective selection and gameplay.

Fúck playing to our traditional strengths because 7 lost quarter finals say our strengths aren't good enough. It's time to try something else.

Jim Lahey wrote:

danthefan wrote:

Brian9848 wrote:Hansen also deserves a ton of credit. He had the balls to drop a 100 Test TH Owen Franks, then Reiko Ioane, arguably the best winger of 2018, and then move the best 10 in the game to full back and put complete newbies on the wing. Reece has only had one incomplete season of Super rugby.

All while we wring our hands about experience and he's the guy for the big game and you can't start Larmour and whatever else.

I called for Balcony Bob over Larmour before the game and got that one completely wrong, based on Bob being good in the air and being capable of producing a big performance. He did neither today (he was far from being the reason why we lost tbf) but Larmour looked like he might actually create something when he came on.

I was just using Larmour as an example. It was impossible for anyone to play themselves onto or off that team. That was the point I was trying to make.

camroc1 wrote:

Floppykid wrote:

camroc1 wrote:We peaked a year too early.

NZ were excellent and we couldn't live with them.

Hopefully Farrell is allowed build a new team now, in his own likeness.

It was his defence that got, I'm presuming based on the score, eviscerated out there.
I hope he gets an attack coach at least.

The team just didn't fire against a Kiwi team that did from the first minute.

It's difficult to blame either defence or attack or individual players. We just didn't show up.

And I am prepared to give Farrell the benefit of the doubt until we see what HIS team does.

I'm heavily skeptical but let's see how forward thinking and ruthless he is in selection.
Biggest stage, where everyone is going all out and Ireland get stomped out at the QF again. The tournament that really matters.
We've been outperformed by Japan at this one. Ah well.

How'd Ruddock and Larmour do when they got on?

We never even fired a shot. That's the worst part of it. I thought we had a decent chance of a win but result aside I was sure we would turn up and give it a serious lash...but we didn't...and that is f**king unforgivable.

Floppykid wrote:How'd Ruddock and Larmour do when they got on?

They made an impact, as did Killer and Carberry I thought. NZ had well and truly lost focus at that stage though in fairness.

Not convinced Earls was fit at all this tournament. Henshaw definitely should have been sent home based on his outings, wasn’t match fit at all.

Winnie wrote:

Brian9848 wrote:Hansen also deserves a ton of credit. He had the balls to drop a 100 Test TH Owen Franks, then Reiko Ioane, arguably the best winger of 2018, and then move the best 10 in the game to full back and put complete newbies on the wing. Reece has only had one incomplete season of Super rugby.

Amazing things happen when you dont have your undroppable favourites
Players play with a fear that if their performance is not up to the mark they dont get the shirt next week

I know we are all engaged in much needed venting, but then what explains the performances of our 12, 13.. the mistakes, the dropped balls, the defensive lapses given that they were the ones most unsure of selection? Everyone today was shite when faced with the speed of the ABs, as we were when confronted by the pace of Japanese ball. We've reached the point where we are now getting blown away by teams which offer either pace or power, and yet we are still loathe to take any risks.

Our identity has become slow, ponderous, predictable and risk averse. Mike Catt is a decent coach according to lads I know who have been coached by him, and he is certainly a great guy to have a beer with, but is he going to bring the type of innovation we need?

Everything about Ireland's game was getting back to structure..and more structure, as quickly as possible. We have had ZERO transition or counter-attacking game, which is where teams like NZ make their coin. A few months ago James Lowe remarked on a podcast that he couldn't believe how the Leinster SCT sides played...i.e. so much structure, and more than Super Sides he has been involved with, so it's at every level of our game. Maybe Schmidt determined that was the only way Ireland would win given the player profile we had, but we haven't.. again...and when our structures break down, we have nothing else... no offloading game, no transition from kick return to sole blistering attack like NZ and Aus. We really need to add them to our game.

crouchy wrote:Not convinced Earls was fit at all this tournament. Henshaw definitely should have been sent home based on his outings, wasn’t match fit at all.

Earls, like a few others, is probably just too old.

Floppykid wrote:

crouchy wrote:Not convinced Earls was fit at all this tournament. Henshaw definitely should have been sent home based on his outings, wasn’t match fit at all.

Earls, like a few others, is probably just too old.

I can't get over how bad he is at passing a rugby ball.

Oh. I forgot about Mike Catt.

danthefan wrote:

Floppykid wrote:

crouchy wrote:Not convinced Earls was fit at all this tournament. Henshaw definitely should have been sent home based on his outings, wasn’t match fit at all.

Earls, like a few others, is probably just too old.

I can't get over how bad he is at passing a rugby ball.

In 2018 he had some really great passes if I remember right

Winnie wrote:

HighKingLeinster wrote:

Winnie wrote:

CM11 wrote:Back five of the pack are currently down for 61 tackles, 1 missed (POM!).

Nearly all the missed tackles in the backs. Stockdale leading the charge with 5.

Ulster tinted specs only go so far
Got to admit Stockdale is very very poor defensively
Its like watching a schoolboy
He doesnt know where he should be standing or who his man is
Going forward he can be devastating, but defensively he is a bit of a liability

He's the Irish Cuthbert

Harsh

His career has certainly stalled
I hope it hasnt peaked as he is a lethal finisher

Which makes the whole coaching set up so frustrating
We need a new man with new ideas to come in

Well we're getting the mastermind of today's defence to run the whole show for the next while, so let's get used to that idea.

Again, this is the tournament that really matters.
Ireland get slapped around again.

The lads played today like they were still sore from playing Samoa.
If we had beaten Japan we’d have rotated our team against Samoa (like contenders do) and played SA who we probably had planned for.

Our q/f was lost in the Japan match.

Floppykid wrote:

danthefan wrote:

Floppykid wrote:

crouchy wrote:Not convinced Earls was fit at all this tournament. Henshaw definitely should have been sent home based on his outings, wasn’t match fit at all.

Earls, like a few others, is probably just too old.

I can't get over how bad he is at passing a rugby ball.

In 2018 he had some really great passes if I remember right

When Earls was at the peak of his great form a year or so ago, I remember reading an interview with him saying how he had learned to play for the love of the game a bit more, to relax and enjoy his rugby rather than putting the relentless pressure on himself that he'd been guilty of earlier in his career.

Every time I've seen him this year he's looked like he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders. He feels like he's thrown out what has been working for him mentally, and gone back to the pressure he was putting himself under before and that he clearly doesn't deal with well.

Jim Lahey wrote:

danthefan wrote:

Brian9848 wrote:Hansen also deserves a ton of credit. He had the balls to drop a 100 Test TH Owen Franks, then Reiko Ioane, arguably the best winger of 2018, and then move the best 10 in the game to full back and put complete newbies on the wing. Reece has only had one incomplete season of Super rugby.

All while we wring our hands about experience and he's the guy for the big game and you can't start Larmour and whatever else.

I called for Balcony Bob over Larmour before the game and got that one completely wrong, based on Bob being good in the air and being capable of producing a big performance. He did neither today (he was far from being the reason why we lost tbf) but Larmour looked like he might actually create something when he came on.

If we had a game next week, with Larmour and Conway to come into the back 3, Kearney's not the one who'd be worried.

Flametop wrote:The lads played today like they were still sore from playing Samoa.
If we had beaten Japan we’d have rotated our team against Samoa (like contenders do) and played SA who we probably had planned for.

Our q/f was lost in the Japan match.

Nah, they're pro player who've been given armchair rides to the world cup. Fatigue isn't an excuse.

Not even like we even lose quarter-finals narrowly. We generally get completely stuffed in them. Depressing.

camroc1 wrote:

Floppykid wrote:

camroc1 wrote:We peaked a year too early.

NZ were excellent and we couldn't live with them.

Hopefully Farrell is allowed build a new team now, in his own likeness.

It was his defence that got, I'm presuming based on the score, eviscerated out there.
I hope he gets an attack coach at least.

The team just didn't fire against a Kiwi team that did from the first minute.

It's difficult to blame either defence or attack or individual players. We just didn't show up.

And I am prepared to give Farrell the benefit of the doubt until we see what HIS team does.

This is the biggest game any of those players ever played. So have to think that they were so emotionally and physically primed, only to be completely outplayed and couldn't live with the pace of the game and adjust to what NZ was throwing at them. So I'd say our fire was there; it was just blown away. NZ attacked and dominated us on both sides of the ball because they read too easily what we were trying to do. At every ruck, Smith was looking up and making a snap decision which side to go based up the what he was seeing (and who was calling for the ball).. blind, open, narrow, wide...nothing too crazy or complicated. Just good rugby players armed with tactics dreamed up by their coaches and then making decisions on the fly .

IBWT wrote:Not even like we even lose quarter-finals narrowly. We generally get completely stuffed in them. Depressing.

I was there in Lansdowne in '91, when Gordon Hamilton scored.



It's really sad that that's still our best QF performance, because that was an actual dogshit Ireland team, some genuinely not-international-quality players, coached by bluffers. Any other Ireland RWC side since would put 40 on them (even the Lens team). But they were within 2 minutes of putting out the eventual champions.

They put too much pressure on themselves. Have been thinking about this for 11 months when it looks like they should have ignored it looming and just got on with playing.

Anyway, Farrell will be his own man. He might be part of the current group but I think he'll jettison Sexton quick enough and build towards his own style. Do we have the rest of his coaching team announced?

nardol wrote:Stockdale was fairly poor in my book. Taking a ball out for NZ lineout, penalty for deliberate knock on being the highlights.

None of the backs played well especially not Murray but it’s been a poor season plus for Stockdale. Needs to play his way back into the team next year, not be picked for what he did in 2018.

nardol wrote:Stockdale was fairly poor in my book. Taking a ball out for NZ lineout, penalty for deliberate knock on being the highlights.

You can't give him to too much shit for the deliberate knock on, on another day he would have caught that and we'd have had a 7 point lead. You have to take some risks

Bowens wrote:

nardol wrote:Stockdale was fairly poor in my book. Taking a ball out for NZ lineout, penalty for deliberate knock on being the highlights.

None of the backs played well especially not Murray but it’s been a poor season plus for Stockdale. Needs to play his way back into the team next year, not be picked for what he did in 2018.

Stockdale should be dropped to give him a boot up the arse, and we can stick a fork in Kearney now, he's done.

CM11 wrote:They put too much pressure on themselves. Have been thinking about this for 11 months when it looks like they should have ignored it looming and just got on with playing.

Anyway, Farrell will be his own man. He might be part of the current group but I think he'll jettison Sexton quick enough and build towards his own style. Do we have the rest of his coaching team announced?

Yeah, but every team has been thinking about it for 11 months or more; it's really no excuse or explanation..

Thought it was Easterby, Murphy remaining with Catt being added as his assistant. He might want to think about handing the defense portfolio off after today.

For shits and giggles.
Healy
Maybe a year or two year too soon for Kelleher
Furlong
AN Other
Ryan
Ruddock
Leavy
Deegan
Marmion
AN Other (go with Carbery if he isn't sicknoted)
AN Other
AN Other
Ringrose
Conway (though he'll be aging as a wing unfortunately for him)
Larmour.

de_Selby wrote:

nardol wrote:Stockdale was fairly poor in my book. Taking a ball out for NZ lineout, penalty for deliberate knock on being the highlights.

You can't give him to too much shit for the deliberate knock on, on another day he would have caught that and we'd have had a 7 point lead. You have to take some risks

He wasn't that close to the intercept. Think he decided early he was going for it so had to follow through but he was never gathering it.

The taking the ball out summed the whole day up. Just no awareness of the surroundings. It wasn't even like he stepped back into touch after catching it.

Brian9848 wrote:

CM11 wrote:They put too much pressure on themselves. Have been thinking about this for 11 months when it looks like they should have ignored it looming and just got on with playing.

Anyway, Farrell will be his own man. He might be part of the current group but I think he'll jettison Sexton quick enough and build towards his own style. Do we have the rest of his coaching team announced?

Yeah, but every team has been thinking about it for 11 months or more; it's really no excuse or explanation..

Thought it was Easterby, Murphy remaining with Catt being added as his assistant. He might want to think about handing the defense portfolio off after today.

My point is that I think they shut up shop in terms of team/squad development and thought all they had to do was put a bow on 2018 and count down to October 2019. The main contenders have all changed stuff this year and improved on 2018.

IBWT wrote:Not even like we even lose quarter-finals narrowly. We generally get completely stuffed in them. Depressing.

Yeah, I'd forgotten than even in 2003, France ran away with it from the start so the game was basically over by half time.

Floppykid wrote:For shits and giggles.
Healy
Maybe a or two year too soon for Kelleher
Furlong
AN Other
Ryan
Ruddock
Leavy
Deegan
Marmion
AN Other (go with Carbery if he isn't sicknoted)
AN Other
AN Other
Ringrose
Conway (though he'll be aging as a wing unfortunately for him)
Larmour.

If Carbery was still at Leinster and playing FB I'd love to see him there with Larmour on the wing. Conway on the other wing while we wait for Stockdale to recover form. Carty and eventually Harry Byrne at FH. Marmion SH. Centres are a bit of a problem to figure out balance.

CM11 wrote:

Brian9848 wrote:

CM11 wrote:They put too much pressure on themselves. Have been thinking about this for 11 months when it looks like they should have ignored it looming and just got on with playing.

Anyway, Farrell will be his own man. He might be part of the current group but I think he'll jettison Sexton quick enough and build towards his own style. Do we have the rest of his coaching team announced?

Yeah, but every team has been thinking about it for 11 months or more; it's really no excuse or explanation..

Thought it was Easterby, Murphy remaining with Catt being added as his assistant. He might want to think about handing the defense portfolio off after today.

My point is that I think they shut up shop in terms of team/squad development and thought all they had to do was put a bow on 2018 and count down to October 2019. The main contenders have all changed stuff this year and improved on 2018.

Dropping Toner showed that they were okay to make some decisions.
But they were living too much on hope that the likes of Keet, Carbery, Henshaw and Sexton would recover from injuries and be up to their previous form straightaway.

And the biggest downfall has been the reliance and emphasis on Sexton; we're back to the second playmaker debate, and we may not have the players to do this (again, noting Carbery's fitness too) but even having the likes of Ringrose and Larmour trying some more options would add a bit more interest to our attack.

Gutted for Schmidt. He's had a tough couple of months.

We can talk all we like about the backs, and their errors sure didn't help, but we got the shit kicked out of us up front and that's the reason we lost so badly. Our timing was off and our kicking poor because we rarely had comfortable control of the ball.