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Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:42 pm
by HighKingLeinster
Flametop wrote:JDV was decent. Decent gas before Munster ruined him.
Not the first player for it to happen to down there TBF.
Yeah sure look how they mangled Christian Cullen.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:45 pm
by Floppykid
HighKingLeinster wrote:
Flametop wrote:JDV was decent. Decent gas before Munster ruined him.
Not the first player for it to happen to down there TBF.
Yeah sure look how they mangled Christian Cullen.
Carbery.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:44 pm
by DOB
HighKingLeinster wrote:
Flametop wrote:JDV was decent. Decent gas before Munster ruined him.
Not the first player for it to happen to down there TBF.
Yeah sure look how they mangled Christian Cullen.
Cullen was fantastic for Munster. Chronic lack of support around him.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:46 pm
by camroc1
DOB wrote:
HighKingLeinster wrote:
Flametop wrote:JDV was decent. Decent gas before Munster ruined him.
Not the first player for it to happen to down there TBF.
Yeah sure look how they mangled Christian Cullen.
Cullen was fantastic for Munster. Chronic lack of support around him.
Agree. He'd run lines his team mates didn't know existed.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:47 pm
by CM11
camroc1 wrote:
DOB wrote:
HighKingLeinster wrote:
Flametop wrote:JDV was decent. Decent gas before Munster ruined him.
Not the first player for it to happen to down there TBF.
Yeah sure look how they mangled Christian Cullen.
Cullen was fantastic for Munster. Chronic lack of support around him.
Agree. He'd run lines his team mates didn't know existed.
That was always my excuse for Fitz too. :|

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:27 am
by Flametop
CM11 wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
DOB wrote:
HighKingLeinster wrote:
Flametop wrote:JDV was decent. Decent gas before Munster ruined him.
Not the first player for it to happen to down there TBF.
Yeah sure look how they mangled Christian Cullen.
Cullen was fantastic for Munster. Chronic lack of support around him.
Agree. He'd run lines his team mates didn't know existed.
That was always my excuse for Fitz too. :|
Yep. Fitz’s problem was that the ball carrier was always behind him.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:50 am
by DOB
Flametop wrote:
CM11 wrote:
camroc1 wrote: Agree. He'd run lines his team mates didn't know existed.
That was always my excuse for Fitz too. :|
Yep. Fitz’s problem was that the ball carrier was always behind him.
That one he "scored" against Wales in the Ballboy match was perfect timing, but DOC couldn't transfer the ball quick enough. By the "hands-going-backwards" laws it would've been a try.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:02 am
by overthehillprop
Flametop wrote:JDV was decent. Decent gas before Munster ruined him.
Not the first player for it to happen to down there TBF.
The problem for JDV was McGahan decided it was a good idea to put one of the worlds best inside centres at 13 outside a stepping centre who's thought process meant passing was the last thing he thought about. When JDV was played at 12 he was actually decent and he ended up being Munsters top try scorer that season if i remember correctly.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 am
by Conspicuous
DOB wrote:
HighKingLeinster wrote:
Flametop wrote:JDV was decent. Decent gas before Munster ruined him.
Not the first player for it to happen to down there TBF.
Yeah sure look how they mangled Christian Cullen.
Cullen was fantastic for Munster. Chronic lack of support around him.
Nah he was past his best and riddled with injuries. He delivered in the Wasps HEC sf though

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:25 am
by Munster-fogs
Floppykid wrote:
HighKingLeinster wrote:
Flametop wrote:JDV was decent. Decent gas before Munster ruined him.
Not the first player for it to happen to down there TBF.
Yeah sure look how they mangled Christian Cullen.
Carbery.
You misspelled Schmidt.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:17 pm
by hermie
Floppykid wrote:
Flametop wrote:Shout out to Giteau also.
Fab 12 in a world of fatties.
Don't really see centres the size of Gits and Darcy these days, just good athletes who can meathead away.
Crotty.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:21 pm
by danthefan
Well you've Owen Farrell at 12 for England.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:21 pm
by Ulsters Red Hand
De Allende was very good at the WC, why has no one mentioned him?

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:22 pm
by danthefan
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:De Allende was very good at the WC, why has no one mentioned him?
Well he is very good but he's a bit of a meathead as well.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:28 pm
by Ulsters Red Hand
danthefan wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:De Allende was very good at the WC, why has no one mentioned him?
Well he is very good but he's a bit of a meathead as well.
Fair, thought this was just chat on the best 12s about

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:30 pm
by Nolanator
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
danthefan wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:De Allende was very good at the WC, why has no one mentioned him?
Well he is very good but he's a bit of a meathead as well.
Fair, thought this was just chat on the best 12s about
He's definitely not a complete 12, in the sense that guys in the recent past were.
Definitely fits into the pure athlete who can play the position description. Obviously he's very good and not shit at the non-meathead stuff, but his primary attribute is his physical presence.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:32 pm
by Ulsters Red Hand
Nolanator wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
danthefan wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:De Allende was very good at the WC, why has no one mentioned him?
Well he is very good but he's a bit of a meathead as well.
Fair, thought this was just chat on the best 12s about
He's definitely not a complete 12, in the sense that guys in the recent past were.
Definitely fits into the pure athlete who can play the position description. Obviously he's very good and not shit at the non-meathead stuff, but his primary attribute is his physical presence.
Totally agree with this. Think he showed a lot of different sides to his game than you'd expect at the WC, which you've said.
Dare I say it but if Olding was still around he would be the best proper 12, in the traditional sense, we would have.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:21 pm
by Floppykid
I'd describe De Allende as more a "centre" than a pure 12.
He's a better, less meathead version of Kriel.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:16 pm
by DOB
Saw some England in the 00’s videos last night, and it’s worth remembering how good Greenwood was. Great angles, taking the ball right into the defensive line, ball always out looking to pass.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:18 pm
by anonymous_joe
DOB wrote:Saw some England in the 00’s videos last night, and it’s worth remembering how good Greenwood was. Great angles, taking the ball right into the defensive line, ball always out looking to pass.
His try-scoring ratio is insane.

All Black wingers are meant to score that many tries, not a centre.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:08 pm
by Nolanator
DOB wrote:Saw some England in the 00’s videos last night, and it’s worth remembering how good Greenwood was. Great angles, taking the ball right into the defensive line, ball always out looking to pass.
Night and day compared to now with the amount of space backs had to work with, though.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:33 pm
by redderneck
Flametop wrote:
CM11 wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
DOB wrote:
HighKingLeinster wrote: Yeah sure look how they mangled Christian Cullen.
Cullen was fantastic for Munster. Chronic lack of support around him.
Agree. He'd run lines his team mates didn't know existed.
That was always my excuse for Fitz too. :|
Yep. Fitz’s problem was that the ball carrier was always behind him.
I put it down to the over-exuberance of youth. But as he got older, realised that only stood up if you accepted he was a permanent man-child.

The alternative was that he always played on pitches that had a slope. And only overran the pass when he was running downhill. Damned gravity.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:50 pm
by Floppykid
Nolanator wrote:
DOB wrote:Saw some England in the 00’s videos last night, and it’s worth remembering how good Greenwood was. Great angles, taking the ball right into the defensive line, ball always out looking to pass.
Night and day compared to now with the amount of space backs had to work with, though.
I'm surprised Kolbe is as good as he is tbh.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:54 pm
by Floppykid
Greenwood is meant to be a bit of a prick, isn't he?

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:59 pm
by HighKingLeinster
Floppykid wrote:Greenwood is meant to be a bit of a prick, isn't he?
well he is English......

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:17 pm
by Ulsters Red Hand
Floppykid wrote:Greenwood is meant to be a bit of a prick, isn't he?
Yes.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:18 pm
by Ulsters Red Hand
Talking of English centres from way back who are supposedly pricks, this never fails to make me laugh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gpzFZadcQ

:lol: :lol:

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:24 pm
by CM11
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:Talking of English centres from way back who are supposedly pricks, this never fails to make me laugh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gpzFZadcQ

:lol: :lol:
Always a fun watch!

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:31 pm
by Floppykid
Beale actually, he's a brilliant 12 when his head isn't in his arse.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:17 pm
by boringperson12
Carling was quite a good 12, great boot on him. Shame he was a plum.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:55 pm
by Ulsters Red Hand
As expected Doak is in the Ulster academy along with Ben Carson and Reuben Crothers from Wallace

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:05 pm
by DOB
redderneck wrote:
Flametop wrote: Yep. Fitz’s problem was that the ball carrier was always behind him.
I put it down to the over-exuberance of youth. But as he got older, realised that only stood up if you accepted he was a permanent man-child.

The alternative was that he always played on pitches that had a slope. And only overran the pass when he was running downhill. Damned gravity.
I have to think a lot of this is confirmation bias based on the 2011 6N, when he was 23. And as I've said, a few of those wouldn't be called forward passes by the current interpretations (they were marginal at the time). He only had 1 more start (vScotland in 2015) against a tier 1 side in the 6N or RWC after that.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:09 pm
by Jim Lahey
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:As expected Doak is in the Ulster academy along with Ben Carson and Reuben Crothers from Wallace
Are any of these lads likely to captain the Lions?
Or play a competitive game for Ulster?

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:34 pm
by Bogbunny
Jim Lahey wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:As expected Doak is in the Ulster academy along with Ben Carson and Reuben Crothers from Wallace
Are any of these lads likely to captain the Lions?
Or play a competitive game for Ulster?
James McCormick Ulster U18 Captain and goal kicking hooker is the best shout.

Another Toon mini makes it ( coached his bro 8) )

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:22 am
by Ulsters Red Hand
Jim Lahey wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:As expected Doak is in the Ulster academy along with Ben Carson and Reuben Crothers from Wallace
Are any of these lads likely to captain the Lions?
Or play a competitive game for Ulster?
Ulster rate Doak very highly so wouldnt be surprised to see him capped within the next 18 months
Think Carson could surprise a few

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:22 am
by Ulsters Red Hand
Bogbunny wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:As expected Doak is in the Ulster academy along with Ben Carson and Reuben Crothers from Wallace
Are any of these lads likely to captain the Lions?
Or play a competitive game for Ulster?
James McCormick Ulster U18 Captain and goal kicking hooker is the best shout.

Another Toon mini makes it ( coached his bro 8) )
So a forward who wants to be a back
Just what Ulster need

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:33 am
by Willie Falloon
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:
Bogbunny wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
Ulsters Red Hand wrote:As expected Doak is in the Ulster academy along with Ben Carson and Reuben Crothers from Wallace
Are any of these lads likely to captain the Lions?
Or play a competitive game for Ulster?
James McCormick Ulster U18 Captain and goal kicking hooker is the best shout.

Another Toon mini makes it ( coached his bro 8) )
So a forward who wants to be a back
Just what Ulster need
Apparently Rory Best took the kicks for Portadown college, played flyhalf in Newcastle uni!!!!!

He captained the Lions mid-week test didn't he? :nod:

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:17 pm
by Uncle Fester
Floppykid wrote:Were Nonu and Money Bill some of the last "great" 12s?

Fofana looked like he could've maybe done more, but got injured too much and never really fulfilled his potential.

JOC, maybe could've been a great 12 if he wasn't a waster.
Jauzion.

Sonny bill was a luxury player in test rugby.

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:36 pm
by Floppykid
Uncle Fester wrote:
Floppykid wrote:Were Nonu and Money Bill some of the last "great" 12s?

Fofana looked like he could've maybe done more, but got injured too much and never really fulfilled his potential.

JOC, maybe could've been a great 12 if he wasn't a waster.
Jauzion.

Sonny bill was a luxury player in test rugby.
Well Nonu peaked and retired well after Jauzion, so that's why I said "last".
Fair point about Money Bill.

Beale or JOC seemed like they could've filled that void but never really did,

Re: The Official Irish Rugby Thread

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:05 pm
by Ulsters Red Hand
Floppykid wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
Floppykid wrote:Were Nonu and Money Bill some of the last "great" 12s?

Fofana looked like he could've maybe done more, but got injured too much and never really fulfilled his potential.

JOC, maybe could've been a great 12 if he wasn't a waster.
Jauzion.

Sonny bill was a luxury player in test rugby.
Well Nonu peaked and retired well after Jauzion, so that's why I said "last".
Fair point about Money Bill.

Beale or JOC seemed like they could've filled that void but never really did,
Beale had some glimpses of pure class but both him and JOC were both just utility backs for me, on the assumption JOC kept his early trajectory. Both could have just about managed to play every position in the back line.